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Author Topic: Kato controller PSU change?  (Read 7533 times)

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Offline RussellH

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2014, 01:30:51 pm »
Mi Malc

Overloads...

KPC use the polyfuse...
http://www.rapidonline.com/Electrical-Power/Fuses-Circuit-Breakers/Resettable-Fuses

AMR use the AN101 overload...
http://www.rapidonline.com/electrical-power/an101-1-0a-circuit-breaker-26-1110

Wonder where gaugemaster get the powersupply for their "combi"...
WALL MOUNTED TRANSFORMER WM1: Input: 220 – 240V AC at 50Hz BS1363 flat pin moulded plug.
Output: 18V AC @ 1.1Amps @ 25 deg C via 2.1 x 10 mm power socket and cable.

Regards
Russ
Repairs - not everything has to be sent away - you can fix most thing's yourself. Ask and help will be provided.

Waiting for the RTR version? - why not try a kit?

My layout, Bridgebury Gate now has its own website...
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Offline Manxrailman

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2014, 01:47:57 pm »
Just had my controller to bits & it has full wave rectification, just as the diagram posted earlier, so apart from a small volts drop, I can't see any benefit in supplying it with AC? Perhaps it's a colonial thing? (Sorry - USA market thing...) Perhaps DC wallwarts aren't common in other countries, hence a 'universal' input requirement of 15 volts either AC or DC, to satisfy all. :hmmm:
Manxrailman

Offline Caz

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2014, 01:55:14 pm »
It looks like the Kato controller has used the existing Digitrax Zephyr shell and knob as it is identical.   ;)

Offline RussellH

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2014, 02:08:31 pm »
Just had my controller to bits & it has full wave rectification, just as the diagram posted earlier, so apart from a small volts drop, I can't see any benefit in supplying it with AC? Perhaps it's a colonial thing? (Sorry - USA market thing...) Perhaps DC wallwarts aren't common in other countries, hence a 'universal' input requirement of 15 volts either AC or DC, to satisfy all. :hmmm:


heres the relevant text from the link Malc supplied...
(http://www.sumidacrossing.org/Musings/files/131222_Kato%20DC%20Power%20Pack.php)

"What’s missing from this circuit is any filtering, so rather than getting a flat DC voltage at the track, you actually get what the scope trace up above shows: a series of pulses from zero to as much as 13.0 volts (peak) that is really the original AC waveform, converted to one polarity. That’s actually good, because at low speeds DC motors run better on “pulsed” power, because the voltage is higher for a given power quantity, which tends to overcome friction in the motor and drivetrain while still producing a low speed once things get turning."

Regards
Russ
Repairs - not everything has to be sent away - you can fix most thing's yourself. Ask and help will be provided.

Waiting for the RTR version? - why not try a kit?

My layout, Bridgebury Gate now has its own website...
http://www.bridgeburygate.co.uk/

and the 3DR shop where you'll also find the NGF MPV, assorted cabs etc...
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/3dr_designs_for_n_gauge

Offline MalcolmInN

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2014, 04:36:55 pm »
Just had my controller to bits
Ther's a brave lad ! :)
Did you happen to note the markings on the transistor and diodes ?
I suspect a typo in the Sumida diagram, I am doubtfull of the BO911 or B0911 and think a BD911 is more probable  ? However, why a european type BD designation would be in a Japanese or USA box I am not sure.

You say "apart from a small volts drop", not wishing to pick nits but compared to 12v or 15v it is a fair percentage ! ;)

Russ > Thanks for the overload links, very interesting wee beasties, and auto-resetting as well, I think they are a bit newer than my electronics :)
The Kato controller though has a mechanical button on it. ( I love having things to press ! )





Offline Manxrailman

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2014, 04:58:43 pm »
Malcolm - yes, 15 down to 12 is not acceptable, what I meant was if either 15 V AC or DC goes into the controller, the difference is only small. The 15 down to 12 is where we came in! Still don't know why they supply a DC PSU if it was designed for AC?

Anyway - mine layout works OK for me with two of the original 15VDC PSUs. It was having one of each that was my problem.  ;)
Manxrailman

Offline dodger

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2014, 06:17:44 pm »
Looking at the schematic supplied by Malcolm AL it is nothing more than an electronic version of the controllers produced by Hornby, Triang and H&M in the 1950's.

As an aside it will work in exactly the same with a 15 VAC or 15 VDC power supply as long as the DC version is not smoothed in all cases the positive output will be DC +ve. The only difference is that it will not be rippled DC if the psu contains a smoothing circuit.

Dodger

Offline ajc

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2014, 02:14:27 pm »
I bought a Kato 40-900 Unitram LRT Starter Set in 2012 and then added a second Kato 22-014 Controller. Both of these controllers came with the A M Transformers Ltd Adaptor Model: AC16-1100 Input: 230VAC 50 Hz Output: 16VAC 1100mA illustrated below

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

This year I have bought a Kato 10-006 Glacier Express Starter Set and a Kato 20-851 M2 Basic Oval with Passing Loop and Controller N Scale Unitrack set. The same Kato 22-014 Controllers were supplied but they came with the Power Pax Adaptor Model: KSAS0151200125HK Input: 100-240V 50/60 Hz 0.4A Output: 12V 1.25A  P/N: SW3090-B  R5013 Adaptor illustrated below

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

As stated in previous posts the performance with the Power Pax Adaptors is about half that with the A M Transformers Adaptors. The Unitrack and Unitram electric points operate with both type of adaptor.

I did contact A M Transformers Ltd to see if I could obtain more of the original adaptors but they referred me to the Kato suppliers.

Have the importers contacted Kato in Japan to complain that the performance of the 22-015 Controllers with the Power Pax adaptor supplied in the UK is unacceptable.
A previous post said Train Trax had referred the matter to Gaugemaster their suppliers but did they received any satisfactory reply? 

Offline Thameswatcher

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2014, 07:58:30 pm »
Hi as of today no satisfactory reply has been received from TrainTrax or the UK Suppliers Gaugemaster
Regards Thameswatcher

Offline Geoff

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2014, 08:25:26 pm »
Has anyone bought another power supply for this controller since the change and if so which one did you get and is it working perfectly now?
Geoff

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2014, 10:22:01 am »
I've used a variety of12-15v wall psu's with kato controllers - noo problems

Also pc psu's
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Offline DesertHound

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2014, 06:14:34 pm »
Evening all

I have just bought an M2 starter set and am having the same problems. I find that from a standing start, I need to apply approx. 3/4 power setting to get a loco moving, at which point it starts abruptly. I can then reduce the power to run it slower, but it just won't move away gradually from standstill, like with my gaugemaster controller.

I'll get on to Gaugemaster and report back. Given that I bought it from them I expect they'll reply.

Oh, I also have the same adaptor as mentioned above: Power Pax Adaptor Model: KSAS0151200125HK Input: 100-240V 50/60 Hz 0.4A Output: 12V 1.25A  P/N: SW3090-B

Cheers

Dan
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Offline martink

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2014, 07:32:05 pm »
I looked up that SW3090 part at http://www.powerpax.co.uk/plugtop-power-supplies and it is a switch-mode DC unit (i.e. it gives a perfectly smooth 12V suitable for delicate electronic appliances). 

From the circuit diagram earlier in this thread, the standard Kato controller is a rudimentary design that can work from both AC or rectified DC (something with 100Hz mains pulses).  It needs those pulses to give decent slow-speed running.  If you feed in pure DC from the SW3090, then you will get exactly the effect you are describing. 

Bluntly, you need an AC plugpack, so you will need to talk to Gaugemaster. 

Offline DesertHound

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2014, 09:09:34 pm »
Thanks martink, very helpful indeed.

I shall get on the case in the next few days and report back to you.

Dan
Visit www.thefarishshed.com for all things Poole Farish and have the confidence to look under the bonnet of your locos!

Offline DesertHound

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Re: Kato controller PSU change?
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2014, 09:52:42 am »
Right, an update for those who are interested.

Plugged in my Gaugemaster WM1 18V (AC/AC) into the Kato controller and it worked a treat. The Power Pax 12V (AC/DC) that I received with the M2 starter set really isn't suitable.

Sent an e-mail to Gaugemaster yesterday morning and received a reply this morning asking for my address and that they'd pop a replacement in the post (told me not to worry about sending the old one back).

So, thumbs up to Gaugemaster for good customer service.  :thumbsup:

I actually told them I'd happily collect said adaptor at a later date, since sending it to the Middle East will cost them as much in postage. Anyhow, left the option with them.

Still waiting to hear their comments on why the Power a Pax isn't suitable (think we know that from here already) but always good to get it from the horse's mouth. Cannot fault them so far though - thanks guys if you are reading!

Cheers

Dan
Visit www.thefarishshed.com for all things Poole Farish and have the confidence to look under the bonnet of your locos!

 

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