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Author Topic: DJ Models APT crowdfunding campaign  (Read 10133 times)

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Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #90 on: March 27, 2018, 08:18:36 pm »
I am fairly certain that this is priced on a sales volume in the low hundreds, so the tooling cost is thickly spread. The 00 gauge one is getting near to its tooling target, and the N gauge one is still way off. I would be astounded if there were even 250 people likely to stump up for these at the listed prices but be warned that comparing with other planned items might be a nasty shock. The minor retool of the Class 350 to a Class 450 is estimated by Hattons at around £240 for 4 cars. So an RRP around £280. So RRP for 12 cars would be £840, plus say £60 for two more trailer cars, making it £900 for 14 cars. The 14 car APT-P with two power cars is listed at £899.95. Makes you think.
Mike

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Offline DJM Dave

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #91 on: March 27, 2018, 08:36:37 pm »
Someone remind me how much the RRP on the re re-run with minor retooling OO gauge ‘Western Region’ Pullman is again?

For a 6 car unit, which has had its tooling amortised considerably in at least 3 runs in blue.

Please don’t compare one model in N with another as the numbers of units made and a manufacturer going some way to underwrite the price, doesn’t make for a fair comparison that will hold water.

Simply put, there will never be 1000 APT-P’s sold, or 500 or even 200 in N gauge.

So the price must reflect an item which has to pay for itself as the basic minimum requirement.

If the N gauge one doesn’t cover 200 models then so be it, but It won’t be for the want of trying despite the nay sayers.

As for looking at exchange rates and tax/wage rises in China and thinking they should affect prices here so much, think again.
If something goes up 20% in China, that will be A greater figure once everyone down the food chain raises their prices to keep their margin percentage.

It will change, you and I know it cannot go on, but I would hope that at the very minimum, the UK buying public will become accustomed to paying the ‘going rate’ for their models rather than want everything on the cheap (guilty as charged m’lud, In the past).

People in HK are already looking further afield for production, with India, Taiwan, South Korea, Thailand and even the Philippines being explored for manufacturing opportunities.

However I see a glimmer of hope on the UK front in this respect, so who knows what might happen in the next few years.

Dave

N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

Offline acko22

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #92 on: March 27, 2018, 08:52:22 pm »
Dave,

thank you for the prompt reply, your answers go a long way to answering questions I have. From what I understand then the pricing set out is aimed towards the bare minimum run (by your numbers that been around 200), which makes the pricing understandable.

Offline nobby

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #93 on: March 27, 2018, 08:55:05 pm »
i think i would want a lot more details on the specs before i commit and then i am still unsure because whats the added cost for the dcc sound ie because of the design of the train is the power cars going to be in the middle in which case do you need a sound chip and speaker in the head car because you dont want the horn sounding 7 cars back, so is this train going to need 4 sound chips  2x power car for sound 2 x head car for lights and sound so that adds another possible £400 quid to the total.
so i am looking at £1300 for 1 train or am i over thinking this because at this price level i would like to know a lot more now if i am honest before i decide.


Offline Railbank

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #94 on: March 27, 2018, 09:06:43 pm »
May be the proposed APT-P is on the money for n gauge models being developed now, but the broad opinion is that n gauge is a very much smaller market to OO, subsequently the pool that can afford these high end prices is also considerably smaller and this is why I also identified in an earlier post that I don't see the APT-P happening any time soon unfortunately.

The Farish retooling of the 350 is a brave step by them given that the original run were heavily discounted and took a considerable time to shift, but presumably they have worked on their figures and market research and believe they can turn a profit on a 450 version. Ditto the 6 car Pullman at the original price so let's see if they manage to shift them at the revised price. Dapol's 68's are selling well but have not yet sold out quickly like the OO versions did.

Variety is also a major factor against sign ups like APT-P, there is just too much choice for current and potential models that require discretionary modelling spend to be budgeted for and its not only across the various manufacturers, but each manufacturer in turn appears to have a development/crowdfunder list as long as your arm.

Like Acko the incessant delays and false promises are starting to grind, yes I have waited 3 years for the Pendolino but at least they kept me reasonably informed of the stages in development/manufacture and the price did not increase which kept me on board.

One crowdfunded project I am paid into is under serious consideration of cancellation following the numerous statements made as to milestones and deadlines going to be achieved and then nothing - no updates - no acknowledgements - just a total blank. This is why I have decided not to sign up to anymore projects with that manufacturer. 

In summary given that the n gauge market is small, the demographics, financial strength and interests of n gauge modellers are like general society varied I would suggest that niche products like APT-P can ill afford to alienate their potential clientele hence why it appears to be struggling to gain momentum.

Offline nobby

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #95 on: March 27, 2018, 09:28:12 pm »
i always felt that the 350 farish made, should also have been done as a 450 at the same time , as only have to have 1 london midland unit , because up till this year you couldn't even run a wcml railway because the main emu was missing and have the corridor connection as a add on piece so they could have made the class 360 without whole new bodies. the cep unit as much as this was very nice model it was a strange choice hampered by the fact that 1 , 7 years after its release the 2 ebp to go along side to is still missing 2, needs a complete retool to model 1982 onwards , perhaps a better choice would have been cig unit,

Online njee20

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #96 on: March 27, 2018, 09:53:06 pm »
The 450 suffers just as badly as the 350 did though - nothing to go with it; no 444, 445, an ageing 159 not available in the right livery currently.

I definitely think that’s bold, as said given how the 350s are heavily discounted.

We digress. I remain excited about the APT. At half the price I’d have bought one, ironically I wonder if twice as many people would’ve followed suit. Would that have been more viable?! I hope for those who have put their money down (or a pledge to) that they are rewarded with a fine model.

Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #97 on: March 27, 2018, 10:09:28 pm »

Simply put, there will never be 1000 APT-P’s sold, or 500 or even 200 in N gauge.

So the price must reflect an item which has to pay for itself as the basic minimum requirement.

If the N gauge one doesn’t cover 200 models then so be it, but It won’t be for the want of trying despite the nay sayers.


Dave

Thanks for the insight Dave. I commend Durham Trains of Stanley and DJModels for the APT-P initiative, and I hope that it will come to fruition. If it does, then owners will have a train which will truly justify the description “rare”.
Mike

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Offline Karhedron

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #98 on: March 27, 2018, 10:17:27 pm »
The 450 suffers just as badly as the 350 did though - nothing to go with it; no 444, 445, an ageing 159 not available in the right livery currently.

West of Basingstoke the situation improves as the 450s run alongside Voyagers, and Turbostars on passenger turns as well as 66s, 67s and 70s on freight. Plus that stretch of line is popular with steam specials if you want to add a bit of variety.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Online njee20

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #99 on: March 27, 2018, 10:24:03 pm »
Only really on the stretch between Basingstoke and Southampton, and the same is true of the WCML. Indeed you see far more WCML layouts than SWML I’d say. St Denys aside.

Offline amsie

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #100 on: March 28, 2018, 04:41:19 pm »
The 450 suffers just as badly as the 350 did though - nothing to go with it; no 444, 445, an ageing 159 not available in the right livery currently.

I definitely think that’s bold, as said given how the 350s are heavily discounted.

We digress. I remain excited about the APT. At half the price I’d have bought one, ironically I wonder if twice as many people would’ve followed suit. Would that have been more viable?! I hope for those who have put their money down (or a pledge to) that they are rewarded with a fine model.

I personally think the whole of railway modelling suffers from this problem.  An EPB with no refurbished CEP, an absolute distinct lack of models for London modellers, all I ever see is the same old tired locos rerun and a few DMU units.  You could also say the same about the Chiltern 68, no rolling stock to go with it.  It's been the bane of my modelling for years hence why I've had to build numerous kits, or attempt to build my own in N gauge.  I understand my particular interest would probably be not profitable for any RTR manufacturer and by all accounts the 350's haven't made money hence they are sold off at low prices? 


Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #101 on: March 28, 2018, 05:12:34 pm »
The 450 suffers just as badly as the 350 did though - nothing to go with it; no 444, 445, an ageing 159 not available in the right livery currently.

I definitely think that’s bold, as said given how the 350s are heavily discounted.

We digress. I remain excited about the APT. At half the price I’d have bought one, ironically I wonder if twice as many people would’ve followed suit. Would that have been more viable?! I hope for those who have put their money down (or a pledge to) that they are rewarded with a fine model.


You could also say the same about the Chiltern 68, no rolling stock to go with it.  It's been the bane of my modelling for years hence why I've had to build numerous kits, or attempt to build my own in N gauge.

I fully expect there to be Chiltern Mainline Mk3s in 2019, based on their unmodified Mk3 commuter set, and also suitable for the Class 67 era.
Mike

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Wondering how many pedants can dance of the head of a pin.


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Offline amsie

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #102 on: March 28, 2018, 05:54:27 pm »
I fully expect there to be Chiltern Mainline Mk3s in 2019, based on their unmodified Mk3 commuter set, and also suitable for the Class 67 era.

Your probably right in N gauge, in OO it's a different story hence my switch back although even if there was in N gauge there's a lack of 165's 168's etc etc ;-)

Online njee20

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #103 on: April 12, 2018, 11:54:40 am »
Apparently fewer than 100 orders thus far. I think I'm surprised it's not more popular.  But maybe I'm not given the price.

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Re: Durham Trains of Stanley APT crowdfunding campaign
« Reply #104 on: April 12, 2018, 12:36:52 pm »
Apparently fewer than 100 orders thus far. I think I'm surprised it's not more popular.  But maybe I'm not given the price.

To my mind, it's a bit of a 'niche' purchase. Compared to any other loco/dmu/emu/specialist rake there is probably a quite reduced number of people that would want one. The anticipated cost then reduces the number again.

Just my thoughts. That said, for those that DO want one, I really hope it succeeds.

Good luck.

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