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Your Layout and Models => On My Workbench => Topic started by: Ricardus Harfelde on January 07, 2016, 10:28:23 pm

Title: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on January 07, 2016, 10:28:23 pm
I've started a project to modify a Union Mills LSWR Adams 395 locomotive. The aim is to reduce the overall width & height and to reduce the thickness of any visible plate edges. I make the UM model around 1.5mm too high (using the rail top – boiler top distance) and around 1.3mm (footplate width) too wide when compared with the dimensions implied by the drawing in LSWR Locomotives by Bradley. The differences seem to be caused by over thick footplates and cab/splasher sides respectively. The plan is to replace the footplate, cab sides & roof, and splasher sides with thinner nickel silver or brass sheet versions

Photos of the unmodified UM model can be seen here:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12749.msg133288#msg133288]
[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=12749.msg133288#msg133288 (http://[url)
 [/url]

First step was to remove the existing footplate by sawing and scraping, and then sanding the bottom of the body flat by rubbing on a sheet of wet and dry paper

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/9/thumb_33917.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=33917)

I then modified the chassis as shown. I used a strip of ¼” wide brass which was the ideal size to seal the chassis top and provides a good bearing surface. A pair of screws go into the 2 large holes in the strip, pass up through some spacers and the new footplate, and screw into the white metal of the body.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/9/thumb_33920.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=33920)

I then set about gouging out the splashers to allow the wheels to ride higher in them, I just kept going until holes started to appear in the splasher tops. I then made the footplate, using a length of 0.5 x 0.5mm L section for the valences. The result can be seen below, with the rear loco being the UM Drummond 700 which has the same size wheels and I'm assuming the same top of footplate height as the unmodified 395. I seem to have managed a height reduction of about 0.8mm. There may be scope for further increasing this as this still some spare room in the splashers, however the pinch point is where the coupling rods foul the footplate underside, the rods seem to be both over thick and also further from the wheel centre than on the prototype, I've filed off the oil boxes to alleviate this. Will see if a bit of filing here & there will do the trick.

I've also taken the chance to convert the model to represent a longer framed 1885-6 series loco

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/9/thumb_33921.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=33921)

The following photo shows the effect of narrowing the footplate, the Drummond 700 being the same width as the unmodified UM Adams 395. Next step is to produce a new set of cab & splasher sides to narrow the body down

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/9/thumb_33922.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=33922)

Richard





Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: newportnobby on January 08, 2016, 10:38:37 am
Not for the faint-hearted, Richard, but an excellent conversion. I look forward to seeing more as the 395 progresses.
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on January 08, 2016, 08:26:09 pm
Thanks. It's not quite so daunting now I've done the chassis & footplate. Having said that I've noticed from the photo that the rear of the valence is not seated properly, so will have to spot of scraping & re-soldering there. It's taken me a lot longer than I thought as ever
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on January 28, 2016, 11:14:25 pm
Have made some further progress on the above. I made new cab & splasher sides plus found that the curved tops of the centre & front splashers disintegrated when I tried to reduce the width of them so made new versions of these as well

The following photo gives an idea of the height reduction achieved as I assume that the loco footplate was originally the same height as the  tender "footplate". I make the reduction achieved about 1.1mm, with the top of the boiler currently still being about 0.9mm too high wrt the top of the rail. The main pinch point is the vertical clearance for the wheel flange in the front splashers, plus the coupling rods are nearly touching the underside of the running plate. I think replacing the splasher tops with thinner brass ones has helped, I also filed down the front wheel flanges to reduce them from 0.7 to 0.5mm without any apparent harm being done

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_34879.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=34879)

The second photo shows the width reduction in which I have been able to reduce the running plate width, cab width
and distance between the splasher sides to correct values. The cab sides have been glued on as a temporary measure and haven't been correctly aligned yet.



(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_34880.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=34880)



Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Dorsetmike on January 29, 2016, 10:20:07 am
Having just sawn a UM tender body in half to fit over a German tender drive (I'll fill the gap with lo melt solder) I was surprised at how thick the top is, even after gouging out a fair bit there is still about 4mm of "coal"  and about 3mm of the rear flat section with the filler cap.

When you attack the tender the most obvious error on the UM one is the lack of the large tool box, or whatever it was, at the back with the sloping top (image linked from Google)

(http://www.vectis.co.uk/AuctionImages/32/2428_l.jpg)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Bealman on January 29, 2016, 11:04:44 am
I am constantly astounded by the way forum members improve on Union Mills models.

A credit to you all!  :thumbsup: :beers:

George
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on January 29, 2016, 02:33:18 pm
 :o

I have been trying to decide on which UM model to get first and am tempted by the Adams 0395, but don't have the stomach for quite this drastic of a conversion! Good work!  :greatpicturessign:
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Dorsetmike on January 29, 2016, 02:58:37 pm
If you are modelling Southern, then the best bet from UM is the class 700 0-6-0, only a few minor fettlings needed, the coupling rods are a bit thick, they can be filed down, fit vacuum pipes front and rear, to be a bit fussier then lamp brackets, 3 above buffer beam, one either side of smokebox and one at top of smoke box, some people like to fit wire handrails, I usually carefully scrape the paint off, I could go a bit further and paint the scraped  "handrail" with something like "oily steel, needs a steady hand, dunno where mine has gone!

The T9 is OK if you are modelling the eastern or central sections in the 1930s and a few into BR, they were the only ones normally fitted with the 6 wheel tender, the majority of the rest of the class had the 8 wheel Drummond "watercart" (as in my sig below) they also had a narrower cab and small splashers to clear the coupling rods. 2 of the "wide cab" ones 337 and 338 retained their 8 wheel tenders. As I doubt there are any SR rivet counters on your side of the pond you could probably get away with a 6 wheel tender ::) :whistle:

The 0395 was getting a bit long in the tooth and was usually relegated to secondary duties, local goods, shunting, station or shed pilot, the 700 still saw plenty of use into BR days.
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on January 29, 2016, 03:58:22 pm
If you are modelling Southern, then the best bet from UM is the class 700 0-6-0, only a few minor fettlings needed, the coupling rods are a bit thick, they can be filed down, fit vacuum pipes front and rear, to be a bit fussier then lamp brackets, 3 above buffer beam, one either side of smokebox and one at top of smoke box, some people like to fit wire handrails, I usually carefully scrape the paint off, I could go a bit further and paint the scraped  "handrail" with something like "oily steel, needs a steady hand, dunno where mine has gone!

The T9 is OK if you are modelling the eastern or central sections in the 1930s and a few into BR, they were the only ones normally fitted with the 6 wheel tender, the majority of the rest of the class had the 8 wheel Drummond "watercart" (as in my sig below) they also had a narrower cab and small splashers to clear the coupling rods. 2 of the "wide cab" ones 337 and 338 retained their 8 wheel tenders. As I doubt there are any SR rivet counters on your side of the pond you could probably get away with a 6 wheel tender ::) :whistle:

The 0395 was getting a bit long in the tooth and was usually relegated to secondary duties, local goods, shunting, station or shed pilot, the 700 still saw plenty of use into BR days.

I find myself once again in your debt, Mike! Excellent advice as usual :) I model whatever is steam, with a preference for pre-grouping and grouping locos. Pre-grouping really gets me going, but the offerings rtr are sparse (part of my drive to kit and scratch build!). I also tend to like GWR locomotives (especially the post-broad gauge, pre-grouping GWR locos).

 I have told myself I'm going to wait and see what the new liveries are for the Dean Goods (3 GWR and a BR) before I make my decision, which almost certainly means I'll end up getting a Dean Goods AND something else! Lol

I am very tempted by the Prince of Wales (Mark Twain in LNWR black) and by the Adams, but feel the Adams tender is simply too high. I like the T9 as well and the 2P in SDJR or LMS livery. The 700 is only presently available in BR black which I can't contionably buy when other liveries are available  (Sorry BR fans!)

Sadly I could do with a few more rivet counters in my life here, as I can never seem to interest American modelers in UK stock (I tell them I model British n gauge and they shut down and I show them pictures of the most stunning locos and get blank looks). I don't know what I'd do without the detail oriented and helpful modelers like you on here!
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Dorsetmike on January 29, 2016, 04:46:34 pm
700s were black in SR days as well, the crew's nickname for them was "Black Motors" so you only need to remove the BR logo and number and get Fox transfer (decal) sheet FRH2400, which just has SOUTHERN and loco numbers for tender and front buffer beam; whilst ordering from Fox, FRH2405 is for coach text and numbers.

When you get round to the dark olive green livery 1923-about 38  lining is not produced specifically for SR which is a black border with a thin white line inside it, nearest I've found is  LNER white/black/white I apply that and ink or paint over the outer white, or use as is for boiler bands; again Fox, and FRH2350 for straight lines and some curves, 2350/2 for straight lines only and 2350/4 for corners.

OOPS, just realised we're hijacking the 0395 thread, apologies Ricardus.
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on January 29, 2016, 11:02:30 pm
Thanks for all your comments

No need to apologise Mike, I've got the T9 and 700 to detail as well so am glad to have stimulated a bit of discussion.

I certainly wouldn't recommend my above work on the 395 as a quick & easy exercise, it has taken me a lot of time, but I'm looking to do some scratch building in the future and thought it would be a good introduction to some of the issues involved

Not sure if it was a one off, but the coupling rods for my 395 are fluted on one side of the rod and plain on the other side of the rod, which makes thinning down difficult as you are losing a lot of stiffness when you file them down (My 700 has a plain rod which doesn't have this problem).

For the tender (when I get round to it) I'm tempted to just use the UM drive and build the body et al from scratch as I'm a bit fed up with forever gouging away at white metal. I'm hoping that the weight of the drive + any extra lead that I can fit in will still give me a reasonable amount of traction & wheel/track contact. I'm planning to adopt Mr TheBrighton's technique of replacing the 6mm UM wheels with 8mm Farish tender ones. If I do this I reckon the top of the motor will be 18.2mm above the top of the rail, whereas the top of the coal rails on the 395 tender should be 18.5mm above the rail top so I should be able to do it if I pile up the coal a bit.
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Dorsetmike on January 29, 2016, 11:17:37 pm
See my sig below for the T9, Langley S15 tender body, Fleischmann 716x tender drive. I also milled a few thou off the cab sides and splashers and added coupling rod splashers as nearly all the wide cab ones were not on the Western section in the 1930s. I think it would be a right PITA to narrow the cab using only a file or minidrill and burrs.

If you go to the lengths of buying an S15 kit for the tender, the loco is not wasted, get a BHE N15 tender body and use that with the UM drive from the T9 and add a pair of wheels, cut some bogie side frames and add some springs and axle boxes. I managed to get hold of some etched Urie tender bogie sides many years ago, I think it was Worsley Works did them for me, had to add the axle boxes and springs though.
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on February 21, 2016, 04:23:57 pm
I have added a new cab front & smokebox front to the above. To my mind two of the main features of the prototype are the sloping smokebox front & the large cab windows and I felt I could emphasise these by replacing the original castings with sheet metal replacements.

I made the cab window spectacles from 0.4mm diameter brass rod, cut over length, soldered on, trimmed and then filed flat. I used a modified NBrass smoke box door (I think it was the one for the SECR C class) by reducing the length of the hinge brackets, the hinge spacings are incorrect though. The boiler & cab are only temporarily fixed on & I will fill all the gaps when they are permanently in place

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_35684.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=35684)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_35683.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=35683)

Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: PGN on February 21, 2016, 04:58:02 pm
That's looking really good
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: austinbob on February 21, 2016, 05:10:41 pm
That's looking really good
Certainly is. What is most impressive is that the photos are much larger than life and in reality that is such a small loco in N gauge and I imagine you need good eyes and a steady hand to get to that standard, Very impressive work.
 :beers:
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Southernboy on February 21, 2016, 05:27:32 pm
Just caught up with this thread - most impressive (and much of it beyond me!)

But out of interest, if I were to dip my toe-in-the-water: How do you go about gouging out splashers? Is there a particular tool to use for eg?

You also mention "...replacing the original castings with sheet metal replacements." For the uninitiated like me: How do you do that sort of thing / what tools are required?

Thanks,

Mark



Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 21, 2016, 05:43:54 pm
Wow! Looks amazing! It's really coming out nicely :) I can't wait to see what you do about the tender, as that is my biggest hang up with this model.  :greatpicturessign: :thankyousign:
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on February 22, 2016, 12:10:05 pm
I imagine you need good eyes and a steady hand to get to that standard

I make a lot of use of a daylight table lamp with a big 5in magnifying glass attached to it via a flexible stem. I find things awkward when I can't use this despite my use of a magnifying visor. Plus I try to do the fiddly bits with everything laid flat and held in place with masking tape



But out of interest, if I were to dip my toe-in-the-water: How do you go about gouging out splashers? Is there a particular tool to use for eg?

You also mention "...replacing the original castings with sheet metal replacements." For the uninitiated like me: How do you do that sort of thing / what tools are required?


I used a HSS  triangular scraper for gouging out the white metal from the splashers, I also made use of a Swiss Istor sharpener that I had for my gardening tools as it was roughly 2mm wide with cutting edges on either side so was just the right size for the job. I imagine an HSS graver would suit as well.

For construction I've been using the book “Scratch Building Model Railway Locomotives” by Simon Bolton (who wrote the Tilbury Tanks topic on this forum) as a guide. I've used 10thou nickel silver sheet, to cut this I use bending bars for the straight external edges & a piercing saw for curved & internal edges, which are then filed down. The soldering is done with an Antex 25W using Carrs 188 Sheet Metal solder & Red Label Flux for the larger filleted joints, & Carrs 179 Solder Cream for the smaller joins.

The spectacles were added to the cab front before it was soldered to the cab sides. This meant the rods (these were about 2in long) used could be laid on on the flat on a Tufnol block & placed in position with masking tape before soldering, which consisted of putting a small line of solder cream between the rod & the cab front & placing the tip of the iron about 1mm away on the surface of the nickel silver sheet. Once you get the hang of it it's a lot easier than one might imagine. It's the first time I've tried using nickel silver & it seems to be a lot easier to use than brass as it keeps the heat applied to a more localised area, so I was able to run solder up the inside of most of the cab front/side joint without the solder holding the spectacles in place melting

Likewise the lamp irons on the smokebox front were soldered using lengths of rod with solder cream on in the flat before attaching it to footplate (though one has since fallen off). I added a smoke box door sealing ring made out of 5 thou brass, this was cut to roughly the diameter required using scissors, a hole was drilled in the middle and it was placed on the mandrel of my mini drill and turned down to the required size using a file, and then soldered on.
Unfortunately at some stage the smoke box door shifted position as is not longer centrally located on this ring, but I think it will do


I can't wait to see what you do about the tender, as that is my biggest hang up with this model. 

You might have a long wait, I'll probably leave the tender to the autumn/fall so my poor wee engine will have to spend the summer hauling its monster tender around :)

Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 22, 2016, 12:51:38 pm
I can be patient! :)

Also, thank you for providing all of that wonderful 'how-to' information! I am carefully watching different scratch and kit building threads to learn some skills before I try my hand and this sort of this is incredibly helpful! The Tillbury Tanks topic is wonderful and if he has written a book, I will definitely buy it :) Thank you for bringing that to my/our attention!

Amazing work and thanks for the pictures and information!!!!

Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Southernboy on February 22, 2016, 07:44:40 pm
I'll second that 'thank you' for the detailed and helpful information. I'll be following this one, and good luck! :)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on February 22, 2016, 08:55:03 pm
Thanks think I'll need a bit of luck as something is bound to go badly wrong sooner or later. Still, I managed to replace the chimney today without total mishap, replacing the Drummond one with an earlier stovepipe version to give the loco a more antiquated look  I used an NBrass "tall chimney"  for this with the top flanged bits removed by turning in the micro drill, it's only in temporarily and needs some more work on the seating

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_35730.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=35730)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 10, 2016, 12:08:11 am
Thanks think I'll need a bit of luck as something is bound to go badly wrong sooner or later. Still, I managed to replace the chimney today without total mishap, replacing the Drummond one with an earlier stovepipe version to give the loco a more antiquated look  I used an NBrass "tall chimney"  for this with the top flanged bits removed by turning in the micro drill, it's only in temporarily and needs some more work on the seating

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_35730.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=35730[/url])


Looking fantastic :)

On another note, on your advice, I ordered Simon Bolton's book and wanted to thank you, as it has arrived today and I couldn't be happier with it or feel more inspired by it :) Anyone else who wants to scratch build but hasn't a clue in the world how to do it could really benefit from the skills he demonstrates in it.
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on March 10, 2016, 11:17:01 pm
Thanks am glad you're finding the book a good read. One thing I like about it is that that is does not assume much prior knowledge on the part of the reader unlike a couple of other books I'd previously looked at.
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 11, 2016, 09:17:04 am
Thanks am glad you're finding the book a good read. One thing I like about it is that that is does not assume much prior knowledge on the part of the reader unlike a couple of other books I'd previously looked at.

I totally agree. He seems to give a good basic introduction to every step and to the skills involved and has an easy and conversational tone that makes for enjoyable reading, compared to the dry style normally offered by such books. Thanks again for the recommendation. :)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: bigbadbadge on March 26, 2016, 09:39:40 pm
Hi what great work. This is a fantastic thread and very informative, maybe one day I will pluck up the courage to improve one of my locos, but am not that brave yet. 

Thanks for sharing the helpful info and keep up the good work

All the best

Chris
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on April 06, 2016, 11:44:22 pm

Am now nearly ready to start painting. Most of the pipes and other details are just in place  temporarily and will be removed before spraying. One change I made was to completely remove the white metal for the centre splashers which extended all the way across on the UM original, this has opened up a lot more space under the boiler.

I did mean to have another go at shaping the main handrail, but inadvertently soldered it in place when using it as a guide to locate the handrail knobs for soldering so never mind

The chaps in the cab are from NBrass
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/4/thumb_37772.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37772)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/4/thumb_37773.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37773)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/4/thumb_37774.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37774)

Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on April 07, 2016, 01:02:59 pm

Am now nearly ready to start painting. Most of the pipes and other details are just in place  temporarily and will be removed before spraying. One change I made was to completely remove the white metal for the centre splashers which extended all the way across on the UM original, this has opened up a lot more space under the boiler.

I did mean to have another go at shaping the main handrail, but inadvertently soldered it in place when using it as a guide to locate the handrail knobs for soldering so never mind

The chaps in the cab are from NBrass
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/4/thumb_37772.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37772[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/4/thumb_37773.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37773[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/4/thumb_37774.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37774[/url])

Richard


Golly that sure is turning out beautifully! Can't wait to see how she looks painted up :) Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Caz on April 07, 2016, 08:07:19 pm
That does look nice, well done that man.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: simon.bolton on April 09, 2016, 08:59:33 pm
That is beautiful work Richard, a lovely little loco!

Simon
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on April 09, 2016, 10:26:06 pm

Thanks Simon

It's my first attempt at doing anything more than minor detailing and as mentioned above I found your book to be very helpful as a guide on how to go about it

Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on June 05, 2016, 07:12:18 pm

I've been experimenting with a new chassis for the above and thought I would try to make use of finescale wheels.

The frame sides are made of 0.3mm thick phosphor bronze strip (ideally I would have used 0.5mm but I didn't have any). The axle hole centres were located by glueing the coupling rod ( I used a 2mm Assocation "Farish replacement" etch for the rods, the 4F rods on this by luck being at the right spacing for the Adams 395 as well) to two strips tack soldered together and drilling 0.5mm pilot holes. I then progressively used larger drills until I had a diameter of 1.5mm, and then cut out the slots. Unfortunately I forgot to check the rod was straight before drilling the holes so the centre hole was 0.1mm higher than the outer two.

I then tack soldered the frame sides to a spacer formed by 1.5mm double sided PCB, this being scored with a scrawker down the middle to electrically isolate the 2 frame sides to give a split chassis arrangement in which all wheels pick up current

The wheels are 2mm Association 10.5mm ones which come with a stub axles. These were joined by temporary muffs made from cotton bud sticks with some glue in to give a push fit for the axles, note that the proper acetyl muffs for use with the axles apparently aren't that suitable for playing around with.

After a lot of effort I ended up with a wheel back to back of 8.0mm, with the temporary muffs cut to allow about 1mm of lateral play within the frames, and a gap between the outside of the wheels and the temporary crankpin washers (made from wire cable outer) about 1mm as well. I used a spring instead of the normal Union Mills drawbar as I found the latter would give the frame too much of a jolt, this also means that all the wheels on the loco chassis can provide current to the motor

I was pleasantly surprised at how it all worked out. It will just about go around 9in Peco Setrack curves, will go through Peco Code 55 medium & large radius points & the 3 way point, and will also go along straight 9.42m gauge track. However the wheels fall off the rail if I try it on a 9.42mm gauge 12 in  radius curve. The loco runs with a slight wobble. I was managing to get scale speeds down to about 7 mph through the pointwork which is pretty similar to what I get with the normal UM loco chassis, hopefully a bit of further tweaking and use of the actual (heavier) loco body will improve performance.

One thing I did with some of the points including the 3 way was to follow a tip given by Noel Leaver elsewhere and to use a length of Code 40 rail against the wingrail to reduce the flangeway gap to about 0.7mm. This avoids the bump you get on unmodified Peco points, though the chassis wil still run through without this modification

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/4039-050616190426.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/4039-050616190540.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/4039-050616190624.jpeg)

Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Dorsetmike on June 05, 2016, 09:06:59 pm
Soon won't be anything left of the original UM loco, I can see a tender rebuild following. :whistle:  (http://www.animateit.net/data/media/june2010/avatar.gif)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on June 06, 2016, 11:23:09 am
Yes it seems to be the way things are going what with not even the poor old drawbar surviving. I think the next step may be trying out Farish tender wheels with pickups.  Alternatively I could maybe saw the tender drive in half lengthways, insert a cigarette paper, and glue the 2 sides back together to give me a split chassis, but it doesn't seem a very prudent course of action

Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: paulprice on June 06, 2016, 11:35:12 am
Wow and I though I was a bit extreme with some of my rebuilds

Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on June 07, 2016, 10:03:09 pm
Wow and I though I was a bit extreme with some of my rebuilds

I didn't plan anything of this scale at the start, but one thing kind of leads to another  as I guess you well know from your Farish adventures. I don't really know what I'm doing, but seem to have avoided disaster so far. I'm sure it will happen sooner or later.  Mind you one reason I'm doing a new chassis is that I noticed the keeper plate of the original one was a bit bent so I put it in the vice to straighten it with scant regard for the yield stress of white metal and  it ended up significantly unstraight. I think it must be a lot slower doing it this way than starting completely from scratch, but it's a bit less daunting and you can always stop whenever you like and still have a working loco

Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: SOUTHFAN on June 21, 2016, 01:12:38 pm
That looks really good.  A union mills still in production?  I was after one of the old 700  class
all the best
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on June 21, 2016, 02:01:51 pm
Thanks & welcome to the forum.

It acquired a coat of "Holly Green" this morning, will post some pictures when I've put all the bits back on

Union Mills are still going strong, there is no website, but you can give Colin a call on 01624 852896 to find out what's in stock

Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on June 21, 2016, 08:13:37 pm
That looks really good.  A union mills still in production?  I was after one of the old 700  class
all the best

I believe the 700 is/was scheduled for a rerun by Colin for this month; so call him!
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: SOUTHFAN on June 24, 2016, 04:50:18 pm
I didn't think I would get a result that quickly - thanks for that I will ring him.
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on December 29, 2016, 09:59:13 pm

Have put the body together with a new chassis and given it some paint.

This chassis makes use of the Union Mills wheels and coupling rods. The wheels have been modified by gently clamping  the original UM axle into the chuck of a mini drill with the wheel attached. I reduced the flange depth from 0.7 to 0.5mm, took some material off the back of the wheel & took some off the front of the wheel to reduce the overall width from 2.3mm to 2.0mm. I guess I could have thinned them down a bit more, but wasn't feeling that brave.

I'm pleased with the result, with the wheels running OK, looking a lot better & not standing out so much, however the real plus is the amount of extra clearance created in the splashers.

I also made a new keeper plate from nickel silver sheet. This involved drilling holes which I then formed into vertical slots for the wheels by filing.

I sprayed it using a can of black Pro XL 1K Primer Surfacer which is an acid etch primer with a satin finish. I then used Maskol to mask off the areas I wanted to remain black and sprayed with Citadel Caliban Green paint using a Badger 250 Spray Gun. I've yet to apply any varnish or transfers

Richard

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/4039-291216214842.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/4039-291216215019.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/4039-291216215106.jpeg)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Southernboy on December 29, 2016, 10:24:14 pm
What an exquisite model - a delightful locomotive - and a project you should be justifiably proud of :)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on January 16, 2017, 01:12:47 pm
Have made a start on the tender. I replaced the original wheels with Grafar China production wheels. These are larger (8mm v 6mm) than the original and are insulated from the axle. Unfortunately the ones I got mount on to a 1.6mm diameter axle, whereas the UM axle is 1.5mm, however a combination of thread lock and then ZapagAP where needed seems to give a good push fit. 0.3mm Phosphor Bronze pickups were fitted to both sides, the ones on one side being soldered to the chassis with low melt solder and the ones on the other being soldered to 0.25mm PCB which was then glued on, with cigarette paper being glued to the chassis to insulate it.

I ran it with a test weight of a pound coin on top. I took some material off the flanges of the middle wheels to stop them fouling the motor, plus also had to pare away a bit of the chassis in places. Doesn't run too badly, obviously not as good as the original UM tender with its heavy tender & traction tyres. It can handle hauling the loco and 6 wagons which is enough for me. It can start to lose traction on 9in radius curves and on bad spots on the track, e.g. where I have a Code 40 to Code 55 to Code 80 transition. Also it can't crawl over points because once a loco wheel drops into the gap it starts to slip as it tries to dig it out

Would be grateful for any suggestions on how to improve its running
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/4039-160117130454.jpeg)


Then made a template out of card & plastic to represent the tender as shown below. Vertically I think I'll be OK with the coal piled up. The new tender is about 5mm shorter than the UM one which means I'll be left with a bit of a protrusion at the front where the mounting screw goes. I reckon the tender body will weigh around 12g which will be slightly more than the weight of the pound coin used for testing(9g)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/4039-160117130539.jpeg)
Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on January 16, 2017, 08:08:15 pm
Wow Richard! I hadn't checked in on this thread in a while and so much has happened! Amazing work! Looking very forward to seeing how the tender turns out!

Philip
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on February 13, 2017, 08:25:26 pm
Have made a start on the tender body and now have a better idea how things will fit. As can be seen from the pics below I won't need too much coal to cover the motor. As the rear of the body is only c 1mm from the rear of the rear wheel  I've had to take about 3mm off the rear of the chassis. Fortunately I plan to use a DG coupling so should be able to make a bracket to hold a truncated coupling and then glue that to the chassis.

There is also quite a bit of space around the motor to allow me  to put a fair amount of lead in the corners

Richard

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/4039-130217201613.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/4039-130217201514.jpeg)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Atso on February 13, 2017, 09:19:01 pm
Wow, now this is a detailing project an a half and that 395 doesn't half look good!

I notice that you've fitted a Mashima motor (now rarer than Hen's teeth!), I've got one tender so converted (currently with another member) and I love the way it will sleeper crawl! Regarding your tender, adding weight will help but I suspect it will be difficult to get it anywhere near the original weight of the tender. I'm having to have a complete rethink regarding my 3D printed tender for my J6. I retained the original UM wheels and traction tired and stuffed the body with as much lead as I could fit. Performance was disappointing and I'll have to make a replacement tender which will be cast in white metal. All that being said, if you're only looking to move half a dozen wagons, you'll probably be ok.

Tongue firmly in check here: Having done all that exceptional work to this locomotive, it seems a shame not to fit it with see-through spoked wheels...  ;)

I'll get my coat!

P.S. Did I mention just how good the 395 is looking!  8)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on February 14, 2017, 09:11:32 pm
Thanks Steve

Fortunately I got myself a couple of spare Mashima 1015 motors a year or so ago for future projects, didn't realise they were going out of production. I did have a look for something similar in the recent batch of "cheap Chinese motors on eBay", but couldn't seem to find anything, agree the performance is very good, not sure how the new UM motor fitted to the Dean Goods and Dukedog compares to it.

I did a trial fill of the tender body today with lead & brass and got the total weight to 30g, which is about half the UM weight of around 60g. It can handle about half a dozen wagons, but doesn't like gradients or 9in/10.5in  curves. I plan to bring forward a plan to extend the layout by about 4in on the rear & sides to allow me to have a minimum radius of 12in and remove the gradients which should be better

I was disappointed to hear about your J6 tender problems. Another job I've got going is a new tender body for the UM LNWR G2, I've made the body out of nickel silver and the plan is  to cut off the original tender body & stick the new one one top, keeping the UM whitemetal underframe and chassis including the original wheels. I was assuming this would have enough weight to run reasonably well, but your experience seem to suggest otherwise. Will have to see how it turns out I guess. I suppose the problem with doing it in whitemetal is that the tender will be about 1mm or so oversize in width & height

I did think about the wheels as although the body has many flaws the wheels do seem to let it down a bit. I did try a trial split frame loco chassis using 2mm Assoc wheels (described above) which ran OK on 9mm gauge track. However the problem I've got is that I'm gradually converting my Peco Code 55/80 mixture to Code 40 9.42 mm gauge with c 0.8mm (i.e. N/NMRA) clearances on the flange ways and that the chassis will run on one or the other, but not both. What I might do when I've got enough 9.42mmm gauge track down is to replace the loco chassis with the 2mm Assoc wheels one, while keeping the tender one with its Grafar wheels.

I did look on the BR Lines & Dapol spares websites to see if I could see any spokeless wheel, but couldn't seem to find any. I guess I'll just have to wait for you to produce some nice 3D printed brass ones as part of your product range  :)

Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on March 25, 2017, 05:07:25 pm
Have done some more work on the tender adding underframes and top. Have added some beading to the top of the flange, unfortunately I hadn't allowed for the height of this when making the flanges so the tender sides are now slightly higher than they should be. The beading also altered the flange curve at the front of the body. Also made a mistake in making the body 0.5mm too short so the tender sides have a different aspect ratio c.w. the prototype. I also set the distance between the underframes to suit NMRA (7.6mm) wheel back to backs plus with the Farish wheels being 2.3mm wide the underframes are further out than I would have liked.

Made the toolboxes & coal out of lead, plus lined the inside of the body with it as well. Current weight is 39g (with another 3g to be added when I add the rear toolbox, axleboxes & other details) c.w 64g for the original tender.  It's comfortable hauling half a dozen wagons around, and can manage to pull a dozen wagons around a 9in curve though it doesn't sound that happy.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/4039-250317165728.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/4039-250317165922.jpeg)

I replaced the pickups with lengths of phosphor bronze wire soldered to the tender body and which brush against the top of the wheels (just visible in the photo below). Found this gave a major improvement in slow running c.w. having the pickups brush against the wheel backs. It took quite some time to find the appropriate wire thickness (0.2mm) and pickup angles (c 20 deg). As can be seen in the photo the tyre pickups are prone to picking up dirt and need regular cleaning. The body is secured via a 10BA screw at the front with the sides of the motor mount being a snug fit with the lead lining the body sides


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/4039-250317170033.jpeg)

Another change was to remove the flanges on the middle wheels as these would sometimes foul the underside of the motor

The photo below shows the arrangement for transferring traction & current between loco & tender. Hollow brass tube was soldered to single sided PCB which was then glued to the tender frame. A length of phosphor bronze wire was soldered to the loco cab floor & bent through 90 degrees so as to slot inside the tube. Seems to work quite well

Richard

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/4039-250317170158.jpeg)
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 25, 2017, 06:18:15 pm
Looking great, Richard! You've got some neat ideas here for how to get things done. In particular I love your idea for transfering pickup from the loco to tender! Very neat little system :) and don't get too worried about .5mm. At the end of the day that's 3 scale inches. I doubt we would notice if someone shaved 3" off a full scale tender ;) Thanks for the update and keep up the good work!
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on March 25, 2017, 10:27:08 pm
Thanks Philip.

It took a while to get the loco/tender connection right, I found it only needs to be slightly out to get the tender pushed out of alignment so that you lose traction on the wheels or electrical connectivity from the track.

As you say the tender is only out by 3in or less horizontally and vertically which isn't a lot compared to the overall size of the thing and I had initially thought that it wouldn't matter, but it does seem to have a noticeable effect on the appearance so that if you look at a photo of the real thing there is a difference with the real thing looking sleeker


Richard
Title: Re: LSWR Adams 395
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on June 30, 2017, 07:40:21 pm
Some more progress ...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/4039-300617193643.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/4039-300617193807.jpeg)

The decals are Fox LSWR Wagon ones, the cabside numerals are the correct size, but I think maybe the tender side lettering is a bit to big. It should also be a shade of green rather than white. Also I haven't attempted to do any lining.

The white metal axles boxes came from the 2mm Association and are for a Great Eastern Y14 / J15, I've modified them a bit to try to get them to look more like the Adams ones.

Hope to do some more work on the loco chassis sometime.

Richard