!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?  (Read 816 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 3843
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« on: May 15, 2018, 01:38:26 pm »
I've often noticed Modellbahn Union's "silver bullet" china clay tankers on their site, here. They bear a stunning resemblance to Dapol's:

MU:


Dapol:


Now the MU ones claim to be 1:160, but say they have length over buffers of 98mm. Taking this photo from Hattons of the Dapol one:



Looks bloody close to 98mm, and if the 1:160 ones were 98mm the Dapol ones should be 106mm, which they're definitely not. Conversely if the 1:148 ones are 98mm then the 1:160 ones should be 91mm, which they may be, and the website is wrong :hmmm:

The MU ones say they come with 'optional knuckle couplers' just like the Dapol ones. They do do some liveries which Dapol never have, which is curious. But most are the same, and obviously the weathering, based on a Mercig master, looks as good as identical.

Are they the same wagon, and actually a 1:148 model? Tempted to supplement my rake of Dapol ones, although they're a little expensive they're still coming out about the same as the Dapol ones sell for here. With the advantage they're available now!


Offline Steven B

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 12107
  • 2mm Association Number: 4196
  • Posts: 495
  • Country: gb
    • NGS Yorkshire Area Group
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2018, 01:52:58 pm »
Yes they're the same wagon.

Dapol have produced a number of limited editions for Modellbahn Union including A4s and Class 58 (ACTS)

Steven B.

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 3843
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2018, 02:06:38 pm »
Awesome, ta. Was aware of the A4 etc, but those are so obviously a British prototype I wasn't totally sure about the wagons. I imagine they'd be rather overscale on a continental layout, particularly as they're marketed as 1:160, and clearly aren't.

Still, happy days. A source of weathered silver bullets in Nacco and ECC livery.

Offline ntpntpntp

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2233
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2018, 04:32:43 pm »
... I imagine they'd be rather overscale on a continental layout, particularly as they're marketed as 1:160, and clearly aren't.

True but on the other hand they'll be models of stock built to British loading gauge so shouldn't look too tall among larger loading gauge continental wagons.  Would only really show up where you have british and continental scale models of the same wagon next to each other
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 04:34:01 pm by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "KŲnigshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 3843
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2018, 05:00:15 pm »
True, which was exactly what I was keen to avoid given I'd be mixing them among a rake.

It's all pretty moot anyway, not sure I'm sufficiently bothered yet to pay £30 each.

Offline Western Exile

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23198
  • Posts: 193
  • Country: de
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2018, 02:21:23 pm »
Some time ago I asked on here whether anyone had taken a Dapol silver bullet apart as I was interested in doing so to paint the barrel blue, as some of the prototype were this colour. Looks like I donít need to now as the retailer linked in the first post is now offering them for sale in this livery, weathered and pristine versions.

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 3843
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2018, 02:27:11 pm »
Yep, I saw that, including NACCO branded weathered ones. I suspect I'll succumb to a few to replace the ERMEWA ones I've got, even at £32 a pop.

Offline Western Exile

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23198
  • Posts: 193
  • Country: de
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2018, 02:36:18 pm »
When I spotted these on sale I thought I would post a question on here as I too noticed that they were shown as 1:160 but were exactly the same length as my Dapol ones. I did a quick search to see if anyone had asked the question already and lo and behold, you had. Thanks!

Offline woodbury22uk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23382
  • Posts: 1701
  • Country: gb
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2018, 02:45:51 pm »
This a typical continental clay slurry wagon, which is much shorter than a British gauge wagon, with a similar payload. At 1/160 scale it would be about 80mm over buffers. Does not seem to bother the mainland European modellers who keep snapping up the overlength Dapol/Modellbahn Union ones.

http://www.atir-rail.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/craie45.pdf


There are some depressed centre tanks too which are 12.5 metres over buffers so less than 80mm in 1/160:-

http://www.photos-ferroviaires.fr/index.php?/category/75

Mike

Over-user of brackets and quotation marks.

Wondering how many pedants can dance of the head of a pin.


Membre AFAN 0196

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 3843
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2018, 02:56:38 pm »
Well AFAIK the Silver Bullets as modelled by Dapol run through the Channel Tunnel and through France (at least), so they're not unprototypical for continental use, but would obviously be significantly over scale.

Offline Buzzard

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 518
  • Country: england
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2018, 04:47:11 pm »
Some time ago I asked on here whether anyone had taken a Dapol silver bullet apart as I was interested in doing so to paint the barrel blue, as some of the prototype were this colour. Looks like I donít need to now as the retailer linked in the first post is now offering them for sale in this livery, weathered and pristine versions.

ECC had 5 in their house colour but those wagons were 14.1m long whereas the NACCO wagons, the ones we've traditionally called silver bullets, were 13.2m.

Don't know if the shorter ones ever got painted blue so perhaps some more research is called for i.e. don't buy too many blue ones.

Offline Western Exile

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23198
  • Posts: 193
  • Country: de
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2018, 06:25:34 pm »
Some time ago I asked on here whether anyone had taken a Dapol silver bullet apart as I was interested in doing so to paint the barrel blue, as some of the prototype were this colour. Looks like I donít need to now as the retailer linked in the first post is now offering them for sale in this livery, weathered and pristine versions.

ECC had 5 in their house colour but those wagons were 14.1m long whereas the NACCO wagons, the ones we've traditionally called silver bullets, were 13.2m.

Don't know if the shorter ones ever got painted blue so perhaps some more research is called for i.e. don't buy too many blue ones.

Too late! Iíve already ordered three blue ones and three Caledonian Paper ones.  I didnít know that the blue ones were a different build to the silver ones. However, on the grounds that I didnít notice a 90cm difference on the real thing, I think I can overlook a 6mm discrepancy on the model.  ;)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 06:27:51 pm by Western Exile »

Offline Western Exile

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23198
  • Posts: 193
  • Country: de
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2018, 12:41:28 pm »
All six arrived today and they are superb! Apart from the Modellbahn Union cardboard sleeve and sticker on the end of the box, the packaging is all Dapol and identical to their own Silver Bullets. According to the sticker, each type is a limited run of 200. It seems strange that Dapol havenít offered them in the UK as their own product given their widespread use.

Offline RailGooner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 17356
  • Posts: 1761
  • Country: gb
    • Ebay
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2018, 01:02:24 pm »
..
 I imagine they'd be rather overscale on a continental layout, particularly as they're marketed as 1:160, and clearly aren't.
...


Apologies njee20 for the ever so slight topic drift, but I think this still falls under 'Modellbahn Union Wagons' and is relevant to this discussion particularly regarding scale.

I have a dozen Modellbahn Union (MU) Shimms Tarpaulin Wagons, all manufactured by Dapol. I bought them intending to re-livery them as 'GE Capital Rail Services'. However, I've never been satisfied with how they look in a mixed train of Dapol KIA Telescoping Steel Carriers and Bachmann/Farish BRA Bogie Steel Carriers. The MU Shimms simply look too large.

I've recently purchased a pack of Fleischmann Shimms Tarpaulin Wagons, which look much better in a mixed train.


Comparing the dimensions of the Modellbahn Union/Fleischmann models shows the most significant difference is in the width:
                                      MU / Fleischmann
Length over buffers  75.4mm / 75.0mm
Height from rail-top  27.2mm / 27.4mm
Width                      20.4mm / 19.6mm




So probably safe to say that the MU Shimms is 1:160 scale. The MU model has exquisite detail, but I'll be flogging them all now and replacing with Fleischmann.

Oh, and the prototype has two roof profiles which both have the same max height.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 10:42:42 pm by RailGooner »
Per Ardua ad Astra | Mens Agitat Molem | Victoria Concordia Crescit

I'm supporting Project Railway Honour

Offline njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 3843
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Modellbahn Union Wagons - are they just Dapol?
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2018, 01:04:33 pm »
So that's interesting, as it's actually the reverse - you think the smaller 1:160 wagons better match the UK 1:148 ones!

 

Please Support Us!
October Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Oct 31
Total Receipts: £40.00
Below Goal: £15.00
Site Currency: GBP
73% 
October Donations


Advertise Here
anything