!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!  (Read 11386 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Thorpe Parva

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21786
  • Posts: 145
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #285 on: January 11, 2017, 03:56:18 pm »
Ben/Mike

Any chance of a status update on this project?

David

Offline red_death

  • Revolution Trains
  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2027
  • Country: gb
  • NGS Product Development Officer
    • DEMU - the society for Diesel & Electric modellers of all scales
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #286 on: January 11, 2017, 04:59:50 pm »
Hi David

There is not a huge amount to report since our last update ie that we will give the project until the end of February (ie after the Glasgow show) before we review sales figures and make a final decision whether to go ahead with tooling or not.

Sales figures have increased, but we are still not at a level we could comfortably authorise tooling - if we did authorise tooling on current sales we would be taking a massive risk. (By comparison the sales so far are less than half of those of our TEA or the expressions of interest in our HOA).

Cheers, Mike




Offline Barry M

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24276
  • Posts: 282
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #287 on: January 11, 2017, 05:05:54 pm »
I sincerely hope this goes ahead.
I have done everything I can think of to promote this....
Building 'Bromsgrove' - a large N Gauge layout depicting the banking practices 1958-1964 on the Lickey. DCC and computer controlled with Railroad & Co!

Offline Mark

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: Yes
  • 2mm Association Number: No
  • Posts: 28
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #288 on: January 11, 2017, 07:41:15 pm »
Thanks for the update Mike.  The comparison in orders / statements of interest is stark and pretty thought provoking – The B tanks were announced at TINGS and (I think) you only announced the HOAs around the end of November – early December?  The B tanks were by far the more numerous wagon, travelled almost the length and breadth of the country and covered a much wider timeframe, including the frequently modelled transition era.  They were announced shortly after the extremely positive response to the TEAs - very firm evidence, for the wary, that it stood (stands) every chance of being an outstandingly good model.

So why are sales so comparatively poor?

Are us transition era modellers that much less open to new practices such as crowdfunding than our modern era brethren?  Are we far more likely to do our shopping in more traditional environments?  Is the transition market perhaps relatively smaller than many believe? Or have Revolution and all of the good folk on this and other forums that have supported and promoted this project just failed to reach the right audience in anything like the numbers that Revolution have so spectacularly achieved with their other modern models?   

Maybe elements of all the above?

With the TEAs, Pendolino, PFAs, HOAs and even two different 92s there are now a number of crowdfunded modern image models that either have been or appear highly likely to be successful.

Let’s just hope more of us transition modellers wake up to and invest in what would almost certainly be a wonderful model.     

Sorry for the lengthy rumination! 

Mark

Offline Chetcombe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21564
  • Posts: 1025
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • YouTube
    • Chetcombe on YouTube
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #289 on: January 12, 2017, 01:05:06 am »
I admit I procrastinated on this one, wanting to see before I buy. But having seen the reviews of the TEA, I'm sold. Not sure if my 9 will make a difference, but it is worth a try!

Hopefully there are others out there who felt / feel the same way and like me decide to act!!

Dare one ask how far from the target Ben and Mike are on this one? Will completely understand if that is a commercial secret which can't be divulged!

Offline red_death

  • Revolution Trains
  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2027
  • Country: gb
  • NGS Product Development Officer
    • DEMU - the society for Diesel & Electric modellers of all scales
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #290 on: January 12, 2017, 11:01:56 am »
Are us transition era modellers that much less open to new practices such as crowdfunding than our modern era brethren?  Are we far more likely to do our shopping in more traditional environments?  Is the transition market perhaps relatively smaller than many believe? Or have Revolution and all of the good folk on this and other forums that have supported and promoted this project just failed to reach the right audience in anything like the numbers that Revolution have so spectacularly achieved with their other modern models?   

Maybe elements of all the above?

I think you are right that it is a combination of all of the above. One other striking thing I've noticed is that buying patterns are very different between the 35t Class B and the TEAs - we just haven't really seen many of the "large" orders that we got for the TEAs.

I admit I procrastinated on this one, wanting to see before I buy. But having seen the reviews of the TEA, I'm sold.

Dare one ask how far from the target Ben and Mike are on this one? Will completely understand if that is a commercial secret which can't be divulged!

I completely understand that ideally people want to see before they buy - in an ideal world we would like to be able to take much greater risks on models (like the Class B) which we are convinced will sell well, but we are where we are and our business model only works by people trusting us to produce good models (as people have seen with the Pendolino development, we are not prepared to put something out we are not happy with).

I'm not going to give numbers, though there are enough hints on this thread and other threads (about what is generally necessary for our projects to go ahead) for people to get a good idea! It isn't so much about it being a commercial secret, but more that I'm not sure what the impact (good or bad) would be of giving out numbers ie will it encourage people to buy more to make it happen or discourage people from ordering any because they don't see it as likely to happen!

Apologies for sitting on the fence on that - the crucial message is that our projects only happen because our customers want them to and place orders for them. If anyone has any concerns or questions that might help tip them over the edge into ordering then please feel free to ask Ben and me (either on here or by PM).

Cheers, Mike



Offline Roy L S

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1443
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #291 on: January 12, 2017, 07:03:18 pm »
I put some flyers in our local model shop and when asking a few weeks later was told that interest was being shown in the project but how does one then translate that into commitments?

Personally I don't think it is the size of the Market that is an issue as this particular model doesn't just appeal to a single one. It transcends all the most popular eras right into the 90s. I suspect that as a percentage of the total Market that's probably getting towards 75%. NGS models are mostly of transition prototypes and there seems no issue with them sales wise.

I think the buying pattern may reflect that the majority are not looking for block trains as they might be the TEA etc. Rather they are looking to have the tanks as a component of a typical mixed freight train, in the later Sectorisation timeframe maybe a Speedlink working or trip freight - six or so wagons rather than 15 plus.

Maybe too the greater choice of transition wagons is a factor and the Market is better satisfied? There are after all several types of lower capacity tanks in the Farish range plus later 35T types and the two types of Peco ones as well.

Is price also a bigger factor for some of us "stingy" transition modellers?

My last thought is that maybe there is a market but because of the greater choice a longer time is needed for them to sell through. This is fine for traditional manufacturers where it is accepted (and maybe even desirable) to hold stock in the warehouse to satisfy demand over a longer period, but just does not work for a crowdfunded route to market where fewer products to choose from means an up front "spike" due to pent up demand for certain well chosen models?

Like most I'm not 100% sure I understand but clearly there does appear to be a pattern emerging.

Whatever the reason I remain hopeful.

Roy

Offline MacRat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #292 on: January 12, 2017, 07:11:09 pm »
If the buying pattern appears to be so much different, is attributing this only to people not liking to give money upfront or not knowing about the model alone is still applicable? If I understand correctly, the HOA is already above the threshold while the longer running class B campaign still isn't. How about to add the following attributes to the discussion:

* Layout size?
For post privatisation era quite few N gauge layouts have appeared that successfully depict the train in the landscape and show that a railway is there to move goods in bulk loads with long trains, see Heworth Siding, Hinksey Yard, Banbury. These two trains in the video alone may account for about 50 TEAs, thats two orders for 25 wagons. While for the class B tank it appears more of 10 orders for 5 cars, with numbers chosen for easy calculation. Thats about 5x more people who have to be encouraged to order.

* Different type of trains in different eras?
Train load may have been not so omni present as in the post privatisation era. So people don't need so many wagons of one type to model an authentic train. The uniformity of a complete train of tank cars may also be considered as boring.

* Saturation of transition era market?
There where statements regarding the class B tank that it is not different enough to justify this model. People may have a lot of stuff already and either don't want to buy another 4 wheel tank car because it's not different or top of with a small number of wagons now and then, when they feel like it. With the class B tanks it is only now and never then. The market for post privatisation models appears to surge up~~~~~ Hype train is in full speed. I have the impression no transition model can excite a modeler this much anymore, it's always the wrong one.

Offline Roy L S

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1443
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #293 on: January 12, 2017, 07:21:52 pm »
Hi MacRat

I think many of your thoughts reflect my own in the preceding post.

I don't thou think transition modellers are alone as being in the "never satisfied" camp. The recently announced refurbished 31 appears to have attracted it's fair share of gripes for not being a "Skinhead" variant!

There's always someone!

All the best

Roy

Offline Snowwolflair

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25174
  • 2mm Association Number: 4194
  • Posts: 988
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #294 on: January 12, 2017, 07:24:35 pm »
How about just not sexy or distinctive enough.  I have always been of the view that railway modelers are quite vain and want people to complement them on their models.

If a TEA HOA 92 or Pendolino etc goes round a layout at a show, they will raise a comment, but I'm afraid a Class B tanker just does not cut it.

Offline MacRat

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 251
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #295 on: January 12, 2017, 07:43:28 pm »
Roy L S, yes, our posts have crossed mid air.

I quite like the yellow class 31. I have watched one in 2010 in Didcot Parkway trying to start up, shunting to the main line with a test train and then drawing away by the platform I was standing on. I can't remember if it was 31233 or 31603, but a yellow class 31 model is probably going to the continent, but I digress.

Offline Barry M

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24276
  • Posts: 282
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #296 on: January 12, 2017, 07:51:40 pm »
How about just not sexy or distinctive enough.  I have always been of the view that railway modelers are quite vain and want people to complement them on their models.

If a TEA HOA 92 or Pendolino etc goes round a layout at a show, they will raise a comment, but I'm afraid a Class B tanker just does not cut it.

Well if this comes off, I hope 18 Class B wagons hauled by a Class 33 will cut it and raise a comment or two!!!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 07:52:51 pm by Barry M »
Building 'Bromsgrove' - a large N Gauge layout depicting the banking practices 1958-1964 on the Lickey. DCC and computer controlled with Railroad & Co!

Offline Snowwolflair

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25174
  • 2mm Association Number: 4194
  • Posts: 988
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #297 on: January 12, 2017, 07:58:33 pm »
How about just not sexy or distinctive enough.  I have always been of the view that railway modelers are quite vain and want people to complement them on their models.

If a TEA HOA 92 or Pendolino etc goes round a layout at a show, they will raise a comment, but I'm afraid a Class B tanker just does not cut it.

Well if this comes off, I hope 18 Class B wagons hauled by a Class 33 will cut it and raise a comment or two!!!

I think they will but I get the impression they are currently failing the imagination test.

Offline acko22

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 661
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • PROJECT RAILWAY HONOUR - HONOURING THE PAST, HELPING TODAY
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #298 on: January 12, 2017, 08:51:27 pm »
I did reply before, but took it down as well it was came across overly negative against the model.

I actually thing its a great model like other have said covering the 50s all the way to the early 90s on the national network, then how many still exist on preserved lines?

There are factors which ok do hamper the model, looking on it from my perspective transition era is one of the better catered eras a like of that due to the long life of examples from that period at either end with stuff coming across from steam era and well stuff lasting into the 90s and even to today, this makes it very attractive for Farish / Dapol as they can get more cash for their efforts, then you have kits which are more prevalent for this era than most right now.

This may be the single biggest factor that is causing the Class B to not be as big a hit as the TEA, which when you look in comparison while transition era modellers out number Modern era modellers, there is also a wider choice for transition era. While not a bad thing in anyway unless you are able to sit on a product and wait for the profits to trickle is as already said then its a no, no and for the business model that revolution are based around

But on the flip side unlike some of the items that is currently on offer the Class B is an all rounder seen everywhere in every type of formation from 30+ wagon oil train to the single wagon rural service, the fact it took members on here to put it forward and for Revolution to take it on surprises me a little, I am glad they have but its up to transition modellers to well take things forward.
Another side that may see people buy some soon as is the price rises that Farish have announced which well lets face it make the Class B a event better bargin!

If the model does fall short I put money on it there will be people who will say they should have put their money in for some to make things happen, this cant be blamed on Mike or Ben for their efforts I would just say purely the market. I know if I had the spare cash I would be tempted to buy a few just to help them over the line and then ell further down the line


Offline PaulCheffus

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 4575
  • 2mm Association Number: 4172
  • Posts: 859
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: EXCLUSIVE - REVOLUTION Goes To The Top Of Class B!
« Reply #299 on: January 12, 2017, 09:15:10 pm »
I know if I had the spare cash I would be tempted to buy a few just to help them over the line and then sell further down the line

Hi

I must admit I am considering this option. My personal need for this type along with the class A tanker has been catered for with a kit all be it a 2mm scale one rather than N.

Cheers

Paul

 

Please Support Us!
January Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Jan 31
Total Receipts: £55.00
Below Goal: £0.00
Site Currency: GBP
100% 
January Donations


Advertise Here
anything