N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: IkBrunel on January 03, 2018, 06:07:53 pm

Title: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: IkBrunel on January 03, 2018, 06:07:53 pm
I want to remove the old the current decals in a bachfarish pannier tank and replace them with BR details. What is the best way to remove the old decals without marking the green coloured body and who makes the best transfers to replace them with? I would prefer some that could withstand a bit of use and are not too delicate.
Many thanks
David.
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: NeMo on January 03, 2018, 06:19:58 pm
Others may have their own methods, but I use a cocktail stick, sometimes dipped in IPA if required, to abrade the old transfers. Then a coat of gloss varnish using an airbrush. This is essential -- transfers just don't look good on matt surfaces because matt surfaces are rough. Gloss fills the gaps. Then the transfer (I like Precision decals, but expressly ask for waterslide, which I find easier to use). Microset is very useful when applying them. Let dry, then satin or matt varnish to restore the same finish as the original loco. Job done.

Or not! Usually takes a couple of tries to get it good enough!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: Les1952 on January 03, 2018, 07:08:14 pm
I generally use a Faber-Castell erasing pencil, rubbed gently in a circular pattern, and with the tip sharpened at frequent intervals.

Almost any method that doesn't leave visible scratches on the surface will wear the top coat of the paint slightly.  However you do need to varnish over the new transfers to keep them from going walkabout as soon as the air gets moist, so that varnish will hide any slightly glossy areas.

Hope this helps.
Les

BTW the pencils are available from any art shop.
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: ten0G on January 04, 2018, 05:02:52 pm
I want to remove the old the current decals in a bachfarish pannier tank and replace them with BR details. What is the best way to remove the old decals without marking the green coloured body and who makes the best transfers to replace them with? I would prefer some that could withstand a bit of use and are not too delicate.
Many thanks
David.

IkB,

A word of warning if I may, are the decals you wish to remove GW or BR ones? 

The difference between GW mid-chrome green and BR Brunswick green is quite apparent on my Dapol 57xx compared with the later Dapol BR loco I have. 

I reconciled the difference by leaving the "BRITISH RAILWAYS" lettering on the pannier tanks as I'm sure not all pre-totem locos were repainted immediately, especially in the remoter part of West Wales. 

I haven't seen a BachFar GW green loco to compare it with their BR green, but if your loco is GW green, you may find your options very limited unless you are prepared to do a repaint. 

HTH, Tennoji.
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: IkBrunel on January 04, 2018, 05:20:40 pm
I want to remove the old the current decals in a bachfarish pannier tank and replace them with BR details. What is the best way to remove the old decals without marking the green coloured body and who makes the best transfers to replace them with? I would prefer some that could withstand a bit of use and are not too delicate.
Many thanks
David.

IkB,

A word of warning if I may, are the decals you wish to remove GW or BR ones? 

The difference between GW mid-chrome green and BR Brunswick green is quite apparent on my Dapol 57xx compared with the later Dapol BR loco I have. 

I reconciled the difference by leaving the "BRITISH RAILWAYS" lettering on the pannier tanks as I'm sure not all pre-totem locos were repainted immediately, especially in the remoter part of West Wales. 

I haven't seen a BachFar GW green loco to compare it with their BR green, but if your loco is GW green, you may find your options very limited unless you are prepared to do a repaint. 

HTH, Tennoji.
I am wanting to remove the GWR decal and replace with Br. Iím not worried about the green but itís just bugging me that everything else I have has BR on and this has GWR. I can just about live with the colour of the lettering is right. Haha.
Are you saying that some pannier tanks may have ran with the old gwr lettering on before being repainted?
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: ten0G on January 04, 2018, 05:47:06 pm
Are you saying that some pannier tanks may have ran with the old gwr lettering on before being repainted?

Some locos had "BRITISH RAILWAYS" on them instead of "GREAT WESTERN," I believe in GW-style lettering, also no smokebox numberplate with the number still shown on the front and rear buffer-beams. 

Regards,

Tennoji. 
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: Shropshire Lad on January 04, 2018, 10:16:22 pm
Slight bit of.thread drift sorry. If you aren't planning to replace the removed decals what would you use to match the area to your models finish? I'm thinking satin varnish but wondered what other people have done.
Cheers Colin
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: geoffc on January 05, 2018, 10:02:31 am
Not all locos were repainted and rebadged immediately on the formation of British Railways. I recall in the early fifties seeing  pannier tanks still lettered G.W.R. Dont forget BR and the country was strapped for cash after WW2 and changing the badging on locos was a low priority, some carried G.W.R untill 1956.  When repainted after nationalisation they would have been black with firstly BRITISH RAILWAYS in several styles then the cycling lion badge. In 1957 plain green was introduced followed by lined green to some locos and the ferret and dartboard badge. A good source of reference is "Collett and Hawksworth Locos" by Brian Haresnape. As always work from a photo of the real thing as your number may not have been a green loco.

Geoff
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: Les1952 on January 05, 2018, 01:27:19 pm
Indeed there were published pics of panniers in the Swindon dump in the early SIXTIES still lettered GWR.  Panniers were well down the pecking order when it came to getting attention, despite the Western Region's desire to build as many new pannier tanks as the could despite not really needing them.

It is sobering to think that at least three 16xx never saw the inside of a works again after building, being scrapped as they became due for their first overhaul.  There must have been some 57xx in the same category and more than a few 94xx, but I have not the works lists for either of these two classes...

Les
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: NeMo on January 05, 2018, 01:36:32 pm
As always work from a photo of the real thing as your number may not have been a green loco.


I don't think this point can be stressed too much. Thank you for making it.

Flip side, there's nothing to stop @IkBrunel (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6482) going completely freelance with his GWR pannier. For example, making it a preserved one. Perhaps even a depot special -- e.g., add some electrification flashes, and it'a BR-owned machine spruced up for a depot open day! Such things were quite common, and to some degree still are, e.g., BR-blue liveried AC electric locos operating on the network, albeit with updated warning symbols, extra lights, radio antennas, and so on.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: ten0G on January 05, 2018, 05:33:44 pm
I hope I've solved my conflict with the Dapol 57xx. 

I recalled reading a letter in a mid or late seventies model magazine (probably Model Railway News), about a B-set rake still in GWR livery in the late fifties in the Honeybourne area. 

I bought a pair of Dapol coaches in the last GWR livery and I think the train makes a fine sight. 

Tennoji.
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: IkBrunel on January 05, 2018, 05:51:24 pm
I hope I've solved my conflict with the Dapol 57xx. 

I recalled reading a letter in a mid or late seventies model magazine (probably Model Railway News), about a B-set rake still in GWR livery in the late fifties in the Honeybourne area. 

I bought a pair of Dapol coaches in the last GWR livery and I think the train makes a fine sight. 

Tennoji.
This make me feel a lot better. If Br still ran them in Gwr livery then I will keep it ass it is and use that as an excuse. Ha ha. I always feel uncomfortable about running  the wrong trains and it takes the fun out of it for me. Silly I know!
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: IkBrunel on January 05, 2018, 06:04:33 pm
I donít suppose anybody has any picture of one pulling br stock in the Br era.
Also which dapol carriages did you buy to go with your dapol 57xx
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: Les1952 on January 05, 2018, 07:04:39 pm
Why not weather it?   Most were filthy even in GWR days.

Stock- a pair of B-set carriages (Dapol) in BR red (not lined maroon if you can get them)- or even three as there were as many "loose" B-set brakes as there were formed into pairs.  There are some lovely pictures of three coach sets (B-set plus matching "loose" brake) on the Looe branch in some of the recent mags.

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: ten0G on January 05, 2018, 08:55:44 pm
Also which dapol carriages did you buy to go with your dapol 57xx

I chose Dapol item 2P-003-000 in chocolate & cream (2-coach pack).  Whether that is correct for the last GWR livery is still a bit uncertain, and whether they would be appropriate for a 64xx I can't say. 

I don't think that Dapol have released B-sets in crimson yet, or unlined maroon. 

HTH, Tennoji.
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: PaulinSouthMidlands on January 09, 2018, 06:04:47 pm
I used cotton buds and nail varnish remover. Found the bachfar numbers much harder to remove than the Dapol. Used bespoke replacement decals from Precision Labels applied direct after removal of the old and varnished with Humbrol matte coat varnish . This is solvent based and is the first varnish I've found that goes on reliably, is actually consistently matt and stays clear. Presumably becauase it is solvent not water based. I put a quick coat over the transfer immediately after application then later a second coat covering the area around the transfer up to eg the first door. You can see the decal backing but you have to look!

I also found that overcoating with Humbrol Matte Coat on a coach varnished years ago with a water based varnish improved it massively./
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: ten0G on January 13, 2018, 03:21:45 pm
I hope I've solved my conflict with the Dapol 57xx. 

I recalled reading a letter in a mid or late seventies model magazine (probably Model Railway News), about a B-set rake still in GWR livery in the late fifties in the Honeybourne area. 

I bought a pair of Dapol coaches in the last GWR livery and I think the train makes a fine sight. 

Tennoji.

If I do find any livery conflicts, then I'll repaint the coaches in crimson and the pannier in black with the unicycling totem.  I may try to keep the brass finish safety valve though under Rule 1 as I don't think black looks as good. 
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: Intercity on January 13, 2018, 04:39:28 pm
Does anyone have photos of the results of these techniques? I search for pics and either get sidetracked or get the upgrade photobucket stuff, just wondering if the renumbers are obvious (colour patches/blotches where varnish has been applied) or if it blends in so you canít tell.
Title: Re: Replacing decals on bachfarish.
Post by: PaulinSouthMidlands on January 15, 2018, 05:49:59 pm
It is difficult to photo in that depending on the angle it will look invisible or ghastly.

I think the most important thing is the varnishing but you will be able to see that it has been modded if you look for it however good you are.

Does anyone have photos of the results of these techniques? I search for pics and either get sidetracked or get the upgrade photobucket stuff, just wondering if the renumbers are obvious (colour patches/blotches where varnish has been applied) or if it blends in so you canít tell.