N Gauge Forum

Your Layout and Models => 3D Modelling => Topic started by: Tank on September 08, 2012, 08:09:26 pm

Title: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on September 08, 2012, 08:09:26 pm
Hello everyone,

I've been keeping this under wraps for weeks, but those of you who model in the 'modern era' will be pleased to hear that the N Gauge Forum is lucky enough to have had two members develop a motorised model of a RailTrack/Network Rail Windhoff MPV.

For those that don't know, these units were originally ordered by RailTrack in the late 90's.  25 pairs were ordered to help maintain our railway and replace the old stock that was being used.  Network Rail has of course taken over the running of these great Multi Purpose Vehicles.

This model will come with the chassis, cab, detachable modules (which can be swapped around), and a piece to be placed on the chassis if you choose to run it without the modules.  The model will be 3D printed, and will need to be painted, as well as the modeller fitting the suggested motor in each cab end.

Due to a delay with various samples we haven't got as far as we wanted to for TINGs 2012, but a model will be on show on Sunday.

All comments are welcome - I think!   :D
Here are some of the CAD pictures to get you drooling, and I'll save the pictures of the real model for anyone who wants to view it tomorrow. ;D  The pictures below are in chronological order during development.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVChassis21.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVChassis1.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVChassis2.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVCab.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVCab2.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVTank1.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVTank2.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVTank3.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVChassis11.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVChassis22.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVChassis3.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVChassis4.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVGenerator1.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVGenerator2.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVStore1.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MPVStore2.jpg)

:NGaugeForum:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on September 08, 2012, 08:44:18 pm
Ooh, this looks interesting...await to see the pictures with interest!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Zwilnik on September 08, 2012, 09:44:03 pm
Great idea. Especially the interchangeable modules.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 08, 2012, 10:46:33 pm
wonder how they'd look in BR blue or large logo blue under Rule 1  :no: :no: :no:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 08, 2012, 10:56:15 pm
wonder how they'd look in BR blue or large logo blue under Rule 1  :no: :no: :no:

You're more than welcome to try one!   ;D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 08, 2012, 10:58:23 pm
don't tempt me, I'm already in enough smelly stuff with SWMBO  ::)

any idea on prices yet ?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 08, 2012, 11:04:59 pm
LOL  Just don't tell her!  ;)

I can't state any prices yet, as we're still deciding on a few bits and pieces.  3D printing is expensive though for two units, and the units will need two two motor bogies.  Hopefully I will know soon, but it will certainly be over the £100 mark if that helps.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 08, 2012, 11:08:18 pm
not really, still tempted ---- wonder how big the box will be / how easy to hide  >:D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 08, 2012, 11:15:44 pm
serious question : when you say interchangable modules, are you looking to produce it with one set of modules and the 'empty' floor, and then have other modules available seperately for other tasks, or have it with all modules in the one set [does that make sense ?]
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 09, 2012, 12:06:04 am
Is it going to be heavy enough as is or are you expecting to need additional weights ?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: thomasash on September 09, 2012, 04:51:45 pm
They look truly awesome! Where will i be able to buy them? I rather fancy a pair!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 09, 2012, 05:35:58 pm
serious question : when you say interchangable modules, are you looking to produce it with one set of modules and the 'empty' floor, and then have other modules available seperately for other tasks, or have it with all modules in the one set [does that make sense ?]

There will be the correct modules for the running pair.  I'm sure other modules could be produced in the future.

Is it going to be heavy enough as is or are you expecting to need additional weights ?

Once we've got everything on the model we can decide.  The motor bogie we were using seems to have 'disappeared' from the sellers range, so we're either hoping for good news from the supplier, or we'll have to find something else suitable.

They look truly awesome! Where will i be able to buy them? I rather fancy a pair!

Many thanks!  I'll put all of the information on here as soon as the product is finished, but I'll keep you informed.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on September 09, 2012, 05:43:38 pm
One question, is there not a major risk Bachmann will replicate their offering in N gauge in the near future?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 09, 2012, 05:53:33 pm
One question, is there not a major risk Bachmann will replicate their offering in N gauge in the near future?

You have to take it as granted in this business that Dapol, Bachmann or the N Gauge Society will sometimes duplicate any kit you produce and basically kill it off. Build it into your pricing model because it happens  :'(
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: darren.c on September 09, 2012, 05:55:25 pm
great news will be looking forwards to building a couple of these
just hope bachmann dont do there own
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on September 09, 2012, 06:02:14 pm


You have to take it as granted in this business that Dapol, Bachmann or the N Gauge Society will duplicate any kit you produce and basically kill it off. Build it into your pricing model because it happens  :'(

True, but I only make the observation as Bachmann have already produced one in 00. That said, it may be ages before one turns up.

It does look an interesting project of a desirable prototype...I may even be tempted into one myself!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 09, 2012, 06:21:21 pm
Yes, there is a risk that Bachmann may 'downsize' their 00 model, but then again, it may never happen?!  If the sales are good for us then they might decide to make the model in n gauge......so maybe I'll keep it a secret!!!! :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: bees on September 09, 2012, 06:26:01 pm
This looks awesome, Tank, unfortunately not prototypical of my era, but S.W.M.B.O. might let me have one, nonetheless!!!

Steven
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: kingmoor12A on September 09, 2012, 06:56:04 pm
About bloomin time this arrived on the scene,

Where does one sign up for it?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 09, 2012, 07:36:00 pm
About bloomin time this arrived on the scene,

Where does one sign up for it?


I'll keep you posted, but also keep your eyes peeled on this thread.  ;)

Here is an update to the questions I answered previously from one of the developers:-

MPV Mk1 made it to the show today and was on Bob & Adams stand till 3pm - many thanks to them both for hosting it.
 
Quite a few questions on this thread - see if I can add some detail....
 
serious question : when you say interchangable modules, are you looking to produce it with one set of modules and the 'empty' floor, and then have other modules available seperately for other tasks, or have it with all modules in the one set [does that make sense ?]
At the moment there is a full set of modules and empty floor units for weedkiller and sandite formations designed and ready to print as seperate items - all seperate parts for you to arrange as you like or as they are used for real. If you can find other modules used in the UK then send in a link.
 
Is it going to be heavy enough as is or are you expecting to need additional weights ?
the motor bogie we have used is....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120890929043 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120890929043)
its seems a bit tempermental on pure DC (start&stoping is a bit abrupt but runs nice once started) but surprisingly quite reasonable on a pulse based controller eg KPC etc - certainly better than some of the roling stock in use at TINGS today. Iv added a tiny bit of extra weight in the chassis and made up a support for the front part of the bogie to get the required down force on the only driven axle.
One problem and its a big one - it seems to have vanished - if you can find one and want to use it then a chassis and modules can be provided. Remember its a kit not RTR and wil need some skill to assemble and perfect - and a lick of paint.
 
They look truly awesome! Where will i be able to buy them? I rather fancy a pair!
Its going to be marketed through the NGF and only here as an NGF exclusive - fine detial to be arranged.
 
One question, is there not a major risk Bachmann will replicate their offering in N gauge in the near future?
Quite possible - but they have to identify the need and then engineer a solution just like were doing except a much bigger batch size to make it practical and ecconomical. If they choose to hide the motor under the tank as per the OO one then that may work. if they go for the bogie in cab version they can have as much fun as us trying to fit it in - maybe the new coreless motor as a motor bogie?
 
Hope that has filled in all the gaps.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 09, 2012, 07:46:17 pm
The Pro-Hobby units were released in 2007-10. 1999.co.jp have a few complete locos using them left but that's about it that I know of. They released a batch of chassis only in early 2011 but those have all sold out it seems.

Their new series was supposed to be a 2011 release but is 'delayed'. This is a different chassis (its an insanely small steam loco chassis and I can't wait to get my paws on one!)

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10073168a/20/1 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10073168a/20/1)

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Roy L S on September 09, 2012, 07:47:14 pm
Not my era at all, but the CADs look great and I hope it is a big success.

I guess my only question is out of interest and concern for reliable pickup- Will there be a power bogie in each vehicle and if "yes" will it be intended wire them together ensure the model doesn't get "gapped" on points etc?

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 09, 2012, 07:50:58 pm
http://www.prohobby.sakura.ne.jp/icom-hp-data/top-page/TopPage-01.html (http://www.prohobby.sakura.ne.jp/icom-hp-data/top-page/TopPage-01.html)

is Pro Hobby itself if we've got a Japanese reader on the forum...
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 09, 2012, 08:03:54 pm
Not my era at all, but the CADs look great and I hope it is a big success.

I guess my only question is out of interest and concern for reliable pickup- Will there be a power bogie in each vehicle and if "yes" will it be intended wire them together ensure the model doesn't get "gapped" on points etc?

Regards

Roy


Remember that this is going to be in 'kit form', so if the user wishes to connect the motorised chassis to the other bogie of the unit, or to go as far as to connect both motorised chassis, then it's up to them.  ;)  :D  I think that it would be a wise choice to do that though, but not essential.

The Pro-Hobby units were released in 2007-10. 1999.co.jp have a few complete locos using them left but that's about it that I know of. They released a batch of chassis only in early 2011 but those have all sold out it seems.

Their new series was supposed to be a 2011 release but is 'delayed'. This is a different chassis (its an insanely small steam loco chassis and I can't wait to get my paws on one!)

[url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10073168a/20/1[/url] ([url]http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10073168a/20/1[/url])


Many thanks for the information EtchedPixels.  I've messaged PlazaJapan on eBay, so I'll see what they say and go from there. :worried:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: MacRat on September 09, 2012, 08:12:06 pm
...serious question : when you say interchangable modules, are you looking to produce it with one set of modules and the 'empty' floor, and then have other modules available seperately for other tasks, or have it with all modules in the one set [does that make sense ?]
At the moment there is a full set of modules and empty floor units for weedkiller and sandite formations designed and ready to print as seperate items - all seperate parts for you to arrange as you like or as they are used for real. If you can find other modules used in the UK then send in a link.
 
Is it going to be heavy enough as is or are you expecting to need additional weights ?
the motor bogie we have used is....
[url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120890929043[/url] ([url]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120890929043[/url])
its seems a bit tempermental on pure DC (start&stoping is a bit abrupt but runs nice once started) but surprisingly quite reasonable on a pulse based controller eg KPC etc - certainly better than some of the roling stock in use at TINGS today. Iv added a tiny bit of extra weight in the chassis and made up a support for the front part of the bogie to get the required down force on the only driven axle.
One problem and its a big one - it seems to have vanished - if you can find one and want to use it then a chassis and modules can be provided. Remember its a kit not RTR and wil need some skill to assemble and perfect - and a lick of paint.



I welcome this development.
Further questions; Will the very fine parts like railings be printed or provided as etched parts, see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5153-nr-mpvs/#entry504752 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5153-nr-mpvs/#entry504752) ?

A further possible module would be the timber box as in this picture http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5153-nr-mpvs/#entry505319 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5153-nr-mpvs/#entry505319) . Would the motorised boogie be powerful enough to haul 7 OTAs?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on September 09, 2012, 08:12:41 pm
I have a couple of the Pro Hobby critters, and whilst nice little models (albeit a little oversized), they are a little cranky at slow speed. These are a couple of years old and improvements have been made, but how do these little motors fair at slow speed now?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 09, 2012, 08:31:17 pm
I welcome this development.
Further questions; Will the very fine parts like railings be printed or provided as etched parts, see [url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5153-nr-mpvs/#entry504752[/url] ([url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5153-nr-mpvs/#entry504752[/url]) ?

A further possible module would be the timber box as in this picture [url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5153-nr-mpvs/#entry505319[/url] ([url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/5153-nr-mpvs/#entry505319[/url]) . Would the motorised boogie be powerful enough to haul 7 OTAs?


Many thanks MacRat.  Yes, Bernard @ TPM is kindly sorting the handrails out for us.

I'll mention to the developer about the timber box version.  There will be a motor in each cab, so I should think that would power the 7 OTA's.  We'll have a testing stage before promising that though!  :)

I have a couple of the Pro Hobby critters, and whilst nice little models (albeit a little oversized), they are a little cranky at slow speed. These are a couple of years old and improvements have been made, but how do these little motors fair at slow speed now?


Appreciate the feedback about the motors....I hope they've improved!  ;D  Again, this will be seen in the testing.  I haven't got one myself, but one of the developers has (which would have been seen at TINGs today).
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: MacRat on September 09, 2012, 08:47:13 pm
Many thanks MacRat.  Yes, Bernard @ TPM is kindly sorting the handrails out for us.

I'll mention to the developer about the timber box version.  There will be a motor in each cab, so I should think that would power the 7 OTA's.  We'll have a testing stage before promising that though!  :)
Thanks Tank
Now I'm really looking forward to it. :D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 09, 2012, 09:01:00 pm
you say it will have a powered bogie in each chassis, but will it be possible to replace one with a dummy bogie, or should someone want to run a pair of pairs, replace two powered bogies with dummy ones. I assume it would need a blank to fit into the cutout for the powered bogie, with the mounting for the dummy one ?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: OwL on September 09, 2012, 09:06:36 pm
 Just wanted to say that the CAD design looks excellent, and the whole project is testament that the N Gauge Forum is going from strength to strength. I really hope that Bachmann chose not to down size their 00 offering with the view that this model kit fills the gap, sells out and goes from strength to strength.
The first of many N Gauge Forum kits one hopes....

Great stuff Tank and co, and I wish you every success with the MPV.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 09, 2012, 09:12:18 pm
you say it will have a powered bogie in each chassis, but will it be possible to replace one with a dummy bogie, or should someone want to run a pair of pairs, replace two powered bogies with dummy ones. I assume it would need a blank to fit into the cutout for the powered bogie, with the mounting for the dummy one ?

It's up to you buddy if you want to, as you'll be putting it together.  :P  Good idea though.  Maybe I can enquire in a 'dummy' version?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 09, 2012, 09:25:14 pm
you say it will have a powered bogie in each chassis, but will it be possible to replace one with a dummy bogie, or should someone want to run a pair of pairs, replace two powered bogies with dummy ones. I assume it would need a blank to fit into the cutout for the powered bogie, with the mounting for the dummy one ?

perhaps if there was a 'dummy' chassis and a 'powered' chassis available, it might be worth while to let people choose their option when buying, or would that make things too difficult ?

if the timber rack was available, would members wanting to build that want to pay for the modules for the weedkiller / sandite version, to replace them with the timber racks ?

does that make sense ?

It's up to you buddy if you want to, as you'll be putting it together.  :P  Good idea though.  Maybe I can enquire in a 'dummy' version?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Zwilnik on September 09, 2012, 09:26:20 pm
I took a quick pic while I was there today. Looks great.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/thumb_2000.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2000)

As far as the risk of Dapol or Bachmann releasing one. I wouldn't worry as long as the NGF kit is released relatively quickly. An advantage of kit design based on rapid prototyping is that you can use it to fill gaps in the market while they're there and simply move onto the next product once the RTR ones arrive as you've not got any stock to worry about.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 09, 2012, 09:31:24 pm
I hoped someone would have a picture.  :)  Thank you!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 09, 2012, 09:45:49 pm
I have a couple of the Pro Hobby critters, and whilst nice little models (albeit a little oversized), they are a little cranky at slow speed. These are a couple of years old and improvements have been made, but how do these little motors fair at slow speed now?

The later Pro Hobby ones are just as cranky and not great chassis at all IMHO. The TU-7T is a much nicer four wheel drive chassis but as with a lot of these chassis is 4.5v maximum which is mildly annoying on DC and a complete and utter PITA on DCC because decoders output chopped ~12v/0v  at high frequency not a flat voltage. The 7T is also much shorter wheelbase so not a good fit for the MPV.

The really really good chassis in this category is the one in the Kato articulated trams. That's incredibly tiny and and very controllable courtesy of whatever magic is in the PCB that feeds them.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: NTrain on September 09, 2012, 09:48:14 pm
I set off for my Sunday dash round the layouts, with camera in hand. When I got back it had gone, so didn't get to take a picture.  :'(
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on September 09, 2012, 09:52:13 pm
Hi All

A couple of phots...
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/thumb_2001.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2001)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/thumb_2002.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2002)

Tomix TM04 on order for testing - you can actually get this and it doesnt cost a fortune - fingers crossed.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: OwL on September 09, 2012, 09:59:08 pm
Good Luck Russ. I think we all wish you the very best with it. Let's hope the chassis and motors works  as good together like the Spitfire and the Merlin engine.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on September 09, 2012, 10:05:31 pm
The Tomix chassis may be a better bet...although the motor may protrude a little too high. I like the adjustable length chassis from Tomix - TM 06 onwards I think.

Sticking with motor bogies, you also have the TGW Deki chassis, but may not be an improvement on the Pro Hobby...

 http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10118042 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10118042)

If feeling rich there is the World Craft motor bogie...similar, but better quality and many times more expensive!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Railwaygun on September 09, 2012, 10:51:39 pm
Osborne models stock these as well - may be worth contacting Morris
also Bahnoff models -also at TING


Nick R
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: bridgiesimon on September 09, 2012, 10:56:44 pm
ok, I have had the pleasure of getting a very close look at this model today and even seeing it run and am MEGA impressed, the detail is great, it looks like it should and it VERY well designed. I have put my name down for one and am really looking forward to it.

A brilliant addition to the scale, mega congrats to all involved!!!!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: roundhouse on September 10, 2012, 10:22:47 am
I saw the unit on display yesterday and it looks very good. WIll it be possible to fit a decoder to the motor (accept it will need a decoder for each motor).

As long as there is means to DCC it then I will have one for Banbury.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 10, 2012, 10:42:41 am
Thanks for the comments and help everyone.

I saw the unit on display yesterday and it looks very good. WIll it be possible to fit a decoder to the motor (accept it will need a decoder for each motor).

As long as there is means to DCC it then I will have one for Banbury.

Ian

There will almost certainly be the chance to DCC the model.  This is what I'd want to do with mine.  :)

ok, I have had the pleasure of getting a very close look at this model today and even seeing it run and am MEGA impressed, the detail is great, it looks like it should and it VERY well designed. I have put my name down for one and am really looking forward to it.

A brilliant addition to the scale, mega congrats to all involved!!!!

Simon

Jealous that you got so close Simon!   :D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: bridgiesimon on September 10, 2012, 05:42:55 pm
DCC, Rus and I were talking about this and our thoughts are that if you wired through the 2 motores, you would only need one chip and there is space in the underframe for one.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 10, 2012, 05:48:51 pm
DCC, Rus and I were talking about this and our thoughts are that if you wired through the 2 motores, you would only need one chip and there is space in the underframe for one.

That was what I was thinking looking at the model along with 'I bet I can fit a speaker in there'. Alas I suspect it won't have enough traction to move a track cleaner which would be its obvious 'use'.

You may have to fiddle with or disable back EMF settings on the decoder with two motors as it may get a little confused, but given they are going to be similar I imagine it'll be fine anyway. Probably needs more than two wires for any lighting though.


Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Zwilnik on September 10, 2012, 05:52:07 pm

That was what I was thinking looking at the model along with 'I bet I can fit a speaker in there'. Alas I suspect it won't have enough traction to move a track cleaner which would be its obvious 'use'.


A track cleaner module for it would be a good one though, even if it's a basic motor + scrubbers one like the Fleischmann one.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: red_death on September 10, 2012, 09:16:40 pm
The CAD looks excellent, though like one of the previous comments I can't help thinking that it is only a matter of time before Bachfar shrink their 4mm model.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on September 10, 2012, 09:41:08 pm
Well done guys, it looks like the puppy's plums!

To be fair, does it matter if Bachmann or Dapol (or anyone else) does release it RTR in 3 months, a year or 5 years down the line (pun intended). It's available (almost) now by fellow members of the community and it should be applauded (and supported if its in your era).

I hope to release my Manchester Tram as a kit once its finished, it was intended only for personal one-off, but if people want it, I'll offer it irrelevant of if someone else makes it as an RTR model.

Also ... how many times have Bachmann & Dapol announced they will release something, then 5 years later still not released it ... the pacer being a perfect example ... release it, if its 3D printed then the worse that will happen is you have a couple left if/when the big boys try to rain on the parade.

Regards Tony
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: red_death on September 10, 2012, 10:33:05 pm
To be fair, does it matter if Bachmann or Dapol (or anyone else) does release it RTR in 3 months, a year or 5 years down the line (pun intended). It's available (almost) now by fellow members of the community and it should be applauded (and supported if its in your era).

I think it does matter actually - CAD takes time which most of us have in limited amounts of time.  Looking at the total picture of N gauge available now or in the near-ish future I would rather there was more model diversity rather than duplication. There is so much that hasn't been done and is unlikely to be done by Bachfar or Dapol (eg your excellent Mcr tram).

I hope to release my Manchester Tram as a kit once its finished, it was intended only for personal one-off, but if people want it, I'll offer it irrelevant of if someone else makes it as an RTR model.
True and I'll have one of your trams.  You are right for 3D prints, though it becomes it a bit more tricky when using the prints as masters for casting or producing kits that need additional parts eg etches etc.

Also ... how many times have Bachmann & Dapol announced they will release something, then 5 years later still not released it ... the pacer being a perfect example ...
Are there really that many examples?  IIRC the Pacer was announced in 2009.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 10, 2012, 11:47:00 pm
True and I'll have one of your trams.  You are right for 3D prints, though it becomes it a bit more tricky when using the prints as masters for casting or producing kits that need additional parts eg etches etc.

The base cost for etch production isn't so bad these days, especially if you use a modelling oriented producer like PPD rather than the big boys (who demand big sheets). The quality of output from Chempix is better and their repeatability is superb but PPD are faster, cheaper and will do smaller sheet sizes.

Alan

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on September 12, 2012, 10:58:27 am
Also ... how many times have Bachmann & Dapol announced they will release something, then 5 years later still not released it ... the pacer being a perfect example ...
Are there really that many examples?  IIRC the Pacer was announced in 2009.
OK so 5 years may have been a little exaggeration but 3-4 years from announcement to sale is really not uncommon. The GraFar 150 was easily 3 years, the  pacer is 3 years and still going - it was spring, then summer, then autumn, now christmas - when does it end?

The T-68A is already available in OO gauge, but the work required to mine to allow me to produce it to that scale as well is so minimal (in relation to building a new model from scratch) that I may as well try.
Quote
We have a TV that shows us everything we need to see in shades of grey. Why would anyone want to spend the time developing a different one that shows us in colour? It's not like I want to know which team that guy kicking the ball plays for!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Damian on September 13, 2012, 09:56:26 am
True and I'll have one of your trams.  You are right for 3D prints, though it becomes it a bit more tricky when using the prints as masters for casting or producing kits that need additional parts eg etches etc.


The base cost for etch production isn't so bad these days, especially if you use a modelling oriented producer like PPD rather than the big boys (who demand big sheets). The quality of output from Chempix is better and their repeatability is superb but PPD are faster, cheaper and will do smaller sheet sizes.

Alan


Etching is pretty easy to do in the garage too :-) One fish tank, a heater, a bubbler (i run mine of my compressor which helps keep the costs down), some dip, photoresist aerosol and brass sheet. Simplesss! I reckon you can be up and etching on a semi industrial scale for under 100 quid so if you have a biggish project then its very cost effective.

Here is what I have done:
http://kellysbritain.co.uk/trains/?p=137 (http://kellysbritain.co.uk/trains/?p=137)

It all looks a lot messier now but I knock up chain link fence, grills and all sorts of other odds and ends on a whim now.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 13, 2012, 11:46:51 am
Etching is pretty easy to do in the garage too :-) One fish tank, a heater, a bubbler (i run mine of my compressor which helps keep the costs down), some dip, photoresist aerosol and brass sheet. Simplesss! I reckon you can be up and etching on a semi industrial scale for under 100 quid so if you have a biggish project then its very cost effective.

Remember to remove the fish first  :) But yes I agree you can do it yourself providing you want lower detail objects or structural stuff  - and the laser print transfer trick will get you a passable resolution, but not enough for really good etching in my experience. Commercial etchers are working at over 3000 dpi and for fine work like coach sides that makes a visible difference. For stuff like chassis its no big deal.

The other problem if you want to do it as part of a commercial project in any form at which point you have to do all the safety and material disposals (plus accompanying paperwork for used etching acid now heavy in metals). Thats one of the big reasons I use PPD. The other being that I'd rather be wandering along the beach than arguing with tanks of goo  :laugh: and especially rather than doing council paperwork !

Alan
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on September 13, 2012, 11:58:44 am
Thats one of the big reasons I use PPD. The other being that I'd rather be wandering along the beach than arguing with tanks of goo  :laugh: and especially rather than doing council paperwork !
:laugh3: :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: moogle on September 13, 2012, 12:11:46 pm
Private (non-commercial) kit making can be a good thing.
That is basically what DATAjammer is doing by offering what he's done for himself to others.
( :thankyousign: Its a good thing to do.  :thumbsup:)
I remember the NGS 'Shark' brake van kit starting out as a private kit between members and then becoming popular and being added to the NGS range of kits.

To be fair, does it matter if Bachmann or Dapol (or anyone else) does release it RTR in 3 months, a year or 5 years down the line (pun intended). It's available (almost) now by fellow members of the community and it should be applauded (and supported if its in your era).

I think it does matter actually - CAD takes time which most of us have in limited amounts of time.  Looking at the total picture of N gauge available now or in the near-ish future I would rather there was more model diversity rather than duplication. There is so much that hasn't been done and is unlikely to be done by Bachfar or Dapol (eg your excellent Mcr tram).

Actually you are both correct!  ???  :confused1:
It all depends on what it is a model/print of.
If it is of something already available as r-t-r in that other scale then it has a good chance of it appearing as r-t-r in N, then it matters.
If its only available as a kit then the chances are not as good so it matters less.
If its not available at all in that other scale then it doesn't matter at all!

In other words, the less commercially viable a model is the less it matters if your model of it was duplicated.
At least that's how I see and approach the subject.  :D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Damian on September 13, 2012, 12:22:34 pm
Etching is pretty easy to do in the garage too :-) One fish tank, a heater, a bubbler (i run mine of my compressor which helps keep the costs down), some dip, photoresist aerosol and brass sheet. Simplesss! I reckon you can be up and etching on a semi industrial scale for under 100 quid so if you have a biggish project then its very cost effective.

Remember to remove the fish first  :) But yes I agree you can do it yourself providing you want lower detail objects or structural stuff  - and the laser print transfer trick will get you a passable resolution, but not enough for really good etching in my experience. Commercial etchers are working at over 3000 dpi and for fine work like coach sides that makes a visible difference. For stuff like chassis its no big deal.

The other problem if you want to do it as part of a commercial project in any form at which point you have to do all the safety and material disposals (plus accompanying paperwork for used etching acid now heavy in metals). Thats one of the big reasons I use PPD. The other being that I'd rather be wandering along the beach than arguing with tanks of goo  :laugh: and especially rather than doing council paperwork !

Alan

Damn, I wondered why the fish were upside down :-)

I using a photographic process and some pretty good printers. Thanks goodness for work :-). I can etch down to about 0.25mm as long as the brass is <0.1mm thick and the tank is at 40ļC and the chemical is new. Weird that, might be my bubbler is not distributing the chemical effectively? At that size registration between the top and bottom plates is the limiting factor but I am working on improved jigs and fixtures. A background in PCB design, prototyping and manufacture also helps :-).

A friend has just got a direct to screen printer for his screen printing business so I am wondering if I could either use that or persuade him to sell me his old photographic process kit :-)

Industrials are probably using reducers from 10x real size to expose photosensitive brass. I had a brief investigation of that but seemed overkill :-)

Damian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Matthew-peter on September 13, 2012, 01:24:13 pm
It sure does look good, only problem is out of my era, Well done to those involved though  :NGF:

Look forward to photos of the painted versions haha
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on September 13, 2012, 01:35:51 pm
It sure does look good, only problem is out of my era, Well done to those involved though  :NGF:

Rule 1 applies :-)

I look forward to seeing it in Civils, Regional Railways (it is a multiple unit after all) or RTC Blue/Red Matthew
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Damian on September 13, 2012, 05:44:18 pm
With regard to the kit vs rtr argument I tend to buy kits over rtr because they take more time and are more fun. A case in point are the JGAs from the society. I am on my second rake of 12 and probably not as good as the rtr version but way more satisfactory.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Broken Neck on September 14, 2012, 10:56:09 am
This looks like it will be a great kit and one I would consider. I agree with Damian over the RTR/KIT discussions, if you do it yourself, I find I get a greater sense of accomplishment to just opening a box.

I wish the project good luck and look forward to the completed kit.

 :greatpicturessign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Damian on September 14, 2012, 11:01:19 am
I am keen on buying a few. Might have to whiz over to Tonbridge to get some piccies for paint schemes

Damian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 14, 2012, 12:53:01 pm
Thanks for the positive comments.  I can't wait to see them on other member's layouts. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: swisstony on September 14, 2012, 01:32:47 pm
I'd like one, I'm thinking I'll create a geared track cleaning device which sits within the body for it...
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: red_death on September 14, 2012, 02:34:27 pm
With regard to the kit vs rtr argument I tend to buy kits over rtr because they take more time and are more fun. A case in point are the JGAs from the society. I am on my second rake of 12 and probably not as good as the rtr version but way more satisfactory.

I completely agree! However in this case my point is not really about my enjoyment but the "greater good".  I would rather have say a RTR Windhoff from Bachmann and a.n. other piece of track eqpt from the designers who are doing this - that way N gauge becomes more attractive as the range grows.

The JGAs are a good example as the RTR and kit JGAs are different wagons so you get more variety!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on September 14, 2012, 03:40:44 pm
But, what if Bachmann don't make an MPV?!?! ;)  Nobody knows, so it's a pointless argument really.   :hmmm:  I'm going to have a working model ASAP as I'm impatient, so if anyone else does, then great.  If people would rather wait and see if one arrives from Bachmann then so be it.  Each to their of course. ;D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: red_death on September 14, 2012, 04:26:34 pm
But, what if Bachmann don't make an MPV?!?! ;)  Nobody knows, so it's a pointless argument really.   :hmmm:  I'm going to have a working model ASAP as I'm impatient

With the odd exception (no need to point them out) there isn't that much that they have produced in OO recently that hasn't been shrunk...

The point about being impatient was also an implied point of my argument...why not be a little more patient and the time spent designing the MPV could have gone on something far less likely to be duplicated?  A single unit MPV or one of the modern tampers for example?

You are right each to their own, but we have seen enough duplication both by Dapol / Bachfar with each other and Bachfar with kit makers over the past few years that I would rather there wasn't potentially more.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 14, 2012, 04:32:13 pm
You are right each to their own, but we have seen enough duplication both by Dapol / Bachfar with each other and Bachfar with kit makers over the past few years that I would rather there wasn't potentially more.

I look forward to the day 3D print is nice enough we can go around printing better models than theirs and get our revenge. The big makers duplicating some of the obvious kit stuff is kind of inevitable because many of the older kits cover the obvious things people would want (like the Silver Fox class 66 - I'm sure most of us are glad of the RTR one ;)). When I did the Maunsell kits I took it as given that RTR ones would appear within the next few years .

The NGS have slightly less excuses

Alan
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Ben A on September 14, 2012, 05:58:09 pm

Hello all,

I applaud the MPV project and am very impressed with what's been achieved, however I too have my reservations about the choice of prototype.

Although I think Bachmann will probably shrink the OO version down at some point (though maybe not that soon, as there are suggestions that sales of the 4mm version have been disappointing and all versions still in stock at the warehouse) my own feeling is that starting on a powered vehicle is very ambitious; and a non powered track vehicle such as a crane might have been an easier way to "test" both the various production processes and the market.

As Mike says above, with NGS products we have tried where we can to avoid duplicating other RTR items, or where we predict items will be produced (such as the JGA hopper and Autoballaster) we have tried to produce models that are complementary.  So our curved sided RMC hoppers work well with the square sided Farish ones, and our Autoballasters can be built in modern Network Rail types, or backdated to be the original Tiphook hoppers.

There have been a few clashes - the Queen Mary brake van supercedes the NGS's own own hard-to-built etched kit for example - but in most cases the RTR version represents either a clear improvement on existing products (such as the Snowplough) or offers alternatives not previously available (Ultima offer a fine kit for the 50' Inspection Saloon using printed sides but I do not believe these cover the more modern liveries such as blue/grey or EWS.)

Having said that, the response to the MPV is largely very encouraging and it does look as if plenty on this group are looking forward to acquiring one!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 14, 2012, 06:58:04 pm
on a powered vehicle is very ambitious; and a non powered track vehicle such as a crane might have been an easier way to "test" both the various production processes and the market.

Great thing about 3D print is you can print 3, think 'oops' and change chassis. It is ambitious but I think its great to see ambition. Progress through embarrassing failure and all that  :thumbsup:. The biggest issue looks like it will be weight.

The ability do different module variations is also something I suspect the RTR ones wont do.

On sales btw I suspect it's a very good choice for a kit at least. Departmental stuff sells incredibly well in N - no idea why but it's always been that way it seems.

Quote
alternatives not previously available (Ultima offer a fine kit for the 50' Inspection Saloon using printed sides but I do not believe these cover the more modern liveries such as blue/grey or EWS.)

The etched sides do...

Alan
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Ben A on September 14, 2012, 07:18:58 pm
alternatives not previously available (Ultima offer a fine kit for the 50' Inspection Saloon using printed sides but I do not believe these cover the more modern liveries such as blue/grey or EWS.)

The etched sides do...

Alan


Hello Alan

My apologies - etched versions would cover all liveries.  I was only aware of the printed Ultima sides.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: steam-driven boy on September 15, 2012, 07:10:11 am
Hi,
I will certainly be in the queue for this.

On sales btw I suspect it's a very good choice for a kit at least. Departmental stuff sells incredibly well in N - no idea why but it's always been that way it seems.

For myself I've mentioned before I blame exposure to the Gerry Anderson Universe all those years ago, very impressionable mind.  All those specialised vehicles with the notable disappointment at the time of Thunderbird 6, most of which barely saw a single use  :doh:
That's why I've got the N-Train Structure Gauging Car in my 'to do' drawer  8)

Regards, Gerry.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on September 15, 2012, 08:35:54 am
All those specialised vehicles with the notable disappointment at the time of Thunderbird 6, most of which barely saw a single use  :doh:
You can always use this to create an interpretation of Thunderbird 6 ... unfortunately there are no 1-14(x) Tiger Moths on Shapeways :D

http://www.shapeways.com/model/400374/1-144-sopwith-camel.html (http://www.shapeways.com/model/400374/1-144-sopwith-camel.html)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: OwL on September 15, 2012, 11:57:57 am
There seems to be a whole argument developing at present about this kit vs a ready to run model (which doesn't exist in our scale yet BTW) and reasons not to buy the MPV or for it not to be produced.

Instead of the usual gripers and moaners complaining about choice of model, livery, who else might build one in future, how good or bad it looks and generally starting needless arguments Etc etc
Why don't they instead ditch the whinning and whinging and remember that this project has been put together by a small team of people whom are not professional rail modellers, whom have full time jobs in other disciplines, have the usual needs of families, commit alot of unpaid time to run this forum and generally have to deal with 'nit pickers' whom in my opinion would struggle gluing together an airfix kit, let alone Organise and produce a kit such as this.

I personally have no need for an MPV on my layout however I will be first in the que to buy one to support the forum and the hobby as a whole.
We should be grateful that there are people out there whom support the hobby in ways such as this and help promote is growth and development for 1000's of others. :NGaugeForum:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Oldman on September 15, 2012, 12:46:13 pm
There seems to be a whole argument developing at present about this kit vs a ready to run model (which doesn't exist in our scale yet BTW) and reasons not to buy the MPV or for it not to be produced.

Instead of the usual gripers and moaners complaining about choice of model, livery, who else might build one in future, how good or bad it looks and generally starting needless arguments Etc etc
Why don't they instead ditch the whinning and whinging and remember that this project has been put together by a small team of people whom are not professional rail modellers, whom have full time jobs in other disciplines, have the usual needs of families, commit alot of unpaid time to run this forum and generally have to deal with 'nit pickers' whom in my opinion would struggle gluing together an airfix kit, let alone Organise and produce a kit such as this.

I personally have no need for an MPV on my layout however I will be first in the que to buy one to support the forum and the hobby as a whole.
We should be grateful that there are people out there whom support the hobby in ways such as this and help promote is growth and development for 1000's of others. :NGaugeForum:

Well said Owl,
My thoughts are it's great people are prepared to  put time,and dedication into new projects.
IMHO Without the small enterprises this hobby would be very boring. It is much too modern for me but it uses the latest cutting edge technology and should be supported for that alone.
I enjoy building stuff and there are many kits out there that people should try, they may not be good enough for rivet counters but you can buy aftermarket detailing parts.
Tank and crew have designed something that at this moment in time is Unique in N Gauge.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: NTrain on September 15, 2012, 01:21:27 pm
The team were aware of the possible downsizing of the Bachmann MPV, before committing themselves to the project. They were also aware of the fact that I had done some CAD work of my own for a model, and discussed this with me before proceeding.

I have to say that I am impressed by the work done and could well be interested in one for myself. All I can say is good luck with this kit. Even if Farish do bring one out, I am sure you will get a good run in the meantime.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: H on September 15, 2012, 02:11:01 pm
At the end of the day it's all about timing and availablity.

H.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: OwL on September 15, 2012, 03:30:28 pm
At the end of the day it's all about timing and availablity.

H.

And this seems a great time to launch it and good to see the prototype available at the N Gauge show last weekend. Well done Forum Team!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on September 15, 2012, 09:15:11 pm
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the masses of support - it all helps!

Very interesting discussion going on about possible duplication - if bachmann do one now or later it really doesnít matter, as we'll make as many as is required - no waste. Thatís the beauty of 3D and if just one person enjoys it then its been worth while. The beautiful bachmann OO version has the motor in/under the central tank - ours (at the moment!) has a totally removable deck so can be run empty. David who does the 3D cad stuff must be confident as heís working on the wood carrier module.

Having said that it is real pain in the motorising department. The motor bogie works reasonably well and it has pulled 7 VBA's on the flat & straight with virtually no extra weight. The down side is it's just too hard to find for sale anywhere, a tad difficult to install and its start/stop are a tad abrupt - But no worse than Iv seen at big exhibitions. If you can find one and want to use it you can have this MPV - now.

If you want one with a flat deck under each end to play with motorising yourself Iím sure we can do that too. FUD is nice to machine. Alan suggested the bogies from a Portram - this may work! Its got powered bogies in either half so you only need one tram.

Meanwhile - The search for an alternative progresses with tomix bogies and a 6mm coreless motor/gearbox....

And David would like to know opinions on the deck texture.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/thumb_2049.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2049)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 15, 2012, 09:33:43 pm
IMHO deck looks great  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 15, 2012, 09:35:27 pm
Looks pretty good to me
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: bridgiesimon on September 15, 2012, 10:01:20 pm
Timber version sounds very interesting,
http://www.penmorfa.com/Wrexham/three.html (http://www.penmorfa.com/Wrexham/three.html)
have a look around 2/3 down for a couple of examples of these running with some OTA wagons - Chivers kits to complete!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Ben A on September 16, 2012, 01:17:30 am

Hello again,

The deck looks pretty good to me too - good job.

Incidentally, while I applaud the development team for the work they've done, and wish them luck, the comments above about motorising the model underline that going for a powered vehicle from the start was a courageous decision.

I've designed several kits for the N Gauge society, none of them motorised, so I understand some of the difficulties faced by those involved in this project and have huge admiration for the sheer amount of work I know they must've done to get this far.

Nonetheless, surely reasonable and good natured discussion around the wisdom and possible pitfalls of selecting this particular prototype are perfectly valid topics for a model railway forum which invites discussion?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: OwL on September 16, 2012, 10:18:40 am


Nonetheless, surely reasonable and good natured discussion around the wisdom and possible pitfalls of selecting this particular prototype are perfectly valid topics for a model railway forum which invites discussion?

cheers Ben A.

I 100% agree Ben. I notice from your previous posts/contributions that you put a lot into the hobby and your posts/discussions are formed of experiences in this field and therefore your positive criticism is welcomed and very valid.
My posts were aimed at a about two members whom are openly admitting to starting arguments on the subject and funnily enough The same two whom have started similar arguments on other topics in the past they clearly know nothing about, just for attention seeking purposes/trying to look good.

Unfortunately their comments tend to do the hobby/concerned parties more harm than good and actually puts off people going for a huge project like this. One the hobby could clearly benefit from.
I will always welcome advice/constructive criticism/people pointing out things that may assist the potential project, but downright argument starting on a subject/field they know little about just upsets forum harmony.

All the best
OwL
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 16, 2012, 02:37:15 pm
Absolutely

If you are in it for the hobby make the things *you* want. If you are in it for the money - you are in the wrong scale  ::)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on September 16, 2012, 04:57:06 pm
Absolutely

If you are in it for the hobby make the things *you* want. If you are in it for the money - you are in the wrong scale  ::)
:laughabovepost: :thumbsup: :beers: :claphappy:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on September 16, 2012, 07:43:59 pm
Hi Guys

Were not doing this for the money - good grief we'd have gone broke ages ago. Its just because we can and its fun.

Meanwhile the nanomotor and gearbox idea isnít suitable for this but may interest you if you need slow speed tiny drives (wind turbines etc) or fancy re-motoring something maybe. Lovely little unit thatís runs on very low volts but when used with a tomix bogie made a farish 08 look quite speedy.

https://catalog.precisionmicrodrives.com/order-parts/product/206-102-6mm-dc-gearmotor-16mm-type

Plan C on the go now....stuffing the tomix motor into the chassis. 12mm diameter motor with 10mm across the flats into a 8mm high chassis - watch this space.

Also Iv been asked for a loco hauled version of this - its possible as modules sit on the same lugs as the cab. Question is will the jap bogies be Ok or is there a preference as to what else could be used. Comment welcome! Only thing is - it has to be available in sufficient quantities - unlike that motor bogie we were using! Lesson learnt here for anyone creating items Ė make sure thereís sufficient supply of essential bits.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 16, 2012, 07:55:05 pm

Question is will the jap bogies be Ok or is there a preference as to what else could be used.

I didn't know if you were going to print the dummy bogie, or at least bogie sides.

I'm guessing the more important thing would be to make the mounting on the chassis compatible with as many options as possible
for ease of supply I'd guess ATM or similar, it must be easier to get the dummy bogies than the powered ones.

just my opinion.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on September 16, 2012, 08:49:17 pm
Hi 37025

This is just a question for use on the possibility of an unpowered loco hauled set.

The jap unpowered bogies seem to be in stock and have the benefit of power pickup.

The UK alternatives can be made to fit - the mounts are different but they look more familiar.

So, a chance to choose a Uk bogie version - what looks best for this type of wagon in your opinion??

Regards
Russ

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 16, 2012, 09:03:42 pm
Hi Russell,

think I'd go for either

2002C
 
pair English Steel ESC-1 bogies, NEM pocket, mouldings only

   
2002D
 
pair English Steel ESC-1 bogies, NEM pocket, complete with wheels
 
both ATM and available from TPM.

http://atmwagons.co.uk/id6.html (http://atmwagons.co.uk/id6.html)

after all, would be under Rule 1 so your own choice, each to his own.

cheers

alan
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: red_death on September 16, 2012, 11:40:52 pm
My posts were aimed at a about two members whom are openly admitting to starting arguments on the subject and funnily enough The same two whom have started similar arguments on other topics in the past they clearly know nothing about, just for attention seeking purposes/trying to look good.

Unfortunately their comments tend to do the hobby/concerned parties more harm than good and actually puts off people going for a huge project like this. One the hobby could clearly benefit from.
I will always welcome advice/constructive criticism/people pointing out things that may assist the potential project, but downright argument starting on a subject/field they know little about just upsets forum harmony.

I don't know who this is aimed at, but it really isn't helpful. People (me included) have expressed reservations about possible (or likely depending on your view) duplication which seems a valid concern.

As I said at the start I know only too well the problem of finding time to develop 3D models.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Ben A on September 17, 2012, 12:46:07 am

Hello all,

The bogies are clearly a modern design with the distinctive depressed centre to the main frame.  I wonder whether the TPM Sprinter bogies might be a better bet, or even Farish Mk4 coach bogies (if they are available from BR Lines or similar.)

Having said that, I am not sure of the wheelbase of either of the above, and there may be clearance issues if they represent bogies that are significantly longer than those fitted to the prototype.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on September 17, 2012, 08:33:19 am
Thanks Ben

Info appreciated! - I'll get some 1700m from Bernard when we sort the railings out plus was thinking about some of the ATM bogies.

Mk4's wont fit - too long with the original coupler arm in place which also fouls the buffer beam details so cant really be chopped and glued.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 17, 2012, 12:47:41 pm
Other option is to look at some of the Japanese bogies especially those that come with plug in sides as you can then 3D print new sides without all the other hassle.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: red_death on September 19, 2012, 09:48:15 am
I'd like to apologise if anyone thought I was trying to cause an argument for the sake of it or to belittle the efforts of the developers - I wasn't.

But equally for the NGF to be a useful place we have to be able to disagree without fear of things getting personal.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on September 19, 2012, 01:47:08 pm

My posts were aimed at a about two members whom are openly admitting to starting arguments on the subject and funnily enough The same two whom have started similar arguments on other topics in the past they clearly know nothing about, just for attention seeking purposes/trying to look good.

Unfortunately their comments tend to do the hobby/concerned parties more harm than good and actually puts off people going for a huge project like this. One the hobby could clearly benefit from.
I will always welcome advice/constructive criticism/people pointing out things that may assist the potential project, but downright argument starting on a subject/field they know little about just upsets forum harmony.

Hmm, I think that is a little harsh...

There is no evidence on this thread of any arguments, nor have there been any unreasonable posts. I'm rather hoping that my original observation about a possible duplication by Farish has not been taken as a criticism, it was never intended to be so, just a valid question based on the well known and stated aim of the manufacturer - to have parallel offerings between 00 and N gauge.

Thus far it has been a well reasoned debate, with all participents wishing the project well.

There are concerns; particularly with regard to motorising the model. In my experience, the small four-wheeled motors are not hugely powerful, and don't like slow speeds. That may not necessarily be the case now (mine are a couple of years old), but anecdotal evidence from other Japanese modellers suggests it is. There have been reasonable suggestions made on suitable chassis, with pros and cons being put forward as to their suitability, and as I see it, this is the best way to settle on the best option.

I'm sure those who are producing this model, and those purchasing it, would like to have a suitable, and viable, source of motorising. Not discussing this aspect and making suggestions at this early stage will be to the detriment of the project as a whole.

Have the discussions now, and yes there may be disagreements...but would everyone not rather this was taking place now as opposed to a thread a few months after the model has been released asking how to motorise it, only to find the envisaged source of power does not fit properly, is under powered, or more concerning (and with the known production cycles of many Japanese products) unavailable?
 
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: pape_timmo on September 22, 2012, 11:52:08 pm
Just a daft thought about powering the MPV, what about using the power train from something like the Dapol 153/156 units? I haven't taken one apart to look inside, but maybe components could be built into the chassis of the MPV?

Like I say, just a thought...  :-[
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on September 23, 2012, 01:16:15 am
Hi Guys,

Discussion always welcome as I'm sure we can't think of everything. Your most welcome to disagree or agree with anything so long as you all respect the opinions of others. However I prefer suggestions, hints and tips. If you find a flaw, fair enough, please point it out and if you can suggest a remedy too as that's really helpful. Don't worry about the duplication thing - as Iv said before with printing to order there is no waste - we print as many as we need. Buy which you prefer.

To address a few points, and bear in mind all this was done on the QT for Chris to give you all a nice surprise. Initial thoughts were that a Japanese manufactured motor would be of reasonable quality for this project so was ordered - it then took some time for it to turn up and was a bit questionable for running and really needed the rest of the chassis to test with (despite running around in a coach chassis). Meanwhile David had already finished the CAD work on the chassis and as shapeways takes forever to arrive this was ordered. Only when the chassis and bogie were assembled with the pickup bogie did I get any chance to see what it really ran like - just a week before the NGS. Once running, its stable but, the start and stop are not what were all used to now. It's got reasonable traction considering it's only supposed to have its other half to run with yet still managed 7 VBA on the straight so we can't really slag it off - it works! Then we find it's out of stock everywhere - very useful.

In search of a better (&available) drive the tomix TM04 was ordered. With time Iv worked out how it can be mounted under the floor and David done the CAD magic to make this happen including and the new bogie mount. This is ready for printing. If it works we still keep the flat deck. Keep you informed as it progresses.

Maybe the researchers out there can help but if the TM04's run out I think the TM01, 2 and 3 all have the same bits? Then TM05 - TM15(?) are very similar but with a double ended motor.

We also have the power bogie sides also ready to print just need to do the pin alignment. No way forward yet for the pickup bogie sides.

Interesting suggestions about using a dapol 153/156 we had also considered the 121 but the though of trashing expensive limited run models made me go elsewhere.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on September 23, 2012, 10:49:59 pm
I have to be honest, I'm having similar problems with motorising the Metrolink tram at the moment so am following this thread very closely :-).

I have tried the TU-DEKI1 but the wheel spacing is too small at the moment (6.6mm). I am waiting for Bees to get a B2B Gauge to see if we can spread the wheels further apart to stop it from walking along the track.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on September 24, 2012, 08:21:37 am
Hi DATAjammer

Presume you have looked at portrams, TM-LRT01 etc? lots of variety in one place at plazajapan store on *bay.

Whatís the wheel spacing & chassis length your after?

Regards
Russ


 
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Lawrence on September 24, 2012, 09:17:39 am
Russell - here is a link to all the Tomix etc chassis dimensions  http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/ChassisDim.htm (http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/ChassisDim.htm)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: pape_timmo on September 24, 2012, 11:02:48 am

Interesting suggestions about using a dapol 153/156 we had also considered the 121 but the though of trashing expensive limited run models made me go elsewhere.



Understandable, I don't suppose they'll sell the chassis or components separately?

I guess it would add alot to the bottom line sale price too.

Well done so far though  :NGaugersRule:

Regards, Timmo
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on September 24, 2012, 11:41:18 am
Hi Guys

Timber modules for the MPV - Please have a look and comment on these....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/thumb_2106.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2106)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/thumb_2107.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2107)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/thumb_2108.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2108)

Its a two part module that fits back to back to make a whole one.

Regards
Russ



Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: bees on September 24, 2012, 12:25:19 pm
The timber module looks superb,  you should all be proud of how the whole project is looking, after all the effort so far!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: bridgiesimon on September 24, 2012, 03:10:48 pm
Timber modules look brilliant, really sows the massive advantages of all your hard work to hide the motor etc in the cab and chassis!!

Well impressed, I was thinking that the more usual modules one would be the one I'd be aiming for but this will look superb!!
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: class37025 on September 24, 2012, 07:09:08 pm
really superb, this whole project rocks.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 24, 2012, 10:35:48 pm
Looking really good.. and I somehow doubt any future RTR one will do the timbers !
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 01, 2012, 12:29:27 am
On the chassis front ...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorized-Chassis-TU-KIHA40000-2-motor-Tsugawa-Yokou-N-scale-/200793958333?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ec040a7bd (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorized-Chassis-TU-KIHA40000-2-motor-Tsugawa-Yokou-N-scale-/200793958333?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2ec040a7bd)

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on October 01, 2012, 08:24:20 pm
Thanks for the thought Alan but theres only one of them left.

Revised MPV chassis at the printers so we might know later this week or early next.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: sawyerm1982 on October 02, 2012, 01:59:46 pm
With regard to the kit vs rtr argument I tend to buy kits over rtr because they take more time and are more fun. A case in point are the JGAs from the society. I am on my second rake of 12 and probably not as good as the rtr version but way more satisfactory.

Damian,

I totally agree, I much prefer kits to RTR in a lot of case because I love the fact that I have made it and made it run... even if it doesnt look as good etc#

This sounds like a very exciting project, you can certainly put me down for one... I had better get saving though lol!

Good luck, I look forward to getting my hands on one!!! ps - will you be soting transfers for it too?

Regards

Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on October 05, 2012, 05:28:03 pm
Another possibility for a motor chassis.

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10139108 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10139108)

World Craft are seriously good, and you do pay for the quality. Again..as with all things Japanese, you are at the mercy of production cycles.

I like the description as being 'Good for Homebrew fans'! I'm not sure if it would ferment too well!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 05, 2012, 05:32:50 pm
Well if price isn't an issue and you want them for a long time there is also Zthek's rather awesome chassis

http://www.zthek.com/id149.htm (http://www.zthek.com/id149.htm)

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on October 06, 2012, 03:30:18 pm
A good number of years ago I purchased a kit from a small German firm which enabled the conversion of a Fleischmann DB Cargo wagon into the Windhoff MPV. I don't think they are still in business. About eighteen months ago I found a German Club site where a member had scratch built parts to make a Windoff MPV in metal. An amazing piece of work. Sadly he had died and his plans and bits and pieces disappeared.

I saw the Bachmann OO version and hope that an RTR version would become available as I am not particularly skilled.

However I think I would probably purchase your kit and have someone assemble and paint it for me.

Nice to see new technology being put to use for the benefit of N Gauge.

Congratulations.

Brian

This is the website, They mounted the motor in side a cargo container with a spiral drive to the bogie gears.
http://www.knmodelle.de/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=5:&Itemid=79 (http://www.knmodelle.de/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=5:&Itemid=79)

There is also an artisan who builds many items of yellow plant and Windhoff MPV items
http://www.gelbe-fahrzeuge.homepage.t-online.de/ (http://www.gelbe-fahrzeuge.homepage.t-online.de/)

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on October 15, 2012, 12:21:54 pm
Hi Guys

That chap has some truly excellent stuff! Thanks for the link Brian.

Quick update showing the new version of the chasssis and how it takes the parts from the tomix TM04 - thats a mockup of a drive shaft. As the ends of the drive shaft arnt easy to replicate in print the best option seems to be to use a tube (aerosol ones seem ideal) to exted it.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/thumb_2375.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2375)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/62/thumb_2376.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2376)

Regards
Russ



Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Ben A on October 15, 2012, 10:19:06 pm

Hi Russ

That does look good - and the printing looks to be among the sharpest and smoothest I've seen.  Very well done with all your hard work on this.  A couple of questions:

1)  Have you been able to test the chassis under power?  Is there any risk the the angle of the drive shaft might lead to difficulties on bends?

2)  The bogies you're using there appear to be designed to take push-in cosmetic outer frames, so could the kit include representations of the real ones?

3)  What are you plans for carrying power from the tops of the bogie pick-ups to the motor?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on October 16, 2012, 02:28:50 am
Hi Ben

Thanks for the questions.

   This chassis hasn't moved under power - yet (the previous one with the motor bogie did). I'v got a little time off later this week and may make some progress then. Plans are to extend the original drive shaft with an aerosol tube. The TM04 donor chassis has the motor driving at an angle so shouldn't be a lot different when mounted in this one.

   The correct frames have already been designed - just needs the 3 pins to line up with the 3 holes on the side of the bogie.

   Also for the trailing bogies were looking into designing a replacement frame & coupling socket to take the bits from a tomix 11-030. Meanwhile the tomix 11-030 fits but needs to have the coupler arm shortened by 2-3mm. If anyone knows of any easily available bogies with included pickups then please let us know especially if they look similar to what we need

   Power pickup to the motor - two ways...
Wire soldered direct to the pickups and if placed carefully to minimise bending it will last. (The previous version used this for testing)
Or
Recycle the pickup strips from the donor chassis.

Hope that covers all the points of concern.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: NTrain on October 16, 2012, 10:24:41 am
Hey, it just struck me that the design has a rather 'Lego' construction about it.

BTW, that is a compliment, as the design allows for a modular approach, which just clip together.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: RussellH on October 18, 2012, 08:45:43 pm
Hi Guys,

Quick update...

Drive shaft made from aerosol tube works fine for all speeds.

Chassis needs additional weight over the unpowered wheels to help pickup - then runs fine. Theres some room at the back end of the chassis or use a weighted unit on top.

Adding weight above the drive bogie gives better haulage - should be able to add some in the cab (roof & back).

Slow speed performance (using agw pe144 controller) is good.

And it took 11 VBA's for a spin...

Regards
Russ





Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: NTrain on October 18, 2012, 09:22:21 pm
Good news.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: Tank on October 18, 2012, 09:31:33 pm
Great work Russ. :claphappy:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype at TINGs!
Post by: roundhouse on October 19, 2012, 03:14:50 pm
That chassis look very good.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on November 10, 2012, 08:56:26 pm
Hi Guys

If your wondering whats been going on with the MPV project - not much as...

1) Were waiting for handrails before the first test build (and etches for the class 92!)

2) It outage time at work and also Iv been of doing a bit of this http://www.westcountrycarnivals.co.uk/movies/pages/H/id3627.php (http://www.westcountrycarnivals.co.uk/movies/pages/H/id3627.php)

3) Meanwhile - David got a bit bored and did this....
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Designed to use TPM/ATM bogies and has the same top as the MPV's for modules.

Its the intermediate wagon for MPV's - does it look OK??

Any thoughts??

Regards
Russ

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: class37025 on November 10, 2012, 09:36:50 pm
looks good to me, amazed at how this is developing.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on November 24, 2012, 08:54:18 pm
Russ was good enough to get a working model on Stoney Lane Depot today.  Did anyone see?  :camera:

Thanks to Red Death and H for letting us show her off. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on November 24, 2012, 08:58:21 pm
Sounds cool, any piccies?
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: steam-driven boy on November 24, 2012, 09:21:26 pm
Hi,
Saw it run - and it did look very nice - but camera wasn't ready, when I looked for it...
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
*
If I recover from effort as well as the joy of being at the show, and the shock of being able to be there, I might be there Sunday...

Regards, Gerry.
* will post some N piccies when I've sorted them out  8)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on November 24, 2012, 10:39:17 pm
Glad to hear that you saw it run Gerry.  :)

Russ has sent me a couple of pictures and a video...

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/IMG_0349.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/IMG_0350.jpg)

 (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/MVI_0351.mp4)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: OwL on November 24, 2012, 11:36:56 pm
Iam very excited about seeing this model. It is very good to see it in the 'flesh' and even more good for H and red_death to host it on Stoney Lane at Warley (thanks guys, a strong advert for Forum strength)

I understand that the model is at the prototype stage and in a very 'nude' condition however when can we expect to see a painted version? And When do we expect to see kits for sale? (rough ETA?)

I can't ruddy well wait!! :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on November 25, 2012, 09:56:51 am
Hi Guys

ETA is down to how long the handrails take to complete - the rest of its done.

Meanwhile as were experiencing problems with the buffers breaking off (post production/during posting) Davidís taking the buffer beams off all of the chassis and they will be a separate item - simple glue on job and FUD glues very well. Iv not knocked any off with normal handling so donít worry.

Also gives scope for different buffer beams.....wonder why....

Replacement log modules arrived intact - now supported by a sprue - looks robust enough to say they will be available at the same time.

Anyone else see it run yesterday? (I have added a little extra weight in the roof of the cab, and rear module).

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: iank84 on November 25, 2012, 10:58:38 am
WoW that looks great, to bad i missed it   :doh: I got carried away spending  :doh: :doh: :doh:

Top Job though guys  :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2012, 01:01:13 am
Thanks for the loan of the MPV. It looks the part and I do like the modular design.

I've got to say that the chassis that Russ has put together really did it justice. It ran very well indeed.

I am embarrassed to say that one ham-fisted operator (not me guv!) managed to knock the cab on the floor and break part of the cab. Fortunately Russ was gracious enough to accept our apologies!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: H on November 26, 2012, 03:43:42 pm
Yep, apologies on behalf of SLD (it was our resident steamy era operator who apparently didn't understand the modular nature of the prototype and the model) for the MPV damage.

I was very impressed by the running - it made it down to the depot and back up again very smoothly. However, it definately needs a quick coat of grey primer - which will bring out the detail and make it easier to view (prior to full painting) for it's next outing.

H.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MacRat on November 26, 2012, 05:22:13 pm
My first visit to Warley and I saw the MPV, standing and running in Stoney Lane Depot.  :claphappy:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/thumb_2703.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2703)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/thumb_2704.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2704)
The second was made for examining the quality of the surface. I got the impression the chassis and modules are printed from different materials as the chassis looks more transparent. The detail on the chassis is amazing. It might be the light and my dodgy photography that the edges on the cab and modules do look not that sharp, however this is just my impression and a bit of colour might change things. Only saw it running for a short distance. It looked good from the spectator perspective. Is it already DCC?

Thank you for showing it. I really enjoyed examining this project in development stage, not just reading about it on a forum.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2012, 06:05:37 pm
Hi MacRat

The chassis material is Shapeways's FUD and the other parts are a different material from a different printing company (I am sure Russ will answer at some point soon).

No DCC on Stoney Lane Depot  :laughabovepost: Some of the electricals are still evolving 5 years after it was built :)

The chassis looks easy to DCC from what I remember.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: memsek on November 26, 2012, 07:32:11 pm
Picked up on this project fairly recently.  I would very much like one when availiable - the real thing regularly runs through my back garden (well, almost) on the Merseyrail line that goes past the house.

I took a series of photos of it, albeit about four years ago, and while I'm sure plenty of research has been done into liveries and components etc., if anyone would like copies of one or two, or more, then please shout.

Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on November 26, 2012, 09:31:56 pm
Hi Mike

Chassis is FUD from shapeways - strong, lots of details but doesnt sand well - just as well as it doenst really need sanding.
Modules are from 3Dprint and the material is sandable. layering isnt that bad on this so with minimal sanding Im sure it wil be fine. Good fun as it arives in a block of wax!

See how Si gets on spraying it! Once its had its first layer of primer Im sure it will be clearer.

DCC ready for sure - requires some basic wiring skils to connect the bogies to the motor. I'll photo this later in the week.

Regards
Russ

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on November 28, 2012, 08:48:09 pm
Attention all MPV buyers!!!

Can anyone who is interested in buying a Windhoff MPV kit please Private Message Tank.  This will help us to know the numbers for bulk buying.  A PAIR will work out at about £200 - final price will be known when we know numbers (the more there are the cheaper it will become).

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: StufromEGDL on November 29, 2012, 02:21:54 am
Hi all,

Does this price include powered chassis or will this be an unpowered 2 car price.....with the chassis an extra expense?

Might swing the decision!

Regards,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: pape_timmo on November 29, 2012, 02:58:39 am
Sorry, another question, do you have an idea of timescale, as that'll need saving up for? I'd like one tho.

Well done guys, excellent work.

Cheers Timmo
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on November 29, 2012, 08:22:57 am
Hi all,

Does this price include powered chassis or will this be an unpowered 2 car price.....with the chassis an extra expense?

Might swing the decision!

Regards,
Stu from EGDL.
Hi Stu,

Look on ebay for 'TOMYTEC TOMIX Powered Motorized Chassis TM-04'.  Only £17 delivered. :thumbsup:  We'll be asking buyers to get their own motorised chassis.  The whole project shouldn't cost you more than £200 - but is dependant on being able to bulk order to keep the costs down.

 :thankyousign:


Sorry, another question, do you have an idea of timescale, as that'll need saving up for? I'd like one tho.

Well done guys, excellent work.

Cheers Timmo

Russ was hoping for the new year but we're waiting to hear from Bernard at TPM for the handrails and planning for someone to make the decals.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: trainsdownunder on November 29, 2012, 08:54:25 am
Whilst not suitable for my layout (American) and so unlikely to buy one at present, but I have followed the thread with great interest.

Congratulations and a BIG WELL DONE to all involved.

It's great to know that there is this sort knowledge, inspiration and commitment within the forum.

(http://www.freesmileys.org/custom/image/grey%5E_%5Eimpact%5E_%5E3%5E_%5E1%5E_%5ETop Marks  Guys 11/10%5E_%5E.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/custom)

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Lawrence on November 29, 2012, 01:30:31 pm
Any chance we could get Ben A to give this a mention in Model Rail, that's if his wellies have dried out yet  ;D
Might boost sales :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Ben A on November 29, 2012, 02:23:10 pm

Hi Lawrence

I'd be delighted to write it up for Model Rail and will do once I have seen the model in its final form.

As we all know, there are some significant milestones yet to be reached - delivery of etched components, decals etc - not to mention long-term testing of the chassis to judge its performance when mated to the body.

Also, it's important that the photographs are of good enough quality to both do the model justice and give the reader the opportunity to make a fair judgement.

I'd be inclined to see if we can arrange photographs of a model with all detailing fixed, though perhaps in grey primer, in the first instance as a "news" item and when the kit is launched I'll probably build and review it more thoroughly.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: scotsoft on November 29, 2012, 02:27:13 pm
Any chance we could get Ben A to give this a mention in Model Rail, that's if his wellies have dried out yet  ;D
Might boost sales :thumbsup:

Wellies all dried out, it is glam rock auctions now  ;)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: OwL on November 30, 2012, 06:47:15 pm
 :pmsign:

I would also like very much to see this model in Grey Primer at the earliest opportunity :photospleasesign: as other members have stated. Will the kit come with instructions on how to motorise it to a tomix motor or is it early days yet?

Great work so far people :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on November 30, 2012, 07:05:21 pm
I'm waiting on seeing her in grey primer too!  :D  It won't be long now!

I spoke to Russ this week and instructions will indeed be made for motorising the unit.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on December 04, 2012, 10:12:46 am
Hi Guys

Promised phots of the existing wiring so those who fancy DCC can see how practical it is.

(Also see what the extended drive shaft looks like when finished)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/thumb_2777.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2777)  
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/thumb_2778.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2778)

Loads of space for a decoder next to the motor.

Remember the other half of the pair is totally empty and has pickups - ideal for sound installation maybe.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on December 05, 2012, 02:54:39 pm
RussellH has kindly sent me some pictures of the latest progress.

These pictures show the modules from 3Dprint.  Sadly they don't have the quality that we need and compared to Shapeways they lack some details.  We both think that Shapeways is the way to go for a better finish - which is where the chassis is from.

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/P1020934.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/P1020932.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/P1020926.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/P1020922.jpg)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h287/tank_fv101/NGF/P1020919.jpg)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: polo2k on December 05, 2012, 05:05:17 pm
Shame they didnt come out as hoped, but hats off to all involved so far !!!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MacRat on December 05, 2012, 09:11:25 pm
Thanks for posting the pictures. I like the level of detail on the chassis and hope the shapeways print will result in a smoother finish.
If I may, some observations, or nit picking, what ever you call it.
Regarding the position of the buffers, compared to this picture http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/image.php?imgref=8149 (http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/image.php?imgref=8149) it looks as the gap between buffers and cab is larger on the print? Maybe the cab on the prototype sits lower than the modules, see http://www.petertandy.co.uk/MPV98959(3)_sona_211106.jpg (http://www.petertandy.co.uk/MPV98959(3)_sona_211106.jpg) . Also from the second picture i have the impression that the chassis section with the holes slopes to the outside.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on December 05, 2012, 11:29:30 pm
Hi MacRat,

Comments always welcome! See if we can sort them out.

I think the issue you can see is that we have a slightly higher/thicker chassis line and the cab also sits on top where on the real deal its lapped down over the edge of the chassis. This results in the join between the cab and chassis being higher up than it should be. But as thatís supposed to be all the same colour on the front it might have helped if I had painted the whole front yellow (but Iím not good with paint). Its a compromise for the under the deck motor. Hope that all makes sense?

Meanwhile the section of the holes - we have that wrong, ours is recessed and its flush on the real deal - see if David can sort that out on the CAD.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MikeDunn on December 06, 2012, 08:23:09 am
Russ,

I see what you mean - but the print does appear to have the buffers too low ...

After looking at both prototype images, and using the "thickness" of the "I" plate on the chassis side as a guide (does that make sense ?), the prototype appears to have the buffers at that level (ie mounted "within" the dimentions) whereas the print appears to have them mounted about half-way down & under ?

Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on December 06, 2012, 09:47:42 am
Hi Guys,

Phot of buffer height....
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/61/thumb_2797.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=2797)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MikeDunn on December 06, 2012, 11:11:03 am
Cheers for that ... so the buffers are at the right height :)  Still wondering, though, about the height of the deck ...  ???
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on December 06, 2012, 11:29:13 am
Its a compromise for the under the deck motor.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on December 06, 2012, 11:34:50 am
Hi Mike,

Yep deck is too high as per previous post - necessary to get the motor in. The motor is 1mm higher than the chassis top line (hidden by carefully shaped modules) and about 1mm hanging out the bottom of the chassis. We spent a very long time tweaking the chassis to achieve this. Sometimes compromise is necessary and once the front is all painted yellow we can have a better look.

As for the section of holes - the European MPV has the same design as what we created but the UK version has the holes flush with the edge but far less detail on the chassis sides. Personally we prefer the Euro version (thereís a first) but there s a strong chance that a UK chassis version will be appearing soon - flush holes and minimal side detail.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on December 06, 2012, 12:39:38 pm
Russell,

Its looking really good and the team should be very proud of what you have achieved so far!

Tony
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MikeDunn on December 06, 2012, 01:54:13 pm
Yep deck is too high as per previous post - necessary to get the motor in.
Ah, I must have missed or mis-understood that ...  :doh:

It does look good though  :D

Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MacRat on December 09, 2012, 05:19:32 pm
I'm in two minds whether I should add further nit picking. I have a lot of respect for David, RussellH and Bernhard bringing this project this far but the last picture posted by RussellH reminded me immediately of the high riding class 47.

My thoughts are
- The wheel flanks look a bit on the pizza cutter side. They're not RP25 wheels, are they? From the photo it looks like sitting on Code80 Setrack. Would be interested to hear how it runs on this new code 40 finetrax track. What's the back to back measurement of the wheels? Can the wheel sets be removed from the boogie so that the flanks could be turned down?
- Would it be possible to design the cab in such a way that it slides over the chassis to sit a bit lower? Maybe by making the  I beam a reversed T beam where the cab would slide over?
- Would it be possible to leave the deck for the boogie mount at the same hight but lowering the I beam over the boogie on the outside?

Wish this project all the best.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on December 10, 2012, 08:55:14 am
Oh bless,

The wheels are standard Tomix wheels as thats who makes the chassis. No idea of the profile or if it runs on code 40. The wheels can easily be removed from the bogie and have a back to back of 7.32mm - no adjustable afaik.

Perhaps one of the nice chaps reading this thread can let us know what Tomix items run like on Code 40?

Would it be possible to design the cab in such a way that it slides over the chassis to sit a bit lower? Maybe by making the  I beam a reversed T beam where the cab would slide over? I will ask but that will leave the lower edge where it slips over the chassis very thin which may not be printable.

The I beam is already to wide so making it wider is going to make this worse - meanwhile if you carefully study the phot you'll see the side frame is glued on too low - the axle centres dont line up with the spot on the moulding. If raised to the correct height I'm sure the gap will be fine.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 10, 2012, 09:09:52 am
The wheels are standard Tomix wheels as thats who makes the chassis. No idea of the profile or if it runs on code 40. The wheels can easily be removed from the bogie and have a back to back of 7.32mm - no adjustable afaik.

Seems a bit odd - thats below the minimum for N scale so won't run on quite a bit of track. The Tomix bits I have are all around 7.5mm which is what I would expect.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MacRat on December 10, 2012, 09:59:33 am
Thanks Russ.
7.32mm is probably a bit on the narrow side, though ok for most Peco track.
However, I had a look at the German SB-Modellbau page (unfortunately mostly in German language http://www.sb-modellbau.com/ (http://www.sb-modellbau.com/) ). They make custom motor chassis' - professional, metal frame, Faulhaber brushless motor, i.e. expensiv, but worth it (they're popular in Germany for replacement chassis, too). I could imagine that they would do a boogie with gears only and the specified wheel profile, if approached. An example of a motor boogie is this with 17mm wheel centres and 150 km/h (93 mph) speed at 12V - http://www.sb-modellbau.com/product_info.php?products_id=2028&cPath=247_249 (http://www.sb-modellbau.com/product_info.php?products_id=2028&cPath=247_249) . Do you know where one can get scale drawings of the prototype MPV boogies?
What is the dimension of the motor you currently use, btw? The smallest Faulhaber for 12V I've found has a diameter of 10mm.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on December 10, 2012, 10:10:38 am
Hi EP,

Rechecked the back to back and yes its 7.32mm - compared with some from a bachmann split chassis and thatís 7.35mm - not alot of difference.

No problems with it running on SLD at Warley, or any of the other layouts it had a go on.

http://teladesign.com/british-n-scale/standards.html (http://teladesign.com/british-n-scale/standards.html)
says Back to back: 0.290" - thatís 7.366mm

Hope that helps.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on December 10, 2012, 10:54:54 am
Hi Macrat,

Motor info is on post #85 on: September 16, 2012, 07:43:59 pm - 12mm wide and 10mm high - plus a flywheel.

Personally Iím happy with a £17 tomix TM04 chassis which has been seen running and works well with a decent motor and flywheel.

Your welcome to get a quote for a new custom chassis that will fit the MPV and post the results on here. The example shown appears to have no flywheel, is £105 plus delivery and wont fit due to the height and length. Only one from this manufacturer might fit and thatís got a striking similarity to the motor bogie we started of with which didnít have the performance of the TM04 but was functional - the TM04 is much better.
http://www.sb-modellbau.com/popup_image.php?pID=2144&imgID=0 (http://www.sb-modellbau.com/popup_image.php?pID=2144&imgID=0)

No ones found any scale drawling of any of this - its all been done from websites and photos.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 10, 2012, 02:11:10 pm
[url]http://teladesign.com/british-n-scale/standards.html[/url] ([url]http://teladesign.com/british-n-scale/standards.html[/url])
says Back to back: 0.290" - thatís 7.366mm


Thats an obsolete ancient spec. Track systems are either NEM (European) or NMRA (finer US spec)

7.35/6 is just scraping acceptable but will derail on some stuff (Atlas, Fleischmann 3 way)  but work fine on Peco and if the wheel profile is ok on Kato. As far as I can see they can be moved out a little bit (and we are talking fractions of a mm here so it ought to be fine anyway.



Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on December 10, 2012, 06:54:16 pm
Come on guys, aren't we getting a little too picky here? This is a project developed in these guys own time and unpaid with no intention of gaining profit and all you can do is nitpick!

Personally I think this is most excellent and am looking forward to getting one up and running. My chassis, Tomix TM04, runs like a dream on my layout and I will be delighted to use it as is!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: OwL on December 10, 2012, 07:33:11 pm
Come on guys, aren't we getting a little too picky here? This is a project developed in these guys own time and unpaid with no intention of gaining profit and all you can do is nitpick!

Personally I think this is most excellent and am looking forward to getting one up and running. My chassis, Tomix TM04, runs like a dream on my layout and I will be delighted to use it as is!

Simon

Very well said Simon. :laughabovepost:

Let's remember that the project is very freestyle, and not from the design bereau's of either Dapol or Farish. Let's also remember that this is an N Gauge model, and from where I view my layout (I have 20/20 vision BTW) this MPV will look just as realistic as any of my Chinese 'blue riband' loco's.

I can understand people providing constructive criticism, but let us not rivet count for the sake of it. :thankyousign:

Great work so far Russell :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on December 10, 2012, 08:17:17 pm
I agree with the previous two posters, while it may not be perfect, its affordable, it in N gauge, and being produced.

<rant> :veryangry: :veryangry: :veryangry: :veryangry:
Dapol and GraFar do not usually give such access to WIP stuff, nor do they accept fair critique.

If you ever try to criticise Dapol or question why they insisted on putting a coupler incompatible with any other British RTR stuff available the response I got back was "It's not my fault that other manufacturers are not as forward thinking as I am" - DapolDave.

So some of the 3D printed stuff may not be perfect, but its better than the usual alternative ... of nothing!

I think I can speak for most of the 3D Print developers on here when I say that its not cheap to get test prints done, and its extremely time consuming, not just to create the model in the first place (I am using SketchUp, others are using far more complex applications that take much more time to learn) but also in the lead time to get printed stuff back into your hands. Shapeways is usually about 2-3 weeks. If you notice something wrong, that's another 2-3 weeks and at £20-£50 a time, expensive for something that's no no use.

Likewise, purchasing chassis to find out its slightly too big, or its not got the power to take the skin off a rice pudding ... to find someone who uses an obscure track height and then complains that it won't work on his track, but then says he's willing to pay stupid money for a chassis that will work on his track but expects it to be included in the kit.

Get a grip guys, if its what you want, support the project, if its not what you want, or its not suitable, don't.

That's not to say I'm against critique if its constructive and valuable to the project, but if its rivet counting for rivet counting's sake, please do it elsewhere.

</rant>and happy again :uneasy: :uneasy:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on December 11, 2012, 11:49:41 am
 :thumbsup:

Got to agree with OwL and DATAjammer on these points.

Keep the criticism constructive.

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: red_death on December 12, 2012, 05:35:32 pm
Please, please can we drop this accusation of being rivet counters and the insult it implies.  All it does is create an us and them situation that is entirely unnecessary and ultimately unhelpful.  The reason I say unhelpful is it discourages people from coming up with new information or ideas for fear of being labelled as rivet counting perfectionists.

I think we are all mature enough to accept that there are always limitations to what can be accurately modelled and sometimes compromises have to be made (it is then down to the individual to decide whether to accept those compromises).

On the chassis front, I'm in the fortunate position of having run one of the prototype models and the chassis was absolutely fine so I don't have problem in saying that I don't think a more expensive German custom chassis is necessary - if for individuals it is necessary then that is their choice and they can decide whether they want to hack their kit to accept it.

Sorry to labour the point, but if people stop contributing (including constructuve criticism) for fear of being shouted down then we are all the poorer.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on December 12, 2012, 06:43:49 pm
 :thumbsup: It's a fair cop guv ;-)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on December 13, 2012, 10:02:55 am
Hi Guys,

All ideas are appreciated provided they make sense in terms of bringing a benefit at sensible cost.

Never mind if you think it possible or not - post it and let us see what it is - it may maybe possible, worthwhile and if it is we'll look into it further. No promises on anything - if its not offering value for money, a visible improvement or better functionality then its not going to happen.

Back to the detailsÖ.
EP - checked my callipers against a calibrated micrometer and they are spot on, so the measurements of back to back are correct for both the tomix chassis on the MPV and the farish RTR split chassis black wheels. I also went looking for the NEM spec and found them (plus a lot more - so thanks for giving me the push) and your correct in that the BTB is 7.4 to 7.6mm so both wheelsets are technically out of spec. Thinking about tolerances and application in the real world the difference between 7.4/7.6 and 7.35 isnít visible and is tiny but still can make a difference. We'll keep in mind the comments about fleischmann and atlas track and add that to the MPV info.

Whilst looking through the NEM specs one by one (I cant read German so no idea what the index page says) I did find the specs for the coupler head which has come in very handy.

http://www.miba.de/morop/ (http://www.miba.de/morop/)

item 356 is the couplers and item 310 has the wheel dimensions.

Thanks DataJ - yes, there are a fair few prints, chassis and odd bits here which can hopefully get recycled in some way so to minimise waste. So far the only thing binned was a squat cab. Anything surplus that Iím not keeping will be offered for sale here first, then ebay, before disposal.

One of the points made by MacRat about the Cab fit maybe valid. We kept the cab as modular so it can be put on the other end of the chassis (fits anywhere in fact) for a two-cab version. But this isnít now required as we now have a separate chassis for the two-cab version so the bottom edges maybe revised.

So what were looking at next is sorting out the cab to chassis join, adding glazing recesses to the cab Windows to take glazing sheet, etched window frames and etch overhead guard on the rear of the cab. Anyone thing of any other sensible additions??

As for rivet counting, in a bizarre twist of fate, our sister thread of the RHTT actually needs to know the number of bolts/rivets on the tank filler caps so we can do an etched replacement part. Either contact me of list or post directly to the RHTT thread if you can help with this info.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 14, 2012, 11:06:47 am
Sounds good to me... some of the other NEM specs are handy too - there is a complete set of the calculations to make close couplers and drawings for the NEM pockets. as well.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on January 28, 2013, 02:20:58 pm
Any updates on the project?? :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 28, 2013, 02:36:04 pm
Funny you should ask, as I was going to place a post today.  Russ will put an update on here soon, as he's just sorting a few things out his end.  No finished model quite yet. 

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on January 29, 2013, 12:40:25 pm
 :thankyousign:

Looking forward to the update and perhaps models ready for purchase later this year.

 :photospleasesign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on January 30, 2013, 02:35:52 am
Hi Guys

Thanks for patiently waiting. Were still here progressing where we can and as time allows.

We had a quiet Xmas as far as 3D work goes but our next order from shapeways arrived. Such a long lead time compared to 3Dprintuk who we use for the prototypes.

Main items for the MPV are...
1) The water tanks in FUD - awaiting undercoat (and that's in the post). Then we will see what the layering is like. (not really much we can do about this anyway other than paint and sand etc).
2) Replacement cabs in FUD with upgraded/corrected detail - these will be going onto SI who's progressing a write up on the build. (Thanks matey!)
3) The printed bogie frames for the un-powered/pickup bogie. Look great except the printing process has removed the cups on the inside that the pickups and axle points sit in. David working to correct this. Iv drilled one out and it does look good.

Once Iv got some primer on the parts I'll post some more photos.

Meanwhile - Module handrails are still in progress with Bernard.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on February 14, 2013, 11:12:11 pm
Ok, hi everyone. I now have almost a full set of parts for a timber cradle fitted Windhoff set including the chassis to fit into it. I can only compliment the guys involved as the prints are superb and the fit is exceptional!!

Over the next few weeks/months/whenever, I will build the model complete with a set of 5 OTA timber wagons as used on the trials in Wales, although the original trail was with 7.

There are a few items needed before final completion, as mentioned before, transfers adn the etchings are being looked into/developed but I am looking forward to having the all but complete model available to take to and trun att he various shows I will be attending with my Polpendra layout during the year. I will add info about those and confirm the models progress for anyone attendign who would like a look.

Anyway that is all for now, I plan to spray the chassis parts and the cradles this weekend. I am not a great photographer but will endevour to add piccies as I go.

best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 01, 2013, 09:04:24 pm
Hi Guys

Long time no news but as Bernard's getting close with the handrails Iv put together an MPV for a run tomorrow at...
http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/6873-Glastonbury_and_Street_Lions_Club_Glastonbury_and_Street_Lions_Model_Railway_Show (http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/events/6873-Glastonbury_and_Street_Lions_Club_Glastonbury_and_Street_Lions_Model_Railway_Show)

(But its only got one cab!)

I know its the middle of nowhere but maybe see one or two of you there?

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 01, 2013, 09:18:20 pm
 :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:

The middle of nowhere is always the middle of somewhere for some.

If I had been at my sister-in-law's for the weekend I would pop along but I won't be.

Hopefully you will post pics after the event.

 :photospleasesign: :photospleasesign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 02, 2013, 08:28:07 pm
Hi Guys

Quick snap...
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/thumb_3831.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3831)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 02, 2013, 09:32:05 pm
Russ,

That is BRILLIANT!!!!!! :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:

Can't wait........

 :thankyousign: :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: OwL on March 02, 2013, 09:38:55 pm
Hi Guys

Quick snap...
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/thumb_3831.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=3831[/url])

Regards
Russ


Hi Russ,
The model pictured, is it motorised at all or is there plans to motorise at a later stage? Great pictures Btw, and good to see the project coming along.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 02, 2013, 10:18:08 pm
Hi Owl

She's fully motorised (tomix TM04 chassis - see previous postings - 4 axle pick up and 2 axle drive) and was running quite well today - sadly I missed getting a vid of it - especially how fast it went at one point.

Its all fairly well ready to build now (that all the prototype bits - 2 revisions of cab since that one) - handrails are nearly ready from Bernard - Si will be posting about the first build so you all have some idea how it all works.

I know its been quiet but were still definitely doing this!

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: IanM on March 03, 2013, 12:52:49 pm
This is the first time that I have seen this and it is stunning. How do you sign up for one? :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on March 03, 2013, 01:00:24 pm
Please 'Private Message' me and I can store your message in the 'MPV Folder' for contacting when it's ready. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: OwL on March 03, 2013, 01:04:34 pm
When do you expect the prototype to be fully painted and decals applied?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 03, 2013, 01:14:49 pm
Hi Owl

Thereís an expert working on the decals at the moment, JP at precision decals is lined up to print them. Si is working on the build & paint and will post when heís accumulated something worthwhile. Other than that I donít have a clue - I donít want to guess but were closer to the end than the beginning. (and I'll be so pleased once we have them out there)

regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: OwL on March 03, 2013, 01:19:15 pm
Thanks Russ, and dare i ask what the next project is post MPV? ;) :D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 03, 2013, 01:34:07 pm
Hi Owl

Next/parallel is the RHTT - needs the same transfers too.

We've alot on the go and need to tidy up all the loose ends before the next biggie!
Currently...
Rapidos in various shaft lengths - see rapido thread
Hood wagons 9'&10' to fit the peco chassis.
92 - etches due same time as MPV
456 cabs - being a pain to get the roof right.
Delner patch for the front of class 57's - the pipework didnt print as its too darn small.
Add on wagons for the MPV (sh! - you'll find out what when the mpv is finished and not before)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 03, 2013, 02:43:07 pm
OWL seems to be the impatient type............ :laugh:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Newportnobby on March 03, 2013, 02:49:40 pm
Anything to put coal and water in? (and I don't mean 3D buckets ::))
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on March 03, 2013, 05:02:44 pm
Knowing Russ, don't expect any kettle based stuff, hehehe.
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on March 03, 2013, 09:58:13 pm
Thats looking very good.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Matthew-peter on March 04, 2013, 02:48:59 pm
Very good looking so far  :thumbsup:, although it is out of my era (just) I think it is great just how well this has gone for everyone involved. Been a few 'scares' through the thread but it always seems to get better and closer to completion.

Well done guys (and girls if any) involved  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on March 07, 2013, 07:32:03 pm
Ok, latest from my test build, please remember I am no expert so possibly a good person to be having a go at this machine!

I case I have not mentioned it before, I am building a timber loaded version which will run with 5 Chivers Finelines OTA wagon, the prototype ran with 7 but I think 5 will look the part.

I now have a running chassis with 2 axle drive and 4 axle pickups. Setting up the wiring was a little fiddly as getting enough flexibility in the wire but still keeping them under the load bed.

I spent a lot of time deconstructing the chassis making sure I did not break anything then remembered that most of it is not needed, oh well, more for the spares box! The powered bogie has a short drive shaft which needs to be lengthened by cutting and then glueing each part in the end of a length of suitable reasonably flexible tube, I used a section of tube from a can of spray cleaner ehich has worked really well.

I also found that care is needed when fitting the motor to be sure it is as low in the chassis as possible and then bedding the wires into blutac each side of it around the top.

It worked first time on my son's layout although kept on derailing on the curves, ok my son has rather tight curved so please be aware of this if you want one, I will measure his curved and quote this later as well. It has been running in and out of ht egoods yard through all the pointwork without any issues at all.

Opinion so far? Well happy!!!!!

(Piccies to follow later this evening)


Best wishes
Simon

By the way, Russel had the RHTT set out at the weekend and it also looks rather tasty!!!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on March 07, 2013, 09:54:00 pm
Piccies as promised -

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Full side on view of the unit so far, OTA wagon kits are on their way. The sections are only held on with blutac at the mo so the fit is not perfect.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Close up of the unit with the timber cradles, these lg loads are great, I got them from Unit Models -

http://www.unitmodels.com/product.php?id_product=433 (http://www.unitmodels.com/product.php?id_product=433) (usual disclaimer, only a happy customer!!)

Now for the Insides, (please don't look at the soldering too closely Russel, hehehe)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

This has been neatly designed for everything to fit, I may need to replace the wire with a thinner more flexible wire if running causes issues in the future though, needs trying on appropriate curves at some point in time.

Anyway, the more time I spend typing the less time to get on with some modelling.

Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: NTrain on March 07, 2013, 10:38:16 pm
Thanks for sharing your pictures and views.

You may find adding weight improves the track holding.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on March 07, 2013, 10:49:22 pm
Yeah, d'oh!!! didn't think of adding some weight, oh dear!!!

I will try it out and get back to you all.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 12, 2013, 09:26:49 pm
Hi Guys

Along with the 92 etch we now have the test handrails for the MPV! Thanks Bernard.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/60/thumb_4001.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4001)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on March 12, 2013, 09:31:39 pm
Those handrails look superb, they will make the units look very detailed, well done all!!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on March 12, 2013, 09:34:40 pm
 :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:  Very exciting!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 28, 2013, 12:05:44 am
 :hmmm:

How are things progressing now?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on April 02, 2013, 08:24:07 pm
Hi Guys
Think Iv found a problem with the chassis (limited rotation on the inner bogies) and milled out the offending bit on the ones I have here. David's done the same for the CAD, and just waiting for SI to pop round with his to do the chop on that (and sort the wiring out). Not sure how the railings are working out on the modules but I have the artwork from Bernard so it can be stretched and jiggled as required.
Were getting there - not setting any speed records but slow and steady progress.
Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on April 02, 2013, 09:04:59 pm
 :beers:

Many thanks for the update. Nice to know you are overcoming problems and that things are moving along.

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on April 15, 2013, 10:12:55 am
Hi Guys

While we wait for the first one to be built have a look at this....

S&C video unit....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4725.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4725)

not sure yet if this level of detail is printable...but we'll try!
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4726.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4726)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4727.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4727)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4728.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4728)

Regards
Russ & David
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on April 15, 2013, 11:29:57 am
TEASE!

 :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on April 15, 2013, 11:37:00 am
Nice - and would I imagine by a nightmare to cast or mould by any other means with all that interior.

Alan
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: red_death on April 15, 2013, 02:40:11 pm
Hi Russ

A few comments (sorry the reference to pics won't make much sense to most people but hopefully will to Russ and David):

- there should be a gap between the cabs and the roof of the modules

- the vertical stanchions are much thinner (I fear problems with minimum wall thickness!).   You almost have the roof in 4 sections (to match the ISO module bases), but it isn't - it is 1 complete section for modules 2, 3 and 4, only module 1 (generator) is separate.  Similarly this introduces errors in the stanchions - module 1 is separate from the rest and has its own vertical stanchion, but modules 2, 3 and 4 are all linked and share stanchions rather than having double stanchions. See pic 4971 for better explanation! (I've numbered the modules from left to right as per my photo).

- module 3 (the RH module in your pic 3 with the majority of the cabinets) I think is wrong.  Alot of the grey metal is just an L-shaped sheet with cutouts rather than shelves as you have it below (see my images 4974, 5002, 5005). 5005 shows the cutouts in the background and then below them some diagonally sloping boxes. 5008 shows the cutouts and shelving at the end of roof height cabinet in module 3 (you can see the rear of these shelves in 4992.  Difficult to explain!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on April 15, 2013, 03:22:24 pm
This is what he's talking about.....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37676/7610019436/# (http://www.flickr.com/photos/37676/7610019436/#)

http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p377636066/h112ABF0D#h112abf0d (http://paulbigland.zenfolio.com/p377636066/h112ABF0D#h112abf0d)

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on April 15, 2013, 03:46:12 pm
Hi Guys

Excellent feedback - thatís what makes this all so much more possible all passed on with thanks - hopefully David can make sense of that and adjust accordingly.

Tease? - Thatís not a tease - not really. If you want a tease thereís still one you haven seen yet.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on April 15, 2013, 07:34:07 pm
Hi Guys

update on the S&C video unit questions from earlier...

First off, in the first image with all the modules and cabs together you can see that there is a gap between the cab roof and the roof of the next module.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4734.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4734)
 
The image of the inside view of the centre module shows that there are no shelves in the unused side of the grey unit. It is just empty, although it might have been difficult to see that in the previous images.
 
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4735.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4735)

As for the three modules not being all joined together - it just the two centre modules currently joined together to make it easier to get access to the interior and grey units. It also makes it less cumbersome to have the four modules split in three rather than two like that as the motor is located under the centre module. This allows access without having to remove the rest of the modules. However, if it is preferred to have them as a threesome and a single, then it can be done.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/thumb_4736.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=4736)  

There is a minimum thickness for FUD, but the most important thing is making it printable and robust. From a side view most of the stanchions are only 0.5mm. But at the corners to provide a better support for the roof, they are a bit thicker at 1mm. 1mm is not that big except when you have a pic right in front of you full screen.

The alternative would be to abandon most of the roof and stanchion structure and go for an Origami etch kit, but were not really excited about that (enough fun with etch for a while). We wanted to make something printable that anyone could work with straight out of the box. I think that has been our approach from the start.
 
Red_death has posted some very useful info - are there are more voices out there with an opinion?

Regards
Russ & David



 
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: red_death on April 15, 2013, 10:24:03 pm
Hi Russ

I think you know my thoughts on the roof - the original idea I had for the roof was to do it as an etch. I'm not sure you lose too much by trying to print it but I suspect making it look good vs making it strong enough in FUD will be a difficult equation to solve! You might be able to cheat and use the two roof height cabinets to provide extra support to the roof - they don't touch the roof in real life IIRC but you wouldn't be able to see that on the model if you connected them to the roof.

BTW all the triangular fillets on the stanchions are missing. I assume they haven't been added yet.

On module 3 - it is difficult to tell from the pics but it still looks as though it has a "roof" above the cutout bits which shouldn't be there and it looks like the boxes below the cutouts are missing.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on May 12, 2013, 02:54:41 pm
Are any of the units featured on here available to purchase yet? Been watching for a while.

MPV
RHTT
etc. etc.

 :confused2:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on May 12, 2013, 03:31:26 pm
Not yet I'm afraid.  It's amazing where the time goes!  The MPV shouldn't be too much longer now.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: upnick on May 13, 2013, 01:41:30 am
Hi  All,   

I found these pictures on another forum   of  a  Network  Rail Windhoff MRV on the freight only line that serves Swinden Quarry on Sunday  ................   hope they are of use for reference  ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/95515358@N06/show/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95515358@N06/show/)

If you prefer the static picture set see this link   ......... 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/95515358@N06/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/95515358@N06/)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on May 13, 2013, 07:34:02 am
Thanks Nick.  Very good pictures and angles. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: upnick on May 13, 2013, 10:45:19 am
Very welcome Tank    ;)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 14, 2013, 05:54:19 pm
First thing is an apology for leaving you all waiting for soooo long, I am not going into excuses just leaving it at the apology!

Anyway, I have at last got my finger out and am getting on with the MPV I have on my desk in front of me, the log carrying cradles are now all painted and have suitable logs ready for them, I also have a set of Chivers Finelines OTA wagons to run with the final model as well ready to build!

I sprayed the cabs in undercoat last night, still not wholely dry but good enough for a few piccies -

Cab front view
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Cab front showing the roof detail as well.
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)


First Cab Side
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Cab Side 2
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Next task this evening is to replace the thicker wire I used with some loverly fine stuff, cheers Rus, then as soon as the undercoat is dry, a couple of days, is to spray the cabs before getting the thing together ad adding the most excellent etches.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 14, 2013, 06:09:05 pm
OK, a couple more piccies to add showing the cradles, logs and the OTA, please ignore the large narrow gauge thingy in the background, tis from my other layout, not N gauge sorry guys!!!

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: davieb on May 14, 2013, 07:16:11 pm
Hi Simon

Great progress you are making with the MPV  8)

And do I spy a Pug-bash in the background  ;)  :-X

dave  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: class37025 on May 14, 2013, 07:42:39 pm
very, very nice  :admiration:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 14, 2013, 08:09:16 pm
Do not want to hijack this thread with the pug bash so if interested, check here - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35993-hobbiton-end/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35993-hobbiton-end/) pug on page 4.

Anyway, have started the rewire so add more later.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Mirrlees on May 14, 2013, 11:38:08 pm
Brilliant ! Looking forward to this model.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 16, 2013, 06:59:43 pm
Just a quickie, one piccie of the MPV rewired with thinner wire, cheeers Russell!!

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Just a reminder of how thick the wire was before -
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Yeah much better!!!

Airbrushing the cabs etc this evening hopefully.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 17, 2013, 05:02:36 pm
BIG PROBLEM -

I am having an issue with the paint adhering to it, undercoated, no prob. Top coat of warning panel yellow, no prob. The problem arose when I masked it for the body colour, all the paint lifted with the tape. I am using low tack Tamiya tape which I stuck down onto the table first to reduce the tack further as well.

It is the first layer of paint which has caused the issue, help please!!!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on May 17, 2013, 05:54:29 pm
Soak it in Fairy liquid and water maybe theres some chemical residue left on the print stopping the paint adhering.

Paul
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 17, 2013, 06:28:59 pm
I will give it a go straight away.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on May 17, 2013, 06:34:49 pm
Soak it in Fairy liquid and water maybe theres some chemical residue left on the print stopping the paint adhering.

Paul

That may make it worse. Check Fairy doesn't contain lanolin before you do that otherwise it'll clean the wax off and then coat it in a film to make it look bright and shiny, but which is even more unpaintable !
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Mirrlees on May 17, 2013, 06:47:42 pm
Might need to varnish between coats.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 18, 2013, 09:19:07 am
One pair of cabs, soaked, cleaned, dried and resprayed with a different undercoat, this time from Precision so fingers crossed all will be well this time.

Will update later.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on May 26, 2013, 10:32:22 am
All painted now? ;)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 28, 2013, 08:13:25 pm
Delayed due to exhibition at the weekend but warning panels yellow and lime green painted now without the paint coming off with the masking tape - WAHAY!!!!

Thanks for the hints guiys, note to self, remember to clean items properly before painting - Oh dear!!!

Anyway, tomorrow I will mask and spray the blue sides then Thursday for the dark grey roof etc.

I have undercoated the etch for the handrails as well ready for the topcoat so really on the roll now!!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on May 28, 2013, 08:21:49 pm
Sounds great.  :)  I had the same trouble the first time I painted a 3D printed cab.  Now I wash them three times!   ;D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 28, 2013, 09:01:06 pm
As I am spraying enamel, precision paints, I did the last wash with white spirit just in case. Am please with them so far, the detail has not been lost and the colours seem right.

Must get on with the OTA wagon kits to run with the units.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 30, 2013, 08:54:24 pm
Latest update -
 
One pair of cabs sprayed with undercoat, warning panel yellow, Railtrack lime green and railtrack blue, all of which stayed on under the masking tape - WAHAY!!!
a couple of piccies -

Masked still having just been sprayed with the blue -

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Here are the 2 cabs as they are now.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

The next stage is to mask and spray the roof and the rear of the cabs grey, the flor panels and the water tank will be sprayed at the same time.

More to follow

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on May 30, 2013, 08:56:03 pm
 :thumbsup:  That looks great.  Very exciting! 
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Matthew-peter on May 30, 2013, 09:22:10 pm
 :thumbsup: Its coming on well so far
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: class37025 on May 30, 2013, 09:41:24 pm
looking really great....

but soooooo out of my era  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: captainelectra on May 31, 2013, 10:01:53 am
Quote
looking really great....

but soooooo out of my era   

Ditto. I will be producing some vinyls for these little beauties, though!  :)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: NTrain on May 31, 2013, 10:07:26 am
I don't have an era, just a small budget  :'(
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on June 02, 2013, 09:19:15 pm
Next update, the roof grey now sprayed as well (roof, water tank and floor panels), piccies to follow later when fully dry. This means all painting now complete til weathering.

Next stage will be a test assembly to see how it looks with everything on board, still really enjoying this project, mega recommended when available!!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Phil Hendry on June 02, 2013, 09:36:06 pm
It's sounding really great, and the photos of each stage have added to the excitement. Just my sort of rail vehicle too - I like OTP and 'oddities'.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on June 04, 2013, 06:31:19 pm
Quickie update before I get going, piccie of the, now sprayed, handrails which I plan to start fitting this evening. Lots of piccies to study first to sort out where they all go. Those I need to use anyway as I am doing the timber unit of course!!

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

More later

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on June 11, 2013, 10:53:38 am
Hi Guys

Remember a while back - the tomix drive shaft was to be extended using the tube from an aerosol can?

Not any more - its now a printed item to be included in the kit.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/thumb_5466.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5466)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on June 11, 2013, 11:01:52 am
That is a good idea, will make things much more straight forward.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Phil Hendry on June 11, 2013, 11:09:31 am
Hi Guys

Remember a while back - the tomix drive shaft was to be extended using the tube from an aerosol can?

Not any more - its now a printed item to be included in the kit.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/thumb_5466.JPG[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5466[/url])

Regards
Russ


Is FUD strong enough for an application like that? I'd have thought it was a bit brittle, and that the 'lugs' might sheer off under load, or the shaft snap at the point where the stress is concentrated - i.e. where it narrows suddenly.  A taper at that point, rather than a sudden change of diameter, would make more sense from an engineering perspective.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on June 11, 2013, 11:16:49 am
I would be inclined to agree that the torque from the motor would probably shear the shaft at the point it narrows to 1mm at the slightest derail/wheel lockup, WSF may be better for this component and it needn't be smooth as it's hidden away under the body.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on June 11, 2013, 11:26:36 am
Sounds like a trial is in order then Russell to be sure either way!
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on June 11, 2013, 01:13:05 pm
Hi Guys,
 
It may fail in time as per your predications but Iv fitted one to a chassis, power up the motor to max speed and stalled the motor by applying a force to the drive wheels - no problems - repeated 10 times - still no problems. There is a similar issue with the bachmann split chassis diesels snapping drive shafts when a split gear jams the bogie but as tomix don’t seem to suffer from split gears I don’t anticipate this happening.

Time will tell what it wears like  - we can always print more.....
 
PhilH - thanks for the positive input with a taper - will try to make this happen.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on June 15, 2013, 04:24:37 pm
Here are two pictures showing progress on the MPV.  Excellent progress I think!  :)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/thumb_5512.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5512)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/58/thumb_5513.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5513)

What do you all think?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on June 15, 2013, 04:44:43 pm
Please don't be too harsh about the spraying, it is the first complicated scheme I have done.

I have a set of replacement bogie side frames which is the next item to be prepared and fitted. We spent time today working through the handrail options and varieties on the MPV versions, resulting opion? a bloiomin minefield!!!

Having said that, the progess in this project is stunning, especially when you think that it is part time, a bit here, a bit there etc!!
Best wishes

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: captainelectra on June 15, 2013, 04:58:56 pm
Looks amazing!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on June 15, 2013, 08:34:27 pm
Oh, I'm up for it. From "Artisan" production it looks amazing!

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 15, 2013, 08:39:57 pm
Looks like an MPV to me.

Alan
PS: you've missed the windscreen wipers  :P  :beers:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on June 16, 2013, 12:44:19 pm
There is an etch in development for the windows which includes the windscreen wipers so not missed just not available yet, don't foget this is a developing project rather than the build of a complete kit.

Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 16, 2013, 03:02:21 pm
There is an etch in development for the windows which includes the windscreen wipers so not missed just not available yet, don't foget this is a developing project rather than the build of a complete kit.


I obviously didn't attach a large enough smiley face to the previous message

(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/big/big-smiley-006.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/free-big-smiley.php)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on June 16, 2013, 04:02:14 pm
don't worry, off my soapbox now! Sometimes I read things how they are not meant, especially when so much hard work has been put into the project and something like that is pointed out - apologies for the strop!!

Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on June 18, 2013, 11:43:39 am
Hi Guys

Ep - thats smile just isnt big enough! superb!

Anyway - updated smooth driveshafts.....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/57/thumb_5549.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5549)

An outline of the handrails...were re-working these to make a one for all etch and remove the top attachment point to leave the handrails clean and ready to a paint on the etch. Handrail locations - Sandite pair on the top, weedkiller pair on the bottom...
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/57/thumb_5550.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5550)
Handrial locations for the log train and handrail types...
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/57/thumb_5551.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5551)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Phil Hendry on June 18, 2013, 01:32:29 pm
Driveshafts look a lot better now!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Woolleysh33p on July 19, 2013, 08:33:30 pm
Looking great!

This could be a great earner for the n gauge forum

 :thumbsup:
 :claphappy:
 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on July 31, 2013, 10:49:48 am
UPDATE!

If you're buying the MPV then there isn't much longer to wait, and prices will soon appear.

You will need to purchase your own motor chassis, so if you haven't already then DM-Toys are selling the TM03 at £22.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on July 31, 2013, 11:20:13 am
Hi Guys

A bit of progress.....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6254.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6254)

Revised handrails - off to PPD for etching this week. Revisions are...
1) to get the correct numbers of the correct handrails.
2) removal of the attachment points on the top of the handrails so they can be painted on the sprue.

Other news is that we tried to create bundles of mpv's to get a better price but its exceeded the polygon count.

Were about done on this project - just waiting on transfer design and progress on the test builds.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on July 31, 2013, 11:23:35 am
Yay...
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on July 31, 2013, 12:59:02 pm
My test build will progress now that my new layout has been to its first show. Work on it tonight hopefully, apologies for the delay
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on July 31, 2013, 01:16:32 pm
Tomytec chasis ordered.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on July 31, 2013, 02:14:34 pm
Hi Si,

Excellent news - yes, was waiting for you to get your layout out and about.....
(worth a look!)
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35993-hobbiton-end/page-7 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35993-hobbiton-end/page-7)

If you can advise if the cab etches work then that will be good progress.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on July 31, 2013, 03:30:36 pm
Hi Ian & all

Aswell as the Tomix TM-03 or 04 chassis you'll also need a pair of Kato bogies 11-030. Seems a bit odd but were scavenging the wheels, copper pickups/bearings, couplers and springs - but it works.

This sort of thing...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Truck-Set-TR201-Long-Coupler-N-scale-Kato-11-030-/360510537332?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53f01a3e74 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Truck-Set-TR201-Long-Coupler-N-scale-Kato-11-030-/360510537332?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53f01a3e74)

There maybe other bogies with the same wheels and wheelbase but this one works for sure.

Would also seem a bit sensible if we created a bulk order for these to save on post?

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on August 01, 2013, 12:42:55 am
OK 3 motors and six bogies ordered.

 :bounce:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on August 01, 2013, 09:20:43 am
Hi Arrachogaidh,

Blimy that’s a statement of commitment if ever I saw one!

Just to clarify this further....

If your planning on doing one of the paired units - Sandite or Weed killer - you'll need one tomix tm03 (or 04) chassis and one pair of 11-030 bogies.

If your planning on doing the single unit aka S&C video unit then you only need the tomix TM-03 (or 04) chassis.

I reckon there a s good chance we will see a few of these in a reasonably finished state at the TINGS - which would be nice if I ever get cover for the night shifts off so I can go!

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on August 07, 2013, 07:45:12 pm
Motors arrived from DM-Toys.

No news from Gaugemaster about the trucks though.......

 :hmmm: :hmmm:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on August 08, 2013, 06:38:23 pm
Apologies for the delay my end, family issues taken over a little and a week away from Saturday but have now painted the etches and will settle down in a mo to fit them, piccies to follow, measurements look like they are a most excellent fit though!!

Update to appear later this evening!!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on August 08, 2013, 10:31:58 pm
One cab fully glazed in a piccie as promised.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Apologies for the terrible picie, taken on the phone as my camera battery is charging.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on August 08, 2013, 11:57:23 pm
One cab fully glazed in a piccie as promised.
This is excellent. What have you used for the glazing?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Mirrlees on August 09, 2013, 07:20:26 am
Hope all is well your end.

Remember family first !
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on August 09, 2013, 08:39:19 am
Glazing is plastic sheet set into revesses in the cab body glued with krystal kleer then the etches on top when the glazing was set.Sis in labour at hospital as i type!!


Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on August 09, 2013, 10:53:54 am
Glazing is plastic sheet set into revesses in the cab body glued with krystal kleer then the etches on top when the glazing was set.
Thanks Simon :-)

Sis in labour at hospital as i type!!
Best of luck with that one! :claphappy: :laugh3: :claphappy:

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: red_death on August 13, 2013, 11:09:11 am
I finally managed to track down a chassis for mine (from DCC Supplies - usual excellent service). Hopefully I will get the chance to clean up the print and start putting some paint on mine at the weekend.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: TheStig on August 14, 2013, 03:55:34 pm
Very interested in one of these! Have pm'd Tank!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on August 15, 2013, 07:04:49 pm
We have now had the decal design sent to us by Ben A.  Thank you very much for your hard work.  :)

If anyone can see anything that may need to be changed then please let us know.  This sheet will cover the various designs of the MPV.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6423.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6423)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: captainelectra on August 15, 2013, 07:58:48 pm
Looks spot on to me!  :D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on August 15, 2013, 08:43:38 pm
Hi Guys

Just a quick line to say thanks to Ben for sorting out the decals - thats the icing on the cake and another vital bit of the project sorted.

Regards
Russ

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on August 18, 2013, 03:18:16 pm
Way to go guys, transfers look awesome. I have been awsy this week and have another week off now so will be able to get my log set test build well developed. Updates and piccies to follow.
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on August 21, 2013, 08:21:54 am
Hi Guys

If as many as possible can please have a good look at the decal sheet that may help spot any potential errors.

If you spot anything then either post it on here or PM me. Dont leave it up to someone else.

This sheet will soon, hopefully, be moving onto print.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on August 23, 2013, 06:33:54 pm
Quick update...

MPV's ordered from Shapeways
2 weed killer 2 car sets
2 sandite 2 car sets
1 S&C single car

So, were finally moving towards filling the expressions of interest already placed. Do not panic - we will not run out we'll just print more. Iv only ordered that many due to cost.

Handrail etches arrived - with extra tabs added on the top of the handrails. Not as submitted so that's back to the drawing board to try and find a compromise to leave the top of the handrails clear and the etch coming out in one piece.

Decals - another pain - sheet had to be re arranged, quotes obtained and finally found a good price. Test print awaits completion of the decal colour separation thingy into several sheets.

And an appeal to you all out there following this topic - there's a new MPV unit that's been ordered from Windhoff called the high output plant system (HOPS) or factory train for the GWML electrification - 23 cars! If anyone out there has any info/drawings/photos etc there is a possibility of making the modules to go the mpv chassis. No guarantee but a possibility.

Don't worry about the HOWT - we have that covered....

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 23, 2013, 06:37:33 pm
Handrail etches arrived - with extra tabs added on the top of the handrails. Not as submitted so that's back to the drawing board to try and find a compromise to leave the top of the handrails clear and the etch coming out in one piece.

Tricky for large ones as without anything supporting the top or sides they tend to fall into the vat and you get a sheet back with a handrail size hole in it.

Best method I've found in those cases is to continue a couple of the verticals upwards and leave plenty of cutting room. That way even if you get a tiny bit left when cutting free it doesn't show much.

Alan

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on August 23, 2013, 06:51:01 pm
 :ngauge:
With several consists in one train, the HOPS will leave the purpose-built depot in Swindon and split up to head to different parts of the line at its 60mph top speed. It carries enough supplies and equipment to avoid having to bring anything to the trackside on lorries and staff can be picked up at stations en-route.

The different consists are:

- A piling rig, with two MPVs with Movax vibro piling heads, which literally vibrate the steel piles into the soil, 2 pile carrying wagons, and finally a Fambo hydraulic percussion hammer MPV for tougher ground.

- An excavation and concrete batching consist. This will feature an Hitachi excavator plus a Kniele concrete unit which will mix concrete from onboard aggregate, cement and water tanks.

- A structures consist, which will erect the Series One masts, portal booms and twin track cantilevers. It is intended to carry 30 masts for erection, per night.

- Ancillary conductor consist, which will install the earthing wires, return wires and small parts such as registration arms and other equipment.

- The contact and catenary consist, which will string up the remaining wires, under tension. Another unit install other articles such as contenary wires under low bridges, neutral sections and record information such as height and stagger.

Each consist will include two MPVs with full driving cabs, powered by MTU power packs, which can be driven at 60mph off-site. On site driving cabs will allow the train to be driven very slowly in possessions, such as when installing contact wire.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on August 23, 2013, 06:54:24 pm
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/imagelibrary/default.aspx?NewsAreaId=28&SubjectID=677 (http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/imagelibrary/default.aspx?NewsAreaId=28&SubjectID=677)

Pictures here of parts of HOPS under construction
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 23, 2013, 08:23:29 pm
Not sure it's a job I'd like to be near. The last construction work near Bridgend Station they found unexploded bombs and some of the paths into Swansea were heavily bombed too.

Alan
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on August 23, 2013, 08:56:31 pm
Hi Alan,

Were looking at thin side supports midway up the side of each handrail - will be less visible to the finished product. See if I can post the revised plan when its done.

I dont know why the bottom supports were insufficient but just like you said there was a mention of handrail size holes in the etch. Bizarre as stainless is hard and not at all easy to cut out of the sheet compared to brass.

only~me
Thanks - I'd already found all that including the side view of the whole consist (WOW!) but not really usable.

Thoughts of a mpv with a riot mesh on the windscreen!!...

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on August 23, 2013, 08:58:18 pm
I think the mesh will be for when they pass through Cardiff!!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on August 30, 2013, 02:06:53 pm
Hi Guys

While poking around with the decals Iv found this website which maybe of interest if you need a font identifying...

http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/ (http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/)

Clip and image so its mostly text, upload then help the website select the letters and it then tells you which fonts are a match.

The clearing Britain's railways on the MPV is evidently Souvenir Medium.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on September 02, 2013, 05:55:02 pm
Hi Guys

A couple of quick shots of Simons test build "logs" MPV with some of the prototype handrails fitted and cabs glazed with the etches on.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6681.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6681)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/56/thumb_6682.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6682)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on September 03, 2013, 07:36:54 am
It's coming along very well.  Good work Simon. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on September 05, 2013, 03:51:09 pm
I also got some film of it wandering around Russel's great layout but am still working out how to get the footage off my phone and onto here! Unit worked really well, ran well although i seem to have wired it up the wrong way around - D'oh!!

I will be bringing it along on Sunday for anybody around to get a look at.

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on September 08, 2013, 09:18:45 pm
Anybody get a look at the MPV family in the flesh? Seems quiet on here!

Anyway I took some piccies for the people unable to get the TINGS over the weekend -

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Anyway, hope you like them, they did look amazing side by side, I am most impressed!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: NTrain on September 08, 2013, 09:53:37 pm
Damn. I forgot to take some pictures while rushing round with my camera.

I did get to see some of them in the flesh and thought 'not bad'  :drool:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Ollie3440 on September 08, 2013, 10:00:31 pm
I had a look at these over the weekend and the certainly look the part! And i have to admit to being rather amused that the NGF Banner advertising them had my Bubblecar, 67 and Tornado on them :P

Ollie

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Andy T on September 08, 2013, 10:05:05 pm
Saw them in the flesh yesterday , Very Very Mouthwatering , Very Tempted .  :drool:
Keep up the good work guys  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: StufromEGDL on September 09, 2013, 08:56:34 am
I had a look at these over the weekend and the certainly look the part! And i have to admit to being rather amused that the NGF Banner advertising them had my Bubblecar, 67 and Tornado on them :P

Ollie

 :NGaugersRule:

Hi Ollie;

You can blame me for the banner...did a quick screengrab to provide some sort of publicity for the NGF to advertise the progress on the products.  The NR yellow and 1 x Railtrack MPV are back with me for further work.

Will have to arrange with Tank about getting them to Peterborough for the meet-up as I won't be there.  Hoping for more paintwork, detailing and some decals by then!!

Later;
STU from EGDL
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Ben A on September 09, 2013, 09:03:26 am

Hello all,

I had a good look on Saturday.   Even picked up the yellow one (and one of the modules fell off - apologies! - luckily fell onto the table and was unhurt...)  Well done to everyone involved in getting them to this stage. 

I took a snap but I still can't seem to work out how to load images onto NGF - there isn't an upload button like there is on RM Web or am I looking in the wrong place?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Caz on September 09, 2013, 09:45:24 am

I took a snap but I still can't seem to work out how to load images onto NGF - there isn't an upload button like there is on RM Web or am I looking in the wrong place?

cheers

Ben A.


Hi Ben,

Have a look here, this should help you.  http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=4300.msg48938#msg48938 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=4300.msg48938#msg48938)

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on September 09, 2013, 10:43:53 pm
Hi Guys.

Just to clear up any confusion as its been pointed out to me that we are (David and myself) getting mixed up with others elsewhere! Not surprising with similar names and all - we are NOT anything to do with BMTHtrains, David that’s on Rmweb, or modern image models etc thats does the track maintenance stuff.

We are whole and solely on here as we like it here - and not over there....

If you do see any name on the parts from us its 3DR designs

Thanks
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on September 10, 2013, 10:29:26 am
Hi Guys

Just to add a couple more pics of the MPV's at TINGS...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_6947.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6947)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/55/thumb_6948.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=6948)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on September 10, 2013, 05:53:27 pm
Great photo's from everyone. :camera:

I've Private Messaged those who were initially interested in buying an MPV.  I will soon be putting some listings on the Classifieds for them so that other members can buy them.

This will also include some of the other 3D printed items.

 :NGF:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: porkie on September 10, 2013, 06:46:45 pm
Sorry for going off topic...

Those blue and yellow wagons in the back ground of the last few pics.

Are they a kit or scratch built ?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on September 10, 2013, 06:51:06 pm
Sorry for going off topic...

Those blue and yellow wagons in the back ground of the last few pics.

Are they a kit or scratch built ?


You'll be wanting this thread....  http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=13011.msg131741#msg131741 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=13011.msg131741#msg131741)  :)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Bmthtrains on September 11, 2013, 10:38:39 am
Hi Guys.

Just to clear up any confusion as its been pointed out to me that we are (David and myself) getting mixed up with others elsewhere! Not surprising with similar names and all - we are NOT anything to do with BMTHtrains, David that’s on Rmweb, or modern image models etc thats does the track maintenance stuff.

We are whole and solely on here as we like it here - and not over there....

If you do see any name on the parts from us its 3DR designs

Thanks
Russ

Yup, definitely not me! :)

Thought I had better join this forum anyway after meeting a few of you at TINGS this weekend. The MPV looks stunning, I may be tempted to get one for my layout.

David / Bmthtrains / Modern Image Models
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on September 16, 2013, 01:25:30 pm
Hi Guys,

Quick update - dispatch of orders currently on hold until either shapeways stop sending bent items or we find somewhere else to print them.

Thanks for you patience.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on September 16, 2013, 01:33:36 pm
Depending upon the nature of the bend

- if the open shell is folding in or out at the bottom put a couple of 1mm square bars across the bottom that can be removed after printing. I had that problem with several of my railbus type prints and that was Shapeways advice which does seem to have cured it.

- if its long flat and bending then yes it will, FUD is a resin, you can add a removable supporting frame  which helps or you can dunk it in water about 70¬įC and just ease it back into shape. Unlike a lot of resins it then seems to stay in shape. The stronger approach for thicker objects like masts is to print some 0.6-0.7mm dia holes through it and thread glue covered 0.5mm steel or brass rod up it.

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on September 16, 2013, 01:49:04 pm
Hi EP

Thanks for the tips - thing is its the chassis which is fairly chunky - its quite substantial and has come with two different types of bends - some where the ends are bowed upwards and the latest where its sideways when viewed from above. Yes- we can and have straightened with hot water but the time and workload where I have to do a whole batch is time Id prefer to spend elsewhere.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: steam-driven boy on September 16, 2013, 02:12:27 pm
Hi Russ,
Yes- we can and have straightened with hot water but the time and workload where I have to do a whole batch is time Id prefer to spend elsewhere.
And we also know that Shapeways can and should print these correctly.

Regards, Gerry  8)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on September 22, 2013, 02:27:38 pm
Hi Guys

Quick update for those waiting - Shapeways are in the process of doing reprints. Bless em!

Fingers crossed!

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on October 03, 2013, 10:08:29 am
Hi Guys

Shapeways reprints arrived - some Ok - some bendy. Sufficient good ones to send orders out so back in production again. Thanks for your patience.

regards
Russ

 
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on October 04, 2013, 05:42:26 pm
Hi Guys,

Good news! Comprehensive decals for the MPV are now available from John Peck at precision decals priced £11.25. Its a very comprehensive sheet beautifully designed by BenA.

http://www.precisionlabels.com/payment.html?11.25&2mm-MPV-Decals-Revised (http://www.precisionlabels.com/payment.html?11.25&2mm-MPV-Decals-Revised)

Thats another bit sorted - just the handrails to finish.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: mr bachmann on October 04, 2013, 07:56:27 pm
these things are looking smart , but sees backy have done them in 00 , i dont think it will be long - espesh now they have the corless motor , and after all the'll promise a nice factory finish .....


mr bachmann

(  :veryangry: loud ranting from behind ...  :laugh: )
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on October 04, 2013, 08:44:52 pm
Just bought my decals, I can't wait to see them!

Yes we know that Bachmann made them in OO.  No news of them downsizing them though. ;)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bees on October 05, 2013, 09:29:16 am
I've watched this project from the outset in awe of the whole project, you's have all done an immense job!
I have to say that albeit Bachmann could poasibly bring this out in the future, i very much doubt they would bring it out with all features and add ons that this project has included.
Well done gents!!!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on October 05, 2013, 10:05:56 am
Thanks for the kind words Bees - appreciated!

Chris,
Decals are much like those on page 19 of this thread except theres a bit more on there. Basically a packed quarter of a sheet of A4.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on October 06, 2013, 09:51:39 pm
MPV's are now for sale on the Classifieds section of the forum. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: captainelectra on October 07, 2013, 08:00:33 am
I am seriously tempted, despite these being WAYYYY out of my chosen modelling period.  :)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on October 07, 2013, 09:12:12 am
I think you should have one.  ;) :D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: 60006 on October 11, 2013, 06:15:11 pm
Hi chaps,

After reading through all this I'm incredibly impressed with the entire project and intend to get at least one kit at some point in the (hopefully) not too distant future.
Only problem I seem to be having is finding anywhere that has the Tomix TM04 chassis in stock. Have tried DM Toys, DCC Supplies, eBay and a few others but to no avail.
Anyone know of somewhere that does have them in stock for a decent price?

Thanks,
Tom.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on October 11, 2013, 06:29:29 pm
Ebay seller PLAZAJAPAN plenty and cheapest!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on October 11, 2013, 06:36:56 pm
Hi Guys,

Cant see any TM03 or TM04 chassis on plaza. No harm asking them.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomytec-N-gauge-Bo-Bo-Scale-12m-Chassis-009-/190922595257 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomytec-N-gauge-Bo-Bo-Scale-12m-Chassis-009-/190922595257) is th only one I know of.

Regards
Russ

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: 60006 on October 11, 2013, 06:41:43 pm
Thanks for the quick replies chaps.

Indeed, no sign of any on Plaza for the moment but will keep my eyes peeled I suppose.
If I remember rightly the TM04 was a little cheaper than the one from that seller so will hold off for now.

How are stocks looking for the MPV itself? I know it's best to buy ASAP to avoid disappointment but it's not quite possible for the time being.

Tom.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: mr bachmann on October 11, 2013, 07:46:28 pm
they still look tempting , but i'll wait till Backy anounce a Farish one ,

mr bachmann

(  :dunce: )
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on October 11, 2013, 08:08:32 pm
they still look tempting , but i'll wait till Backy anounce a Farish one ,

mr bachmann

(  :dunce: )


We'll all be dead by then!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on October 11, 2013, 08:32:08 pm
Thanks for the quick replies chaps.

Indeed, no sign of any on Plaza for the moment but will keep my eyes peeled I suppose.
If I remember rightly the TM04 was a little cheaper than the one from that seller so will hold off for now.

How are stocks looking for the MPV itself? I know it's best to buy ASAP to avoid disappointment but it's not quite possible for the time being.

Tom.

Got my three from DM Toys, but I ordered very early when the MPV's were still in development. Still awaiting the Kato bogies from Gaugemaster though.    :-X
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: kiwi1941 on October 11, 2013, 09:17:44 pm
Juat want to check that I've got this right. Can the "NGF - Windhoff MPV (Multi Purpose Vehicle) - EXTRA MODULES ONLY" be used as a basis for loco-hauled RHTT wagons. If so, which chassis should they be mounted on for greatest authenticity. Finally - what's the postage to New Zealand? TIA, Brian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on October 11, 2013, 09:21:31 pm
No but the rhtt s being developed and fits the dapol spine wagon i think.
Will check and let you know.
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on October 11, 2013, 09:25:13 pm
Yep, dapol fea spine set, internal end buffer beams ae also being done. Have a look in the 3d models section and rail head treatment train. I have seen it and looks most impressive!!
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: 60006 on October 12, 2013, 09:44:09 am
Contacted plaza last night and got a reply this morning. They stated that tomix/tomytec haven't got any left and at the moment there's no plans to remanufacture. Oh dear.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on October 12, 2013, 10:05:57 am
Contacted plaza last night and got a reply this morning. They stated that tomix/tomytec haven't got any left and at the moment there's no plans to remanufacture. Oh dear.


Oh my that puts a bit of a spanner on the proceedings! Will any other chassis work?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: 60006 on October 12, 2013, 01:06:24 pm
Just had a reply now from DM Toys. They say there is stock expected in 2-3 weeks. Conflicting information now. Let's hope DM pulls through.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on October 12, 2013, 02:33:36 pm
Hi Guys,

TM-03 or TM-04 is the only ones I know if that fit at the moment. Doesn’t help that others decided to use the same chassis for their kits/projects with the inevitable short supply so were all stuffed until more stocks turn up at sensible prices. Meanwhile wellington models have them ~£25each. Not as cheap as elsewhere but UK based...
http://www.wellingtonmodels.com/www.wellingtonmodels.coms/info.php?p=5 (http://www.wellingtonmodels.com/www.wellingtonmodels.coms/info.php?p=5)
Or via ebay…as per previous link

Meantime if anyone finds a source of these please post the info on here.

Stocks of MPV - not a problem - you want more we'll print more - no limit - no rush. Iv a few sandites in stock.

As for waiting for bachmann to announce one - carry on waiting. Even in their OO version, beautiful though it is, the motor isnt under the floor, ours has a fully under floor motor so can be run empty. All the modules are removable and you can swap out cabs with different liveries to run on the same chassis for doing the HOWT - that’s got white cabs. We have sandite, weedkiller, s&c and logs versions. HOWT is practically complete - just waiting for main MPV handrails to be completed before we move on - that’s 5 different wagons. As you do your own wiring DCC will be easy to add and there is plenty of room in the unpowered chassis for sound. If you want lights then drill the cab and add them - theres room. We covered as much as possible - But if you must have it painted & RTR wait for Bachmann.

"extra modules only" is for those with a sandite MPV wishing to add the required modules to make a weed killer MPV aswell. If your after the RHTT then we've a separate thread for that - I wanted to get the MPV out first and were more or less there on that. RHTT Decals are in design stage but the modules and handrails are all done with a test build underway. And yes we even have the required buffer beams and extended couplers to convert the FEA-B to FEA-F singles (abbreviations I hope are correct!).

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on October 19, 2013, 12:49:38 pm
Hi Guys,

Handrails have arrived....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/thumb_7592.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=7592)

After all that work we have finally got handrails free of attachment points on the top of the handrail. A lot of work went into this so hope it worth it.

Those already waiting patiently for their handrails (and maybe drive shaft) will receive them this week and, of those waiting, if you want some free etch ladder then PM me before Monday please.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: StufromEGDL on October 19, 2013, 02:28:13 pm
Good News Russ...

SWW in OAKN
(Itching to get some modelling done on my return to the UK!!)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on October 23, 2013, 10:25:28 am
The MPV arrived yesterday and I have now cleaned up the parts. very nice fitting parts.

There is an ever so slight bow in the unpowered chassis but I can probably get round that by fitting a piece of brass in the well. Not too keen on heating it up incase i do soem damage.

The motor out of the Tomytek tm04 is now temporarily in place. I did forget to order some Kato trucks so will look through my spares box for anything suitable. Does any one know if someone in the UK has these in stock?

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: fordpop on October 26, 2013, 06:56:54 am
I've just stumbled across this thread, I'm must admit to not fully reading the whole 23 pages  :D but I'm interested in this & will got back through:)

Do I have to wait until I can see the classified ads to order?

Dave
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on October 26, 2013, 05:45:35 pm
No you don't have to use the Classifieds....it's just the best way for me to sell them at present. :worried:

If you'd like to send £146 through paypal to  :ngfemailsign: and make sure your address is there please.  Any problems then feel free to Private Message me.

Thank you!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on October 26, 2013, 10:38:22 pm
My Windhoff had its first test run today on 'Banbury'
Still very incomplete and on temporary rear bogies so only picking up on the driving bogie. It ran well  except for the occasional stutter over track joints. Any slight bow in the chassis is not now noticeable and certainly did not affect the running.

Tonight the cab over the driving bogie got some extra weight and better couplings in the temporary bogies.
Its a lovely model to assemble.

It will be running again at the show in Seaford tomorrow and hopefully nearing completion at Wycrail next Saturday.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on October 27, 2013, 01:46:49 pm
Great to hear it Ian.  :)  I've just had my handrails delivered, so shall be spraying them shortly.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on November 01, 2013, 09:05:25 am
The MPV is now nearly fully painted. I am still waiting for the Kato bogies to arrive so not too sure if it will be fully working this weekend at Wycrail.

Hopefully the decals and glazing will go on tonight.

If it isn't running then it will be sitting in the sidings during the show.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: StufromEGDL on November 01, 2013, 09:24:47 am
Must get a wiggle on with the pair I have....
Bit difficult when they are 350 miles away till after the weekend though!!

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on January 01, 2014, 11:41:11 am
Hi Guys

Straight forward question to all those interested but not yet taken the plunge to buy one - any particular reason that's stopping you? Not particularly concerned about era, location, period etc as a good dose of rule 1 can deal with that if required - more interested in what the kits failing to offer you?

What more can we do?

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Buzzard on January 01, 2014, 12:04:16 pm
What more can we do?

Err not a lot as far as I can see.  The lack of an available powered chassis, reply 331 in this thread, puts a severe dent in the ability to finish the kit.

I appreciate that it could be completely unpowered but that would defeat the object of developing the kit in the first place.  Well you're not alone as Modern Image Models have the same problem (was thinking about their Harsco Rail Grinder but that's also on hold).

Is there a more readily available chassis, same bogie length but possibly longer in overall length, that could be altered to fit?

Nigel
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 01, 2014, 12:17:10 pm
DCC Supplies seems to have them... 

http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=7606 (http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=7606)

You are quite right though, it seems quite hard to source the motors now.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on January 01, 2014, 12:18:32 pm
It's a superb model which goes together well and runs well so it's well worth spending the cash and time to do one.
Really pleased with mine.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Buzzard on January 01, 2014, 12:27:31 pm
DCC Supplies seems to have them... 

[url]http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=7606[/url] ([url]http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=7606[/url])


Ah excellent news, now where's the credit card.

Thanks,
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on January 01, 2014, 12:32:55 pm
I can reassure anybody considering one but unsure, it is an extremely simple model to build and as already mentioned, looks superb and runs really well.

Happy new year guys!!


Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Ben A on January 01, 2014, 01:58:17 pm

Hi Russ,

It's just a suggestion, but in answer to your question about why more people aren't ordering them... what about some good shots of a fully finished, decalled, painted and even weathered model to whet the appetite?  To further drive sales you might want to show some step by step build photos emphasising the ease of construction and showing how relatively foolproof the design is.

I know from my NGS kits/RTR experience that the absolute best marketing aid for a product is for a potential customer to see one and think "me want!"

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 01, 2014, 02:09:55 pm
Thanks Simon and Ben.  You're quite right Ben, we've been really lacking a build thread and photo's of a finished model.  My model that I was building is still to be finished. :(

I'm working on a new thread as we speak with an instruction guide.  Sadly some crucial pictures are missing and my model is at work. :smackedface:  :)  We'll get there. ;)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: StufromEGDL on January 01, 2014, 02:18:42 pm
Hi Gang,

Ben is quite tight about the appeal of a finished model.  As I have a couple here making painfully slow progress, I will try to get some 'as it goes' pics as there are no decals or handrails applied to anything yet.

Hopefully, this will help the sales push.....of course, I will have to knuckle down and do some modeling despite the distractions of the day job....

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Anthony Lloyd on January 01, 2014, 02:21:30 pm
my model is at work. :smackedface:  :)
How nice to have such an understanding employer ;-)

Must agree that an instruction guide and lots of photos would help ...

That said, I can't afford it anyway at the moment anyway, but I'd love one.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Bmthtrains on January 01, 2014, 02:22:03 pm
I'd be after one of these, if I could see the different versions made up to select which I want. I may just not use this forum enough to know my way round it yet, but I can't even seem to access the classified pages to see how much they are.

David
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 01, 2014, 02:35:13 pm
You should be able to see it David, as you have over 10 posts now.  There is a Classifieds button on the main menu at the top.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Bmthtrains on January 01, 2014, 05:11:27 pm
Ah thanks! Good prices actually. I'd like to see the different versions made up, but for that price it's very tempting.

David
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 01, 2014, 07:11:59 pm
Thanks David.


I have finally managed to get some instructions up on the forum.  They still need some work!

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18520.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18520.0)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 01, 2014, 08:21:54 pm
I've not bought one as my TODO pile is already long enough owing to the arrival of a pair of class 92 shells and having in-laws and other folks around for Christmas/New Year so didn't get any modelling of note done.

Alan

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: koyli55002 on January 06, 2014, 05:03:09 pm
A shame that these only seem to be available in the Classified section, to which not all of us have access. Guess I'll have to keep working at it !
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on January 06, 2014, 05:09:54 pm
A shame that these only seem to be available in the Classified section, to which not all of us have access. Guess I'll have to keep working at it !


You will have access after 10 useful posts I believe!
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: koyli55002 on January 06, 2014, 05:14:57 pm
OOps - I thought it was ten - now I'll REALLY have to work at it ! Thanks for the info  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on January 06, 2014, 05:39:44 pm
Its 10 - just one to go....

...enjoy!

Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Caz on January 06, 2014, 06:41:16 pm
One more post and all will be revealed to you.   ;)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 06, 2014, 06:42:56 pm
A shame that these only seem to be available in the Classified section, to which not all of us have access. Guess I'll have to keep working at it !

Yes sorry, it's something that I'm working on changing for the NGS Shop (which is in the Classifieds).  I intend to make the NGS Shop available to all, but keep the rest of the Classifieds at 10 posts.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Smiffy on January 07, 2014, 09:33:56 am
To gain an extra post - think you meant NGF rather than NGS :)

Best regards

Iain
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: pape_timmo on January 07, 2014, 11:38:24 am
I'm really interested in getting one, especially after enjoying my Royal Train build so much. I've just got to build my NMT coaches, and save the money for the MPV, then hopefully I'll be getting one.

Cheers Timmo.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 07, 2014, 12:41:43 pm
To gain an extra post - think you meant NGF rather than NGS :)

Best regards

Iain

Whoops!  Thank you. ;D
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Smiffy on January 07, 2014, 08:36:29 pm

And an appeal to you all out there following this topic - there's a new MPV unit that's been ordered from Windhoff called the high output plant system (HOPS) or factory train for the GWML electrification - 23 cars! If anyone out there has any info/drawings/photos etc there is a possibility of making the modules to go the mpv chassis. No guarantee but a possibility.

Regards
Russ

Hi Russ,

There are some good images of the first 5 vehicles on XL Rail Express Modeller December 2013, but only one side.
For the other side of some vehicles and some more of the others that have arrived Tom Merrill on Flickr has a set of 14 under "Network Rail HOPS".
Looks like quite a few etches will be required to create the protective sides as well as window grilles And hand rails.

This would hurt the wallet, but what a great train to have :0)

Best regards
Iain

Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on January 08, 2014, 08:29:39 am
Thanks Iain

Very good spot and much appreciated - Thats added to the to do pile....(crane first)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on January 29, 2014, 07:44:19 pm
Hi Guys

Out of interest, is anyone waiting to purchase but hasn't as they cant find a suitable chassis?

Reply to the thread or PM me if you like.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on February 24, 2014, 03:18:33 pm
Please remember, Russ has some motorised chassis that he can sell with the kits, as we know that some of you were finding them hard to source.

Here is a photo showing the FUD and SLS chassis.  Russ will need to let you know the price difference.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on February 25, 2014, 12:15:24 am
Hi Guys,

Price wise its approx £25 of the list price to use the SLS instead of FUD.

Such a close call on which is best. (either option still uses the FUD detailed buffer beams etc)
FUD - lots of fine smooth details but brittle and seldom supplied straight.
SLS - Straight and strong but slightly rough and cheaper.

Possible plan to offer a black undercoated chassis, fitted with motor & bogies, wired and tested.
Anyone interested in this?

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: TheStig on February 26, 2014, 07:31:39 pm


Possible plan to offer a black undercoated chassis, fitted with motor & bogies, wired and tested.
Anyone interested in this?

Regards
Russ

Hi Russ, id certainly be interested, even more so if it was 6 pin DCC ready?? also, do you think there would be enough room to possibly convert it to have sound?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on February 26, 2014, 08:30:25 pm
Hard wiring a decoder to the MApV is very easy. I used a Digitrax DZ125 which fits within the chassis aswell as the motor etc.

Ian

PS. what snow plough is the best fit?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on February 26, 2014, 08:45:07 pm
Hi Ian
Correct profile plough is built in as far as I know.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/RussellH_/Dir_3/medium_10552.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=10552)

Hi Stig
DCC - dead easy as there are only two wires from the pickups to the motor terminals. The unpowered car still has a full set of pickups so could easily house a sound decoder if theres not room in the powered car.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on February 26, 2014, 09:55:18 pm
That's strange as mine doesn't have a plough.
Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on February 26, 2014, 10:38:52 pm
Hi Ian

Doesnt have ploughs? eh? Should have ploughs on the outer ends of both units - but none on the inner ends. Parts are all in a fixed set. Can you phot the fronts & inners of your units nice and close?

Regards
Russ



Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on March 02, 2014, 12:04:59 pm
I don't have any buffers on the inner ends. I don't recall having two pairs in the package.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 02, 2014, 12:55:55 pm
Hi Ian,

See if you can find the bits bag for the kit and please double check - might have spare bogie side frames (without step) in the bag as well. All the kits had the correct amount of buffers - some of the earlier ones had spare bogie frames too.

If you really cant find them we'll have to get you some made unless I have spares.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on March 02, 2014, 08:15:41 pm
Russ

I will have a good route around and let you know.

regard's

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on March 29, 2014, 11:20:08 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/thumb_11307.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11307)

Here you go guys hope you approve of it.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on March 29, 2014, 07:18:42 pm
It looks superb.  Very good job, and great to see one (half!) finished.  :)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on March 29, 2014, 08:16:11 pm
Thanks Russell for the replacement ends. All fitted now.
Just need to fit the horns obtained from B & H

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on April 03, 2014, 06:56:25 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Iron_Stone_Lane_N_Gauge_Layout_Modern_Image/Dir_1/medium_11431.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11431)

picture of finished and weathered MPV
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on April 03, 2014, 06:57:44 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Iron_Stone_Lane_N_Gauge_Layout_Modern_Image/Dir_1/medium_11429.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11429)

Top view
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on April 03, 2014, 06:59:29 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Iron_Stone_Lane_N_Gauge_Layout_Modern_Image/Dir_1/medium_11430.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11430)

Front shot
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on April 03, 2014, 07:01:49 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/thumb_11428.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11428)

last one, now what to build next ..... Russ ??????
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on April 03, 2014, 07:20:39 pm

Very nicely finished models

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Newportnobby on April 03, 2014, 08:47:35 pm
Although I'd never purchase one due the era I run, I must congratulate everyone concerned in bringing this smashing model to market - well done, All :claphappy:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on April 03, 2014, 09:16:48 pm
Think Russ and tank need to take the praise they have done a fab job of brining this model out
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on April 08, 2014, 06:25:26 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Iron_Stone_Lane_N_Gauge_Layout_Modern_Image/Dir_1/medium_11539.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11539)

MPV awaiting its next turn of duty on Ironstone Lane,
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: roundhouse on April 08, 2014, 07:20:25 pm
Whole heatedly agree that this is a superb kit.
I still need to add a few final bits of detail but it is still a favourite on the layout.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Farmer chap on April 13, 2014, 08:31:42 pm
Here's my MPV, running on Lullingstone.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Album_1/Dir_1/medium_11665.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11665) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Album_1/Dir_1/medium_11666.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11666) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Album_1/Dir_1/medium_11667.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11667) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Album_1/Dir_1/medium_11668.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=11668)

This is an excellent kit which with a little time and effort produces good results.  I have added a few extra details on the cab ends, hand rails, vacuum pipes, air horns, steps.

Ian
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on April 13, 2014, 08:48:35 pm
wow looks fantastic, nice build
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on April 13, 2014, 09:59:06 pm
Outstanding!  Very impressed with that, and the extra details.  :)

Edit:-  Have you got any pictures of your layout? 
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: 60006 on April 22, 2014, 04:25:04 pm
Have we any news on a different compatible chassis?
There seem to be some new TM-?? chassis' on some sites that I haven't noticed before but are they of any use to us?

Thanks.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on April 22, 2014, 05:23:05 pm
I believe Russ still has some if you get in touch with him.  I'll find out about the new TMXX chassis.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on April 22, 2014, 05:34:35 pm
Hi 60006,

I can supply you suitable tomix chassis components ready to fit at cost (+£20) shipped with the complete MPV kit.

Based on the TM-03 going out of stock faster than free £5 notes I think its fairly safe to assume the same will happen if I mention what & where these are sourced from and I'd rather not put a redesign of the chassis at risk by doing so. Suffice to say - its tomix and runs really nice - Richboo's chassis has these parts and a chassis has gone out to the stig today so they might comment on running qualities if asked.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on April 22, 2014, 05:58:59 pm
Nothing but praise for the chassis and the motor, you do have to add weight (and there isn't much room to add it). I used lead weights which looks a bit like vermicelli cake topping secured with superglue, plus I also added some weight into a couple of the modules to give a bit extra to the chassis. One tip as well I used a copydex pen to secure the modules to the chassis - this means that they are secure and wont fall off but are easily removed to get access to the motor and wires if needed.

The motor runs smoothly and quietly at slow speeds and goes like a bat out of hell at top speed :-)

I have no issues with chassis at all :-)

Hope this helps
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Railwaygun on May 03, 2014, 11:07:22 am
More TM-03 chassis

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10049207 (http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10049207)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on May 15, 2014, 08:11:25 pm
Hi Guys

Quick shot of the S&C MPV thats been done for David.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on May 16, 2014, 08:30:28 am
The S&C Unit is superb.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on May 16, 2014, 02:15:28 pm
It looks really good.  Nice layout as well.  :)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 16, 2014, 03:08:58 pm
Photographed on 'Bridgebury Gate' at a shiw in taunton tomorrow. St Peters church. Will post more details when i get home cis i am on my phone now
simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: StufromEGDL on May 16, 2014, 03:13:52 pm
Hi Guys,

Looks good, now the chassis has been added....

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 16, 2014, 03:17:41 pm
Ok, 'Bridgebury Gate' complete with MPVs will be at the St Peters Show In Taunton tomorrow -

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=21146.msg216424#msg216424 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=21146.msg216424#msg216424)

for more details

Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on May 18, 2014, 09:50:35 pm
Pics from the taunton show...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/RussellH_/Dir_4/medium_12511.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=12511)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/RussellH_/Dir_4/medium_12512.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=12512)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 18, 2014, 09:54:09 pm
Successful other than my MPV running in the opposite direction to the other one - D'oh!! That is now top of the list with adding the bogie side frames, bufferbeam detailing and then some weathering to finish.

 :greatpicturessign: Russel

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: NTrain on May 18, 2014, 10:30:51 pm
Just spotted the log version in you picyures from the show. Looks good to me.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 19, 2014, 07:22:17 am
Thanks, log version well on the way with a batch of OTA wagons to run with it also under consyruction.
an awesome kit, very recommended guys!!!

Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: TheStig on January 11, 2015, 10:57:58 pm
Hi guys, not sure if its been done yet but thanks to Douglas at wickness models we have an N gauge MPV with sound!! Soon to be painted and weathered by myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INYMDcTpm1o&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INYMDcTpm1o&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on January 11, 2015, 11:04:30 pm
Sound file needs some work but full marks for fitting sound chip!!  Whats the sound file from? A 67? ;)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 12, 2015, 08:05:54 am
That's fantastic to see/hear!  :)  Well done for taking the MPV to the next level. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on January 12, 2015, 11:21:27 am
Hi guys, not sure if its been done yet but thanks to Douglas at wickness models we have an N gauge MPV with sound!! Soon to be painted and weathered by myself.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INYMDcTpm1o&feature=youtu.be[/url] ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INYMDcTpm1o&feature=youtu.be[/url])


Exceptional work! well done and a big thanks for sharing!

couple of pointers......inner module on l/h unit needs tiurning round, tank and blank will then move up and leave room for the cab as per...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/57/thumb_5550.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5550)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/57/thumb_5551.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=5551)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: TheStig on January 12, 2015, 10:27:29 pm
Thanks Russ, Its back with me now so will make sure it all goes together properly, just started the cleaning and getting her primed, will try and post some progress pics.

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/trig10uk/2015-01/AD2004F2-CD1F-41A5-8930-0EA5CDAEF11D.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/trig10uk/media/2015-01/AD2004F2-CD1F-41A5-8930-0EA5CDAEF11D.jpg.html)

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/trig10uk/2015-01/AFBAEFC8-D000-4A94-A56E-DB8FF9619092.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/trig10uk/media/2015-01/AFBAEFC8-D000-4A94-A56E-DB8FF9619092.jpg.html)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on January 31, 2015, 08:18:55 pm
Spotted a suitable chassis for sale in N'porium...

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=classifieds;sa=view;id=2147 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=classifieds;sa=view;id=2147)

Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on February 16, 2015, 09:50:18 am
Quick update...

Order placed for a couple of kits only for the order to be cancelled mid process with some strange remarks in paypal....

ďThe seller cancelled this payment, and the money has been returned to your account.Ē

Another order raised and this time all the models being turned on their sides!

What the heck is going on with shapeways?

Any serious alternatives to shapeways out there that work in a FUD equivalent and that anyone is prepared to recommend?

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on February 16, 2015, 11:28:34 am
Cannot answer about Shapeways but thrre is a good piece in new Rail Express about yge timber windhoff trial including excellent piccies!!
Best wishes
simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 06, 2015, 08:31:28 am
Question....

Are any of our EXISTING MPV customers still without the necessary motorising bits?

PM me if you are ASAP please.

Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on April 03, 2015, 08:43:34 pm
Hi Guys

Heres something a bit novel from shapeway - not seen this posted elsewhere as yet.

http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=113309#msg_113309 (http://www.shapeways.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=113309#msg_113309)

On April 15th we (shapeways) are:
- Introducing Frosted Extreme Detail (FXD), with a higher resolution than Frosted Ultra Detail (FUD)
- Retiring Frosted Detail (FD); FUD will remain unchanged
- Renaming the Detail Plastics materials Acrylic Plastics

Frosted Extreme Detail has a higher resolution than Frosted Ultra Detail, decreasing the layer height from 29 to 16 microns (the shorter the layer, the higher the resolution). While more expensive to produce (really??), thinner layers means unprecedented detail and surface finish, sharper edges, less stepping, and stronger models. It's perfect for the most demanding miniatures, figurines, and molds and masters for casting.

Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Newportnobby on April 03, 2015, 09:35:55 pm
Is the bit about thinner layers creating stronger models true or will they just use more layers? :dunce:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on April 03, 2015, 10:40:04 pm
More thinner layers gives the same finished size as less thicker layers. As they can do thinner layers they should get even better detail. We used 16 micron for the class 92 master and that still had layering lines so hopefully in the time since then layering lines have become even less prominent.

Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Arrachogaidh on April 04, 2015, 12:07:02 am
Some of my parts for the MPV kit, not yet built seem to be disintegrating. Is this general with 3d printed stuff?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on June 01, 2015, 09:50:56 am
All now available direct from shapeways...

S&C...
http://www.shapeways.com/product/DTHPB2CQ9/mpv-s-c-video-unit-single-bundle-set-for-n-gauge (http://www.shapeways.com/product/DTHPB2CQ9/mpv-s-c-video-unit-single-bundle-set-for-n-gauge)

Log...
http://www.shapeways.com/product/TH5349G8Z/timber-mpv-bundle-for-n-gauge (http://www.shapeways.com/product/TH5349G8Z/timber-mpv-bundle-for-n-gauge)

Weed...
http://www.shapeways.com/product/MNJKFYT9S/weedkilling-mpv-bundle-for-n-gauge (http://www.shapeways.com/product/MNJKFYT9S/weedkilling-mpv-bundle-for-n-gauge)

Sandite...
http://www.shapeways.com/product/BDF7HKTZC/sandite-mpv-bundle-for-n-gauge (http://www.shapeways.com/product/BDF7HKTZC/sandite-mpv-bundle-for-n-gauge)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on November 04, 2015, 09:08:15 am
Question....

Are any of our EXISTING MPV customers still without the necessary motorising bits?

PM me if you are ASAP please.

Russ

Hi Guys,

Is there's anyone that needs or wants motorising parts for any of the windhoff MPV kits? If so please PM me within the next few days as Im planning an order. All the necessary motorising parts (complete bogie towers, inner bogies and motor) will be supplied at cost (its ~£25 for the 2 car version depending on how many of you join in  bulk order etc).

This is only for the windhoff series of kits which are now available direct from shapeways

Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on January 09, 2016, 10:41:16 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/9/thumb_34021.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=34021)

g] It's been over a year since my last build. Heavily work stained after a few weeks weedkilling.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on January 09, 2016, 10:46:58 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/9/thumb_34020.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=34020)

Over head view
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 10, 2016, 12:01:21 pm
Stunning model!  You've done a great job there. :greatpicturessign:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Malc on January 10, 2016, 01:24:31 pm
Image says I am not allowed to view the file. Make sure you are connected to the server.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MalcolmInN on January 10, 2016, 01:36:32 pm
Image says I am not allowed to view the file. Make sure you are connected to the server.
Ok here Malc. That is very strange, try again with a flushed cache ?
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Ditape on January 10, 2016, 01:43:23 pm
Image says I am not allowed to view the file. Make sure you are connected to the server.
I am getting the same. :(
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Malc on January 10, 2016, 02:08:40 pm
Flushed the cache, I can now see the images.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: pape_timmo on January 10, 2016, 06:04:16 pm
Stunning work there, well done.

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Only Me on January 10, 2016, 06:54:17 pm
I get exactly the same.  Usually happens when an album is set to view only by creator.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Farmer chap on January 10, 2016, 07:12:29 pm
I'm sure the MPV looks great , however I can't view It either.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: ricboo on January 10, 2016, 07:20:35 pm
I've just unticked a box on the album settings that possibly that may help
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: MalcolmInN on January 10, 2016, 07:34:35 pm
Very strange that some of us ( Tank, pape, me etc ) could see them, yet not other people !
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 11, 2016, 06:53:00 am
Should be fixed now folks.  I think the whole album was restricted.

Just had a nosey at your photo's Richard, and your layout is stunning. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: pape_timmo on January 12, 2016, 03:04:33 pm
Very strange that some of us ( Tank, pape, me etc ) could see them, yet not other people !

I had to wipe the history on my iPhone then I could see them.

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: cazadoom on January 19, 2016, 10:26:40 pm
The Forums MPV's and RHTT .. built by Ricboo


(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

See the in the flesh at the BRM sow in Doncaster in Feb

Cheers
Callum
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: bridgiesimon on January 19, 2016, 10:29:55 pm
They look REALLY good!!!

Best wishes
Simon
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: collierylad on January 20, 2016, 10:52:26 am
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Well I've started, and I've set myself a goal of Bristol exhibition, may Bank holiday.
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Tank on January 20, 2016, 02:21:51 pm
They look great Callum.

Good start CollieryLad.  :)
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 05, 2016, 05:23:11 pm
Hi Guys,

Heard that rumours are spreading you cant get chassis for this kit and we ought to do a new chassis - old news - the TMO3 and TM04 haven't surfaced for quite some time BUT if you need a chassis for any of the MPV kits we designed just contact me via pm - I usually have stocks of the required parts to motorise the kit. Dont worry - its all supplied at cost BUT only to match a shapeways order for an MPV.

This offer is and will remain valid while this message is displayed.

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on June 07, 2016, 11:01:17 pm
Hi Guys

Guess whats finally back on sale?

TM03
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomytec-TM-03-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-12-meter-A-N-scale-/351754121180?hash=item51e62defdc (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomytec-TM-03-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-12-meter-A-N-scale-/351754121180?hash=item51e62defdc)

12 in stock 12/6/16

AND!

TM04
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomytec-TM-04-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-15-meter-A-N-scale-/351748340253?hash=item51e5d5ba1d (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tomytec-TM-04-Powered-Motorized-Chassis-15-meter-A-N-scale-/351748340253?hash=item51e5d5ba1d)
6 left as at 12/6/2016

Remember to get the unpowered bogies for the twin chassis MPV's
Kato 11-030
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kato-11-030-Truck-Set-TR201-Long-Coupler-N-scale-/201564597156?hash=item2eee2faba4 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kato-11-030-Truck-Set-TR201-Long-Coupler-N-scale-/201564597156?hash=item2eee2faba4)

Regards
Russ
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: Mark171 on March 05, 2017, 12:23:29 am
Hello guys/gals,

This looks like it will make a great model (however I can't see a lot of the images on this forum) and I joined this forum after seeing the MPV on Shapeways. However as the thread is old I wanted to ask is it still available?
I can obtain the chassis from eBay and as I said the model is there on Shapeways but I was wondering about the etched parts, are they still available?

This is my first post so thanks for reading and a bigger thank-you if you answer  ;)

Regards,
Mark
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: mickd247 on March 05, 2017, 01:12:57 am
Hi Mark171

When you purchase the MPV from Shapeways you contact @RussellH (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1002) on this forum (see the post before yours) who is part of 3DR with the order number and he will provide the relevant etches.
HTH

 :beers:

Mick
Title: Re: NGF Exclusive! Windhoff MPV Prototype!
Post by: RussellH on March 05, 2017, 08:51:35 am
Hello guys/gals,

(however I can't see a lot of the images on this forum)
Yes, its a bit dissapointing considerig the number of kits that thave been sold. One more you can have a look at here...
[url]http://www.bridgeburygate.co.uk/content/GeneralGallery03/general_Gallery03.html[/url] ([url]http://www.bridgeburygate.co.uk/content/GeneralGallery03/general_Gallery03.html[/url])

is it still available?
very much so!

I was wondering about the etched parts, are they still available? -
Yes! - Iv got etches in and if we run out I'll order up more

This is my first post so thanks for reading and a bigger thank-you if you answer  ;)

Regards,
Mark



Welcome! Thanks for joining the forum

Replies in line above.

Regards

Russ