!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Modular layout  (Read 18797 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ptopo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2015, 05:15:48 pm »
So, on to the real thing....

A note on points....

Most chaps seem to recommend a bit of oil around the moving parts to prevent gumming up.

The first thing I found was the the peco three way point needs further modification. After painting I noticed that the switch rail had gone dead which was a bit annoying because it had the frogs properly connected so I assumed the frogs feed  the switch rails Turns out  they don't.

What actually happens is that the switch rails are fed by direct contact with the stock (outside) rails. The switch rails are actually independent so therein lies the solution... a small connecting wire linking the stock rail to the track at the heel of each of switch rails works fine - the frog is independent from the switch rails as well you see so one can 'live' the entire point with no fear of shorts. If you're interested in ther details let me know and I will mock up a photo of what I mean.

Sooooo having done that and re set all of the track around them it's just a case of plugging on with the ballasting, being a bit more careful around the point areas. So far so good with test running afterwards... I'll try a base layer of paint next. It's a shade garish right now...



Before going much further some fake wire work, point motors and trunking, not to mention signal box and concrete crossing paths to mask the gap between the modules are need.

Thanks for reading.

PT

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+63)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 29786
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2015, 08:19:48 pm »
I think a diagram of the underside of the 3 way showing what you mean would be very helpful.
 :thankyousign:

Offline ptopo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Modular layou
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2016, 07:26:00 pm »
Here's a 3 way point diagram. Sorry that it is 1) very late and 2) not from underneath as I'd rather selfishly refitted and ballasted the points before reading this thread. :-[

As mentioned the entire switch rail assembly may be constantly connected so it's a bit weird that peco designed it relying on switch rail/stock rail contact. Probably so the risk of shorts with older wheel sets? The frogs are controlled from point motor accessory switches.

The plastic under the rail is cut out and a short length of wire soldered on.

Cheers

PT



« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 09:33:27 pm by ptopo »

Offline ptopo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2016, 09:54:34 pm »
So things have been quite slow and I've finally managed to get a few hours of ballasting in. After a while one gets quite used to it. About 90% is done! just the Depot area had been left as I have to concrete it etc.

The next steps have been to finish the ballasting but before that lay some cable trunking. The straight stuff that ratio sell needs to be cut up and I had a go at distressing it a bit as the real world trunking is all over the place.

There's some dummy point motors and orange cable ducting (wire) laid too.



The other thorny issue is the gap between modules. It needs to be a sharp edge so I tried using grease proof baking paper....



Then using the shadow of the sand on one side to guide the other. The results were OK ish...



Sorry for the blurred picture... End on it looks ok...



With respect to painting: the tracks were already done with 2:1 sleeper grime:rust and the sleepers with a diluted burnt umber to take the shine off. The hope was that the dark colours would shine through the ballast paint....

...this is about 6:1 grey:burnt umber acrylics (standard hobby paint) diluted up 1-2 fold with water and then airbrushed on to the ballast. Not much has been done yet but a quick first go wasn't so bad... Can you tell the bit that's been done yet...?





The sand takes the diluted paint quite nicely so I think it will work out and take the brightness off the sand. Next up will be to spray the rest and apply a darker/rustier shade around the sleepers.

More soon, thanks for looking

PT

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+63)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 29786
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2016, 10:15:56 pm »
Track, ballast and detailing looking very good. I've never seen baseboard joins disguised so you can't see them but yours is a lot better than many layouts I've seen at shows.

Offline ptopo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2016, 05:06:04 pm »
Now fully painted base coat & rust/brake dust on the main through lines (5:1 umber:rust)....







A little stark in places so some softening needed, the goods in painting and the sidings mottled a little.

Happy Easter

PT





Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+63)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 29786
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2016, 05:32:58 pm »
Looks very good :thumbsup:

Offline Chris in Prague

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24400
  • Posts: 11369
  • Country: cz
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2016, 05:42:30 pm »
I think a diagram of the underside of the 3 way showing what you mean would be very helpful.
 :thankyousign:

Seconded, as I have Peco Code 55 three-way point to wire up.

Offline ptopo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2016, 05:58:20 pm »
Sorry, it wasn't very clear - you need to put a wire  the underside connecting the rails where the white thing is on the left and another there the screwdriver head is on the right, this can also be done further down the point iirc.

The two frog areas are controlled by auxiliary switches, the central region (all of the rails connected to the switch rails) have to be fed by the stock rails or bus.

Unlike the normal electro frog the switch rails on the 3 way point are not fed from the frog. The two on the left are isolated from the two on the right so can be live all the time - normally they are connected via contact with the stock rail, which will probably fail the moment they are painted.

Again, I'm really sorry I didn't get a photo of the underside view, I don't get a lot of time to do train stuff.

PT

Offline Chris in Prague

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24400
  • Posts: 11369
  • Country: cz
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2016, 06:01:59 pm »
Thanks for your reply. I do understand about not getting much time to work on your layout and not having an underneath photo. I have bought a Hex Frog Juicer PCB to work with my three-way point. Does that change the wiring requirements you mention, please?

Offline ptopo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2016, 08:29:04 am »
Hi Chris,

I'm not particularly familiar with the hex frog juicer but my understanding is that it essentially auto reverses any section of track. How that fits into the point architecture is outlined below, copied across from my new post in the knowledge bank. Apologies if inaccurate in any way. It's a while since I did this wiring.

PT

Link: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=32502.0

Hi, here's a quickie on the peco three way point and a central issue with its use. The problem is that the switch rails are not powered by the frogs, only by contact with the stock rails and the therefore it is highly prone to failing when painted.

The architecture is as follows.... Apologies for the crude nature of the photos.





FROGS.(red, yellow)- Frogs. These must be powered via switches, point motor accessory switches or by a frog juicer as they are independent of the switch rails (vide infra)

STOCK RAILS (Dark blue, dark green). These can be directly wired to the power supply (DCC bus or standard) or simply powered through fishplate connection to the track.

SWITCH RAILS (light blue/green). This is the part that is really different. In normal electro frog points the entire switch rail is powered from the frog; not in this case. The two sets of switch rails are independent (they have to be) and are powered by contact with the stock rails.

SOLUTION
To guarantee good contact the switching rails need to be hard wired to the power supply. Happily both switch rails in each coloured section are connected therefore one only needs Two wires, not four.

Solutions:
1) connect each stock rail to the relevant switch rail assembly via a wire underneath in the positions marked in pink. This will need a bit of the plastic to be removed. Care needs to be taken as the wire that is lower in the picture (green stock rail->light green switch rail) has to pass under a moving switch rail).

2) wire two addition droppers to the switch rail assembly where the pink lines meet the light blue/green rails.

Hope that helps and hope it's accurate, I wired this about a year ago so have probably forgotten or got one or two of the rails wrongly assigned.

PT
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 08:36:48 am by ptopo »

Offline Chris in Prague

  • Trade Count: (+14)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 24400
  • Posts: 11369
  • Country: cz
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2016, 09:17:17 am »
Many thanks, PT, for your quick and comprehensive reply with excellent annotated pictures. I have made a PDF of this section and will give it to my electrical / electronic expert friend who will be wiring up Cant Cove, in a couple of weeks, I hope.

Offline ptopo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Country: 00
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2016, 08:30:30 am »
The last few bits of work before the next modules are built - I wanted to complete the  ballasting and weathering process so the whole thing is phased nicely.

To this end the 'concrete' base for the engine shed was built - it is 1mm plasticard lying on a frame of 2mm square strips with the gaps between rail and card and sleepers filled with fine wood filler. A series of coats of diluted acrylic and it wasn't too bad, though not great either.



And with the boys in the barracks...





The fueling station was a disaster - it's a standard GF job but the roof had to come off as it was catching some of the engines.

I'd had a go at adding some black 'engine oil' where the locos would stand most, using about 50% diluted black acrylic/water added with airbrush. A bit heavy handed in places but had one paint left over to weather some MGRs.

As you'll see from the vid below it looks like the guys in the engineering works could only be bothered to clean half of the rake...

Various other bits of track weathering painting junction boxes / weathering...






The class 20s are new (well, last year) but have only just seen action, the video below is a trial running. There's another new recruit too.

https://youtu.be/SlG17NfbVOU

The ballasted bits are going fine, better than expected really - the points all seem to work and are hard wired so contact isn't an issue. Irritatingly some there's been some derailments/decoupling on the corners - hopefully only because these are currently temporary and not well laid.

The next step is to take the whole thing down, fill and paint the entire room as it's still pretty dingy and the light is terrible. After that the currently ballasted module will be moved across the room and set in its longer term location so I can finish the scenics (grass, buildings and some retaining walls).

At the same time I'll start to lay the station (on the currently empty board you can see in the background), build two linking modules that will take the layout across the room.

The planning thread explains more and will be modified soon as I need to nail the final track plan.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=20015.0

Thanks for looking

PT
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 08:36:11 am by ptopo »

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+63)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 29786
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2016, 10:05:49 am »
That's looking very, very good and I envy you the length available to run decent rakes :envy:
However, I don't envy you the cost of putting such rakes together :no:

Offline MrDobilina

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 445
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Modular layout
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2016, 11:05:15 am »
Hey a quick couple questions:
Where did you get you ballast from? The stuff I have is too big really :/

Also how do you recouple after decoupling with the magnets?

 

Please Support Us!
November Goal: £55.00
Due Date: Nov 30
Total Receipts: £75.00
Above Goal: £20.00
Site Currency: GBP
136% 
November Donations


Advertise Here