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Poll

Would you buy a crowd-funded Class 116/117/118 DMU?

Yes, at least 1 Class 116
5 (5.1%)
Yes, at least 1 Class 117
15 (15.3%)
Yes, at least 1 Class 118
4 (4.1%)
Yes, at least 1 - it doesn't matter which of the three classes.
27 (27.6%)
Yes, at least 2 different classes
13 (13.3%)
Yes, at least one of each class
6 (6.1%)
No, I wouldn't want any of those.
28 (28.6%)

Total Members Voted: 96

Author Topic: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU  (Read 17527 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2015, 01:46:42 pm »
Did these ever make it as far south as Plymouth?

Yup, the 118s were widely used in the south-west. Plymouth was their home turf.

Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Zunnan

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2015, 01:48:20 pm »
The 117s certainly worked Cornwall until they were displaced by Sprinters in the '80s, which is when we got them en masse working my local line. Laira certainly had an allocation of class 117 and 118 units. I think they tried replacing them with Pacers at first but the 142s proved so bad that instead they were farmed off and the first gens were retained for a while longer.
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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2015, 01:58:48 pm »
That'll do for me then ? anyone want five Green 108's ? :)



Offline Karhedron

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2015, 02:12:18 pm »
Thought it might be useful to give people an idea of the relative class sizes and allocations.

Class 116 (Derby)
108 units (2 and 3-car sets)
Mainly operated in the Birmingham and South Wales areas.

Class 117 (Pressed Steel)
42 units (2 and 3-car sets)
Mainly operated in the Thames Valley.

Class 118 (BRC&W)
15 units (2 and 3-car sets)
Mainly operated in the Bristol and South West areas.

It is worth noting that all 3 classes tended to migrate from their originally assigned areas, particularly by the 80s when they started getting displaced by Sprinters.

I have checked and Zunnan is right about the similarity between the 117s and 118s. They were essentially built to the same design but by different contractors (Pressed Steel and BRC&W respectively). It might be possible to cover detail differences in the tooling.

Even if not, you could almost make a 118 power-twin simply by dropping the centre trailer from a 117.

In the '70s some class 116 cars were converted for parcels use, running with GUVs sandwiched between 2 power cars. They were classified as class 130 during this time.



« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 02:21:11 pm by Karhedron »
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 02:27:53 pm »
Do you think there are 1000 modellers to buy one?

I thought I would chip in on this. The Class 117/118 was single highest polling N Gauge entry on the RMWeb 2014 poll with 106 votes (over 50% more than the Pendolino ;)). I can't think of a better indicator of potential sales.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2015, 02:41:00 pm »
I think the rapidity of the take up of the polling re-inforces that. It's a strong contender!

Offline Zunnan

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2015, 03:22:17 pm »
Quote from: Karhedron
I have checked and Zunnan is right about the similarity between the 117s and 118s. They were essentially built to the same design but by different contractors (Pressed Steel and BRC&W respectively). It might be possible to cover detail differences in the tooling.

Looking a bit more closely at them, body wise the 116/117/118 DMS/DMBS are all possible from two body tools. The 116 is the Derby build and the others are contractor built all to the same basic design although with differences in the power train, but even then a good number wound up with the same power unit as other classes...some wound up with different engines on the same power car! With this potential minefield, and a pretty similar layout across the classes, I'd think a single power unit chassis would be the safest bet to cover them all. This leaves the only major differences all in the cab roof, which if done in the same way as the 121/122 makes the three classes possible from minimal tooling. With 3 body tools and one chassis you could cover the 116-118 DMS and DMBS and class 115 DMBS with its much reduced guards compartment. This does require a different set of roofs for each class, but if the groundwork is done on one set of power cars the rest should come with just a new roof being tooled. Trailers should be fairly interchangeable between them, two toolings (TS and TCL) should really cover most bases.

I'll correct myself and apologise at this point too. Re-reading my diary I noticed that our local sets were generally class 115, 116 or 117 or hybrids thereof, but the regular 4 car units were actually formed from a 116 DMS, 116 TS, 127 TSL and 115 DMBS. It was the difference between the TSL and TCL that I noted, I did think it strange at the time of posting and have referred back to the kodak slides and notes my uncle took to double check so I'll go back and change that initial post to get rid of any confusion.
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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2015, 03:34:48 pm »
You have to remember though, they would need to produce about 1000 units give or take with each tool, therefore I think three tools is unfortunately unrealistic...I think as a collective we should press forward with just one Class of WR DMU (ie the one which we find is most popular) and various liveries and numbering to suit WR and BIRMINGHAM etc..

My reasoning :-
A) for it to be cost effective to a manufacturer to keep the tooling
B) To ensure the 1000 unit mark is reached

Everyone can wish and speculate but if the number of deposits doesn't meet the requirements in the end then nothing would come of it.  Thus channel all into the one Class eg the 118
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 03:49:05 pm by Only Me »



Offline Zunnan

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2015, 04:10:06 pm »
Don't forget, the 117 was produced in 00 by Lima and sold by the thousands even though they only ever tooled two of the three vehicles. It was in the catalogue for years and only stopped production through sacrificing the tooling to make their class 121.

I would say that if only one unit were to be produced, the 118 is probably the wrong choice as it carried the fewest livery variations as well as being the smaller class by some margin. If it were down to livery choice I'd side with the 117, but sheer class size and geographical spread goes to the 116. And if the 116 were produced the roof modification to convert to a 117 is relatively simple. I'd side with them being sold as power twin sets too, with the trailers separately available. How many preservation railways use ex-DMU trailers? There is a market for these as a stand alone item.

The roof variants is simple enough, Dapol managed it with their 121/122. It may even be possible to do in the same manner as Bachmann did with their 108, in which case the variables across the three classes can be covered with one basic tool for each vehicle and slides for the cab roof. You could even possibly do it by moulding the basic shell with a slot above the cab into which you plug the class specific destination blind/route indicator box moulding. This moulding could be provided separately with each unit on a sprue made from a translucent material and decorated with different destinations/routes for the buyer to fit (how often do we hear people wanting to know how to change the destination blinds in models?).
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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2015, 04:23:55 pm »
Now that last bit is a super idea!



Offline Portpatrick

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2015, 04:49:56 pm »
I would not buy a 116/7/8.  however looking at units which ran in Scotland, the Cravens 105 would be very nice.  My BHE kit has not come out that well.  And it was quite widely used.  For one pure Scottish, I think, the Gloucester C & W Class 100.

Offline StufromEGDL

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2015, 05:29:17 pm »
117s did run in Scotland in Regional Railways livery before mass Sprinterisation. I think a few 116 vehicles also made it north after the great Ayr dmu depot fire....

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« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 06:04:44 pm by Only Me »



Offline Plainline.

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2015, 06:09:02 pm »
A Gloucester 100 and a Cravens 105 would certainly get my interest!

Offline DJM Dave

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Re: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Class 116/117/118 DMU
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2015, 06:16:42 pm »
Hi everyone,

Before speculation and suggestion regarding Kernow's laser scan of their 3 car DMU 116/117/118 goes any further, I think it's only fair to say that their cad/cam is already spoken for, for 'other parties' and other gauges than OO gauge.

I can say no more than that, sorry.

Cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

 

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