N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: Dorsetmike on January 11, 2018, 10:11:05 am

Title: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Dorsetmike on January 11, 2018, 10:11:05 am
Just a thought, has any N gauge manufacturer brought out a loco which did not make it into BR livery? Having that one less livery option seems to kill any chance.

From reading this and other railway forums it would seem that the vast majority of layouts and posts in general feature BR period and later and steam is becoming a minority.

Looking at the Farish 2018 list tends to reinforce this view. I know the NGS ask for members modelling info, has this ever been published as percentages?

Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: njee20 on January 11, 2018, 10:18:09 am
I think it's natural that the 'average' period of a model will gradually become more recent as people will model what they remember. Fewer and fewer people will have been around in the days of the big-4 etc, so it's natural that the popularity of that as an era wanes over time.

It's all way before my time, so no idea about what did/didn't make it to BR period. I'd be astounded if there's literally been nothing produced that didn't make it to BR, but I'd argue that's not because of the limitations in livery, and more because the practical reality is that most locos did make it to BR period.

Not sure what info you mean by percentages, do you mean the percentage of models released that operated in a given era? I'd argue that with the generally accepted classifications they're pretty meaningless, although I commend Hattons (among others I'm sure) on doing an 11-era scale.
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Bob G on January 11, 2018, 10:50:33 am
Union Mills was the first chap producing models that commonly only made it to BR early crest - and doesn't he have a policy of only producing models with early crests?

But if you want a serious answer, the Germans have produced early models, e.g. Der Adler which didn't make it into DB livery :)

Bob
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: emjaybee on January 11, 2018, 10:53:04 am
Having been born in 1968, (yeah, I'm a youngster  :P) I have no living memory of working steam. I grew up 100yds from the west coast mainline at Bletchley, with AM10/AM12 stock and 86's & 87's.

I model steam.

I also have noticed the prevalence of new models being diesel/electric multiple units and traction in BR blue and privatised liveries. On a weekly basis I scour FleaBay and the online shops for reduced price current tooling steam locos, as I can see that in 10yrs time there's unlikely to be many, if any, new steam locos being produced. Those that are seem to be always late BR steam. My plan is to build up stocks of locos that I want so that I can have them repainted in liveries that I want (all hail @Ozymandias (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3534)  :admiration:) so that should the time come when they stop producing new steam models I'll have what I need already.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be thrilled if they produce more Jubilee's but in lined LMS black, but just in case I have seven so far, some repainted, some yet to be.

Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Bob G on January 11, 2018, 10:56:15 am
I have stocks of Bullied front bogies ready to be fitted to WCs, BBs and BB/WC/MN rebuilds (yes you can have one size fits all sir) :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: PostModN66 on January 11, 2018, 11:31:54 am
Having been born in 1968, (yeah, I'm a youngster  :P) I have no living memory of working steam. I grew up 100yds from the west coast mainline at Bletchley, with AM10/AM12 stock and 86's & 87's..........I also have noticed the prevalence of new models being diesel/electric multiple units and traction in BR blue and privatised liveries.......

If only there were more EMUs being introduced!   Even the RevolutioN 321 is looking doubtful.   An AM10.....now that really would be something  8)

Cheers Jon  :)
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: emjaybee on January 11, 2018, 11:54:22 am
 :sick:

 :D
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: njee20 on January 11, 2018, 11:59:46 am
I dont remember blue and grey, let alone steam!
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: The Q on January 11, 2018, 12:08:41 pm
When I started in N just less than a year ago I must admit I was surprised at what little range of steam locos there were available. luckily I had decided to model Tiree in 1963, so what little there is, does fit.

When I lived a hundred yards or so from the WCML, in Bletchley Park (1975), the WCML had just been electrified, But I have no interest in Blue Boxes Electric or Diesel.

Even though my Layout of a Lifetime is in EM gauge, I can see with the number of rugrats :D on this forum, that at some point in the future 2mm will become more popular than the 4mm scales.

Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Newportnobby on January 11, 2018, 01:02:12 pm
I model transition era as that's what I remember and know about. Anything after that is just multi coloured worms to me. My loco fleet numbers around the 100 mark and is roughly 50/50 steam or diesel. Personally I don't notice a lack of steam options as (a) the vast majority is late crest and (b) I can run early crest as some survived into late crest era. However..........

I've already said if someone were to release RTR EM1/EM2 electrics in my lifetime I'd be building a layout just for them, and I guess the same might happen for AL electrics and AM10 units as I grew up with them and travelled extensively on/behind them.


When I lived a hundred yards or so from the WCML, in Bletchley Park (1975), the WCML had just been electrified, But I have no interest in Blue Boxes Electric or Diesel.


The WCML had long been electrified by 1975 (I lived in Wolverton and then Northampton for many years).....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line

About 3 or 4 years ago I did conduct a poll asking for people's age and what era they modelled. If I recall most of us fell into the 60s age range and modelled transition era, but that was only from memory and also from the responses to the poll.
Maybe another one would be interesting.
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Chris Morris on January 11, 2018, 01:21:26 pm
To turn the question around, can anyone name a loco that didn't make it to BR times that would be popular across a wide spectrum of modellers? I think all loco classes designed by the big four made it into BR ownership so we are talking locos built by pre-grouping companies. Many of the better pre-grouping classes made it to BR days (just about). I find it hard to think of a loco class with a wide enough appeal to make a return on investment. Maybe a Midland spinner or class 156 2-4-0 with tender drive? Union Mills have already got a suitable tender (I think). Although neither of these made it into BR livery one of each is preserved so perhaps they don't count.
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: The Q on January 11, 2018, 01:50:05 pm


When I lived a hundred yards or so from the WCML, in Bletchley Park (1975), the WCML had just been electrified, But I have no interest in Blue Boxes Electric or Diesel.


The WCML had long been electrified by 1975 (I lived in Wolverton and then Northampton for many years).....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Main_Line


from that page...
. In March 1970 the government approved electrification between Weaver Junction (where the route to Liverpool diverges) and Glasgow, and this was completed on 6 May 1974.[7][19]
About a year isn't a long time in the WCML electrification being completed . I was travelling from Bletchley to Scotland regularly at the time..

The OP was refering to Pre Nationalisation loco's not being made for N gauge, so you (and me) are lucky in that  respect.

My proposed class for one which in Normal Use didn't make it through to BR Days, would be the GWR City Class (withdrawn 1931), as the Preserved City of Truro still makes a showing.
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: njee20 on January 11, 2018, 01:59:23 pm
Well to be fair to Nobby London to Liverpool was electrified by 1966, as you lived at Bletchley his statement is perfectly valid. That's like saying "I live by the ECML at Newark, but it's not electrified yet", meaning the bit to Aberdeen!


To turn the question around, can anyone name a loco that didn't make it to BR times that would be popular across a wide spectrum of modellers? I think all loco classes designed by the big four made it into BR ownership so we are talking locos built by pre-grouping companies. Many of the better pre-grouping classes made it to BR days (just about). I find it hard to think of a loco class with a wide enough appeal to make a return on investment. Maybe a Midland spinner or class 156 2-4-0 with tender drive? Union Mills have already got a suitable tender (I think). Although neither of these made it into BR livery one of each is preserved so perhaps they don't count.

Yes, that was my point - the pool of locos to have been entirely scrapped pre-BR is small. The number that would have significant commercial appeal is even smaller, so I think it's unfair to question whether manufacturers purposely avoid pre-BR models.
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: railsquid on January 11, 2018, 02:10:58 pm
I'm by no means an expert on steam of any kind but one thing that did surprise me when digging through Wikipedia is just how many classes of pre-grouping locomotives, some dating from the (very) late 19th century, made it through to early BR days.

As far as modelling eras go, by the time I popped out TOPS was coming in and all the kettles were in Barry, I was originally intending to stick to BR blue/sectorisation, which I'm familiar with (bit worrying to hear that's no longer "modern era" mind you) but researching my layout location brought up a whole lot of beguiling transition-era colour footage and I keep acquiring steamers.
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: javlinfaw7 on January 11, 2018, 04:28:47 pm
A number of locomotives including a Caledonian single and a Highland Jones goods and a Great North of Scotland Railway F Class were all active in Scotland on rail tours from 1958 to mid sixties , but none of these would have enough support for manufacture
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Yet_Another on January 11, 2018, 06:28:04 pm
A number of locomotives including a Caledonian single and a Highland Jones goods and a Great North of Scotland Railway F Class were all active in Scotland on rail tours from 1958 to mid sixties , but none of these would have enough support for manufacture
Hornby did the Caledonian single, IIRC. So never say never.

But probably say never  ;)
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Mr chapman on January 16, 2018, 07:03:32 pm
Im 32 and model the southern at grouping. Bit of odd one the southern region. Because of the commitment to 3rd rail a lot of the steam locos lasted a lot longer than they otherwise would have on the other regions. So most models would suit the BR period. However I would love to see something like a LSWR A12 produced. I think they were withdrawn as BR came in but wouldn't be surprised if one had BRITISH RAILWAYS applied.
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Dorsetmike on January 17, 2018, 11:10:36 am
Of the Adams A!2s 20 were withdrawn in 1946/7, &  the last 4 were withdrawn in 1948 but never carried BR numbers nor livey  618 Jan '48, 636 Oct '48 and 627 & 629 in Dec 48

For full list of withdrawals see http://www.semgonline.com/steam/a12class_01.html (http://www.semgonline.com/steam/a12class_01.html)

This is my scratch brass built attempt, Union Mills tender drive, loco currently on the bench
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Dorsetmike's_pix/Dir_2/main_6600.jpg)

A scratch brass ex LSWR Drummond K10
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/albums/Dorsetmike's_pix/Dir_2/main_6597.jpg)
Title: Re: Thoughts on eras
Post by: Karhedron on January 18, 2018, 11:02:20 am
I'm by no means an expert on steam of any kind but one thing that did surprise me when digging through Wikipedia is just how many classes of pre-grouping locomotives, some dating from the (very) late 19th century, made it through to early BR days.

The depression of the 1930s followed by WW2 meant that a lot of old locos simply had to be kept going in order to keep services running. With little new money, it was very much as case of "make do and mend". The BR standards generally saw off the last of the pre-grouping locos during the 1950s although some truly vintage locos such as the LBSCR Terriers made it all the way through to 1963 before the final members were withdrawn.