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Author Topic: Farish Bulleid Coaches  (Read 29630 times)

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Offline talisman56

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #150 on: September 30, 2018, 01:35:00 pm »
New BR (green) stock in at Hattons.

Also at Kernow:

374-432 Bulleid 63ft Brake Third Corridor Open BR (SR) Malachite Green S4019 NEM Coupling
374-432A Bulleid 63ft Brake Third Corridor Open BR (SR) Malachite Green S4020 NEM Coupling
374-442 Bulleid 63ft Third Corridor BR (SR) Malachite Green S34 NEM Coupling
374-462 Bulleid 63ft Composite Corridor BR (SR) Malachite Green S5831 NEM Coupling

I don't know: a) why they are described as BR (SR) Malachite Green and b) what Sets they belonged to (I have not had time to look them up, sorry).

Back off holiday and a question I can answer :)

S4019/4020 were the BTKs in set 84
S34 and S5831 were the TK/CK in set 88

As they were new to stock in Dec 1948 under BR ownership using the last SR coaching stock livery, the dual BR and SR appellation to the livery is valid.

Its a pity that if Farish were going to issue 4 coaches that make up a 4-set they could have made sure the 4 running numbers matched one set...
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 01:37:55 pm by talisman56 »
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Online Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #151 on: September 30, 2018, 01:50:54 pm »
Many thanks for the informative reply. I had wondered whether the livery was the transition SR to BR SR one, in which case far too early for me (and, I guess, many others?). The lettering and numbers would still be in SR Sunshine Yellow?

I agree it is bizarre that all 4 could not belong to the same Set or will GF issue a boxed Set, later, in this transition livery?

Offline talisman56

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #152 on: September 30, 2018, 08:46:16 pm »
To clarify the livery situation, the Green the Bullied coaches were outshopped in was the Bulleid Malachite green introduced by the aforesaid CMEE in 1938. This continued to be applied to Southern and BR-manufactured SR design coaches until BR Crimson and Cream livery was adopted in March 1949. After this date, all new coaches were outshopped in Crimson and Cream.

Coaches going through maintenance were only fully repainted at the 'long' 8/10-year interval service; at the 'short' 2-year service, the paintwork was only patched or 'varnished' - on the SR this enabled the continued usage of Green (Malachite or otherwise) on its stock when other regions were repainting everything that moved in Crimson/Cream (mainline stock) or plain Crimson (non-gangwayed or local stock).

In 1956, the decision was made to change the 'corporate' livery to lined maroon, with leeway for the regions to paint in other authorised liveries. The two major exceptions to maroon livery were the GWR painting some of their top-link carriage sets in Chocolate and Cream; and the BR(S) Green/EMU Green adopted by the Southern Region, SR-designed stock was repainted in this livery as soon as was practicable (in complete contrast to the laggardly way they adopted Crimson/Cream). BR Mark 1 stock was painted as-and-when; this resulted in some mixed-design sets having mis-matched liveries. The last SR-design coaches repainted from Crimson/Cream to Green were some loose Maunsells in mid-1959; some BR Mark 1 sets were still in Crimson/Cream in 1963...
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 08:59:42 pm by talisman56 »
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Online Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #153 on: September 30, 2018, 09:27:55 pm »
Thanks, again. Fortunately, none of the BR Mark 1 sets still in BR Crimson & Cream in 1963 would have been seen in North Cornwall (I'm pretty sure), or even the Southwest? The loose Maunsells in BR Crimson & Cream up to mid-1959 might have been seen in North Cornwall, though?

Offline talisman56

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #154 on: September 30, 2018, 09:43:26 pm »
Thanks, again. Fortunately, none of the BR Mark 1 sets still in BR Crimson & Cream in 1963 would have been seen in North Cornwall (I'm pretty sure), or even the Southwest? The loose Maunsells in BR Crimson & Cream up to mid-1959 might have been seen in North Cornwall, though?

The more modern stock was concentrated on the 'premier' services (Waterloo-Bournemouth), Kent Coast services, etc., enabling the older stock to be cascaded onto secondary services, thus displaing very old stock which could then be withdrawn. So places like North Cornwall would see mainly Maunsell stock in the 50s with Bulleid replacements in the 60s. Thus certainly Maunsell stock, mostly loose with the occasional set, would be de rigeur on the through services, ex-LSWR (in Crimson and later plain Maroon) and early Maunsell stock on the Locals. Until 1959 any of the Maunsell stock could still be in Crimson/Cream livery.

Most of the remaining Mark 1 sets in Crimson/Cream were on the SED, but as one of them was SWD 3-set 567 (pictured as such in 1963), I'd claim 'Rule 1' ;)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 09:44:51 pm by talisman56 »
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Offline leachsprite4

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #155 on: September 30, 2018, 09:48:50 pm »
I have a picture (in a book) of a TA troop train on the way into okehampton just after meldon quarry that appears to include two MK1 in crimson and cream.

The good news it includes at least two other coach types possibly stanniers!

It does have a T9 and N  on the front

Online Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2018, 12:23:13 pm »
Thanks to both of you. Very interesting. As there are no models of BR Standard (Mk1) coaches in BR Crimson & Cream livery with BR SR numbers, I would have to buy 3. I quite like the idea of modelling SWD 3-set 567 (pictured as such in 1963) and using it on a tourist excursion or RN special. I'm assuming Set No. 567 was formed of: BSK, CK, BSK. Do you happen to know the running numbers, please, Talisman?

I have seen photos. of BR SR BR Standard (Mk1) coaches in BR Crimson & Cream livery on Plymouth trains via Okehampton but not in Cornwall.

I have a Maunsell 2P local set in BR Crimson & Cream but, wrong running numbers and, probably, wrong height windows, too! Not to mention, no Set No. either.

Offline talisman56

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #157 on: October 02, 2018, 01:26:11 pm »
I'm assuming Set No. 567 was formed of: BSK, CK, BSK. Do you happen to know the running numbers, please, Talisman?


Do bears... etc :)

Mark 1 Set 567 BSK-CK-BSK running numbers 34982, 15895, 34983

My inspiration - never let a setback get you down...

My layout thread - Hambleside East: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18364.0
My workbench thread: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19037

Online Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #158 on: October 11, 2018, 09:27:13 pm »
I'm assuming Set No. 567 was formed of: BSK, CK, BSK. Do you happen to know the running numbers, please, Talisman?


Do bears... etc :)

Mark 1 Set 567 BSK-CK-BSK running numbers 34982, 15895, 34983

Many thanks, Talisman. I have bought three BR Crimson & Cream coaches to form the set but will need to renumber them and add the Set No. on the ends of the BSKs. Have you any idea why the SWD had the set and what it was used for?

Offline talisman56

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Re: Farish Bulleid Coaches
« Reply #159 on: October 11, 2018, 10:34:14 pm »
567 was one of eleven Mark 1 3-sets (561-71) introduced in 1957 for Waterloo-Weymouth and Waterloo-West of England services. Despite being manufactured after 1956 they were outshopped in the redundant Crimson/Cream livery rather than BR(S) Green, presumably as they were ordered in June 1955 and were products of Metropolitan-Cammell rather than a BR works. Coaches from the same orders were used to create SED 3-sets 541-58; of these, some of the later ones were transferred to SWD in 1961 to join 561-71 on the same services. 561 had an RB inserted in 1963 as it then became the designated set for the Waterloo-Lymington through service.

At about this time (1957)  the Maunsell low-window 3-sets 390-99, 445-48 were being shunted off to more rural services or the breakers yard so presumably these ones replaced them in some way, probably by displacing more recent Maunsell or Bulleid sets onto the services that the low-window Maunsells were on.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 10:56:57 pm by talisman56 »
My inspiration - never let a setback get you down...

My layout thread - Hambleside East: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18364.0
My workbench thread: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19037

 

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