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Poll

N gauge Pendolino

Yes I'd invest in a crowd sourcing venture for a 9 car N gauge Pendolino
62 (36.7%)
No I wouldn't
76 (45%)
I have voted on the RMWeb poll so cannot vote here
31 (18.3%)

Total Members Voted: 167

Author Topic: Pendolino - a new approach  (Read 269882 times)

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Offline Only Me

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2730 on: July 16, 2018, 09:34:02 pm »
To bring some level headedness into this thread i have been waiting 12 weeks for BMW to replace a faulty seat on a 14month old car...



Offline Lindi

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2731 on: July 17, 2018, 01:11:25 am »
On the P&P refunds - you are right we haven't worked out the best way to do that but as I have previously said to you, we will sort it out.

No you haven't. I've had no communication from you since I advised you of the £11 cost or even acknowledgment that you had received the email.

The only communication was when you initially said in an email "If you let us know the cost of sending it back to us then we will refund your costs." Nothing about that you hadn't even worked out about how you was going to refund customers.

£11 might not be much to you, but for people who have to live week by week with finances it's a lot.

Offline njee20

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2732 on: July 17, 2018, 05:48:42 am »
Without wanting to wade in, you’ve just spent £600+ on a couple of toy trains, I think you’ve surrendered all right to the ‘week by week’ finance argument!

Offline trkilliman

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2733 on: July 17, 2018, 08:01:56 am »
In today's increasingly divided society there will be people who won't batt an eyelid at £600 + toy trains, whilst others will have their jaw drop over the price. However, whether you pay £600 or £60 if it's not running as it should you want it sorted with the minimum of fuss.

It's often said that a company can be judged by it's after sales response/performance when things go wrong. Some years back I had a problem with a Bosch power tool still under guarantee. A phone call to a U.K. Freephone number had it sorted within 3 days. They arranged collection from my home and delivered a brand new replacement to me with a few freebies and an apology. I awarded them 11/10 and wrote to the Woodworker magazine with the story. Of course Bosch are a HUGE company and it's only right that they have such customer service.

Back to the Pendolino, it is indeed unfortunate that gliches have happened. It's a small venture and this situation should serve as a learning curve for the future. Maybe they need cutting a bit of slack in this instance?

Personally I had expressed an interest with a crowdfunder in two steam locos. As the lead in time became more protracted with spells of no updates, I became a bit concerned. I started to think about after sales service and spares. Eventually I withdrew my expression of interest. I may or may not regret my decision...time will tell.

Offline Steven B

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2734 on: July 17, 2018, 08:46:36 am »
There's clearly a small (but vocal) minority that aren't happy with their models. This is little different to anything new from Farish or Dapol.

There appears to be two issues:

The service engineer, Simon has other jobs to worry about too - perhaps Rapido need to take on another UK based service engineer; I can't see it being a full time position, but one that is quiet busy when a new model is released.

There's an apparent lack of communication with emails going missing etc. There's no 100% foolproof way of proving an email was sent anymore than there is of proving it was received and read.

Perhaps Ben and Mike need to add a service ticket system to the website; Customers raise a fault with a model which is then passed to the correct service person (I'm guessing faulty class B tanks won't got to Simon as they're not a Rapido product). It should be a simple way of tracking a model, reported, posted, arrived, problem identified, parts allocated, repair done, tested, posted back.


Steven B.

Offline njee20

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2735 on: July 17, 2018, 08:54:37 am »
In today's increasingly divided society there will be people who won't batt an eyelid at £600 + toy trains, whilst others will have their jaw drop over the price. However, whether you pay £600 or £60 if it's not running as it should you want it sorted with the minimum of fuss

Totally agree, and I wholly understand the frustrations shared by a few about long resolution times. I'm sure Ben and Mike are equally dissatisfied and will do what they can to improve things, although I think Ben's point that Simon is Rapido's repair agent is very pertinent, and we'd be in the same position were this a model produced by Rapido themselves or any other partner. Again, not that that helps the people who need units replacing/repairing, who are not unreasonable to expect communication at least, even if that communication is "I'm sorry, I've got a long backlog but I'll get to it ASAP".

My point was more that Lindi was playing the "this £11 could make all the difference to someone", I don't think that's fair given what we're talking about.

Offline Lindi

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2736 on: July 17, 2018, 09:53:14 am »
Without wanting to wade in, you’ve just spent £600+ on a couple of toy trains, I think you’ve surrendered all right to the ‘week by week’ finance argument!

No I didn't. They were purchased for me. Just being augmentative again because you can be! Maybe you should try living on benefits!


My point was more that Lindi was playing the "this £11 could make all the difference to someone", I don't think that's fair given what we're talking about.


No playing. Hard facts of life!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 09:57:36 am by Lindi »

Offline ColinH

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2737 on: July 17, 2018, 10:17:13 am »


Totally agree, and I wholly understand the frustrations shared by a few about long resolution times. I'm sure Ben and Mike are equally dissatisfied and will do what they can to improve things, although I think Ben's point that Simon is Rapido's repair agent is very pertinent, and we'd be in the same position were this a model produced by Rapido themselves or any other partner. Again, not that that helps the people who need units replacing/repairing, who are not unreasonable to expect communication at least, even if that communication is "I'm sorry, I've got a long backlog but I'll get to it ASAP".


As far as I recall this is in fact a Rapido model as Ben admits. The crowdfunding/kickstarter failed to reach the required level of interest and Rapido decided to proceed and allow those expressing an interest to 'buy in' at the original price. RevolutioN took on the crowdfunding aspect of the scheme when DJM first suggested the model and subsequently dumped DJM for Rapido as the latter were prepared to proceed with a lower (800) model limit - which was not met in the required time scale . Would we be discussing this at all if Rapido had decided that there was insufficient interest or to manufacture but increased the price for those who had expressed an interest.


Hi Mick,

Thanks for your kind words re our efforts in bringing this to market.

But regarding repairs, in practical terms, as retailers, what are we to do?  This is a Rapido model and their repairs guy is the only person they have authorised to carry out repair work.  When your model is fixed by Simon (as it will be) then you will receive with it paperwork confirming that the warranty is still in place.

It is standard practice in all industries for only authorised repair agents to carry out warranty repairs. 

Please remember that this is our first powered model and we are on a learning curve.  And if you took your model into a model shop then wouldn't they just send it back to the authorised repairer rather than tinker with it themselves?

I am really sorry that some of these repairs are taking longer than people would like, but we are not in any way hiding away, we are responding to the four people who have come forward with ongoing issues and I do not agree with your view that "communication and obfuscation has been pretty dire."

Cheers

Ben A.

So RevolutioN are nothing more than a UK distributor for Rapido in this instance, and as such it is their responsibility to ensure that the customer gets the model they have paid for and that is fit for purpose. It is no different to one of Kernow Models, or any other, commissioned products. How many threads are there on here that urge us to send/take faulty models back to the shop we bought it from as under trading law it is their responsibility to ensure the goods they sell are of the right quality.

What RevolutioN has to do is the same as any other business supplying goods or services and that is to supply a product fit for purpose or sort it out. There are plenty of traders on here, some doing it in their spare time, who might be able to give you some pointers.

Perhaps everyone who is unhappy with their model should send it back to RevolutioN by registered mail and demand a replacement/repair or their money back. It is then up to RevolutioN to facilitate the remedy as they see fit, just as any model shop on the High Street or any of the online traders would do. OK so you would not have the model to run on your layout but you are not running any way because it is not able to be run.

Like it or not RevolutioN is a business and pleading that we are doing this in our 'spare time' which we spread thinly across all our other interests and we are doing it on the cheap to keep the costs down for you the purchaser is really not a good business model. If Ben and Mike are really serious about making this an ongoing success with further models they need to look again at the back office systems and factor any costs into the price of the proposed model, including the costs of systems that will allow them to pay HM govt. any cut that they demand. Bet they wont take too kindly to being told we haven't worked out how to pay you yet.
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Offline njee20

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2738 on: July 17, 2018, 10:33:09 am »
Not sure why you're quoting my post Colin, the stuff about DJM and crowdfunding is irrelevant, and I think you're mixed up anyway. Ben and Mike proposed the model, Dave was going to produce it but then it was changed to Rapido. Dave wasn't the proposer. I don't understand your point that we wouldn't be discussing this at all if Rapido hadn't progressed despite not meeting the crowdfunding targets - are you implying that people should be happy to have models and should just shut up? That seems at conflict with everything else you're saying?

People could send models to Ben and Mike if they want, but they're not the repair agent, that's Simon, so it's a fruitless exercise.

Of course people can return models and demand refunds, but I suspect people want the models, so that would be cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. I imagine that would be a far easier outcome for Ben and Mike though!

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2739 on: July 17, 2018, 10:36:18 am »
Folks

People's personal circumstances are just that - personal.  None of us know the situations that an individual is in (we don't need to but nor should we be expected to).

I was thinking about P&P refunds whilst packing light bar screws last night when the blindingly obvious hit me that I can refund against the completed order. So I've done that.

Cheers, Mike



Offline Lindi

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2740 on: July 17, 2018, 10:38:32 am »
People could send models to Ben and Mike if they want, but they're not the repair agent, that's Simon, so it's a fruitless exercise.

No it wouldn't be. The contract to purchase the item is with Revolution Trains not Rapido. It would be up to Ben/Mike to then forward the model onto Rapido for repair or provide a full refund including postage costs.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 10:41:06 am by Lindi »

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2741 on: July 17, 2018, 10:51:13 am »
So RevolutioN are nothing more than a UK distributor for Rapido in this instance, and as such it is their responsibility to ensure that the customer gets the model they have paid for and that is fit for purpose. It is no different to one of Kernow Models, or any other, commissioned products. How many threads are there on here that urge us to send/take faulty models back to the shop we bought it from as under trading law it is their responsibility to ensure the goods they sell are of the right quality.

What RevolutioN has to do is the same as any other business supplying goods or services and that is to supply a product fit for purpose or sort it out. There are plenty of traders on here, some doing it in their spare time, who might be able to give you some pointers.

Perhaps everyone who is unhappy with their model should send it back to RevolutioN by registered mail and demand a replacement/repair or their money back. It is then up to RevolutioN to facilitate the remedy as they see fit, just as any model shop on the High Street or any of the online traders would do. OK so you would not have the model to run on your layout but you are not running any way because it is not able to be run.

Like it or not RevolutioN is a business and pleading that we are doing this in our 'spare time' which we spread thinly across all our other interests and we are doing it on the cheap to keep the costs down for you the purchaser is really not a good business model. If Ben and Mike are really serious about making this an ongoing success with further models they need to look again at the back office systems and factor any costs into the price of the proposed model, including the costs of systems that will allow them to pay HM govt. any cut that they demand. Bet they wont take too kindly to being told we haven't worked out how to pay you yet.

Correct and that is exactly what is happening - we have been very clear that we will fulfil our responsibilities to all our customers. We have had a few people whose circumstances have changed and asked for a refund (which we have given them) and we've had a few people (and it is a few) who have had problems with their models which are being repaired (or replaced) where necessary. It is clear that has not happened as quickly as any one would have liked for reasons previously discussed.

The only point I would slightly disagree with you on is essentially the point that I raised as a question earlier ie factor in the cost of back office systems and support - two comments/questions:
- how could we have known that when offering the Pendolino?
- what price are people willing to pay for that?

Cheers, Mike



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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2742 on: July 17, 2018, 11:11:37 am »
People could send models to Ben and Mike if they want, but they're not the repair agent, that's Simon, so it's a fruitless exercise.

No it wouldn't be. The contract to purchase the item is with Revolution Trains not Rapido. It would be up to Ben/Mike to then forward the model onto Rapido for repair or provide a full refund including postage costs.

Of course, like I said, but that just adds to the delays. Rapido have a nominated service agent just like Dapol with DCC Supplies.

I'll stop posting now, you seem to be spoiling for a fight, I get it's an emotive and no doubt immensely frustrating issue, and hope it all gets sorted.

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2743 on: July 17, 2018, 11:15:41 am »
njee20, the way I'm reading this is that you never ordered one?

So why wade into it?
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Offline Lindi

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2744 on: July 17, 2018, 11:17:23 am »
People could send models to Ben and Mike if they want, but they're not the repair agent, that's Simon, so it's a fruitless exercise.

No it wouldn't be. The contract to purchase the item is with Revolution Trains not Rapido. It would be up to Ben/Mike to then forward the model onto Rapido for repair or provide a full refund including postage costs.

Of course, like I said, but that just adds to the delays. Rapido have a nominated service agent just like Dapol with DCC Supplies.

I'll stop posting now, you seem to be spoiling for a fight, I get it's an emotive and no doubt immensely frustrating issue, and hope it all gets sorted.

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