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Author Topic: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points  (Read 7672 times)

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Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2017, 07:03:08 pm »
I only have a figure 8 Unitrack set and a couple of old brown #6 points, the system is used for temporary lash-ups on a table for testing and servicing.  Perfect for this type of job.   The irregularity in rail height at joins irritates me and I do notice stuff clattering over them, but OTOH I accept that the track isn't permanently fixed down which would no doubt level everything up better.

Peco 55 for me for layouts, though.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline Invicta Alec

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2017, 08:10:04 pm »

I also used a scissors crossover and it works well, although it is important to check after each operation that all the switches have moved fully over.

John

Nobby, I hope not to further hijack this thread but in answer to John's observation above.......

I too have bought the scissors crossover and thought initially that mine was faulty and was about to return them. Three blades would snap into position but the 4th would move only halfway. On an earlier thread (one of the stickies IIRC) it is suggested to move the switch lever deliberately slowly. I tried it on mine - it works fine every time now.

Alec.
 


Online njee20

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2017, 12:12:44 am »
Sounds pretty poor given the significant expense...

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2017, 12:05:54 pm »
Many thanks, Alec.  That's exactly what I have found.  At the start of each operating session I give the scissors a couple of throws to free it up, then move the lever with a steady pull.  This works well.  I use the same technique where I have wired Kato #6 points together in a crossover.  There is no doubt in my mind that Kato 'Unitrack' is, overall, an excellent system and the track on 'Sandrock' has given no trouble at all over six years.

With best wishes.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)


The Table-Top Railway is a train set trying and failing to be a model railway.

I believe that train sets and model railways are fun.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2018, 01:01:15 pm »
Long time, no mojo :(
However, a combination of time and a disinclination to go outside and get certain parts frozen off led me to complete testing my steam locos on Kato Unitrack #4 points, and the results were even more disappointing than I'd thought. There is no way on this earth I can switch from Peco to Kato :no:
I tested 18 steam locos and just 7 ran through the points without problems (39%). Overall, out of 51 steam locos just 31 passed the test (61%) :o
All of the problems were pony trucks and tenders derailing on one or more points of the passing loop.
Just to re-iterate, locos were run clockwise in a forwards direction through both sides of the loop, and then reversed anti-clockwise through both sides. The loco was then lifted, turned 180 degrees and the test repeated in both directions.
As stated previously, all our locos are different so just because my 'blah-blah' fails the test that's not to say your equivalent will.

(Before any trigger happy Mod thinks to move this to the 'Track, Points and Underlay' section please allow me to finish testing the diesels and then I'll post in that section with a link to this)

Online Malc

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #80 on: February 28, 2018, 02:39:38 pm »
Just as a matter of interest, Mick. Do you fit a short straight before the point?
I'm not sure if life is passing me by, or trying to run me over.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2018, 03:58:22 pm »
I do, Malc, but only the 29mm pieces.
Remember, the original intention was not to take up more space than the Peco track.

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #82 on: February 28, 2018, 04:12:26 pm »
Hi Mick,

Did they derail more in the facing direction?   And did they derail more going round the curve rather than the straight?

And do you think it is to do with the switch rail not being recessed into the stock rail..... or gauge, or frog design.....or something else?

...just curious...... If Lofthole wasn't in the loft I could try a steam engine on it.  Lofhole has had the mod done on all 17 points (which was a labour of love I can tell you!)

Cheer Jon  :)

As a postscript, having done the mod all my diesels run fine through No4 points.  The reason I did the mod was because I had a big problem with Dapol 66s failing 100% of the time....just shrugging and jumping off the track, and also many goods wagons managing to get their flanges in between the stock and switch rail.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 04:16:12 pm by PostModN66, Reason: PS »
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #83 on: February 28, 2018, 04:20:12 pm »
Hi, Jon.
At a rough guess 75% of the problems were going round the curved element of the point and, yes, I firmly believe it is the point blade not seating correctly against the stock rail - something Kato are well aware of with this point I believe.
I don't think it is gauge as locos from Farish Poole/China, Dapol, and Minitrix both passed and failed whereas they all pass through my Peco points. It was with some trepidation I ran the Dapol Schools but it sailed through.
As I need more than 60 points I just ain't gonna do the mod!!! (to say nothing of £1500 or so before I even get them)

Offline cornish yorkie

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2018, 09:24:04 pm »
 :hellosign: Thanks for sharing your investigations Mick, I love my Kato track although all my points are 6s a lot of my previous plans involved 4s so thanks again for the info.
           regards Derek.

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2018, 10:27:57 pm »
Thanks again for this important research, Mick.

I have had similar experiences.  I modified a #4 with 'joggles' (pretty much following John Sing's advice) and it was a bit better.  I then engaged in serious carving of the common crossing and it was noticeably better.  But still not reliable enough for a layout, in my view.

The worst combination I found was steam locomotive, tender first, facing point, diverging track.

I must add that when used with Kato locomotives the running was perfect with no modifications.

By the way, I found out the hard way that, used in the facing direction, even #6 turnouts were better with a straight 'lead-in' track (45mm appeared the minimum) and 'joggles' filed if steam locomotives were used.  Maybe I'm too fussy but the occasional, random 'on the ballast' situation was more annoying than I was willing to accept.  Of course, perhaps my track-laying was below par.


Best wishes.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)


The Table-Top Railway is a train set trying and failing to be a model railway.

I believe that train sets and model railways are fun.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #86 on: March 01, 2018, 09:29:13 am »
It's very difficult to lay Kato track badly as it does connect together very well, albeit some rail heights seem to vary a little.
I ask you to bear in mind these are only my experiences with my locos and thus the results should only be used as a guide. The problem is, unless you buy the track you can't find out. I'm keeping an Excel spreadsheet of the results so when I've done the diesels/DMUs (27 to go) I'll post results.

Offline Bealman

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #87 on: March 01, 2018, 10:31:12 am »
I admire your enthusiasm... personally I would have gone with ok or, stuffed!  ;)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 10:32:57 am by Bealman »
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Milton Rail

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #88 on: March 01, 2018, 11:47:34 am »
Thanks for the extensive experiment Mick ... I don't see me switching to Kato any time soon!

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #89 on: March 01, 2018, 01:58:25 pm »
Well, that's another 4½ hours of my life I won't get back but, at last, all testing is done as I completed the diesels this morning. Some odd results which I can only put down to variances in my locos :confused2:
One Warship passed the test and 2 other Warships failed. My old Poole class 47s passed but the more recent ones failed. 4 class 40's passed but the latest one failed (I'm not surprised at this as 'Mauretania' is pernicketty about my Peco points). Of the DMUs,  2 class 108s passed and 1 failed, where a class 101 and the Blue Pullman passed. The overall failure rate for diesels/DMUs is therefore 6/56 i.e.11%
The main problem seemed to be running into the point and then just jamming on it (I did tell Bob Marley to bugger off as he was messing things up ;D)

Sorry, Kato, but you won't be getting business. I can't afford to lose the space I need by fitting #6 points and the failure rate just does not warrant the expenditure on replacing Peco code 55 small electrofrogs with #4 points, especially as all I was doing was trying to ease my issues with electrickery and wiring. Results will follow in the next few days. Thanks for following this.

 

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