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Author Topic: Eigatani Tetsudo  (Read 20242 times)

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Offline MalcolmInN

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2015, 02:46:01 pm »
Eigatani = ??
A dynamic quantum mechanical state whose wave function is an eigenvector that corresponds to a physical quantity.
Oh no, sorry, that's an Eigenstate,

hat coat etc.

Online railsquid

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2015, 03:45:33 pm »
Eigatani = ??
A dynamic quantum mechanical state whose wave function is an eigenvector that corresponds to a physical quantity.
Oh no, sorry, that's an Eigenstate,

hat coat etc.

Alles klar, kein Problem.

Right, well as you all keep asking... as I'm sure you know, Chinese (yes, China not Japan) has a writing system based on ideographic characters with no native system for expressing foreign names or other troublesome words from distant parts. Which means when the British rolled up a couple of centuries ago in their fancy sailing ships offering to exchange opium for tea so they could buy slaves in the Caribbean (or something like that), the Chinese had to hastily come up with a way of expressing the concept of "Britain", or "England" as the island is erroneously known through large swathes of the world (I spent 15 years in Germany explaining that yes, by chance I am in fact reasonably English, but that is pure coincidence and technically I'm British), and for presumably diplomatic reasons "England" became transliterated as the characters "Ying-guo", "guo" meaning "country", "ying" being close to "ing" (as in "Ingerland!") and bearing the meaning "hero", i.e. "Heroic Country". Well it does take some courage to sail halfway around the world in a leaky gunbucket to intimidate the natives using a technology they originally invented.

Anyway, as I'm sure you're all also aware, Japanese - though linguistically completely unrelated to Chinese - adopted the Chinese writing system as they'd failed to develop their own. Though they ended up having to do that (twice) to supplement the Chinese characters due to Japanese being completely different, so you end up with a writing system which looks like "Chinese character + string of Japanese characters to conjugate the verb the Chinese character represents because Chinese barely conjugates while Japanese conjugation can go on for minutes especially if honorifics are involved".

Now, this process happened many centuries before the English British turned up in the region demanding a cuppa, which had the interesting side effect that the Japanese way of pronouncing the Chinese characters was based on the pronunciation current in China at the time. Which means the character for "hero", pronounced in reasonably recent Chinese as "ying", is pronounced in Japanese as "ei" (as in "eight"). And "guo" (as in "country") is "koku". So Chinese "Yingguo" converts to "Eikoku" in Japanese. I will spare you details such as the tonal details associated with Chinese and the divergent ways of writing the corresponding characters between classical and modern Chinese, and Japanese.

However it would be prudent to mention that Japanese and Chinese are completely unrelated. Oh, I mentioned that already. Well, that has another interesting side-effect: whereas China in general associates one pronunciation per character (e.g. the aforementioned "ying" can only ever be pronounced as "ying", Japan has ended up with two - the derived Chinese pronunciation ("ei") and the native Japanese pronunciation ("hide", as in the name of Japanese wartime Prime Minister Tojo Hideki).

But let's not mention the war - astute readers will probably have surmised that the "Ei" in "Eigatani" is the heroic Ying. That leaves the "tani" part. But - what of the "ga", I hear you cry? Well, "ga" means "mosquito". Or non-subjective particle. Or picture. Or a whole bunch of other things. Or in place names it's just a filler, generally meaning "of". Tokyo's equivalent of Whitehall - "Kasumigaseki" - literally means "Tollgate of Fog". Explains a lot about modern Japanese politics. I digress. "tani" means "valley". Quite a common placename element in this country dominated by mountains and the lower bits in-between. Though often it's pronounced "ya". I should at this point mention that it's pretty impossible to pronounce many Japanese placenames unless you know how they're pronounced. I digress again. I forget how  "tani / ya" is pronounced in contemporary Chinese, but it has been rendered into Japanese as "koku" in the Chinese-derived pronunciation. (Astute readers still awake may at this point surmise that one Chinese character can have multiple pronunciations in Japanese). So with some poetic license (which is not unknown in Japanese, which is awash with potential for awful puns, and boy does my wife suffer), one could render "Eigatani Tetsudo" as "Eikoku Tetsudo" (the "ga" can be written off as inconsequential), and one could potentially take the "koku" not to mean "tani" ("valley")  but "country"). Which would translate as "British Railway".

So, now do you see why I can legitimately claim to be insane?  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 04:17:40 pm by railsquid, Reason: Correct transliteration of name of Japanese wartime prime minister »
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

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Offline Zogbert Splod

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2015, 03:58:48 pm »
So, now do you see why I can legitimately claim to be insane?  :thumbsup:
:thankyousign: My problem is that I think I understood your explanation!  But I do have the excuse that I come from the Doric region in Scotland where "Fit fit'll fit fit fit?" is a totally legitimate, and grammatically acceptable question. I do consider English to be my second language if ye ken fit i'm spikin' aboot.  Div ye?
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run (trains) in circles..." etc.
There, doesn't that feel better? 
Lovely!

Planning thread:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25873.0

My website: Zog Trains

Run what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
I may appear to be listening to you, but inside my head, I'm playing with my trains.

Online railsquid

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2015, 04:15:33 pm »
So, now do you see why I can legitimately claim to be insane?  :thumbsup:
:thankyousign: My problem is that I think I understood your explanation!  But I do have the excuse that I come from the Doric region in Scotland where "Fit fit'll fit fit fit?" is a totally legitimate, and grammatically acceptable question. I do consider English to be my second language if ye ken fit i'm spikin' aboot.  Div ye?
Is that where the columns come from?
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

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Offline Zogbert Splod

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2015, 04:24:14 pm »
 :laughabovepost: No, the area is not named for the columns nor the columns for the area.  I can wish though.  It's from the Greek and relates to a word implying 'an area of tempestuous weather'.  There are other possible derivations but that one fits pretty well.
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run (trains) in circles..." etc.
There, doesn't that feel better? 
Lovely!

Planning thread:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25873.0

My website: Zog Trains

Run what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
I may appear to be listening to you, but inside my head, I'm playing with my trains.

Online railsquid

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2015, 04:31:21 pm »
:laughabovepost: No, the area is not named for the columns nor the columns for the area.  I can wish though.  It's from the Greek and relates to a word implying 'an area of tempestuous weather'.  There are other possible derivations but that one fits pretty well.

It's all Greek to me. To quote Wikipedia,

Quote
The word "Doric" wis uised tae ettle aw dialects o Scots as a jocular reference tae the Dorian dialect o Greek. The Greek Dorians bade in Sparta, a mair rural airt o Greece, an wis supposed tae hae spak laconically bi the ither ancient Greeks, uisin a wey o spikkin that was thocht harsher in soond an mair auld farrant than the Attic spaken in Athens. Doric Greek wis uised for the verses spaken bi the chorus in Greek tragedy.

Uiss o the word "Doric" in this wey micht areese forby oot o a contrast wi the anglifeed claik o the Scots caipital, sin at ae time, Edinburgh wis bynamed 'The Athens o the North'. The upper/middle claiss wey o spikkin in Edinburgh wad thus be 'Attic', makkin the rural airts' claik, 'Doric'.

Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

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Offline Zogbert Splod

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2015, 04:39:35 pm »
Quote
The word "Doric" wis uised tae ettle aw dialects o Scots as a jocular reference tae the Dorian dialect o Greek. The Greek Dorians bade in Sparta, a mair rural airt o Greece, an wis supposed tae hae spak laconically bi the ither ancient Greeks, uisin a wey o spikkin that was thocht harsher in soond an mair auld farrant than the Attic spaken in Athens. Doric Greek wis uised for the verses spaken bi the chorus in Greek tragedy.

Uiss o the word "Doric" in this wey micht areese forby oot o a contrast wi the anglifeed claik o the Scots caipital, sin at ae time, Edinburgh wis bynamed 'The Athens o the North'. The upper/middle claiss wey o spikkin in Edinburgh wad thus be 'Attic', makkin the rural airts' claik, 'Doric'.
Those are two of the alternative derivations that I mentioned, yes.  I can't help thinking that they are a little convoluted however.  But as you say, it's all Greek...  I divna' ken loon!!!
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run (trains) in circles..." etc.
There, doesn't that feel better? 
Lovely!

Planning thread:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25873.0

My website: Zog Trains

Run what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
I may appear to be listening to you, but inside my head, I'm playing with my trains.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2015, 04:57:47 pm »
 :sleep: :whiteflag: :stop:

Offline Zogbert Splod

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2015, 05:59:16 pm »
:sleep: :whiteflag: :stop:
O'wer muckle trachle fur ye is't mannie? A' richt, a'll haud my weisht! :-X
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run (trains) in circles..." etc.
There, doesn't that feel better? 
Lovely!

Planning thread:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25873.0

My website: Zog Trains

Run what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
I may appear to be listening to you, but inside my head, I'm playing with my trains.

Online Lawrence

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2015, 08:41:46 pm »
There was me thinking Igirisu no was British, probably a different phrasing, but at least I now now you are definitely on the borderline between genius and insanity, mind which way you step  ;D

Zogbert, as a mere Fifer I at least understood most of your comments, your type are weel kent doon here lad  ;)

Offline Zogbert Splod

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2015, 09:29:34 pm »
Zogbert, as a mere Fifer I at least understood most of your comments, your type are weel kent doon here lad  ;)
I spent a few of my formative years in the Kingdom my self Lawrence.  I was a RAF brat.  Leuchers was well known to me.  I believe it's now an Army establishment although I can't imagine what they will do with all those miles of runway.

Regards, Allan.....
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 09:31:14 pm by Zogbert Splod »
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run (trains) in circles..." etc.
There, doesn't that feel better? 
Lovely!

Planning thread:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25873.0

My website: Zog Trains

Run what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
I may appear to be listening to you, but inside my head, I'm playing with my trains.

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2015, 09:44:11 pm »
:
[/quote]
O'wer muckle trachle fur ye is't mannie? A' richt, a'll haud my weisht! :-X
[/quote]


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Offline Zogbert Splod

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2015, 09:56:32 pm »
Quote
O'wer muckle trachle fur ye is't mannie? A' richt, a'll haud my weisht! :-X
Very well, sub-titles it is:
Dorric:   O'wer muckle trachle fur ye is't mannie? A' richt, a'll haud my weisht!
English: Do you find it overly troubling Sir?         Very well, I shall say no more!

Hope that helps.....
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run (trains) in circles..." etc.
There, doesn't that feel better? 
Lovely!

Planning thread:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25873.0

My website: Zog Trains

Run what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law
I may appear to be listening to you, but inside my head, I'm playing with my trains.

Offline MalcolmInN

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2015, 10:04:52 pm »
a'll haud my weisht!
We used to say that and we wuz brung up in Carlisle !

Does the Board support subtitles??
:laughabovepost:

or even "well I'm sorry I spoke !" with a snif of the nose, after having been scolded for something previously said which turned out to have been unwelcome.
Mind u, we never wrote it, only said it, so a wudnea ov known how to spell it !
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 10:14:18 pm by MalcolmAL »

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Re: Eigatani Tetsudo
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2015, 11:06:08 pm »
There was me thinking Igirisu no was British, probably a different phrasing, but at least I now now you are definitely on the borderline between genius and insanity, mind which way you step  ;D

Igirisu is indeed the other way of writing "Britain", in the katakana syllabary used, among other things, for rendering words from foreign parts. Igirisu being a corruption of "England" or "English". However if one were to insert a theoretical space (Japanese does not use spaces between words) between the "Igi" and the "risu", it would mean "Dignity squirrel".
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands

 

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