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Author Topic: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults  (Read 42220 times)

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Offline shandy

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2014, 03:57:00 pm »
Well I couldn't leave it alone, decided to have a shufti inside one of the blighters - I'd previously had the cabs off them to fit a decoder…

I removed cab, lubed the gears, reprogrammed the decoder to default settings and stuck it on the rolling road to give it a blast (before refitting cab) the problem seems to have eased considerably, although its still not 100% right.

I think Alan is right about the pickups and bearings.

How do I get the main body off to get at the worm, pickups and bearings??? A bit worried I break the thing, already pulled off the rear pipework and thats a stinker to refit.

I think I'll stop at that and see what DCC supplies think. I'd also be keen to hear what Douglas at Wickness says about Chris' pannier.

On the general quality control issue I recently spoke to a well known supplier (not mentioning any names) about getting a sound chip for my A4 and I was advised against it - said supplier commented that they would no longer be supporting Dapol due to the QC issues and the amount of returns they were getting - so Dapol are well aware of the problems.

I'll update on the response from DCC supplies.

Cheers for all your comments, Steve


Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2014, 04:15:10 pm »

I think I'll stop at that and see what DCC supplies think. I'd also be keen to hear what Douglas at Wickness says about Chris' pannier.

Cheers for all your comments, Steve

I'm very concerned about this; a friend had advised me that Dapol steam outline models did not have a good reputation but, muggins here thought a new Dapol pannier MUST be better than old design Graham Farish ones. 8-( So, I'm going to send my Dapol pannier off to Wickness this week (with another batch of locos) and ask Douglas to prioritise it (plus my Grafar outside crank Class 08, already at Wickness, for gauging trials) and I'll let you know what Douglas says about my Dapol pannier.

Offline silly moo

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2014, 04:44:52 pm »
Here's the silly question of the week, if my Dapol pannier conks out, would the body fit onto a Farish chassis? I'm guessing not but I wonder if anyone has had them both in pieces to compare the bodies.

Regards

Veronica

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2014, 05:01:46 pm »
if my Dapol pannier conks out

.....send it back as it's less that 2 years old.

A better bet will be the upcoming Farish 64xx pannier chassis I think anyway.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2014, 05:04:59 pm »
How do I get the main body off to get at the worm, pickups and bearings??? A bit worried I break the thing, already pulled off the rear pipework and thats a stinker to refit.

I had to take the whole thing apart to cure it - I mean right down to wheels off the axles. Not recommended unless you are very confident and happy to zero your warranty.

If you can unclip the baseplate (not immediately obvious, but it does clip on - some cosmetic wires at the rear may be holding it) then you can see the bearings (these are the pickups) and the gearing. From there you can assess how sloppy the bearing fit is and how much lubricant is in there. The only way to properly clean out lubricant on the bearings is full strip down, wheels off axles so you can get at the bearing surfaces.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2014, 06:17:22 pm »
Here's the silly question of the week, if my Dapol pannier conks out, would the body fit onto a Farish chassis? I'm guessing not but I wonder if anyone has had them both in pieces to compare the bodies.

Regards

Veronica

I was planning to try the same thing until I realised that that was highly unlikely to work without major surgery? So, I now have a spare Dapol 57XX body in BR Black late crest.

Offline Izzy

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2014, 07:53:55 pm »
I have wondered whether the split axle/bearing arrangement would prove to be reliable or not, and it will be interesting to see if the same issues arise with the new Farish locos using the same basic design.

In 2mm where split chassis design is fairly standard there has been the general adoption of wire springs pressing on the axles to assist and improve the reliability of pickup.

The basic problem is not split-axle pickup per se, but arranging it through captive bearings where dirt can build up and get trapped.

It might be worth trying to add spring pickups to ascertain if this cured the problems.

Izzy

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2014, 09:31:34 pm »
It might be worth trying to add spring pickups to ascertain if this cured the problems.

I didn't do this, by did bypass the pickups temporarily to see if the motor ran ok, which it did - this pointed the finger at the pickups being the cause of the problem.

Haven't seen the same with my Farish of equivalent running hours...yet. Though have seen an A1 with intermittent running due to oil in the loco pickup bearings, of the same design. One problem Dapol have is that this loco should be oiled before use, but oil is the enemy of these pickups if it gets into them at all.

This is absolutely inevitable on any of this design. I've seen the same on my Kato Eurostar, which has pin point bearing pickups (not exactly the same, but similar in concept), and this periodically needs cleaned too. Not quite as difficult to dismantle as the Dapol locos though...

Wipers may need to be correctly adjusted, but they may not be so bad after all...

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline shandy

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2014, 11:30:21 am »
I ran the locos this morning and they behaved quite well, running over points and around the continuous run without any stuttering.

Maybe my fiddling and cleaning has had some positive impact? Maybe running on the rolling road under full power has freed up the mechanism? Maybe the dismantling has loosened things off a bit, possible some pressure was being exerted on the mechanism. :confused2: I reckon Alan is right though and the chances are that the fault will recur.

So, I just spoke to DCC Supplies, and explained the symptoms and, sure enough, there have been a number of these panniers with these problems repaired under warranty.

The bad news is that I bought both the locos from Rails on 10th September 2012, they come with a 12 month warranty which can be extended to the 2 year "no quibble" guarantee by being serviced by DCC Supplies at the end of the initial 12 month warranty period - effectively they are out of warranty :(

My options - send them to be fixed - 24 plus parts per loco, or see how they behave over the next few weeks and,, if they deteriorate, then send them to DCC Supplies for repair. Option 3 is to be brave and strip down to fix it like Alan did.
(thinks... - If I have to resort to a total DIY strip down I'm just going to start building the things from raw materials myself.)

So much for the 2 year no quibble warranty - should have read the small print I guess but the 2nd year warranty effectively is only activated by a service which costs 15 per loco…

Glad I cancelled my pre-ordered 3rd one, Msrs Bachman will be selling me at least one 64xx, I'll be very cautious about buying any more Dapol steamers - a bit risky I'm afraid.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2014, 11:36:16 am »
My options - send them to be fixed - 24 plus parts per loco,

 :o That's expensive...

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline elmo

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2014, 12:49:59 pm »
Forum lawyer time (do we have any) - if DCC supplies are saying that they have a number of these locos returned with the same/similar problems being dealt with under warranty then this appears a clear case of the item not being fit for purpose as there seems to be an inherant design fault.
I think you might be better off writing a stiff letter to Dapol outlining the problem and pointing out the fact that you are not a unique case.
Elmo

Offline Izzy

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2014, 01:00:48 pm »

[/quote]

 Glad I cancelled my pre-ordered 3rd one, Msrs Bachman will be selling me at least one 64xx, I'll be very cautious about buying any more Dapol steamers - a bit risky I'm afraid.

[/quote]



Given that Bachmann are moving over to split-axle pickup on the latest steam locos, will it be the case that the new 3F/64xx will also have this system?

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2014, 01:30:41 pm »
will it be the case that the new 3F/64xx will also have this system?

Undoubtedly...

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2014, 01:31:39 pm »
If it failed within two years simply return it to the place of purchase as unfit for purpose. Your guarantee is in addition to your statuatory rights. The supplier is also responsible for the return postage and in theory other costs as a result of their failure to provide proper product. There are cases a refund of less than the full amount might be negotiated and exceptions...  eg if you broke it, didn't follow clear instructions or it had use that wasn't reasonable or normal for the goods... eg 8hrs a day 7 days a week at a fixed exhibition might be hard to describe as intended purpose.

Any problems trading standards and your card company.

The usual advice is always get a refund.. even if you immediately spend it on a replacement. If you accept a repair you then can't opt for refund later just more repairs as I understand it.

Alan

"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline shandy

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Re: Dapol 0-6-0 PT's emerging faults
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2014, 02:42:40 pm »
will it be the case that the new 3F/64xx will also have this system?

Undoubtedly...

Cheers,
Alan


Arrrgggg…. I think we'll need a rating on each model of accessibility to the dodgy bits...

If it failed within two years simply return it to the place of purchase as unfit for purpose. Your guarantee is in addition to your statuatory rights.


I'll give Rails a call and see what they say

Cheers Steve

 

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