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Author Topic: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.  (Read 25820 times)

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Offline portland-docks

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2013, 11:34:30 am »
Why do some mk1s have commonwealth bogies and some dont? Thought they would of all been the same?
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Offline captainelectra

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2013, 01:11:49 pm »
Mk1 bogies were a real mix'n'match. Most were built with B1 bogies which were quite rough-riding, leading to Commonwealth bogies getting fitted to a lot of vehicles, particularly catering cars. A few Mk1 restaurant cars received Gresley bogies, as the Commonwealths weren't available in time.

From the mid 1960s a lot of coaches were fitted with the B4 bogies that were developed for the Mk2s.
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Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2013, 02:16:59 pm »
The original British Rail designed B1 bogies worked well at lower speeds but not so great at high ones. They also have old style axle boxes that need topping up. This is a right pain in the arse even on heritage railways. Speed is limited to 90mph and they behaved quite badly at speed and especially when heavily loaded. (Hence the temporary use of Gresley bogies on a few coaches)

Commonwealths came in during the late 1950s. They are a commercial design and were found to perform much better at higher speeds. The downside was that they are much heavier weight. They could also be operated at 100mph.

The B4 and B5 bogies came in from 1964. These are a fabricated rather than heavy cast design and gave running as good as if not better than the Commonwealths. They also saved 1.5 tons per bogie (ie 3 tons/coach). They were rated for 100mph running, or 110mph with special maintenance cycles.

The B5 is a heavyweight version of the B4 it was used mainly on SR EMU stock, but is also used on some kitchen cars and the like (which had a B5 at the kitchen end and a B4 at the other).

Not many Mark 1 coaches got B4 bogies fitted initially but they were fitted to some vehicles, particularly those running at high speeds (eg with the Mark 2 and loco hauled Mark 3 sets). Over time as the older bogies wore out B4 bogies replaced the originals.

Of course they could just have used Gresley bogies from the beginning  :beers:

Alan
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Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #63 on: September 24, 2013, 07:08:45 am »
Thanks guys for this interesting discussion. Is it possible to buy B4 bogies to fit Graham Farrish Mark Is? Does anyone make B5s for Mark I restaurant cars?

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2013, 06:20:24 pm »
Bachmann "do not sell parts" if you ask them about N scale bogies. If you point out they do in OO they look silly but they still don't sell them as parts.

Stupid really but there is basically no decent source of B4 bogies. I have a little stash I built up by buying coaches with B4 bogies to use as conversion material and then fitting them with the appropriate replacement bogies (Gresley, Commonwealth, SR 8' steam etc)

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2013, 06:39:30 pm »
Thanks, very much, Alan. Will PM you.

I want to publicly thank you for all the great help you have provided me, on this forum. You have saved me a lot of time and money and directed me to the best places to buy things.

Offline johnlambert

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2014, 09:59:07 pm »
I thought I'd take some more photos of 374-012C the new, weathered maroon Mk1 Second Open coach.  For comparison I photographed it next to an un-weathered maroon SO.















I'm not sure if the effect is wholly successful but it might look better in a train of identically weathered coaches; toning down the "works fresh" look of the ordinary maroon.  I also think this weathered finish will work better on the GUV and BG, which were often very grimy.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2014, 01:17:59 am »
Thanks for putting temptation in my way, John :stop:

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2014, 07:04:43 am »
Thanks, John for the interesting comparison pictures. I'm not sure if the effect is wholly successful either. In general, I'm not a fan of 'factory weathering' as the results are too even. In the 1960s, apart from summer weekends, rakes of carriages tended to be kept together so I agree that it might look better in a train of identically weathered coaches, toning down the 'ex-works' look of the ordinary maroon.  I also think this weathered finish will work much better on the GUV and BG (and CCTs), which were often very grimy. However, rakes of carriages used on expresses tended to be kept much cleaner. As Penmayne has a brand new carriage cleaning plant (at Lady Penelope's insistence), my passenger trains are kept nice and clean. Rivalry between the SR and the WR ensures that arriving passenger trains are kept pretty clean, too, apart from the coach roofs which will need some weathering due to smoke stains. Judging by phots. coach roofs varied from light grey through to almost black!

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2014, 09:11:06 am »
I am inclined to agree, carriage sides were normally kept fairly clean as these were the bits the passengers saw. Dirty sides and clean roofs doesn't quite seem right.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Zunnan

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #70 on: May 21, 2014, 11:40:36 am »
I have to agree, dirty sides and clean roof looks odd. The 'dirt' pattern looks way off to me too, a general dust over doesn't convey body side dirt build up on passenger coaches, underframes maybe, but not the sides. A good weathering job on a coach would have a grimy brake dust coated  underframe and ends, varying shades of soot on the roof and the sides only really want collections of dirt around the door furniture and window ventilators where it was awkward to clean. This rtr modelled dirt is only really half a job suitable for parcels stock, it still needs the roof doing. IMHO the half job isn't worth the extra cost of the weathered vehicles when it's easier to get a decent weathered finish from a clean starting point.
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Offline Karhedron

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2014, 11:54:33 am »
I am currently experimenting with acrylic washes for weathering coach sides. This naturally collects into the gaps and crevices which seems to more accurately portray the state of passenger vehicles.

Factory weathering is improving all the time but my impression is that these coaches do not represent the current cutting edge. Dapol's weathering seems to be to a much higher standard although it is currently limited to fewer items. The class 22 milk tanker sets and the new weathered Western Invader in particular are superb.



Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2014, 12:49:07 pm »
I have to fully agree with both of you. I am having my locos' underframes and bogies lightly weathered (by Pauline McKenna) but not the bodies as the locos. would, with their carriages, have gone through Penmayne's washing plant so the fronts and sides would be clean if not the roofs and the underframes and bogies would very quickly pick up track dust, etc. The carriage roofs (light to heavy) and loco roofs (light is my preference) do need weathering though. Only ex-works vehicles were immaculate all over. My D1662 "Isambard Kingdom Brunel" (a beautiful piece of work by Pauline McKenna) is in ex-works condition immediately after naming. I will have a go at VERY lightly weathering most of the carriages' underframes and bogies with track dirt.

I'm now severely tempted to buy one of the Class 22 milk tanker sets as I want a BR Blue D series Class 22 and the milk tankers are exactly correct for my period and I need some (but not 6, 4 would be enough) for traffic from the Castle Estate.

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2014, 01:01:51 pm »
I can vouch for the class 22 book sets (I got both the blue and green ones  :heart2: ). I would go ahead and get the set as the weathered milk tankers are not available separately. and it is cheaper to get a set than to get a separate 22 and 4 tankers anyway.

I am sure you will easily be able to sell on the extra tankers if the are surplus to your needs. There will be plenty of people happy enough to strengthen their own rakes.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Chris in Prague

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Re: Farish Mk1 coaches - new version.
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2014, 01:35:45 pm »
Thanks, I have the weathered Class 22 bought from someone who only wanted the milk tankers but I'm thinking of selling it to fund a BR Blue Class 22. (I have two BR Green Class 22s renumbered to Plymouth laira examples and with lightly weathered underframes and bogies, by Pauline McKenna). Buying the BR Blue Class 22 set seems a very good idea. I can also sell my 4 wrong period Unigate Dairy tankers then, too.

 

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