N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: Mirrlees on October 26, 2014, 11:53:01 pm

Title: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Mirrlees on October 26, 2014, 11:53:01 pm
It is with regret that the committee has accepted the resignation of Carol Hansen as the Shop Manager.

The Shop is now not accepting any more orders and is effectively closed.  However, every effort will be made to process those orders already received.  While the Shop is closed, a stock take will be completed followed by the implementation of a new computer shop order processing system.

The Stand is not affected by the temporary closure of the shop.

Currently it is not known when it will be possible to re-open the Shop, but details will be given on the Website and announcements made in the earliest possible Journal/Newsletter.

In the interim we will be looking at introducing a temporary system for the processing the orders of Society wagon kits and Society RTR products. Details for the operation of this will also be provided on the Website once it has been organised and put in place.

In the meantime if you have any issues regarding Shop matters please contact Dave Baverstock, chairman@ngaugesociety.com.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on October 27, 2014, 06:02:48 am
Is Carol ok?

She has done an amazing job for us and our Society.

I'd like to thank her for doing this, giving up her free time and large parts of her home to store stock.

Thank you Carol!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Buzzard on October 27, 2014, 06:12:58 am
She has done an amazing job for us and our Society.
Agree with that and orders were always processed well within the target of 28 days.

Nigel
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Bealman on October 27, 2014, 06:22:37 am
Yes, obviously living were I do I don't know Carol personally, and I am a relatively new member. However, it is obvious that she was very professional in the role. The couple of items I have purchased arrived very promptly, even here at the Antipodes.

Best wishes to her for the future.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: NeMo on October 27, 2014, 06:34:47 am
I'd like to thank Carol and those working the NGS shop too. Amazing effort.  :thankyousign:

If clouds do have silver linings, then using this hiatus in shop business to stocktake and computerise the store will be very useful.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: GrahamB on October 27, 2014, 08:45:36 am
Thanks to Carol and all her hard work.

As has already been stated, hope she is OK.

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: ThePurplePrimer on October 27, 2014, 09:35:29 am
ooops

I have just this very moment finished signing up and paying for my NGS membership so I could order my first N gauge wagon kit  :doh:
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on October 27, 2014, 10:32:26 am
Rob

I suggest you submit your order anyway.  As Tim mentioned, it looks pretty feasible for us to run a temporary shop just selling the NGS RTR and kits range ie essentially what is already held via the stand.

Orders may take a few days longer than usual as we deal with all the logistics, but hopefully there will not be too much disruption on that side of things.

Cheers, Mike

(NGS Product Development Officer)
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Western Exile on October 27, 2014, 10:37:09 am
Thanks from me as well, Carol. I have ordered a fair amount from the shop and have been impressed with the service considering it's run in someone's free time.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: PaulCheffus on October 27, 2014, 12:57:30 pm
Rob

I suggest you submit your order anyway.  As Tim mentioned, it looks pretty feasible for us to run a temporary shop just selling the NGS RTR and kits range ie essentially what is already held via the stand.

Orders may take a few days longer than usual as we deal with all the logistics, but hopefully there will not be too much disruption on that side of things.

Cheers, Mike

(NGS Product Development Officer)

Hi

Does that include spare parts from the kits?

I would also like to echo the comments regarding Carol's well being.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on October 27, 2014, 01:06:40 pm
Hi Paul

The honest answer is I don't know, though I would have thought that it will be difficult to supply spare parts. We were always going to have to close the Shop for a period to enable a full stock take and implement the new shop IT system.

We will let everyone know once we have a clearer idea of what is going to be possible.

Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 27, 2014, 01:32:22 pm
I am always amazed she managed to run all of what she did at all, let alone for many years. I hope

I hope the society can find an appropriate way to thank her (and Ray) for their huge contributions.

Alan
(and if I can help with anything  do let me know)
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Bigric on October 27, 2014, 05:43:41 pm
I hope that I'm not speaking out of turn here , and I apologise sincerely  to anyone concerned if that is  the case , & if this is not correct information , BUT a few weeks ago I was chasing up an order from Modelmaster decals . In the course of the conversation the guy there & I were discussing obtaining decals from the NGS shop & he told me that Ray & Carol had been involved in a serious car accident , over the summer I think he said . They were both OK & were recovering . That may well have a bearing on delays & on the current situation , obviously not for me to say . Ric
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: captainelectra on October 27, 2014, 09:44:47 pm
I would like to echo my best wishes to Carol an Ray. Their hard work for the NGS is much appreciated.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: daveg on October 27, 2014, 09:52:49 pm
I would like to echo my best wishes to Carol an Ray. Their hard work for the NGS is much appreciated.

Hear, hear!

Dave G
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: trkilliman on October 27, 2014, 10:25:07 pm
I have met Ray & Carol just once at the Thornbury Bristol show, probably around 10 years back now. They have more than done their stint I would think. In the last few days I have taken Ben A's advice and sent off my deposit for the Collett BG. Given the statement re' Carol's position will the mail be picked up, as if it stockpiles it will cause an eventual headache for some poor soul.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: MikeDunn on October 28, 2014, 09:40:00 am
Just been catching up after a few days ... sad news :(  And I just sent a small order off over the week-end too :(
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: joe cassidy on October 28, 2014, 12:49:24 pm
I agree with Etched Pixels that Carol deserves some form of recognition for all the years of service.

Best regards,


Joe
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on October 31, 2014, 01:27:30 pm
its such a shame whats going on in the society lately, because of this resignation (not her fault, i dont blame her for resigning!) myself and many others now cannot order parts we need to do modifications!

im after the 1960s east coast pullman car set, so i can rename literally 1 pullman! all i need is robin!

i spoke to modelmaster and unfortunatly i cant get them through them due to the agreement with the society, so im now snookered!
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on October 31, 2014, 02:28:08 pm
Hi Portland-Docks

Even without Carol's resignation, the Shop was going to have to close to complete a stock check and to implement new software.  We had deliberately gone for the Christmas period as experience has shown us that this is a relatively quiet period for the Shop normally.

I think the key message is that we ask members for a bit of patience, but that in return we can say that the Shop will re-open as quickly as possible.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on October 31, 2014, 05:43:11 pm
Hi Portland-Docks

Even without Carol's resignation, the Shop was going to have to close to complete a stock check and to implement new software.  We had deliberately gone for the Christmas period as experience has shown us that this is a relatively quiet period for the Shop normally.

I think the key message is that we ask members for a bit of patience, but that in return we can say that the Shop will re-open as quickly as possible.

Cheers, Mike

so while the shop is shut, why cant we get the modelmaster transfers directly from modelmaster? surely since they are modelmaster products, if the shop is shut we should be able to still get his products through him? seems abit daft to me having this set up so that you can only get them through the society and even when its shut you still cant get his products!

paul
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Roy L S on October 31, 2014, 06:48:44 pm
From the apparent lack of a "Plan B" as far as the Shop is concerned it would seem that this is both unplanned and unexpected.

Without question Carol did an incredible job for many years and NGS members have been the beneficiaries. I hope that the shop issue is resolved quickly as it is one of the most significant and valuable features of the Society alongside the Journal and it could damage membership renewals (and new members) if it is not.

Roy
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: trkilliman on October 31, 2014, 07:45:43 pm
I have to agree that the shop is an important benefit of membership, and that any prolonged down time could result in the dissatisfaction and maybe loss of some members. With the reorganisation of the shop and online ordering facility,is it envisaged that overall sales will increase with online ordering?  If so, would processing the online orders / postal ordering, packing, despatching and re-ordering become more of an employee position as opposed to a volunteer position? 
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on October 31, 2014, 10:14:52 pm
From the apparent lack of a "Plan B" as far as the Shop is concerned it would seem that this is both unplanned and unexpected.

Roy - as I said earlier, it was always planned to close the Shop over Christmas.

If so, would processing the online orders / postal ordering, packing, despatching and re-ordering become more of an employee position as opposed to a volunteer position? 

Simply - no, I don't think that is realistic at the moment.

so while the shop is shut, why cant we get the modelmaster transfers directly from modelmaster? surely since they are modelmaster products, if the shop is shut we should be able to still get his products through him? seems abit daft to me having this set up so that you can only get them through the society and even when its shut you still cant get his products!

Some time ago the NGS purchased part of the Modelmaster range, I'm not really sure why they were never re-branded as part of the NGS range.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Roy L S on October 31, 2014, 10:27:48 pm
From the apparent lack of a "Plan B" as far as the Shop is concerned it would seem that this is both unplanned and unexpected.

Roy - as I said earlier, it was always planned to close the Shop over Christmas.

[





Hi Mike

I appreciate that you made that point, but (1) as of now the shop is effectively closed and no new orders are being taken, today is 31st October which is nowhere near Christmas and (2) there is no indication or indeed even as far as I can interpret plan of when exactly after Christmas trade will resume or in what form with the possible exception of wagon kits and RTR.

I am not criticising anyone here I just think it is important that the NGS is clear that this resignation of the NGS Shop Manager for whatever reason (which we may never know) is a major disruption during which time much of the NGS's significant and in many cases unique stock will not be available to it's members. I and many others I am sure would prefer a realistic appraisal of the situation to be communicated rather then "spin".

Regards

Roy


Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: NinOz on November 01, 2014, 01:41:04 am
<snip>
I think the key message is that we ask members for a bit of patience,............<snip>
Asking a bit much for some. ;D

Waiting patiently to try the new software on some kits and transfers. :angel:

CFJ
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Les1952 on November 01, 2014, 08:19:44 am

so while the shop is shut, why cant we get the modelmaster transfers directly from modelmaster? surely since they are modelmaster products, if the shop is shut we should be able to still get his products through him? seems abit daft to me having this set up so that you can only get them through the society and even when its shut you still cant get his products!

paul
[/quote]

Having tried to get products (two nameplates) out of Modelmaster that he advertises as being available direct and then taking 11 months and several emails and phone calls for him to eventually to tell me to go to the NGS shop(!) I think you would be far better (and most probably far quicker) waiting for the shop to reopen.  Failing that, for transfers try Fox or another of the alternative manufacturers.......

Contrast that with what happened when I tried the shop for these two nameplates and added a few other alternatives.  Ray sorted out from a list I sent a selection of twenty-odd and brought them to the NGS Worldwide Convention at Retford for me to browse through and make my selection.   In the end I bought all but one.  I'd originally gone direct to Modelmaster because the shop hadn't had a supply from him for some time.

I think that Carol and Ray have served the NGS exceptionally well with the shop over a great number of years.  Here's hoping the Society can find the dozen or so people it will need to replace them (even WITH a computer).

All the very best
Les


Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: trkilliman on November 01, 2014, 09:55:58 am
Quote from: trkilliman on Yesterday at 07:45:43 pm
If so, would processing the online orders / postal ordering, packing, despatching and re-ordering become more of an employee position as opposed to a volunteer position? 

Simply - no, I don't think that is realistic at the moment.


Another interested contributor to this thread ,Les, has said I hope you can find a dozen or so people to replace Carol and Ray.

So, I wonder what is realistic then red_death?  Something will need to be pulled out of the hat fairly quickly as volunteers are not always as forthcoming as one might hope for. The reason I muted the idea of an employee is that with such a huge membership I imagine there is some disposable income that could be used towards a paid person running the shop?  Carol and Ray will be a very hard act to follow, and if a volunteer/s can be found who can deliver the same level of service then great. I think a variety of options will need considering though, but maybe this is already happening.

I'm sure I speak for other contributors to this thread by saying we are certainly not throwing stones, simply very concerned that a prime benefit of NGS membership is now "temporarily" suspended.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: CarriageShed on November 01, 2014, 10:06:00 am
Some time ago the NGS purchased part of the Modelmaster range, I'm not really sure why they were never re-branded as part of the NGS range.

Cheers, Mike

Probably because customers of Modelmaster would have some idea of what to expect from the NGS Modelmaster range, while the shop listings can be extremely vague and lacking in information for those of us who are relatively new to the Society.

Hopefully the fully online shop, when it arrives, will be able to carry much more information about each product than the old paper listings ever did.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Bealman on November 01, 2014, 10:36:57 am
Like yourself Pete33, I am relative newcomer to the NGS. I also await the full online version of the shop with anticipation.

However, the brilliant stuff I ordered at the end of last year with the 'semi automatic' system arrived on time and I was most impressed.

I think we should give these folks a break and show patience.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Jerry Howlett on November 01, 2014, 04:05:55 pm
I was very sorry to hear that Carol has decided to call it a day.  Ray & Carol are not youngsters and have served the NGS and therefore the N GAUGE movement AS AN ONGOING HOBBY for many years.

If a company went bust we would all be saying shame but could do nothing about it, the NGS hopefully will find a way of re-opening the shop in the very near future. At the end of the day its not life threatening if we cannnot by a n gauge left handed sprocket for a few months.  Lets face it it closes every year for July and christmas holidays.

Oh and I have a list of stuff I was going to add to my BG order but I guess I will have to wait...   RANT OVER.

Jerry
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on November 03, 2014, 10:44:47 am
I appreciate that you made that point, but (1) as of now the shop is effectively closed and no new orders are being taken, today is 31st October which is nowhere near Christmas and (2) there is no indication or indeed even as far as I can interpret plan of when exactly after Christmas trade will resume or in what form with the possible exception of wagon kits and RTR.

I am not criticising anyone here I just think it is important that the NGS is clear that this resignation of the NGS Shop Manager for whatever reason (which we may never know) is a major disruption during which time much of the NGS's significant and in many cases unique stock will not be available to it's members. I and many others I am sure would prefer a realistic appraisal of the situation to be communicated rather then "spin".

Roy

I can't give you answers that I don't have, but at the same time please don't miss the answers that have already been given! Tim's original post already said that NGS products will be available from the stand and that we are looking into an interim solution for the majority of the Society's products.

I'm sorry that you think I'm trying to spin things - I'm not, I'm trying to give you all as much info as we can in a very fluid situation.  As I said, the reality is that the Shop was always going to have to close for some unknown length of time for two different reasons: 1) stock taking and 2) implementation of a new system.

Given that we are 1 week after Carol's resignation, our priority is to find a solution to move and store the vast amount of stock (no simple task) and that once we have a clearer idea about that then we can announce the interim system (which we already have in place and ready to go once we have the stock and assuming it is easy to get to).

We have already started to have volunteers offering to help with the Shop, though I am sure the Committee will welcome more (and indeed ask for volunteers at the appropriate time).

When we have more news then we will let everyone know.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Papyrus on November 03, 2014, 12:48:26 pm
 :thankyousign:
I've only just caught up with this thread and would like to echo what everyone else has said and add my thanks to Ray and Carol for their sterling work over the years. With a stock list to rival what many 'proper' shops might sell, I've often tried to imagine what their house looks like! I haven't bought much in recent years as I have had to put modelling to one side for some time but, whenever I have, the service has always been excellent.

Just one question - where does this leave the second-hand shop? Will it, for example, still be coming to Lancing this weekend?

Best of luck to the brave soul(s) who take the job on.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Mirrlees on November 05, 2014, 02:30:05 pm
http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=251&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=171 (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=251&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=171)
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: talisman56 on November 05, 2014, 07:27:54 pm
Thanks for that, Tim.

It is good to have some definite information about the change of management and timescales. Up 'till now it's been a more-or-less indefinite closure with no plan for future management, leading to much speculation and rumourmongering...
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: MikeDunn on November 06, 2014, 09:06:11 am
Given the uncertainty of what would happen with pending orders (mine was sent off only a few hours before we were told here ...), I was working on the assumption that it would be on hold until the new shop manager was able to process it (sometime next year, given the quantity of items to migrate to the new manager & the downtime planned for Christmas) ...

Imagine my delight last night when I got home to find the order waiting for me  :thumbsup:

15 out of 10 marks to Carol & Ray !!!  Their dedication will be hard to match & will be sorely missed - but after such a long stint, they deserve a nice rest  :D  All the best to them.

Mike
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Roy L S on November 08, 2014, 09:20:27 am
I appreciate that you made that point, but (1) as of now the shop is effectively closed and no new orders are being taken, today is 31st October which is nowhere near Christmas and (2) there is no indication or indeed even as far as I can interpret plan of when exactly after Christmas trade will resume or in what form with the possible exception of wagon kits and RTR.

I am not criticising anyone here I just think it is important that the NGS is clear that this resignation of the NGS Shop Manager for whatever reason (which we may never know) is a major disruption during which time much of the NGS's significant and in many cases unique stock will not be available to it's members. I and many others I am sure would prefer a realistic appraisal of the situation to be communicated rather then "spin".

Roy

I can't give you answers that I don't have, but at the same time please don't miss the answers that have already been given! Tim's original post already said that NGS products will be available from the stand and that we are looking into an interim solution for the majority of the Society's products.

I'm sorry that you think I'm trying to spin things - I'm not, I'm trying to give you all as much info as we can in a very fluid situation.  As I said, the reality is that the Shop was always going to have to close for some unknown length of time for two different reasons: 1) stock taking and 2) implementation of a new system.

Given that we are 1 week after Carol's resignation, our priority is to find a solution to move and store the vast amount of stock (no simple task) and that once we have a clearer idea about that then we can announce the interim system (which we already have in place and ready to go once we have the stock and assuming it is easy to get to).

We have already started to have volunteers offering to help with the Shop, though I am sure the Committee will welcome more (and indeed ask for volunteers at the appropriate time).

When we have more news then we will let everyone know.

Cheers, Mike

Hi Mike

For avoidance of any doubt, my comments were directed at the NGS rather than you personally, I appreciate that you are merely providing such information as the NGS has deemed appropriate. My point was really that this shouldn't have been a happening for which no plans were in place, both Carol and Ray were inevitably going to have to pass on the baton at some point.

Irrespective I know that people are doing their best to sort things out and things have moved on.

What would maybe be helpful is a bit more clarity put on the website regarding what is to be available from the NGS stands at exhibitions (I had possibly misunderstood this to be just wagon kits and RTR) and also to be clear what info the stand will need to deal with orders at shows (shop reference number etc).

Finally, just a thought, could (potentially) there be any way to place orders via e-mail and collect and pay at the shows it attends? Just a thought...

Regards

Roy






Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: thebrighton on November 08, 2014, 03:00:46 pm
Greetings,
Ray and Carol are still doing their bit for the NGS. Both were at the West Sussex area group exhibition in Lancing today running the NGS second hand shop. That's a fair bit of travelling for a one day exhibition. Pity that 90 % of the stock was continental.........
Gareth
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Papyrus on November 08, 2014, 03:18:33 pm
Pity that 90 % of the stock was continental.........
Gareth

They can only sell what they have been offered for the shop. I've just come back from Lancing too and I heard them say they had recently been left 3 complete collections. That's a very nice earner for the Society, but if all 3 were continental collections then it's bound to be a bit unbalanced... Also I suspect British stock sells quicker than US and continental.

I think they could profitably get shot of the 00 stuff though!

Chris
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: oreamnos on November 16, 2014, 02:08:55 am
I apologize in advance if I've got my information muddled.

My understanding (again, apologies if I'm wrong) was that the latest NGS RTR model is to be ready for delivery at Warley in about a week.

I put deposits down for two of these models (I confess I cannot recall what they are now!  A full brake of some sort that isn't what it started out as is all I remember.) quite some time ago and so I am wondering how I will now pay the balance and have them sent to me given that I live in California.  Any information about this would be most appreciated.

It's a pity about the shop.  I've used it fairly often to buy NGS kits and other items and have found both Carol and Ray extremely pleasant people to deal with.  I regret my interactions have only been via email.

I hope the shop situation is sorted without too much fuss.

Matt
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Ben A on November 16, 2014, 08:19:11 am

Hi Matt,

The NGS Collett brake was supposed to be ready for Warley, but some time ago we told members it wouldn't be.  Certainly such a notice was in the journal before last (or even the one before that!)

I was recently sent the painted samples (which is the final stage before production) and they were mostly good, with a few small tweaks here and there.   I thought photos were posted in the relevant threads on here and RM Web, and on the NGS website, but looking I can't see them so maybe I forgot, in which case apologies.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on November 16, 2014, 11:19:01 am
Hi Matt

The latest estimate from Dapol is that the Collett BG will be with us in the New Year.  Once we have them then we will contact members as usual to arrange the payment of balances. The temporary closure of the Shop should not affect that.

Cheers

Mike

(NGS Product Development Officer)
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Mirrlees on November 26, 2014, 11:20:49 am
The Society Shop is only closed temporarily and it is hope to be reopened partially in January 2015.

It has come to our notice that Model Master are claiming you should buy plates from them.  The agreement between N Gauge Society and ModelMaster is still in place.

You should not buy plates or transfers from Model master

David Baverstock
NGS Chairman
TEL: 0117 9763329
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on November 26, 2014, 11:26:09 am
Sorry but i think thats stupid, fair enough when you close normally but closing early prevents your members buying things! The agreement should be in place under normal circumstance but should something like this arise they can go to modelmaster for that short duration, its absolutly barmy it really is!
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Mirrlees on November 26, 2014, 11:32:23 am
Under the agreement, Model Masters, agreed not to sell the plates or decals.  We are just asking that the NGS members support this agreement.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on November 26, 2014, 11:34:55 am
Yeh which is fine while the shop is open or even closed during the norma winter period, but the fact you closed early meaning it was a longer period we could not order, so the agreement should be under special circumstances where he shop has to close for unseen circumstances we can still get the products we desire from the source.

I think the agreements need reviewing
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: DCCDave on November 26, 2014, 12:18:38 pm
Under the agreement, Model Masters, agreed not to sell the plates or decals.  We are just asking that the NGS members support this agreement.

I've not renewed my membership.

The shop situation is a farce, allow the shop to be closed ever is farcical.

I'll rejoin when I can order the full list of items from the shop on-line. Everyone at the NGS may be volunteers and may be putting lots of unpaid hours in but that's no excuse for running the organisation in such a way. Like it or not, the Internet happened years ago, the society has had oodles of time to get it's act together.

OH and I will be ordering direct from Model Masters!

A very disgruntled ex-member...
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on November 26, 2014, 12:28:46 pm
I renewed my membership and im wondering why to be honest, the people iv spoke to say the way things go on at the society is a farce and this shows it. Your preventing your own members from gaining the benefits of the membership. Its rediculous.

Things need to change there as i think you're losing more members than attracting now.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Papyrus on November 26, 2014, 12:29:46 pm
Instead of just complaining, perhaps you should volunteer to help out...??

Chris
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: DCCDave on November 26, 2014, 12:48:33 pm
Instead of just complaining, perhaps you should volunteer to help out...??

Chris


Standard answer, and one frankly I'm bored with.

From talking with other members who have experience of committee membership I see a picture of inertia and indecision. I'd find that fruitless and frankly not worth my time. I have a lot of regard for those who give up their time, but that's still no excuse for the abysmal state of affairs with the shop.

Dave
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: EtchedPixels on November 26, 2014, 12:51:56 pm
I would have thought now was the time if any to fix such things. There is now a period of chaos in which the rules are fluid and changing. Once it settles back down it'll drop into a new and different rut for 20 years until it goes wrong again....


As far as agreements go. The N Gauge Society web site says there is a "members shop". That's also an agreement  :P
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on November 26, 2014, 12:52:49 pm
Then to come up with this stupid bit on how we cant get stuff when the shop closes for unseen circumstances is rediculous, as i say the agreements need reviewing as its preventing members getting the benefits of the membership
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: PLD on November 26, 2014, 01:19:36 pm
The Society Shop is only closed temporarily and it is hope to be reopened partially in January 2015.

It has come to our notice that Model Master are claiming you should buy plates from them.  The agreement between N Gauge Society and ModelMaster is still in place.

You should not buy plates or transfers from Model master

David Baverstock
NGS Chairman
TEL: 0117 9763329
And that attitude that the Society is the play thing of the few and not run for the benefit of the members as a whole, (in this case in the form that the Society's income stream is more important than helping the members obtain the goods they want at a time when the Society is unable to fulfill their requirements) is the main reason why I am not a member...

You should be supporting the commendable action of Model Masters for temporarily reopening direct sales FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR MEMBERS whilst the Society shop is unable fulfill their needs.

You are not as you may think 'protecting' the society, instead you are P****** off your members...
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on November 26, 2014, 01:21:55 pm
Couldnt agree more!
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2014, 01:30:25 pm
The shop situation is a farce, allow the shop to be closed ever is farcical.

Dave

The choices are relatively simple:
- the NGS could run it more like a commercial entity (and not close, though even commercial shops close at some points) and pay higher prices as we would have to employ someone
- accept that it is not perfect and work within the limitations of volunteers

Given the situation that the Shop was in what alternatives exist but to:
- fulfil existing orders,
- temporarily close the shop to allow a stock take and implementation of a new system?

Getting the stock packed up, finding suitable storage and making the move has been a substantial logistical task in itself.

The existing system was not capable of being used for online sales without lots of manual intervention and even then would have meant a serious risk of stock being sold that we did not have (how would you control stock between offline and online sales?).  So damned if we do something about it and damned if we don't - I accept that is the lot of a Committee, but I would at least hope the criticisms were fair and realistic.

Cheers, Mike

(NGS Committee member)
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: DCCDave on November 26, 2014, 02:25:18 pm
Mike,

the NGS could run it more like a commercial entity (and not close, though even commercial shops close at some points) and pay higher prices as we would have to employ someone

If one thinks of the shop as more akin to an internet shop and not a bricks and mortar shop then no, they don't have to close at some point. Price is immaterial if I can't buy the products. Have the committee considered if higher prices would be something the membership would be willing to pay for a more available service?

Given the situation

Change in committee membership is a given - the committee should have seen this problem coming a mile off. While a functioning shop relies on one person (or family) then there will always be gaps in the service. Ensuring more than one person has access to the stock in order to dispatch it will clearly relieve that dependency, it's good practice never to have one of any role in an organisation (Big Red Bus syndrome).

The existing system was not capable of being used for online sales without lots of manual intervention and even then would have meant a serious risk of stock being sold that we did not have (how would you control stock between offline and online sales?). 

That's easily solved if offline orders are processed through the online system. And the society has had years to get the online shop problem solved.

So damned if we do something about it and damned if we don't - I accept that is the lot of a Committee, but I would at least hope the criticisms were fair and realistic.

Not at all. My criticisms are fair - if the society is not able to provide the service that I paid for, and was promised, then where should the criticism be levelled? At the members?

My frustration comes from the fact that a foreseeable problem has not been handled well. I'm not damning anyone, nor demanding the committee resign or any such rubbish. What I have done is declined to renew until there is a functional shop which at leasts gives a nod to the 21st century. If that inspires the committee to get on with it then all well and good. If not then I guess I'll not become a member again, as for me there would be little  point.

And Mike, and any other committee members reading this, let me make it clear. You are all volunteers and the members do appreciate that. But me, and several others I've discussed this with have decided that the society does not offer a good enough service to be worth the membership fee. Calling me (and others) unrealistic won't change that, what's needed is actions not excuses.

Dave

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2014, 02:47:40 pm
Dave

Sorry, but I think you are being unrealistic.

The current committee has to deal with the here and now as well as plan for the future. So yes, plans were underway to prepare for the departure of the Shop Manager as we like everyone else recognised that it was a single point of failure, but even with the best planning in the world I don't see the simple solution. It is all very well saying it should not have been in the control of one person (and I agree with the principle), but the reality is that is exactly the situation the NGS is in. We can sit and say that things should have been different and regardless of whether they should or shouldn't we still end up having to face the reality of the situation.

Of course putting offline sales through an online system solves the problem of stock availability, but again it is ignoring the current position.

The NGS Shop has not ever been akin to an internet shop and creating unrealistic (that word again) expectations does no one any favours. I'd rather we were honest with people. It is a service for the members run by the members not a commercial service.

There are many things I would change about the Shop with a blank slate (what it stocks, how it operates etc) - we have the best opportunity to change things now given that we do not have a blank slate and that is the process we are going through.

Of course everyone must make their own value judgements about whether NGS membership is worthwhile - I only speak for myself when I say that the temporary lack of the mail order Shop is frustrating but not the end of the world. Again for me it is certainly not something which dramatically skews my judgement of the value of NGS Membership - it is one part of a 16 sub (and not the main cost of membership).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: NeMo on November 26, 2014, 02:59:02 pm
There's clearly a lot of frustration on both sides. All I can say is that as an NGS member, I look forward to "normal services being resumed" but don't intend to cancel my membership or anything like that simply because the NGS Shop is out of commission.

I do wonder if a scaled-down shop might be developed (and ideally, put online) relatively quickly. Basically, stock a small core of items, perhaps just the NGS kits and the NGS ready-to-run/special commissions. That way members have access to the stuff that simply can't be obtained elsewhere (and, to some degree, justifies the expense of joining). All told that would be, what, fewer than a hundred items to deal with? The ordering process might even be "distributed" with a hundred members each taking charge of one kit or model. Someone central passes on the name and address of the person who wanted, say, a QM Brake Van, and that member takes it off to the post office that weekend for postage. I'd certainly be happy to take on that amount (!) of work, even with a job and newborn baby. So as a short term fix, that could work, couldn't it?

In the medium term useful but not essential items such as transfers might be added to the shop. Transfers that go with NGS kits would be obvious priorities here.

But there's a lot of stuff, such as old kits, might be added as and when. While it's nice to have access to (slightly) discounted P&D Marsh kits and the like, such bits can be ordered elsewhere without too much bother.

In the meantime, I wish everyone on the NGS committee well as they sort things out.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: ThePurplePrimer on November 26, 2014, 03:14:02 pm
I would like to offer a little feedback if I may but firstly I would like to say that I very much appreciate the efforts of the people who run the various model railway associations whatever the scale might be.

With that said...

 I decided after to join the association as I was seriously considering N gauge but wanted to build my own rolling stock. As the associations kits are only available to members ( which is fair enough ) I joined as a new member online.

I did this at around 9.30 am on the very morning after the announcement was made on here at just before midnight on the previous evening ( which I did not see )

There was nothing on the association website to indicate the closure of the shop. I received no contact after making my joining application and payment to warn me of the situation either.

I don't think I would have joined at this stage had I know that my main reason for joining was now invalid - ie I could not buy any wagon kits.

I don't know if this information is now clear on the association website but it certainly wasn't when I joined or in the following days when I looked.

I will admit to being disappointed

I have also now ruled out N gauge as well sadly

I understand things happen but it would have been nice if this situation had been made clear so I could have made a fully informed choice

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: NeMo on November 26, 2014, 03:19:36 pm
With that said I decided after to join the association as I was seriously considering N gauge but wanted to build my own rolling stock. Asks the associations kits are only available to members ( which is fair enough ) I joined as a new member online.
I have also now ruled out N gauge as well sadly
As I'm discovering, there are many, many more kits out there than just the NGS ones! Have you looked at Taylor Precision Models? BH Enterprises? Parkside Dundas? Etched Pixels? Mill Lane Sidings? P&D Marsh? Langley Models? N'Tastic? Electra Graphics?

I'm sure there are others too, but these cover all sorts of prototypes and some (the TPM and Parkside Dundas ones for example) are often nice and simple plastic kits with etched brass details ideal for beginners like me!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2014, 03:24:52 pm
Folks

Just to re-emphasise that NGS RTR and kits (if we have them in stock) are still available from the NGS Stand at various exhibitions.

Nemo - the scaled-down shop will almost certainly be phase 1 of the "new" shop.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Ben A on November 26, 2014, 03:42:36 pm

Hi NeMo,

You're right about the quality of TPM kits - it's one reason we are using him to fabricate the master for the van version of the KSA, and had him design several other NGS kits over the years...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: ScottyStitch on November 26, 2014, 03:48:42 pm
My understanding was that the shop was TEMPORARILY closing, and so this issue doesn't cause me all that much, if any, concern. If the shop were closing permanently, then that's a different matter.

Regarding stock, I would rather the shop only stocked items that weren't available anywhere else, plus the items that are required to complete a full kit (wheels, chassis, etc.) Access to the NGS kits is one of the main reasons I joined, that and the exclusives RTR models such as the snow plough, Brake coaches, etc. Not having that available for two or three months, well these things happen. Hopefully a better shop will emerge for it.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Calnefoxile on November 26, 2014, 04:39:11 pm

I can't understand why toys are being thrown out of prams in such a manner by people who are not members and trying to encourage others to lapse their memberships just because the 'Members only' shop is temporarily closed, and is going through a revamp to do exactly what people want it to be, i.e. an online shop.

The fact is that the shop was going to close over the xmas period anyway to carry out a stock take and start the process of creating an online shop. The fact that the resignation of the shop manager has bought that closure to an earlier date has thrown a bit of a spanner into the works because the stock take has now got to include the logistical nightmare of collecting all the stock from the shops current location and find somewhere else to store it all. This is not something that can be done overnight, it is a job that will take some extra time.

On the subject of the Transfers & Model Masters, I have to agree that the 'agreement' with Model masters is somewhat silly, but we are where we are and I'm sure the Committee are talking to each other and trying to come up with a solution as quick as possible.

So even though I'm not a Committee Member surely a degree of understanding and realisation that at the end of the day we are only grown men playing with toy trains and access to the shop is not the end of the world.

Regards

Neal
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: EtchedPixels on November 26, 2014, 04:42:31 pm
If the shop is back selling the NGS produced components, kits and RTR then thats in reality 99% of things covered except for international modellers who benefit rather a lot from shipping it all in one go. The plans to ensure the RTR gets sorted first seem rather sensible.

The rest is available direct (and usually for less because of the society VAT problem). There was a time when society shops really made a difference because everything was SAE for catalogue, cheque in the post stuff. That time has passed.

I'd also like to see the shop get a hard prune, or perhaps the "non society" stuff become a smaller operation run by the world wide group for the things they actually need and want.

A big problem in fixing it up must be the size of the operation. The 2mmSA has far few members but has about five people running the shop operation which I think carries less (if rather more esoteric) stock. How Ray and Carol ran the entire operation and kept up is a bit of a mystery to me, unless they had a secret arrangement to employ Santa's elves in the off season.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Mirrlees on November 26, 2014, 04:44:33 pm
I did this at around 9.30 am on the very morning after the announcement was made on here at just before midnight on the previous evening ( which I did not see )

There was nothing on the association website to indicate the closure of the shop. I received no contact after making my joining application and payment to warn me of the situation either.

........................


Which association are you talking about? The NGS website was the first place that the information was uploaded to.

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on November 26, 2014, 04:46:56 pm
I did this at around 9.30 am on the very morning after the announcement was made on here at just before midnight on the previous evening ( which I did not see )

There was nothing on the association website to indicate the closure of the shop. I received no contact after making my joining application and payment to warn me of the situation either.

........................


Which association are you talking about? The NGS website was the first place that the information was uploaded to.

really?

because i found out the information then when i checked the ngs website there was nothing about it? it was all over here and facebook but i couldnt see anything on the website...
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Mirrlees on November 26, 2014, 04:50:34 pm
It is still there, on the main page.

It is the second bullet point down.

Not sure how clearer it could be?
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: portland-docks on November 26, 2014, 04:52:13 pm
It is still there, on the main page.

It is the second bullet point down.

Not sure how clearer it could be?

yes its there now, wasnt when i first saw the news, soon as i saw it i went straight to the sight and i garuntee the news wasnt on their
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: ThePurplePrimer on November 26, 2014, 05:02:37 pm
Hi Tim

If it was there on that day then it would appear I somehow missed seeing it.

It is possible though that my google search ( I was looking for info on joining the N Gauge Society ) took me either straight to the 'benefits of membership page' or the ' join now page '

Neither of those pages mentioned then that the shop was closed ( and I just checked and they still don't )

The ' benefits ' page does however list the ability to buy kits for members only

Please don't think I am moaning - I am simply trying to point out how people could mislead themselves quite easily as to what joining ( at the moment ) will provide them.





I did this at around 9.30 am on the very morning after the announcement was made on here at just before midnight on the previous evening ( which I did not see )

There was nothing on the association website to indicate the closure of the shop. I received no contact after making my joining application and payment to warn me of the situation either.

........................


Which association are you talking about? The NGS website was the first place that the information was uploaded to.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: keithfre on November 26, 2014, 05:04:43 pm
Regarding stock, I would rather the shop only stocked items that weren't available anywhere else, plus the items that are required to complete a full kit (wheels, chassis, etc.)
I agree wholeheartedly.

I'd also be interested to know how many potential customers would NOT use the shop if it went completely online. As they presumably won't be reading this, perhaps the question could be asked in the Journal?
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: EtchedPixels on November 26, 2014, 05:12:29 pm
It is still there, on the main page.

It is the second bullet point down.

Not sure how clearer it could be?

yes its there now, wasnt when i first saw the news, soon as i saw it i went straight to the sight and i garuntee the news wasnt on their

Your ISP will quite possibly have cached it for a while even if its marked not to be cached.

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Tank on November 26, 2014, 05:38:53 pm
I suggest that if fellow NGS members feel they aren't able to wait for the shop to reopen then perhaps ask the NGS for a refund?

The NGS Shop is a huge undertaking and would be a major task to catalogue and sort out.  It's probably quite overwhelming, so I doubt there would be many volunteers who would be willing to take it on, or have the product knowledge and knowledge/time to upload it to an online shop.  Let's give it time for the new management to find a solution and to keep us updated with any progress.

As EP has pointed out, you may have had a delay in seeing an update on your computer.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: DCCDave on November 26, 2014, 09:38:14 pm
It is still there, on the main page.

It is the second bullet point down.

Not sure how clearer it could be?


The second 'bullet point' down:

----

In the interim we will be looking at introducing a temporary system for the processing the orders of Society wagon kits and Society RTR products. Details for the operation of this will also be provided on the Website once it has been organised and put in place.

----

There has been no further announcement on the website that I can see, which I presume means that the operation is not yet agreed/in place. Since there is no date on the post and I can't remember when the original announcement was posted I can't estimate how long this has taken thus far. Would someone in the know care to comment on when the details will be posted?

Dave
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2014, 10:03:07 pm
It was almost exactly a month ago that the Shop stopped taking new orders.  The Shop stock is being collected on Friday and moved to new locations. The temporary system has already been agreed and is ready to go but there was no point in announcing when it would be ready for use as we didn't know until recently when the stock would be moved or where it would go too. That is all clear now and then the priority is to count the stock and get the NGS products back on general sale (through an online system).

Mike


Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: DCCDave on November 26, 2014, 11:08:30 pm
It was almost exactly a month ago that the Shop stopped taking new orders.  The Shop stock is being collected on Friday and moved to new locations. The temporary system has already been agreed and is ready to go but there was no point in announcing when it would be ready for use as we didn't know until recently when the stock would be moved or where it would go too. That is all clear now and then the priority is to count the stock and get the NGS products back on general sale (through an online system).

Mike

Thanks Mike.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: talisman56 on November 26, 2014, 11:38:52 pm
Will this new on-line system enable us to see which Modelmaster nameplates are actually in stock or enable us to order specific number/nameplates - one of the bugbears of the old system was the inability of anybody to ascertain whether a specific nameplate was in stock and order it. I'm sure that 90% of customers wanted to rebrand their locos with a specific number/name, not order it 'and any other alternatives in case the one you want we don't have'. I'm not sure how many nameplates were sold under the old system, but I can't help thinking that if the system were more transparent and informative, a lot more could have been sold.

I tried a couple of times to order the specific nameplate I wanted and was unsuccessful, and therefore gave up. I am seriously tempted to give Modelmaster a ring now and see if they can supply the one I want...
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: NinOz on November 27, 2014, 07:07:51 am
I am confused about what is happening.  Initially I thought that society products (RTR, preorders, kits) would still be able to be purchased by mail order as normal but subsequent postings have indicated perhaps not so.  I find that the clarity of some NGS postings could have been improved to remove some of the uncertainty.

It would have been nice to see an action plan with timelines attached so that members could see what is to be or being done and when it is expected to be completed.
Something like;
Seek nominations for store staff 15/11/14
Move stock to temporary location 20/11/14
Interim limited purchasing  1/12/14
Appoint new store staff  1/1/15
Stock take 15/12/14
Inventory reduction  20/12/14
Software implementation  25/1/15
System trials  10/1/15
Online store live (limited inventory) 15/1/15
Review effectiveness 30/1/15
Full store online 20/2/15
etc

For NGS committee members:
Your efforts are appreciated.  :claphappy:
I hope the beating about the ears sustained in this thread has not been too painful. :)

Regards,
CFJ
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Caz on November 27, 2014, 08:50:32 am
I think the NGS Committee have got the message that some members are unhappy and the Committee are doing there best to resolve things as quickly as possible, any more beatings around the head will be unproductive,

Can I therefore ask NGF members to refrain from any more brickbats and leave this thread to the NGS Committee to announce when, where and what is happening.  Your co-operation in this will ensure this valuable thread doesn't end up being locked.

Thanks
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Bigric on November 27, 2014, 09:21:19 am
Thanks Caz , WELL SAID !!! Particularly about future announcements . Ric
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on November 27, 2014, 09:45:51 am
Will this new on-line system enable us to see which Modelmaster nameplates are actually in stock or enable us to order specific number/nameplates - one of the bugbears of the old system was the inability of anybody to ascertain whether a specific nameplate was in stock and order it.

Yes, it should do.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: EtchedPixels on November 27, 2014, 03:20:11 pm
It was almost exactly a month ago that the Shop stopped taking new orders.  The Shop stock is being collected on Friday and moved to new locations. The temporary system has already been agreed and is ready to go but there was no point in announcing when it would be ready for use as we didn't know until recently when the stock would be moved or where it would go too. That is all clear now and then the priority is to count the stock and get the NGS products back on general sale (through an online system).

Mike

Can I suggest you post some photos of the move on the web site. That might make people realise the scale of the challenge !
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on November 27, 2014, 06:53:13 pm
I am not sure that photographs would be very pretty but a 40 foot container and a 30 foot portacabin have been lined up to accept the stock and the move is happening over the weekend.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Agrippa on November 27, 2014, 07:04:21 pm
How much stock have they got?  :goggleeyes:

That's a helluva lot of transfers , buffers and nameplates !

(ps not a member)

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on November 27, 2014, 07:30:23 pm
According to last year's accounts, about 250,000

Why don't you join?

Alan (committee member)
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Agrippa on November 28, 2014, 12:20:49 am
That's a hefty sum , being a former auditor I have done more stock checks  than
most people have had hot dinners and when the items are v small that is scary.
I'm not a member because I'm an  rtr modeller and I run trains which are
seldom prototypical . I've often dealt with clubs, associations etc ,( non rail) and
know how  difficult these can be.

One thing  I wonder about, there often items of rolling stock which are NGS
special  commissions and the NGS does not sell these to non members due
to  tax reasons.If the society sold these at a higher price to non members
that would  compensate for the Corporation Tax  and possibly lead to
higher production runs.

Anyway good luck to the NGS .
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Mirrlees on November 28, 2014, 01:01:39 am
Hi Agrippa,

Selling to non-members also has the issues on conformance testing as well.  These costs in themselves out weigh the corporation tax issue.  I also believe that corporation tax would be due as our membership are volunteers and their work can be offset against any surplus. (I will stand corrected if wrong).
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: red_death on November 28, 2014, 11:03:51 am
One thing  I wonder about, there often items of rolling stock which are NGS
special  commissions and the NGS does not sell these to non members due
to  tax reasons.If the society sold these at a higher price to non members
that would  compensate for the Corporation Tax  and possibly lead to
higher production runs.

CT is an issue and it is another hassle in terms of record keeping if selling to non-members but I actually think there is a much more fundamental reason in that the NGS is there to serve its members who provide the financial stability to be able to commission capital intensive projects like kits and RTR.  So by offering the kits and RTR to non-members we reduce the attractiveness of membership and we might sell more stock, but if the membership falls too much then ultimately we are left being unable to commission more...

We want to encourage people to join and kits/RTR are part of the incentive!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Bigric on November 28, 2014, 12:06:18 pm
RE NGS STOCK.....many , many thanks to  those people who have put on the 2 posts outlining the SCALE of the job involved in moving the stock . I think that few of us realised/knew just how much stock the Shop was actually sitting on ! This crucial info puts into perspective just exactly WHY it's taken a bit of time organising the handover to whichever kind soul(s) is/are taking over . Again , THANKS to all involved , hope it goes smoothly ! Keep the faith , Brothers & Sisters !! Cheers , Ric
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on November 28, 2014, 12:38:41 pm
Thank you for your support.

The plan is to separate the stock into "RTR, kits, transfers, nameplates" and "the rest".

We aim to count and list the first group as quickly as possible and get a temporary shop up and running as soon as we can although nothing has been finalised yet.

As to "the rest"; the jury is currently out!

Alan (Committee member)
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: CarriageShed on November 28, 2014, 01:15:40 pm
Can I suggest you post some photos of the move on the web site. That might make people realise the scale of the challenge !

Some sort of photoblog that covers the move would do more to generate good feeling and understanding towards the shop's temporary closure than so many pages of text on this thread.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on November 29, 2014, 03:46:27 pm
No photographs, I am afraid, but for the avid followers of the saga, the stock destined for Skegness is in situ and, as we speak, the remainder of the stock is in a broken down lorry on the M1!!!

Alan
NGauge Society Treasurer
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: daveg on November 29, 2014, 04:38:45 pm
Some progress then re Skegness.

Do hope the driver(s) and the stock on the M1 are rescued very soon and can be safely on their way.

Dave G
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on November 29, 2014, 05:31:00 pm
Latest update:
Driver and co-pilot are being despatched home by train - quite appropriate for a railway society!, courtesy of the AA, and stock remains locked up on the M1 until Monday when the AA will repatriate it.

Alan - NGS Treasurer
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Tdm on November 29, 2014, 05:45:12 pm
As a recently joined new NGS member and having looked at what is available in the rtr category, I would love to place an order for some the things that have taken my fancy.

Any ideas as to when I will be able to place an order (for delivery to Tenerife) - is it likely to be next year (2015) at the earliest, and will an announcement be made about the re-availability?.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: free debt man on November 29, 2014, 11:56:59 pm
Welcome to the Society. As you will have gathered we are in process of re-organisation. We are hoping to be able to deal with orders at least for Society produced items within the next few weeks as soon as a stock take is finalised & a full on line shop system created. Further announcements on progress will be made on the Society website http://ngaugesociety.com/ (http://ngaugesociety.com/) and this and other forums.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: SheldonC on December 10, 2014, 02:30:20 am
After a flurry of activity, there seem to have been no more posts on the subject of the NGS Shop since 29/11/14, or am I doing something wrong?  I only get 7 pages; are there any more?  Perhaps the reorganization is taking up 100% of available time resources.  Wishing good luck to all involved.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: SheldonC on December 10, 2014, 02:32:48 am
Consider the first part answered.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on December 10, 2014, 08:02:31 am
There has, indeed, been an apparant silence for the last 10 days because there is nothing new to report.
The counting of some 1500 stock lines continues, the assessment of suitable stock control / point of sale software continues, the consideration of the most appropriate way to get a temporary shop up and running continues.  The Committee believes that the re-opening of a temporary shop is the first priority but doing so must not jeopardise the other objectives.  Be assured that an anouncement will be made when there is something new to communicate.

Alan
NGS Treasurer

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: SheldonC on December 10, 2014, 02:38:16 pm
"Good on yer," as they say; more power to your collective elbow. +

SheldonC

  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: SheldonC on December 16, 2014, 12:30:40 pm
The Society Shop is only closed temporarily and it is hope to be reopened partially in January 2015.

It has come to our notice that Model Master are claiming you should buy plates from them.  The agreement between N Gauge Society and ModelMaster is still in place.

You should not buy plates or transfers from Model master

David Baverstock
NGS Chairman
TEL: 0117 9763329
And that attitude that the Society is the play thing of the few and not run for the benefit of the members as a whole, (in this case in the form that the Society's income stream is more important than helping the members obtain the goods they want at a time when the Society is unable to fulfill their requirements) is the main reason why I am not a member...

You should be supporting the commendable action of Model Masters for temporarily reopening direct sales FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR MEMBERS whilst the Society shop is unable fulfill their needs.

You are not as you may think 'protecting' the society, instead you are P****** off your members...

I cannot speak for anyone else, but the Society is not T***** me off (sorry, my spelling is deteriorating with age) with its rigid adherence to the exclusivity agreement, though it is inconvenient when you find yourself receiving presents that duplicate existing stock and you're looking forward to being able to change their identities.  Failure to adhere to the agreement would undermine the foundations of the society, if only a little.  Is there scope for the Society to use the suppliers as a different kind of resource, acting as agents of NGS whilst supplying the goods direct to the members in this time of need?  In the mean time, I'm building up quite a Wish List.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on December 16, 2014, 04:05:58 pm
Without making any promise of "when" I know that the plates and numbers are in the process of being counted and listed.  We expect the first list to be available on the Society website early in the new year together with details of how to submit orders.
In the meantime the counting and listing of both Society and general products is proceding and we would hope to offer a similar facility within the same time scales.

Alan

N Gauge Society Treasurer
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: free debt man on December 22, 2014, 10:55:32 am
A request for members who wish to apply to become the N Gauge Society Shop Manager has been posted on the Society website
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Les1952 on December 22, 2014, 09:04:14 pm
The Society Shop is only closed temporarily and it is hope to be reopened partially in January 2015.

It has come to our notice that Model Master are claiming you should buy plates from them.  The agreement between N Gauge Society and ModelMaster is still in place.

You should not buy plates or transfers from Model master

David Baverstock
NGS Chairman
TEL: 0117 9763329
And that attitude that the Society is the play thing of the few and not run for the benefit of the members as a whole, (in this case in the form that the Society's income stream is more important than helping the members obtain the goods they want at a time when the Society is unable to fulfill their requirements) is the main reason why I am not a member...

You should be supporting the commendable action of Model Masters for temporarily reopening direct sales FOR THE BENEFIT OF YOUR MEMBERS whilst the Society shop is unable fulfill their needs.

You are not as you may think 'protecting' the society, instead you are P****** off your members...

I cannot speak for anyone else, but the Society is not T***** me off (sorry, my spelling is deteriorating with age) with its rigid adherence to the exclusivity agreement, though it is inconvenient when you find yourself receiving presents that duplicate existing stock and you're looking forward to being able to change their identities.  Failure to adhere to the agreement would undermine the foundations of the society, if only a little.  Is there scope for the Society to use the suppliers as a different kind of resource, acting as agents of NGS whilst supplying the goods direct to the members in this time of need?  In the mean time, I'm building up quite a Wish List.

To be quite honest given my experiences with buying plates from Modelmaster I would say you would be at least 6 months quicker waiting for the NGS to find them and get up and running..........

Les
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Roy L S on December 27, 2014, 12:05:30 pm
You could but them directly from Modelmaster (see website) and I have done so. Whatever the contractual agreement between them and the NGS is not really my issue, if the NGS cannot supply them. As an NGS member I do not know the terms under which the exclusivity arrangement was agreed although based on the discussions at this year's AGM I would like to!

For me the problem with the NGS shop (and the reason I have gone to Modelmaster directly) has been that when I was after plates I was told that they had a significant number but couldn't tell me what they actually had in stock as at that point they hadn't been separated into individual sets (apparently they come on big sheets) or repackaged for individual sale.

Hopefully with new stock control and sales systems being developed by the NGS, once the current transition is over things will improve and NGS Shop will intuitively be the first place to go.

Roy

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: talisman56 on December 27, 2014, 12:41:43 pm
That was my main objection to using the NGS shop for Modelmaster plates - if I was after a specific set of plates, why should I give some alternatives that I don't want??
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Bob Tidbury on December 27, 2014, 12:45:42 pm
Roy L S is quite right, the plates come unpainted as an A3 sheet of etches ,Ray Evans of BH Enterprises offered to buy them  a few years ago as he used to buy
Them from the original supplier but his offer was turned down which is why he has nearly run out of nameplates and can't get any more.
Bob
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: steve836 on March 29, 2015, 11:36:52 am
According to my N Gauge Journal, the NGS Shop has reopened.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on March 29, 2015, 05:54:05 pm
Yes, the shop is up and running in what is best described as"temporary mode" but most of the items on the original stock list are available.  The easiest way to place orders is by using ngsjoin.com and follow the links.

Alan Reed
N Gauge Society Treasurer and temporary shop keeper
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: SheldonC on April 03, 2015, 12:11:56 am
That was my main objection to using the NGS shop for Modelmaster plates - if I was after a specific set of plates, why should I give some alternatives that I don't want??
Don't ask for what you cannot or will not use; if you specify only what you want, and it isn't available, you won't get anything.  Simple, really.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: zopadooper on April 03, 2015, 08:18:38 am
If you read the members section of the  Society Journal you will see that since the shop reopened members are invited to make specific requests for plates without making payment.  If the requested name is available it will then be supplied after receipt of payment.  It also says in the journal that this is a temporary measure whilst the entire stock of plates is catalogued, at which time availability lists will be published.

Alan Reed
NGS Treasurer
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Shiney Sheff on June 26, 2015, 08:13:06 pm
I also thought the shop was up and running (sort of) and did as requested on the web site, to email the chairman asking for specific name plates.

This I did on the 6th of June and also on the 20th of June, so far I have not had any response so I guess everyone must be busy sorting things or gone away on holiday?

Totally baffled now as to how I should order any name plates
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Rob H on July 06, 2015, 07:55:35 pm
Is there any news as to when the Modelmaster transfers will be available online?

Rob.
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Mirrlees on July 06, 2015, 08:00:21 pm
At this time, the answer is no.

There is a lot more work involved at the moment with the Colletts, kit composition and nameplates at the moment.

As I am leaving the  post of webmaster within the next few months I will ensure it is kept as an important topic.

Cheers

Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: MikeDunn on August 14, 2015, 07:54:04 pm
You do realise we have another thread on this  ???
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: PGN on August 14, 2015, 10:14:02 pm
You do realise we have another thread on this  ???

Nope.

Never occurred to me that a pinned thread would be pinned if there was another thread we were supposed to refer to instead ...
Title: Re: Important Notice regarding the NGS Shop
Post by: Sprintex on August 14, 2015, 10:32:57 pm
This thread was originally for notifying everyone of the temporary closure of the NGS Shop and subsequent efforts to re-establish it, that is why it was pinned at the top of the section.

The discussion over the Journal and the associated financial shenanigans is here - http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29016.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29016.0)

To avoid any further confusion this topic is now locked  :locked:


Paul