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Poll

N gauge Pendolino

Yes I'd invest in a crowd sourcing venture for a 9 car N gauge Pendolino
62 (36.3%)
No I wouldn't
78 (45.6%)
I have voted on the RMWeb poll so cannot vote here
31 (18.1%)

Total Members Voted: 169

Author Topic: Pendolino - a new approach  (Read 287108 times)

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Offline Ben A

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #150 on: November 08, 2014, 12:16:20 pm »

Hello all,

I'd just like to thank Dave for all the work he put in to this project, and his good grace and professionalism in the circumstances.

The N Gauge Pendolino, if we generate adequate backing, will now be produced by Rapido trains of Canada.  They're becoming well known to British modellers as they are entering the OO market with a model of the iconic APT-E train.

The APT-E was, in some ways, the forerunner of the Pendolino as the tilt technology was handed down, and for Rapido's entry into the British N gauge market, where maybe the APT-E makes a little less sense, the Pendolino is a good fit.

Rapido are an exciting, established and well-regarded company and we feel that any model produced by them has every chance of equalling the quality we would have been confident of getting from DJM.

The bottom line is that Rapido will produce the model if we can generate 800 pledges, instead of the 1,000 DJM would have needed.  As Kickstarter is an all-or-nothing mechanism, Mike Hale and I feel that we have to go with the option that gives us the best chance of getting over that initial hurdle.

Any questions and Mike and I are happy to answer them, and once again we would like to acknowledge the significant debt we owe to Dave in terms of inspiring this project in the first place.

cheers

Ben A.




Offline PostModN66

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #151 on: November 08, 2014, 12:22:29 pm »
Hi Ben

When and how do we actually "sign" the pledge?

Cheers  Jon  :)
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Offline Ben A

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #152 on: November 08, 2014, 12:37:59 pm »

Hi Jon,

The Kickstarter page will be launching sometime in the next week or two.  Once it does, we will make sure we tell people here!

There are some changes to the rewards too.  We are offering a DCC sound factory-fitted option, which we believe is a first for British N, and the new pledge levels are:

Full 9-car Pendolino £255
Full 9-car Pendolino with sound £350

Short set 5 cars £195
Short set 5 cars with sound £290

2-car add on pack to make 11-car sets £30.

Sets will have powered cars at both ends, and sound versions will have sound units at both ends.  All vehicles will pick up power, and we are investigating the possibility of power transfer between vehicles for smooth running; though probably using magnets, not the plug system used by Arnold on the Brighton Belle.   Other specs as per original plan.

Also, 10 different numbersets will be on offer, and Rapido say they are prepared to be completely flexible about the numbers, so if pledge levels make it appropriate we can number some of the 9-car sets in the 390/1 series to create accurate 11-car formations with the add-on packs.

cheers

Ben A.



Offline Richard G Dallimore

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #153 on: November 08, 2014, 12:53:24 pm »
I see you have dropped the lower tiers which is a a shame as I would have backed for an un-motorised end and coach or 2. This would have looked good displayed as I will not be likely to run one. I think this move is interesting and I wish you success.
Regards
Richard
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Offline Smiffy

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #154 on: November 08, 2014, 07:39:28 pm »
11 car with sound! "Be still my beating wallet"

Offline steam-driven boy

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #155 on: November 09, 2014, 09:15:33 am »
Hi,
I was delighted when Dave Jones became involved in this project, you would have to be very new to the N gauge fraternity not to know of his contribution to the considerable 'raising of the bar' in standards that has come about during his involvement with Dapol, instigating a quality improvement 'war' with Graham Farish that I believe has truly raised British N to levels enjoyed by Continental and US N scalers.
Ben is quite right to acknowledge his "good grace" at this turn of events.  I feel I am already supporting DJ Models with my early pre-orders for the Class 17 twin-set and J94 kettle, and serious interest in some of his announced models for his next introductions, I think Dave will be keeping my wallet cowering in a dark corner for some time to come  :thumbsup:
I am equally delighted to see Rapido Trains take on the role, I have been aware of their status in niche market r-t-r for a while, my first acquisitions being...
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
I also await in the next couple of months a brace of their GMD-1s...
http://rapidotrains.com/gmd1_n.html
...and I would recommend anyone uncertain as to just who 'these guys' are read Mike McGrattan's September Blog...
http://www.rapidotrains.com/blog/
I've been following their involvement with NRM Locomotion on the OO APT-E with some serious  :drool:  :'( as I'd really love one in N, of course  ;)
The reduction in numbers required simply has to be a good thing. Although I have my 'printed' Pendolino still languishing in my 'to do' drawer  :-[ I will certainly be supporting this projecy when it 'kicks-off'  :doh: :D

Regards, Gerry  8)
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Offline Ben A

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #156 on: November 09, 2014, 10:36:52 am »

Hi Gerry,

Just got home from a night shift but decided to read that blog entry before collapsing in a heap - and wow, that is a fascinating article.  I suppose, with the NGS stuff and my writing in Model Rail, I have some insight into the manufacturer's world, but even so I felt that Mike's blog made for an illuminating and absorbing read!

He also makes the point that the last decade or so has been defined by the rise of smaller companies and while I agree, I feel that if we can start to harness the power of crowd-funding, Kickstarter and the internet then the next decade could be defined by individual modellers getting together and simply commissioning what they want.

That's why I would urge anyone to really consider pledging support to our project when it goes live.  I think if this one can succeed - it's a big project, after all - then anything can and the floodgates could open...

Also, while Dave has done a huge amount for British N and has an exciting programme of releases planned (I am looking forward to my two Claytons!) I also think if we can get a company like Rapido to enter British N too it will be good news all round.

cheers

Ben A.



Offline free debt man

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #157 on: November 09, 2014, 11:01:15 am »
I am going to order an 11 car Pendolino because it is modern & will look nice on the club's recently acquired  West Coast layout (Tamworth) even though I am still arguing for OHLE to be installed. There is another problem showed up when myself & Tim were running Choates Lane at the Westbury show yesterday. Choates Lane has two levels: the upper industrial area with British trains at 1/148: 70s, 66s, 60s, & even a 31, & the lower level HS1 line with Eurostars, TGVs, Thalys & ICEs at 1/160 scale. It would be nice if the Pendo was at more correct 1/160 scale then British models could match European & N American models. Especially if Ben & Mike decide to do the  "Javelin" next.
If only........................................... 
Stuart Conlon
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N Gauge Society

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #158 on: November 09, 2014, 01:33:01 pm »
If the Pendolino project is successful, I wonder what the chances of Rapido shriking down APT-E to N would be...?
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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #159 on: November 09, 2014, 02:19:28 pm »
I It would be nice if the Pendo was at more correct 1/160 scale then British models could match European & N American models.
If only...........................................

No, no,.......please lord no...... :doh:

Hopefully you were only joking.....! 

Cheers  Jon  :)
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Offline jpendle

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #160 on: November 09, 2014, 04:25:33 pm »
Going for 800 rather than 1000 pledges was definately the right decision. But now a technical kickstarter question.

If I buy 2 9 car DDC sound sets and 2 x 2 car add ons, is that 2 pledges or 3?

For the same money I could pledge 3 9 car sets without DCC, I really want 2 with DCC but I'm willing to vote tactically to get the project to succeed if I need to!

Also I hope Rapido aren't too Rapido as I now need to invest in a DCC system and lots of chips for all my other stock!

John P

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #161 on: November 09, 2014, 05:00:18 pm »
Hi John

I think technically it counts as one pledge whichever you go for, but what we really need is to sell sets (rather than pledges).

Although that is a very kind thought to consider ordering one more set instead of sound, I would really recommend that people order what they really want!

Personally I think I will go for a 9-car and 11-car set with at least one with sound.  I think £95 for a factory fitted sound set is an absolute steal.

Timelines - we will reveal as the Kickstarter goes live but we are expecting it to compare very favourably with other manufacturers (subject to it all going smoothly of course!).

Cheers, Mike



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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #162 on: November 09, 2014, 05:06:06 pm »
Going for 800 rather than 1000 pledges was definately the right decision. But now a technical kickstarter question.

If I buy 2 9 car DDC sound sets and 2 x 2 car add ons, is that 2 pledges or 3?

For the same money I could pledge 3 9 car sets without DCC, I really want 2 with DCC but I'm willing to vote tactically to get the project to succeed if I need to!

Also I hope Rapido aren't too Rapido as I now need to invest in a DCC system and lots of chips for all my other stock!

John P

It is one pledge as it does not matter how many pledges the project gets it is purely down to reaching the targat amount of cash pledged by the deadline. If you wanted to you could select one unit and up your pledge to what ever level you like. So instead of pledging £255 for one you could say well I really want this to work and up my pledge to £300. I have done this before to help tip projects over and if every one gave an extra £5 it would soon equal another unit and get it closer to the goal.
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Offline jivebunny

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #163 on: November 09, 2014, 06:00:59 pm »
Well this is an unexpected turn of events.

I think careful consideration needs to be given as to how the 390 is marketed from this point onwards, particularly as the Kickstarter campaign will now be supporting a major, established Canadian manufacturer rather than a small UK business, which is not what people were told on the leaflets. Would Fleischmann or Märklin get 800 pre-orders if they announced a business decision to move into British N on the condition that people commit money up front? I'm not sure.

The £95 DCC Sound option seems completely mad counter-productive in the context of a Kickstarter campaign. I may be wrong here, but I would imagine those who have a large enough layout for a full-length 390 will have a fair collection of stock, and I would imagine that more stock you have, the less likely you are to spend £100 on each locomotive / unit adding a sound chip. I have 30-odd locos / units / power cars and the idea of spending over £3000 to fit DCC sound is just completely out of the question. DCC sound doesn't interest me as the cost is prohibitive, particularly in British N where the cost of the chip and speaker is often more than the cost of the locomotive. I suspect I'm not alone in my way of thinking and if, for argument's sake, only two people out of 800 sign up for the sound option, then that's a grand total of £190 you'll have made from dedicating resources, time and money to this particular feature (a feature which you'll have to honour if people have pledged for it).

I It would be nice if the Pendo was at more correct 1/160 scale then British models could match European & N American models.
If only...........................................


No, no,.......please lord no...... :doh:

Hopefully you were only joking.....! 

Cheers  Jon  :)


Indeed! Why would the 390 need to be made to the same scale as continental stock rather than British stock? I can only think of one occasion where a Pendolino was seen alongside a Eurostar (never mind a Thalys, TGV or an ICE!) and that was at Crewe for an open day! Of course a model in 1:160 scale might appeal to people wanting to recreate Alstom delivery trains in north-western Italy or up the eastern half of France, but I think we're talking limited numbers here.

Would make an interesting train though.

JB


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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #164 on: November 09, 2014, 06:53:16 pm »
Ooh..errr....!

That's a great idea - a diesel (or electric) drag option - then there is no excuse for anyone not to have one (unless you model historic railways  ???).

So add in a dummy Colas 66 and barrier wagon to the option pack Ben and Mike!   :sorrysign:

And a dummy "Thunderbird" for Holyhead drags.  :help:

Then the sound chip will have to be able to switch to a diesel sound, at least the front one.

Cheers  Jon  :)

“We must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.” ― Dalai Lama XIV

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