!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Poll

Would you be interested in a model of the Esso et al 35T Class A and/or Class B Petroleum and Heavy Oil Tanker wagons.

Yes - Class A - 1 or 2
2 (2.9%)
Yes - Class A - 5 to 10
8 (11.4%)
Yes - Class A - 11 or more
2 (2.9%)
Yes - Class B - 1 or 2
7 (10%)
Yes - Class B - 5 to 10
9 (12.9%)
Yes - Class B - 11 or more
2 (2.9%)
Yes - Both Class A and Class B (any number)
31 (44.3%)
No - Not interested
9 (12.9%)

Total Members Voted: 67

Voting closed: May 31, 2016, 10:02:38 am

Author Topic: Gauging Interest in Commisoning of Esso Class A and Class B 35T tanker Wagons  (Read 7592 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ScottyStitch

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
NOTE: If you have voted for both Class A and B, can you advise how many you are interested in? (Of each, if practical.)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
CLASS A at the rear, Class B at the front

THIS POLL RELATES TO A RTR MODEL ONLY.

I Hope @Bob G doesn't mind me copying and pasting his post from another thread, and adding some mor einformation.Please note these are not TTA/TTVs, these are precursors to that larger capacity wagon.

There is still much research to be done on these vehicles. However, before anyone would be in a position to be willing to take it forward, we have to see if there is sufficient interest.

"Hello

I've been doing more research into the 35t GLW Class A/B tanks.

Most private owner wagons in the 1950s and 1960s were for petroleum products. The 'Esso' tank came in two varieties, class A tanks had a body just over 25 long, the Class B tank was 226 long. Both were about 7 in diameter on a 15 chassis. These tanks were all anchor mounted and unbraced. They did not have a skirt above the sole bar, unlike the later TTV/TTA.

Esso introduced a Class A and a Class B tank wagon in 1957, both originally built by Charles Roberts of Wakefield.

Class A tanks were used for light spirit, such as petroleum, and as such highly flammable. Initially bottom loading/emptying of Class A liquids was bannedd and so the Class A tanks did not have this facility. Class B tanks related to heavier oils such as Diesel, parafinn, etc, and bitumins. Bottom unloading was permitted and these wagons had valve gear on top of the barrel  for this facility. The class Bs had shorter barrels, being heavier, 35t of class B liquid takes up less volume.......

Esso Class A 1957-1974 - grey body, black chassis, red solebar, Esso emblem on panel. No series 3200-3299 (built Charles Roberts and Hurst Nelson, 1957-58, Powell Duffryn 1962), 4021-4125 (Charles Roberts 1959, Powell Duffryn 1961), 4253-4304 (Powell Duffryn and Metropolitan Cammell, 1962-63), and 4329-4358 (Charles Roberts 1962).

Esso Class A 1974-1988. TOPs numbering, without Esso Emblem. Tops added a 4 to the original Esso four-digit number. Around this time (but not all at once) the Esso wording and logo panel was removed, leaving a number of bolting points on the tank to collect grime, and leave the evidence of a former panel having been removed. Hazchem panel added 1976.

Esso Class B 1957-1974. With Esso Emblem. The classic Airfix/Dapol model. All over black. No 3300 on.

Esso Class B 1974-1980. TOPs numbering without Esso Emblem. Other features as per Class A.

Class B Mobil Charringtons Red tank. 1960s. A couple of labelling variations.

Class B Regent black tank. 1962-74. Similar to a Peco attempt recently.

Class B Texaco black tank. 1974-1988. Texaco bought Regent and the wagons were debadged in 1974.

Ex Esso Class B Departmental users. 1983 - 1993. A number of tanks went into plain black with ADB or TDB number scheme for waste oil work. Some retained ESSO number scheme and were marked Lube Oil or Gas Oil in this period.

Ex Esso CEGB Oil Tank Wagons. 1980 1988. The CEGB obtained former ESSO Class B tanks secondhand and re-registered them on TOPs. Some unfitted ones used the frame from CEGB double door minerals (Dapol chassis?) and kept the Esso tank number.

United Molasses. Former Class B tanks. 1970 1983.   Brown tanks pre 1974. Blue ends on some tanks(UM251 and above, mostly the 1962 original builds) post TOPs. United Molasses hired this fleet during the early 1970s from Tiger Railcar Leasing (TRL). These had been class B wagons used for fuel oil by Gulf, Charringtons and others.  Fleet numbers UM200-264 (TRL48001-48056, then irregular, with UM264 TRL48000).

These wagons were seen all over the network.  They span the period 1957 - 1993. Modellers could use these in short or long rakes, or singly.


There are at least six different viable Type B models to produce. And the Type A are just so pretty, and in post TOPS form begging to be done weathered, that they should not be left out  :)

Type A. Grey with Esso logo - 1957-1974
Type A. Grey without Esso logo - 1974 - 1988

Type B. Black with Esso logo. 1958-1974
Type B. Black without Esso logo. 1974-1980
Type B. Black with ADB/TDB departmental use. 1983-1990.
Type B. United Molasses brown and blue. 1970-1983.
Type B. Charringtons. Two detailed variants. 1958-1974.
Type B. Regent. 1958-1974.


Bob"

Class A

http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/essofawley/e24681a69
Now, this is listed by Paul as 36T, so like I said, some more research is needed. It also lists it as having bottom discharge. The initial ban on bottom unloading was rescinded, I can't remember when.


This looks like a mix of As and Bs
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/40/12/2401276_37b3897e.jpg



Class B

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/foxfield/Esso_tank_wagon_Jan2004.JPG

http://www.tower-models.com/towermodels/ogauge/heljan/wagons/tankb/regent2.jpg (This is the Heljan model - 7mm)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 02:42:45 pm by ScottyStitch »

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+59)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 27956
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Vote made. Would prefer RTR.

ScottyStitch

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Vote made. Would prefer RTR.

I should have said that the poll related to RTR, Mick, I will amend the splurge above.

ScottyStitch

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
"I was invited by Ben to find a photo of a steam train hauling type B tanks, to encourage enthusiasm from you lot (as if that was needed  :D ).
Here it is. A 9F at Wolvercote on a Fawley - Bamford Bridge train. There are lots of photos of 9Fs hauling this train. Six or so were shedded at Eastleigh in the early 1960s for this very purpose.
They were replaced in the mid 1960s by pairs of green class 33s.
I have also seen a Stanier Black 5 on similar train at Shotton, but with older tanks still.

These wagons were the first tanks to have through (vacuum) brakes and so were one of the first block trains to run.  But this did not mean the tanks didn't run singly or in smaller groups in mixed unfitted freights, as there are photos showing this too (again behind a 9F).

The barrier wagons were not necessary on heavy oil (type B) tank trains, only on the more volatile Type A lighter oils, so barrier wagons are optional for the black tanks, and I have seen photos of the 9F coupled directly to the block oil train. The Bachmann 13t high sided steel wagons are ideal barrier wagons for this use. Barrier wagons were not used on the diesel hauled trains.

Hope this gets you enthused.
Bob

www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action-media;sa=media;in=37423

9F on oil tanks at Wolvercote

Image Copyright Ben Brooksbank. This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Generic Licence. To view a copy of this licence, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, 171 Second Street, Suite 300, San Francisco, California, 94105, USA."
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 10:45:04 am by ScottyStitch »

Offline jrb

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 480
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Aire Valley Railway Modellers' Club
    • Awards
Might be worth adding pictures of each option into the first post? Then people can see what they're voting for.

Admittedly tankers are not something I would have thought about buying, but if it went ahead I'd buy half a dozen just to support the project. :thumbsup:
I'm supporting Revolution Trains' Class 'B' project:

ScottyStitch

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Might be worth adding pictures of each option into the first post? Then people can see what they're voting for.

Admittedly tankers are not something I would have thought about buying, but if it went ahead I'd buy half a dozen just to support the project. :thumbsup:

I'm getting there mate  ;) :thumbsup:

ScottyStitch

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
For those who have selected Both Class A & B, could you please post how many you'd be interested in taking? (of each if practical)

Many thanks

Offline PennineWagons

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
    • Awards
Vote cast.
I'd potentially be interested in one of each type/livery combination from the pre-TOPS era. Any idea roughly what sort of price per wagon we might be talking about?
PW

Offline red_death

  • Revolution Trains
  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2389
  • Country: gb
  • NGS Product Development Officer
    • DEMU - the society for Diesel & Electric modellers of all scales
    • Awards
I suspect you are looking at 15-20 per wagon perhaps a little bit cheaper.

The crucial things are how many variants do you want to tool (eg different barrels for class A and B) and how many you think you can sell (assuming the tooling costs are written off on the first run).

Cheers, Mike



Offline maridunian

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Country: wales
    • Awards
The 'Esso' tank came in two varieties, class A tanks had a body just over 25 long, the Class B tank was 226 long. Both were about 7 in diameter on a 15 chassis.


From memory, I think there are some scale drawings in Oil on the Rails, a very interesting history of the evolution of rail tank wagons, which also features a 9F pulling a trainload of these on its cover!

Mike
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 04:09:13 pm by maridunian »

Online Smiffy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 18903
  • 2mm Association Number: 4323
  • Posts: 111
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
For those who have selected Both Class A & B, could you please post how many you'd be interested in taking? (of each if practical)

Depending on price, if the higher end of Mike's estimate 9x As and 3x Bs

Offline Kris

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
I would most likely only be looking for one or two of each as they only just scrape into the the timeframe that I am modelling, 1957 being the end date for me. 

Offline Mark

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19659
  • 2mm Association Number: No
  • Posts: 63
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Excellent info Scott & Bob G.  Have cast my vote - would probably have 8-10 Class A & 2-4 Class B (or, if only one of the classes were to be produced, 8-12 of either). Will follow this closely.

Mark

Offline Cooper

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22643
  • 2mm Association Number: 5048
  • Posts: 857
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
I've voted for both, but will want 1or 2 of each as they only just creep into my timeline at 1988-90. They would make an ideal internal user waste oil wagon near a fuelling road on a layout of a later period though!

Offline Ditape

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 25087
  • Posts: 1467
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Female
    • Awards
For those who have selected Both Class A & B, could you please post how many you'd be interested in taking? (of each if practical)

Many thanks
Probably 4/5 of each.
Diane Tape



 

Please Support Us!
May Goal: £55.00
Due Date: May 31
Total Receipts: £55.00
Below Goal: £0.00
Site Currency: GBP
100% 
May Donations


Advertise Here