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Author Topic: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points  (Read 487 times)

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Offline Newportnobby

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Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« on: May 16, 2018, 10:14:55 am »
I have reached the stage of no return with this electrickery malarkey (it's a black art, I tell you), and have to solder a wire to the frog wire underneath the Peco electrofrog points for polarity changing. This wire will then be connected to the 'F' section of my PM1s. Does anyone have any tips to make this easy or have advise as to what not to do please? Does anyone know of a vid on Youtube perhaps I could follow?

My attempts at soldering have been hugely sub-optimal so far and perfectly good points could be turned into molten blobs without advice from the 'collective' :help:

Offline bluedepot

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2018, 10:27:43 am »
I'm not sure if underneath or on the side of the v is better really. I've tried both ways.

i think we've all been there with melting the sleepers!

anyway a soldering expert will be along soon I should think to offer advice!

Tim


Online austinbob

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2018, 10:39:15 am »
I've soldered to the side of the V in the same way as you solder to the side of the track. Much easier to locate the wire through the baseboard as you can see what you're doing and it can be done after track laying.
Once all the points are laid, I drill a hole the size of the wire next to the track (or frog V). Clean the track with a fibre pen. I then solder the wire to the side of the track (not the side in contact with the wheels  :no:) poke the wire through the hole and pull it through from the underneath. I use a fairly low temperature solder and flux from DCC Supplies which reduces the risk of melting the sleepers
 :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

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Offline Takamine

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2018, 10:50:38 am »
Hi

Reading your post looks like points not installed yet? If thats the case, I gently lifted the frog link wire under the point and solder to that - very easy to do - it is spot tacked to the point and fairly robust. drill a slight indent in the board under the point to allow for the wire / solder joint and point to fit flush on the surface. I laid mine on scenics foam base so it allowed for the solder joint to be absorbed.

Otherwise the option is as above

BR and good luck
Chris


Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2018, 11:08:27 am »
I reckon @Takamine Chris's way would be best for me as I would be completely dangerous trying to solder points on the layout. Lord only knows what could happen! :worried:
If I had any confidence/ability it would be better as lifting each point to solder will be a PITA but I just don't want to risk it :no:
@austinbob
I don't solder to the side of the track either. I use pre soldered fishplates which I have no issues with (that's sent a few purists into a spin, no doubt :-X)

Back to the points, I have tried looking on YouTube but they all seem to be 'Orribly 'Oversize versions.

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2018, 01:01:52 pm »
To be honest, soldering to the frog wire really shouldn't be a problem if you're comfortable with soldering - but if you're not then perhaps you'd be better off practicing and learning how to solder neatly and efficiently first, on some scraps of wire and rail?  It really is a useful skill and not difficult once you've got the hang of it.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline kirky

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2018, 03:09:47 pm »
I dont use the frog wire to solder to the frog anymore. It can break off.
Instead I bare enough wire to solder under the rails just as near as I can get to the sleeper withoiut melting them. I solder to both rails for belt and braces purposes. The problem Ive found with getting to grips with soldering is that you have to be quick, and when you are learning you want to do it slowly naturally. That means get the iron hot, and loaded with a bit of solder. I use flux on the rail, dab the iron on to the flux and leave a small blob of solder, on each rail. With the wire freshly tinned, place bare wire on the now cool(ish) solder blobs and touch the iron on to the wire/solder. Leave the iron on for a second. Then lift off. Do the same on the next rail. One frog wire soldered directly to the rails.
I usually do all my soldering under a magnifyer and so this method only works if you can do this before the points are laid.
HTH

cheers
Kirky
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Offline bluedepot

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2018, 04:00:12 pm »
I would just follow what chris said

I should have made allowance for the solder bump / attached wire on the underside of the point as he mentions.  totally flat points is important to achieve good running.

Tim

Offline acook

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2018, 08:24:27 pm »
Use one of your pre-wired fishplates on one or both frog rails and insulated rail joiners further out.
May not work for crossovers.
Alan

Offline DCCDave

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2018, 08:32:35 pm »
I would just follow what chris said

I should have made allowance for the solder bump / attached wire on the underside of the point as he mentions.  totally flat points is important to achieve good running.

Tim

Very true Tim

I lay my track on cork and before I lay a point, but after soldering the wires on, I mark on the cork where the wire/solder bump will contact the cork. I drill a 4mm hole to pass the wire through. That is large enough that the board does not exert any sideways pressure on the wire if my hole is slightly out of alignment. Then I use a countersink bit to remove the cork around the hole so that I can lay the point flat.

After expeimenting with this a few times I then marked up some peco point templates, mounted on card, which I use as a drilling guide:



Cheers
Dave

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2018, 08:59:17 am »
i know what you mean about these being a bit tricky to solder, I've been started to do some recently. The way that worked for me was some good flux, tin the wire and the point on the track you want to attach it, then join the two tinned parts together, they should bond very quickly meaning less chance of melted sleepers.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2018, 09:39:19 am »
Use one of your pre-wired fishplates on one or both frog rails and insulated rail joiners further out.
May not work for crossovers.
Alan

Struck me as a genius idea at first but then at 04.00 this morning ( :doh:) I thought "Won't that put a buzz into the point motor where there shouldn't be one?"

Offline NinOz

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2018, 10:12:57 am »
After expeimenting with this a few times I then marked up some peco point templates, mounted on card, which I use as a drilling guide:



Three circles: one for actuating wire (blade end), two for the frog wires (underneath the frog).  Correct?
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

Offline Jerry Howlett

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 11:31:35 am »
I solder to a fish plate on one of the frog enda and then cut the rail on the adjoining track.

Some days its just not worth gnawing through the straps.

Offline dannyboy

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Re: Soldering to the live frog wire underneath Peco points
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2018, 12:03:06 pm »
I have read this thread from the start, inwardly digested and fully assimilated all the information provided and all I can say is - thank goodness for Kato Unitrack!  ;) ;D
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.

 

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