!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points  (Read 7036 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PostModN66

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 17980
  • Posts: 1883
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2017, 02:51:01 pm »
Lofthole is set up at the moment, so it would be interesting to run some steam locos around to see what happened; bearing in mind that I have modified all my number 4s to get the switch rails to sit neatly against the stock rails.  There are 17 number 4 points in various configurations.

The  only problem is I have no steam locos!

Cheer Jon  :)
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

My Postmodern Image Layouts

Lofthole http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14792.msg147178#msg147178

Deansmoor http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14741.msg146381#msg146381

Offline dodger

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 12791
  • Posts: 985
  • Country: england
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2017, 02:56:12 pm »
This is a very valuable piece of research - especially for steam locos although it would be interesting to find out if others have run Kato steamies through #4 points

This is one way, IMHO, that life does become a lot easier for those of us using EMU/DMU trains ;)

I'm not surprised at Mick's results, I had the same problem with no4 points. See my earlier posts on this thread so I went to no6 points as Kato were the only ones I could operate electrically due to a micro sized layout.

Dodger

Offline Byegad

  • Account Suspended
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2017, 02:57:30 pm »

The  only problem is I have no steam locos!

Cheer Jon  :)
:goggleeyes: Wot No Steamers? How is it possible even in this day and age?


Wanders off muttering about the young not having a sense of heritage. Bah! Humbug, etc. etc.

Offline ntpntpntp

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1784
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2017, 03:20:25 pm »
So... have you identified what's actually going on with the derailments?  Is it flanges riding up the tips of blades or check rails, or the frog V, or some other part of the model catching something?   

If this were a general problem experienced by many people I'd have thought it would have been raised with Kato and corrected.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline dodger

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 12791
  • Posts: 985
  • Country: england
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2017, 03:24:20 pm »
So... have you identified what's actually going on with the derailments?  Is it flanges riding up the tips of blades or check rails, or the frog V, or some other part of the model catching something?   

If this were a general problem experienced by many people I'd have thought it would have been raised with Kato and corrected.

I had problems with the tips of blades, check rails and the crossing V. The problem has been known about for years judging by the amount of information available.

Dodger

Offline PostModN66

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 17980
  • Posts: 1883
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2017, 03:26:22 pm »
Wanders off muttering about the young not having a sense of heritage. Bah! Humbug, etc. etc.

I'll be 55 in July......I suppose young compared to some!

cheers  Jon  :)
“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

My Postmodern Image Layouts

Lofthole http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14792.msg147178#msg147178

Deansmoor http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14741.msg146381#msg146381

Offline Byegad

  • Account Suspended
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 208
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2017, 03:37:41 pm »
Wanders off muttering about the young not having a sense of heritage. Bah! Humbug, etc. etc.

I'll be 55 in July......I suppose young compared to some!

cheers  Jon  :)

From where I'm sitting... I'll stand by my comments! It's a credit to our hobby that people do things differently. I saw a lot of iconic Steam locomotives in my youth and so recreate this on my model railways, I do own some of those nasty smelly Diesels, but not many!  :beers:

 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:40:17 pm by Byegad »

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+59)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 28319
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2017, 04:06:26 pm »
So... have you identified what's actually going on with the derailments?  Is it flanges riding up the tips of blades or check rails, or the frog V, or some other part of the model catching something?   

If this were a general problem experienced by many people I'd have thought it would have been raised with Kato and corrected.

From the position I operate the locos from it's nigh on impossible to see what is happening as I'm above the passing loop. It's academic, really as, like I said from the start, this experiment works or it doesn't. I'm not altering anything on my stock as it all works perfectly well through Peco code 55. To the best of my knowledge (which is quite small regarding Unitrack) the problem with #4 points has been known about for a long time. One of the 'gurus' of Kato (Mike Fifer) has shown how to modify the points but also believed Kato themselves had made the necessary mod.

Offline ntpntpntp

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1784
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2017, 09:33:47 pm »
Interesting watching the vids about adjusting the Kato #4.   Inspired me to dig out my pair of ancient (brown ballast) #6s I have and run a few things through.  They have no blade notch either but it doesn't seem to cause any problems.   I've just taken the back cover off and screwed down the frog on one of them as it was a bit high.

Everything continental outline I've put through the #6s has purred through no problem, from ancient 60s Arnold to modern Fleischmann etc. 

My recently acquired UM B12 isn't quite so keen on the frog, although the b2b seems about the same as my Fleischmann stuff (I've not put the calipers on it).

Also interesting that most of my Tomix Thomas The Tank wagons are a bit tight on B2B through the #6 frog, as is James
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 09:41:44 pm by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Online austinbob

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23835
  • Posts: 4281
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2017, 09:50:27 pm »
I think its well established that #6 points don't cause much of a problem - but problems with #4 points are well publicised. Hence NN's experiment.
 :beers:
Size matters - especially if you don't have a lot of space - and N gauge is the answer!

Bob Austin

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+59)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 28319
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2017, 01:29:11 pm »
Here I am again to bore the arbacksides off anyone who's still with me on this journey :sleep:
Another 18 locos run through the passing loop with all diesels passing the test.
Only horrors steam wise were the Farish V2 where the front pony truck derailed in both directions and my Collectors Club Black 5 which derailed it's pony truck in both directions when the points were set to 'straight through'. Strange as my other Black 5 passed with no problems :confused2:
Could be a b2b is slightly out but I'm not altering it as it runs through me Peco code 55 small points with no issues.

That's 30 steamers and 30 diesels so far. Scores..........
Steam 70% pass
Diesel 100% pass


Offline railsquid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25547
  • Posts: 4167
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • My model railway website
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2017, 03:43:41 pm »
This is a very valuable piece of research - especially for steam locos although it would be interesting to find out if others have run Kato steamies through #4 points
My sole Japanese kettle is a Kato 4-6-2, if memory works correctly it worked find on my old Unitrack (temporary) layout, where there was one #4 point which caused problems for a seemingly random range of stock. However the kettle in question was built for robustness rather than fine detail.

Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Offline railsquid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25547
  • Posts: 4167
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • My model railway website
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2017, 03:47:33 pm »
That's 30 steamers and 30 diesels so far. Scores..........
Steam 70% pass
Diesel 100% pass
Come to think of it, one of my Farish 46s didn't like the Kato #4 points; I suspect because the back-to-backs on the leading axles are a little out, as it's also turned out a little jumpy on my temporary Tomix setup compared to the other two I have.
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

Offline georgehgv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1456
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Geominster Mainline & Heritage Railway
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2017, 08:32:00 pm »
With a big enough hammer, any point can become curved. 😇

Not only curved but also have a gradient built in if aforementioned lump hammer is applied with accuracy. This thread is all Japanese to me and then we have inches and mm within two words of each other omg my brain is heaving with all this technical chatter. 🙈
Geominster was my first project which has now been dismantled.

Having learnt so much from Geominster this is the new project.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30850.0

The original layout progress here
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18319.msg184399#msg184399

Visit my new website here
http://georgehgv.wix.com/geominster

Offline georgehgv

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1456
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Geominster Mainline & Heritage Railway
    • Awards
Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2017, 08:42:54 pm »
After three beers two trips to the loo I have finally arrived at the end of the thread. Question Mick. Do all of your locos behave consistently or do some occasionally derail so confusing your results. I can run a loco 30 times around the track and without change or reason lap 31 it derails, example only of course.
And finally are you going to go DCC at last?
Geominster was my first project which has now been dismantled.

Having learnt so much from Geominster this is the new project.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30850.0

The original layout progress here
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18319.msg184399#msg184399

Visit my new website here
http://georgehgv.wix.com/geominster

 

Please Support Us!
June Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Jun 30
Total Receipts: £60.00
Above Goal: £5.00
Site Currency: GBP
109% 
June Donations


Advertise Here
anything