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Author Topic: East Midlands Coal  (Read 803 times)

Shropshire Lad, EastMidsCoal and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online Buzzard

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #45 on: Yesterday at 11:36:01 am »
But HAAs are fitted

Agreed

Certainly wasn't the norm

As Derby was outside of my usual area I cannot say if it was or was not normal so perhaps a one-off?  Don't know but I thought I'd mention it so the OP could factor it into his calculations, you know run something different....

What I do know is that I saw the train twice and the second time the formation was reversed so I suspect it took a trip round the loop at Ratcliffe Power Station.


Offline njee20

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 11:39:20 am »
I meant more generally for MGR trains, rather than in Derby specifically.

A very quick Google suggests it was more common on certain routes with unmanned crossings - purely so the guard had somewhere to go after operating a crossing, referenced here.

Online EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 11:46:15 am »

When calculating total train lengths I suggest you also measure a brake van because they were used on some MGR services through Derby in the 80s.  I saw one such service at Derby in 1982 and I've got a photo somewhere but here's a link to what paint scheme the van was in

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brbrakediag507/h2737ef3d#h2737ef3d

Thanks Buzzard,
Yes good point, I was planning on having one set with 'topped and tailed' brake vans for the Denby run with a pair of Class 20s, so yes need to take that into considerations.

But HAAs are fitted, so no reason to have a brake van? Certainly wasn't the norm, although I'm sure there were occurences.

Thats true, but there was at least one set that had brake vans on each end for working to Denby Disposal Point.  The vans were not used in their traditional capacity for braking, and indeed were air-braked anyway, but were used to carry the shunter because of the number of Train Man Operated (TMO) crossings on the branch.  On some branches the shunter had a small car or BR van to drive between each crossing, but the Denby branch used brake vans as accommodation.  On arrival at a crossing, the secondman would close the gates to road traffic and get back on board, the train then passed through, and the shunter in the van at the back would reopen the gates to road traffic and return to the van. The train had two to avoid shunting movements both at Denby and the power station.  Think it ran to Willington Power Station - but the nature of coal traffic of course could mean a different power station each week (or even each day!) Interesting little addition!

Can anyone offer any advice on Class 08s?

Yes, BR blue has been in the past few catalogues but generally out of stock. You can, however, buy the blue chassis only, on places like eBay or the BRLines website. About £20-30.

Obviously this bumps up the price as you're buying twice.

Thanks - interesting thought, I wonder if a spare body (in BR blue or any other livery) could be acquired from Graham Farish, which could then be repainted if needed and swapped on a model.  Might have to investigate that one.

Richard

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 01:36:24 pm »
If you give the Technical department at Barwell a call they are generally most helpful.

Offline njee20

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 08:00:52 pm »
So 28 PCAs (which are 57mm versus 62mm for HAAs) with a 66 on the front is 1830mm by the time you include coupling slack and what not. So I would definitely go longer than 2100mm for HAAs plus a loco at each end; or go for 27 hoppers :)

Online EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #50 on: Yesterday at 09:10:59 pm »
So 28 PCAs (which are 57mm versus 62mm for HAAs) with a 66 on the front is 1830mm by the time you include coupling slack and what not. So I would definitely go longer than 2100mm for HAAs plus a loco at each end; or go for 27 hoppers :)

Thanks Nick, thats useful.  I am assuming those are with the standard N gauge coupling? Sorry, not sure what its called?  As a matter of interest, how long is your Class 66?  The Dapol 56 is 140mm.

I am thinking of putting the Dapol automated ones on the end vehicles, but staying with the normal coupling for inners ... possibly going to a permanently fixed chain of some sort, as they won't get split up once the rake is put together.

Richard

Offline njee20

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #51 on: Yesterday at 09:57:16 pm »
Rapido couplings, yep. Using Dapol easy-shunts or similar would shorten the rake.  I use 3D printed bars on some of my coaching rakes, work well.

66 is a bit longer than a 56 - 155mm or so.

Offline bluedepot

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 10:42:58 pm »
very nice track plan!   

richard - do you know where the last few rail served domestic coal yards were in the east midlands?  if yes do you know of any photos online at all?

on couplings - i tried some 3d printed bars but they didn't work very well. i think the 3d print was a bit over size or poor material or something.  i might give it a go again one day. i've seen a european manufacturer that makes coupling bars that kind of look like brake pipes connected up too.  can't remember the name.  some of the haa wagons don't have nem coupling pockets so keep that in mind when thinking about swapping couplings round.  you can get a dapol kit to fit nem coupling pockets to wagons though.


cheers


tim

Offline bluedepot

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 10:49:20 pm »
ps. thanks for sharing link to those pictures which were excellent

Online EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 11:19:23 pm »
very nice track plan!   

richard - do you know where the last few rail served domestic coal yards were in the east midlands?  if yes do you know of any photos online at all?

on couplings - i tried some 3d printed bars but they didn't work very well. i think the 3d print was a bit over size or poor material or something.  i might give it a go again one day. i've seen a european manufacturer that makes coupling bars that kind of look like brake pipes connected up too.  can't remember the name.  some of the haa wagons don't have nem coupling pockets so keep that in mind when thinking about swapping couplings round.  you can get a dapol kit to fit nem coupling pockets to wagons though.

tim


Hi Tim,
Thanks for the comments. I hadn't realised that some of the HAAs didnt have NEM pockets, but I am guessing they would be the earlier produced ones?  Still should be ok as most could be contained within the rakes if any of those are acquired.  Thank you for the note on the Dapol kit btw, thats useful.

Re: East Midlands Coal Yards
To be honest I am not sure.  I seem to recall there was one at Chesterfield, but when it closed I have no idea. Most of the domestic yards went in the 1980s with the move to air braked wagons.  There was a domestic coal network to the late 80s, early 90s that served places like Exeter and Yeovil with coal in HEA hoppers, but there were not that many terminals, and I cannot think of any in the East Mids.  I've just a had a quick look through my earliest Quail track map for the East Mids, but that was 1990.  I've got the 1986 one for the Eastern, but it stops at Chesterfield.  Nothing obvious showing on the East Mids Quail, but again by that time most would have gone or been removed.

In terms of pictures, you could try http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84597-coal-yards-in-the-1970s/?p=1417607 that thread which has some interesting shots of the yard at Gobowen.

Denby branch
Interestingly looking at the quail for the above, my eyes dropped on the Denby branch and the reason for the dual brake vans we were talking about earlier is clearly visible - there were seven TMO (Train Man Operated) level crossings on the 4.5 mile branch between leaving the main line at Little Eaton Junction and the end of the run-round loop headhunt at Denby!  A quick glance on Google Maps to see what remained, shows that the entire line has been taken up now, the junction at Little Eaton is just about invisible, and part of the branch looks to be a footpath.  :(  I must admit, I'd never realised it had been lifted!  :-[. The old disposal site looks to have been built on, so probably been gone 10 years or more....

Richard

Online EastMidsCoal

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 11:24:12 pm »
If you give the Technical department at Barwell a call they are generally most helpful.

Thanks Mick, I spoke with Dave Moorhouse who is going to investigate what actually remains in the stockroom for me.  If nothing else, a pick-up of any liveried body shell could be worth acquiring for a repaint into a Railfreight red-stripe example ... subject to completing the 56 first of course!


Rapido couplings, yep. Using Dapol easy-shunts or similar would shorten the rake.  I use 3D printed bars on some of my coaching rakes, work well.

66 is a bit longer than a 56 - 155mm or so.

Thanks, so we're roughly in the same area then.  So yes 2200-2300 as a minimum, or decrease to 28 wagons really.  I prefer the former option, although my wallet seems to be suggesting the latter!!  :P

Thanks for doing that Nick.  Whose are the 3D coupling bars you've used, or have they been a self-design?

Richard

Offline njee20

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #56 on: Today at 08:02:14 am »
Iíve used these, I find the middle length most useful, but itíll depend on what youíre using them on.

My reluctance to use them on a long train would be that the whole thing does become a bit unwieldy when connected - one giant snake!

You need NEM pockets too, not sure which wagons have them, I suspect many of the older tools wonít.

Offline crepello

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Re: East Midlands Coal
« Reply #57 on: Today at 02:58:03 pm »
Neither the Minitrix nor Farish HAAs have NEM pockets; it's an easy job to fit the Dapol pockets if you need a magnetic coupler ; even easier to replace the rapidos with Bachmann American buckeyes (alternate short and long on the Farish and all short on Minitrix.) 

 

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