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Author Topic: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points  (Read 7148 times)

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Offline daffy

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #90 on: March 01, 2018, 02:14:54 pm »
So, is it time to start testing the Tomix switches now, Mick?  :hmmm:  Or the Fleischmann? >:D

 :whistle:

Seriously, a very useful and informative investigation. Thanks for your efforts which are appreciated.
 :beers:
Mike

Sufferin' succotash!

Offline Invicta Alec

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #91 on: March 01, 2018, 02:36:24 pm »
Its a shame you've had to come to this conclusion Nobby, but at least you've given it a thorough testing.

I'd like to thank you for creating this thread in the first place since it was a major factor in helping me to decide to change to Kato but avoiding using the the #4 points.

I have eight #6 points and the scissors crossover on my layout. My trains NEVER derail because of the track work (although they do sulk a bit when I have the points set the wrong way against them :worried:). The joy of just plugging in a pre-wired point to a point motor and flicking the lever cannot be understated. Apart from a couple of pieces of strategically placed double sided tape in a vulnerable  area my track isn't actually fixed down (the various power feeders and the scenery/ballasting hold it well enough) yet it works first time every time.

Maybe I'd have a different viewpoint if I ran steam locos, but I don't. I'm sure your report will give food for thought to many, especially the steam enthusiasts, but for its ease of use (if somewhat restricted range) I cannot see me changing back from Kato.

Good luck with your layout and regards,

Alec.


Offline Lawrence

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2018, 09:05:14 am »
I think it was a good experiment for you to try mate and although your results were disappointing at least you have your decision now, stuck in the 19th century with Peco  ;) Running 1/148 scale trains on 1/160 track is never going to be without issues, even with modern manufacturing processes making tolerances finer (allegedly).

Onward and upward chap

Offline tgv_obsessed

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #93 on: March 13, 2018, 03:08:58 am »
I think it was a good experiment for you to try mate and although your results were disappointing at least you have your decision now, stuck in the 19th century with Peco  ;) Running 1/148 scale trains on 1/160 track is never going to be without issues, even with modern manufacturing processes making tolerances finer (allegedly).

Onward and upward chap

and there was me thinking japanese N scale is 1/150 (apart from shinkansens which are 1/160)

but I agree - its a great pity so much british outline derails on these points.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 03:14:51 am by tgv_obsessed »
running in is so you get used to the noise, oops, to bed the gears down properly

Offline Tavora

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #94 on: March 13, 2018, 01:10:28 pm »
I don't know if this helps but here it goes :-[



There is a "play" when the train goes through :hmmm:


What it needs is some kind of "metal spring" to keep it in place.  ;)


Online railsquid

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #95 on: March 13, 2018, 02:08:12 pm »
So, is it time to start testing the Tomix switches now, Mick? 

I have converted to Tomix, mainly because of the better variety of points. I have yet to do any scientific tests, but I haven't noticed any fundamental problem with any of the points, including the curved ones. I was running a couple of British 4-6-0 kettles recently with nary a hitch, and am happy enough to have a couple of points inside tunnels (albeit with easy access in case of emergency).

Do note however that the "standard" point is 541mm radius and 140mm long, vs the Kato #4's 125mm. Not sure how that stacks up in terms of fiddle yard space, but presumably better than the Kato #6s.
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2018, 02:53:51 pm »
@Tavora
@railsquid 

Thanks guys, but I'm just not prepared to mess about with amending points or try another make of track. Sorry, but the experiment was conducted and conclusion drawn. Kato is not for me and I'll stick with the Peco code 55.

Offline tgv_obsessed

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #97 on: March 13, 2018, 03:00:33 pm »
So, is it time to start testing the Tomix switches now, Mick? 

I have converted to Tomix, mainly because of the better variety of points. I have yet to do any scientific tests, but I haven't noticed any fundamental problem with any of the points, including the curved ones. I was running a couple of British 4-6-0 kettles recently with nary a hitch, and am happy enough to have a couple of points inside tunnels (albeit with easy access in case of emergency).

Do note however that the "standard" point is 541mm radius and 140mm long, vs the Kato #4's 125mm. Not sure how that stacks up in terms of fiddle yard space, but presumably better than the Kato #6s.

Tomix, or not Tomix- that is the question
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous import taxes
Or take suitcases full against a sea of Her Majesty's Customs and Excise Inspectorate
And by opposing risk it. To run, to derail
No more- and by a smuggle to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That UK steam is heir to. 'Tis a consumation
Devoutly to be wished. To import, to smuggle-
To run smoothly- perchance to go through the points: ay, there's the rub.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 03:03:02 pm by tgv_obsessed »
running in is so you get used to the noise, oops, to bed the gears down properly

Online railsquid

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2018, 03:04:10 pm »
Thanks guys, but I'm just not prepared to mess about with amending points or try another make of track. Sorry, but the experiment was conducted and conclusion drawn. Kato is not for me and I'll stick with the Peco code 55.

Fully understand, my post was intended more for reference for anyone reading through this thread at a later date.
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #99 on: March 13, 2018, 03:07:03 pm »
Understood and appreciated, sir.

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #100 on: March 13, 2018, 03:12:02 pm »
but I agree - its a great pity so much british outline derails on these points.
Ah but it's not just british outline; it seems to be american modellers who have published articles on the net about how to fettle these #4 points.  Kato didn't do a good job of the design of these points, not bothering to let the blades into the running rails.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline MalcolmAL

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #101 on: March 13, 2018, 03:20:00 pm »

Tomix, or not Tomix- that is the question
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous import taxes
Or take suitcases full against a sea of Her Majesty's Customs and Excise Inspectorate
And by opposing risk it. To run, to derail
No more- and by a smuggle to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That UK steam is heir to. 'Tis a consumation
Devoutly to be wished. To import, to smuggle-
To run smoothly- perchance to go through the points: ay, there's the rub.
:laughabovepost:  :claphappy:   :thumbsup:

Offline Leon

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #102 on: June 17, 2018, 08:12:49 pm »
As stated previously, all our locos are different so just because my 'blah-blah' fails the test that's not to say your equivalent will.

I'm about to finish this thread, but have been thinking about something for a while. Is it possilble the #4 point you're using is faulty? Or different? Like locos, perhaps different batches of track produce different results. I've sourced Kato track from a lot of vendors - and I believe there are at least two manufacturing sites - Japan and the US. One should at least consider quality control. Certainly, for the premium one pays for Kato, the quality expectation should be high. I'm anxiously waiting for the time I can run some rolling stock on mine!

I'll finish reading the thread, but I've not changed my mind (or plan). I'm planning to lay my track in three phases, and I don't need #4 in either of the first two phases. And, for the last phase (sidings) I have the space to use #6 if I run into any problems.

Leon

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #103 on: June 17, 2018, 08:18:23 pm »
As stated previously, all our locos are different so just because my 'blah-blah' fails the test that's not to say your equivalent will.

I'm about to finish this thread, but have been thinking about something for a while. Is it possilble the #4 point you're using is faulty? Or different? Like locos, perhaps different batches of track produce different results.

That's a possibility, Leon. However, to the best of my knowledge it's a well known defect on the #4 points and, if you're prepared to mess about with them, you can solve the issue of the switch rails not fitting the stock rails properly. A chap called Mike Fifer (in the USA) has many videos on YouTube and shows how to alter the point, so obviously the same problem exists in the States.

Offline Lindi

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #104 on: June 17, 2018, 09:06:18 pm »
A chap called Mike Fifer (in the USA) has many videos on YouTube and shows how to alter the point, so obviously the same problem exists in the States.


 

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