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Poll

N gauge Pendolino

Yes I'd invest in a crowd sourcing venture for a 9 car N gauge Pendolino
62 (36.3%)
No I wouldn't
78 (45.6%)
I have voted on the RMWeb poll so cannot vote here
31 (18.1%)

Total Members Voted: 169

Author Topic: Pendolino - a new approach  (Read 283852 times)

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Offline Barrydebs

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2415 on: April 26, 2018, 10:11:40 am »
Is it only ESU chips that learn or all of them?

Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2416 on: April 26, 2018, 10:13:42 am »
Is it only ESU chips that learn or all of them?

Its a feature of ESU chips

Offline Barrydebs

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2417 on: April 26, 2018, 10:16:44 am »
Thankyou

Offline hsthero

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2418 on: April 26, 2018, 12:16:32 pm »
My orders for 11 car CoL and CoB sets are still "processing" on the website. Every time I hear a van pull up my heart skips a beat. I hope that they are not at the bottom of the pile!

One of my sets will have sound and the other is DC.  At some point I would like to convert the DC one to sound. As I will run the sets short (7 car) will I need to buy two sound chips or can I manage with one and a standard chip in the second power car?

If I did this would the second power car move off before the sound fitted power car moves causing possible derailments?

Colin

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2419 on: April 26, 2018, 12:28:54 pm »
At some point I would like to convert the DC one to sound. As I will run the sets short (7 car) will I need to buy two sound chips or can I manage with one and a standard chip in the second power car?

If I did this would the second power car move off before the sound fitted power car moves causing possible derailments?

Colin

Oo-er. I never thought of that scenario. Good question. :hmmm:

Offline georgehgv

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2420 on: April 26, 2018, 12:30:15 pm »
At some point I would like to convert the DC one to sound. As I will run the sets short (7 car) will I need to buy two sound chips or can I manage with one and a standard chip in the second power car?

If I did this would the second power car move off before the sound fitted power car moves causing possible derailments?

Colin

Oo-er. I never thought of that scenario. Good question. :hmmm:

You got yours yet Mick?
Geominster was my first project which has now been dismantled.

Having learnt so much from Geominster this is the new project.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30850.0

The original layout progress here
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18319.msg184399#msg184399

Visit my new website here
http://georgehgv.wix.com/geominster

Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2421 on: April 26, 2018, 12:31:42 pm »
At some point I would like to convert the DC one to sound. As I will run the sets short (7 car) will I need to buy two sound chips or can I manage with one and a standard chip in the second power car?

If I did this would the second power car move off before the sound fitted power car moves causing possible derailments?

Colin

Oo-er. I never thought of that scenario. Good question. :hmmm:

The simple answer is they would move off at different times.  You do need identical, identically configured chips.

Offline Only Me

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2422 on: April 26, 2018, 12:55:31 pm »
My orders for 11 car CoL and CoB sets are still "processing" on the website. Every time I hear a van pull up my heart skips a beat. I hope that they are not at the bottom of the pile!

One of my sets will have sound and the other is DC.  At some point I would like to convert the DC one to sound. As I will run the sets short (7 car) will I need to buy two sound chips or can I manage with one and a standard chip in the second power car?

If I did this would the second power car move off before the sound fitted power car moves causing possible derailments?

Colin

If you ever want a hand sorting this out, I'm only down the road!...in Letchworth



Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2423 on: April 26, 2018, 12:57:01 pm »
At some point I would like to convert the DC one to sound. As I will run the sets short (7 car) will I need to buy two sound chips or can I manage with one and a standard chip in the second power car?

If I did this would the second power car move off before the sound fitted power car moves causing possible derailments?

Colin

Oo-er. I never thought of that scenario. Good question. :hmmm:

The simple answer is they would move off at different times.  You do need identical, identically configured chips.

In the deep dark realms of DCC you wouldnt need identical chips, you would need to speed match them though, with CV settings 2-6 and then set the momentum the same... That being said a cheap crappy chip and a sound chip you would struggle to get any linear coherence... Id go for a lenz silver mini in the non sound end and a zimo mx649R ?(or Legoman can sell you a loksound select (like the pendos have)) if doing it yourself.

No you are missing the point.  the sound chip has a start up sequence and the non sound chip does not.  So the non sound chip would try to get one power car moving 20-30 seconds before the Sound chip moves the other car.  Speed matching is secondary if you entire train derails when the rear power car pushes and the front car stands still.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 12:58:25 pm by Snowwolflair »

Offline PaulCheffus

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2424 on: April 26, 2018, 01:22:21 pm »
Hi

Sorry @Only Me but you are wrong. With sound on the train does not start immediately so if you had a sound decoder and a non sound decoder then the non sound decoder would move before the sound one.

If you have a sound fitted Pendolino switch the sound off and start the train you will notice it moves immediately. With the sound switched on there is a pause before it moves off.

Cheers

Paul

Offline Snowwolflair

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2425 on: April 26, 2018, 01:25:16 pm »
What you are suggesting is to change the characteristics of the sound chip, degrading its performance, so what is the point. 

The way to make the change is to add delays to the non sound decoder to allow the sound sequence to play out correctly.  But I know you will realize the problem is that there are several of these sound sequences with different delay effects and a no sound chip will not be able to be programmed to match them all.

Offline Only Me

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2426 on: April 26, 2018, 01:29:58 pm »
Sorry Gentlemen let me try again as I believe I may have rambled on and not been completely clear....misreading what you were trying to achieve

CV3 and CV4 on a normal chip could be matched to that of the sound chip in order to make it accelerate in the same manner that the sound chip does, I stand corrected as I read the original message wrong... I think (CV128? Bit 3) on a loksound controls the acceleration of the loco after the initial sound piece has played, you could fiddle with that if you wanted to try and get some sort of synchronisation.. I've not tired or put an acceleration delay into the non sound chip which is said above.

So following on, on your non sound chip you could set your own speed to curve to maybe do nothing on steps 1-10 (out of 128) and then set cv3 so that steps 1-10 matched that of the delay in  the sound chip startup sequence, when step 11 kicks in if time matched to the pendo sound chip they should potentially start to accelerate at the same time...then you modify the rest of the speed steps to match the pendolino settings

Much simpler though to just spend the extra 30-40 buying a sound chip though from Legoman Biffo.. than a high quality non sound chip..
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 01:43:27 pm by Only Me »



Offline hsthero

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2427 on: April 26, 2018, 02:41:41 pm »
Thanks for your replies. From what has been said I think I'll wait until they both arrive, see how the sound fitted set performs, then decide what to do.

Thanks for offer of help @Only Me. I'll be in touch if I need to.

Offline NewbieN

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2428 on: April 26, 2018, 11:44:27 pm »
Just picked mine up today, it is a thing of beauty, really pleased with it and can't wait to get it running.

Just a quick question - I ordered the Virgin Hero 11 car set (Poppylino), the British Royal Legion logos that appear on the side and the Poppy motif that is on the front of the unit is only on one power car - is this correct or should both power cars have the logos on them?

Hi NewbieN,

Apologies, only just seen this.  Yes, there should be logos on both power cars.  Which car is it that's missing the logos?  A or K?  And what is the unit number on the side... It may be you have the wrong power car in your set, rather than the right power car without logos....

Either way, we will sort you out once all the models have been sent out.

Cheers

Ben A.

Hi Ben - thank you, I have just sent you a PM with the details.

Many Thanks.

Offline njee20

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2429 on: April 27, 2018, 12:16:58 pm »
Finally got the chance to stick one on the layout, marvellous! Not a model to take on and off constantly though, eh!?

Looks great, couple of small issues on one of mine (not had the other one out of the box), a couple of the first class table lamps (which look superb) are twisted through 90 degrees, will get around to removing the body and resolving that, and on one coach one of the 'retaining' lugs from the chassis was actually outside the body, which in turn meant the body/chassis were offset by a few degrees, which was causing the leading bogie of the following coach to derail on points. Took far too long to work out that was the cause given how obvious it was when I spotted it!

They look superb though, run really nicely, certainly highlight my dodgy track laying in places! They go rather fast, I never run anything near top speed, but I fear it would end horribly if I tried with these!

 

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