N Gauge Forum

General Category => RevolutioN Trains => Crowdfunding => Pendolino => Topic started by: woodbury22uk on August 13, 2014, 08:12:49 pm

Title: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on August 13, 2014, 08:12:49 pm
Over on RMWeb there is a discussion about the merits of a crowd funded Pendolino, and a chance to vote if you would commit to buying one. The plan would be for supporters to obtain a nine car train to current technical and detail standards for a commitment of £250. If sufficient supporters can be found they would receive their sets as a priority. Subsequent deliveries would be priced at about £100 higher.

None of it will happen without support, and financial commitment. Suggest that if you are genuinely interested in a Pendolino or two, a visit to the link below, and a read of progress over the last 24 hours would be worthwhile.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89072-n-gauge-pendolino-project/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89072-n-gauge-pendolino-project/)


I have added a poll to this topic at 11am on 14 August 2014. If you have voted in the RMWeb please do not vote on the NGF poll except to indicate that you voted on RMWeb.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on August 14, 2014, 08:09:15 am
Mike,

Is it worth modifying your post and putting a poll up on this topic too, similar to the one on RMWEB so that people, who refuse to go on there, can put there vote on here? Obviously with a note saying don't vote on here if you already have over there!

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bealman on August 14, 2014, 08:31:09 am
Thank you. This is the forum devoted to N.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on August 14, 2014, 08:40:38 am
Why would anyone refuse to go to RMWeb?  ???

If you prefer the NGF (and who wouldn't) that is fair enough but there is no point in avoiding a site that hosts a useful resource just on principle.

Anyway, Dave Jones mostly uses RMWeb and since the project would theoretically be under his control, it makes sense for the poll to be where he can see it.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: kirky on August 14, 2014, 08:58:56 am
Why would anyone refuse to go to RMWeb?  ???
I wouldn't refuse but....
When NGF was in its infancy, RMWeb went titsup and I 'lost' my membership. As a result I ended up joining NGF. For me, I struggle to keep up with one forum so I ended up staying with NGF, and I have to say I do like the laid back attitude on NGF!

I did eventually rejoin, and I have voted in the pendo poll. However, I can fully understand why people would not wish to join RMWeb just to vote.
Cheers
Kirky
Title: What is the bickering about this Rm Forum
Post by: Bob Tidbury on August 14, 2014, 09:00:28 am
I couldn't possibly afford a £250 Pendolino anyway, but I don't understand why David Jones hasn't put a post on a forum which is dedicated to N Gauge if he is bringing out a NEW model in N Gauge,I also don't know anything about the animosity between this other Forum Rm or whatever it's called and our Forum,I must admit I left my local club because the Subs went up quite a lot and the club was mainly interested in modelling American Railroads but I still talk to the club members and have even invited the round to my shed whenever they want to.Perhaps someone can tell me what the problem between the two forums is ,In my honest opinion LIFE is to short to keep on bickering about silly things.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Geoff on August 14, 2014, 09:03:33 am
Why would anyone refuse to go to RMWeb?  ???

If you prefer the NGF (and who wouldn't) that is fair enough but there is no point in avoiding a site that hosts a useful resource just on principle.

Anyway, Dave Jones mostly uses RMWeb and since the project would theoretically be under his control, it makes sense for the poll to be where he can see it.

Maybe you never read my last post on the said thread, I am a bit of a stickler, and cannot abide with the calling of virtually the same gauge in a post and thought this is not the place for me, does not stop me from buying there magazine, to many gauges on that forum for my liking I might get drawn into another gauge when I am having fun with N Gauge.

 :NGF:
Title: Re: What is the bickering about this Rm Forum
Post by: Roy L S on August 14, 2014, 09:09:10 am
I couldn't possibly afford a £250 Pendolino anyway, but I don't understand why David Jones hasn't put a post on a forum which is dedicated to N Gauge if he is bringing out a NEW model in N Gauge,I

Hi Bob

To be fair to Dave, he has not said he will be producing it as part of his own planned model portfolio.

What he has done is provided a quote for 1000 units and said it that should there be sufficient support and someone prepared to do the legwork to start and run a "Kickstarter" project to try to "Crowd fund" it, he could facilitate production for them.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on August 14, 2014, 09:19:10 am
Hello

The N Gauge Society ran an online survey re. a Pendolino in 2003.

The results are still available at https://web.archive.org/web/20030617031758/http://ngaugesociety.com/survey/surveyresults.htm (https://web.archive.org/web/20030617031758/http://ngaugesociety.com/survey/surveyresults.htm)

Remember the prices are from 11 years ago!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on August 14, 2014, 09:23:10 am
Wow, how things have changed!  Thanks for sharing that Michael.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Hunslet 707 on August 14, 2014, 10:34:43 am
Hello

The N Gauge Society ran an online survey re. a Pendolino in 2003.

The results are still available at [url]https://web.archive.org/web/20030617031758/http://ngaugesociety.com/survey/surveyresults.htm[/url] ([url]https://web.archive.org/web/20030617031758/http://ngaugesociety.com/survey/surveyresults.htm[/url])

Remember the prices are from 11 years ago!

Best regards
Michael


So 11 years ago there were 196 people interested (via the NGS) in a pendolino (regardless of set length) and the price then (factoring in inflation) would equate to £161 now for a 5 car set. Sounds good, although that is only 1/5 of the number required (maybe 2/5 if counting multiple purchases) add maybe another 1/5 for the rise in N gauge modern modellers due to the availablility of better quality models brings us to the 3/5 area...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Agrippa on August 14, 2014, 10:44:33 am
Re Bob Tidbury's post why all the argy bargy about RMWeb, it's just another forum
about model trains, what's the prob?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on August 14, 2014, 10:47:59 am
Mike,

Is it worth modifying your post and putting a poll up on this topic too, similar to the one on RMWEB so that people, who refuse to go on there, can put there vote on here? Obviously with a note saying don't vote on here if you already have over there!

Alistair

Alistair

Thanks for the suggestion. However, what about the people on all the other N groups, and forums who will claim they won't touch this or that forum because of some past experience? :) :) The poll on RMWeb is the initiative of the members there, facilitated by Dave Jones who provided a quote for a crowd funded model. I will put the identical poll on here but from what I have read over the past 12 hours on here....................... :) :) :) :)

Poll now created.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on August 14, 2014, 11:12:07 am
Re Bob Tidbury's post why all the argy bargy about RMWeb, it's just another forum
about model trains, what's the prob?

There is no "argy bargy" as you incorrectly put it, merely that some people choose not to go there for their own reasons which is their prerogative :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 14, 2014, 11:18:32 am
There is no "argy bargy" as you incorrectly put it, merely that some people choose not to go there for their own reasons which is their prerogative :thumbsup:

Paul

That is fine, but why the need to make such a fuss about it (eg as you have done)? That is what creates the unpleasantness. 

Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 14, 2014, 11:23:44 am
Thanks for creating the poll on here - please don't vote in the NGF's poll and RMweb's poll as we don't want to falsify the results (tempting though it is!).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on August 14, 2014, 11:29:38 am
I have not made a fuss, I have mentioned that comments made to me from third parties indicate they do not frequent RMweb. It's a perfectly valid point that a large chunk of audience and potential buyers may be missed out by not including other forums in the research process which may or may not affect the outcome. A better way would have been to put a poll on an independent site and link to it from RMweb, NGF, Model Rail Forum, and any other discussion site with a sizeable N gauge contingent :)

Now can we please stop the inter-forum stirring and get back to the topic of an N Gauge Pendolino?


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Caz on August 14, 2014, 11:35:22 am
Perhaps the poll on here should be amended with a third choice, "Have you already voted in another poll" or similar to make people stop and think before voting.   ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on August 14, 2014, 11:40:46 am
Perhaps the poll on here should be amended with a third choice, "Have you already voted in another poll" or similar to make people stop and think before voting.   ;)

Good suggestion Caz. Third option added.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on August 14, 2014, 11:48:09 am
As with most things in life, we all have our own opinions for various reasons, which also includes forums by the look of it.  :)

It is best for all of us to cease the NGF/RMweb comparisons and stay on the subject of this thread.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NeMo on August 14, 2014, 12:04:53 pm
Is it worth opining that I wouldn't buy a Pendolino, but would buy other AC (or DC) electrics? Surely a 9-coach Pendolino demands a very big layout, and alas, I don't have one. But novel AC or DC locomotives -- oh, how I'd love a Woodhead* electric of some sort -- can be fun impulse purchases for those who simply like collecting a variety of interesting trains.

My point is that people are saying we have to vote for a Pendolino if we want AC electrics down the line. If I was to vote for the Pendolino, then I'd be telling DJM I'd buy something I know I wouldn't.

Cheers, NeMo

*Yes, I know there used to be MSL kits for them. But not sold anymore, and they don't seem like good kits for beginners!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on August 14, 2014, 12:10:56 pm

My point is that people are saying we have to vote for a Pendolino if we want AC electrics down the line. If I was not vote for the Pendolino, then I'd be telling DJM I'd buy something I know I wouldn't.

Cheers, NeMo

*Yes, I know there used to be MSL kits for them. But not sold anymore, and they don't seem like good kits for beginners!

NeMo. The poll is purely about the Pendolino. Just say "no" if you do not want one. The Pendolino poll on RMWeb came out of a discussion about Farish electric traction but should be viewed as standalone on here.
Title: Re: What is the bickering about this Rm Forum
Post by: PaulCheffus on August 14, 2014, 12:30:57 pm
I couldn't possibly afford a £250 Pendolino anyway, but I don't understand why David Jones hasn't put a post on a forum which is dedicated to N Gauge if he is bringing out a NEW model in N Gauge,I also don't know anything about the animosity between this other Forum Rm or whatever it's called and our Forum,I must admit I left my local club because the Subs went up quite a lot and the club was mainly interested in modelling American Railroads but I still talk to the club members and have even invited the round to my shed whenever they want to.Perhaps someone can tell me what the problem between the two forums is ,In my honest opinion LIFE is to short to keep on bickering about silly things.

Hi

Its quite straight forward the discussion was started on RMWeb and so naturally the poll and everything else is on there. You don't want to be splitting the poll over several forums and diluting the results. So I'll repeat what others have said if you want one go and vote on RMWeb.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on August 14, 2014, 12:34:14 pm
I think that 1000 9-car pendolinos at £250 available through shops would sell like hot cakes and sell out within 6-12 months. I don't think that there is much of a chance of finding 1000 pledges through kickstarter because it won't reach the same audience as being in the shop window and people will be worried about the (real) risk of it not appearing. However, I have registered my interest and would stick the cash out for one.

Perhaps another option is for Hornby/Arnold to produce it after their Belle (if it appears) as, I presume, they have already done a lot of the leg work for their big-scale version.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on August 14, 2014, 12:38:16 pm
oh, how I'd love a Woodhead* electric of some sort -- can be fun impulse purchases for those who simply like collecting a variety of interesting trains.
*Yes, I know there used to be MSL kits for them. But not sold anymore, and they don't seem like good kits for beginners!

Hi

What you need is the Masterclass Models kit as it was a one piece resin casting but unfortunately they arnt available anymore either.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NeMo on August 14, 2014, 12:51:51 pm
NeMo. The poll is purely about the Pendolino. Just say "no" if you do not want one. The Pendolino poll on RMWeb came out of a discussion about Farish electric traction but should be viewed as standalone on here.

Indeed. But over on the DJM thread elsewhere on this forum, the following statement has been made:

If you want one, vote yes. If you don't need one but it could be shoehorned into your era/layout, vote yes. If you desperately want to see AC Electric traction grow in N, vote yes. But swallow your "pride" and do it on RMWeb, because if you don't, you certainly ARE cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Anyone care to justify this for me? Why, if I vote no to a Pendolino, which I don't want, am I voting against further AC locomotives, which I would like to buy.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on August 14, 2014, 12:54:19 pm
Perhaps another option is for Hornby/Arnold to produce it after their Belle (if it appears) as, I presume, they have already done a lot of the leg work for their big-scale version.

That is one possibility, sadly you may be overestimating the amount of effort saved. While they will have all the dimensions from the 00 model, that is only a starting point. You cannot simply shrink the CADs as you need to take into account a lot of factors such as material thickness, space for motors and items such as couplings which are scale-specific. Also, the largest part of the R&D costs is the tooling which would of course have to be new.

So while a Hornby/Arnold Pendolino would be welcome, the existing 00 model does not give as much of a headstart as it might appear at first glance.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on August 14, 2014, 12:59:09 pm
NeMo. The poll is purely about the Pendolino. Just say "no" if you do not want one. The Pendolino poll on RMWeb came out of a discussion about Farish electric traction but should be viewed as standalone on here.

Indeed. But over on the DJM thread elsewhere on this forum, the following statement has been made:

If you want one, vote yes. If you don't need one but it could be shoehorned into your era/layout, vote yes. If you desperately want to see AC Electric traction grow in N, vote yes. But swallow your "pride" and do it on RMWeb, because if you don't, you certainly ARE cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Anyone care to justify this for me? Why, if I vote no to a Pendolino, which I don't want, am I voting against further AC locomotives, which I would like to buy.

Cheers, NeMo

The key word is desperately. If you think it would be just nice to have AC electrics, then vote no. If you desperately want and need an upsurge in AC electric trains, vote yes. Otherwise, the chance won't come along again anytime soon, I'd suggest.

You can bet Farish and Dapol will be looking at this RMWeb Poll and thread. If they see a demand for the Pendelino, they might just be interested in producing other AC electrics themselves. At the moment, from what I can see, they are reluctant to, based on the 86 experience.

Ditto third rail EMUs, based on the southern unit reportedly not selling as well as they'd hoped.

That's the way I'd look at it. But it's everyone's choice.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: SD35 on August 14, 2014, 01:01:31 pm

Anyone care to justify this for me? Why, if I vote no to a Pendolino, which I don't want, am I voting against further AC locomotives, which I would like to buy.

Cheers, NeMo

I was just thinking the same.  Despite a lack of interest in the 390 I'd happily buy half a dozen 85s and half a dozen 87s or 90s made to the same standard as the Dapol 86 to compliment my fleet of those.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on August 14, 2014, 01:08:50 pm
You can bet Farish and Dapol will be looking at this RMWeb Poll and thread. If they see a demand for the Pendelino, they might just be interested in producing other AC electrics themselves. At the moment, from what I can see, they are reluctant to, based on the 86 experience.

Ditto third rail EMUs, based on the southern unit reportedly not selling as well as they'd hoped.

Apparently both the 4-CEP and Desiro have not sold as well as Bachmann had hoped in N gauge. Obviously a Pendolino would provide the obvious express to accompany the Desiros. It may have been on another thread that someone commented that the large, iconic express trains are the ones that tend to capture the imagination and inspire layouts built around them. N gauge is well suited to this as we can model full-length trains in a quarter the area required in 00.

Nice as the Desiro is, it is only a part of the picture.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ian Morton on August 14, 2014, 02:10:42 pm
I think that 1000 9-car pendolinos at £250 available through shops would sell like hot cakes and sell out within 6-12 months. I don't think that there is much of a chance of finding 1000 pledges through kickstarter because it won't reach the same audience as being in the shop window and people will be worried about the (real) risk of it not appearing. However, I have registered my interest and would stick the cash out for one.

Perhaps another option is for Hornby/Arnold to produce it after their Belle (if it appears) as, I presume, they have already done a lot of the leg work for their big-scale version.

They wouldn't be in the shops at that price. That is the cost (per set) of getting the tooling and a run of 1000 without any mark-up for retailers, development costs or packaging.

The deal is that after the original run the tooling becomes DJM's property and Dave can run extra sets as and when he wants with a likely retail of £350.

Currently it is a kite-flying exercise to see what sort of interest there is. If it looks like it might garner support then someone will have to run the Kickstarter campaign - having first publicised that it is coming in the various magazines, societies and forums. Kickstarter projects have a very limited time in which to reach their target so the project and closing date will need lots of advance publicity.

If the Kickstarter doesn't reach the target then no-one pays anything (other than any costs the organiser has incurred in their publicity drive). If it does then you have to stump up the £250 (or multiples of £250 if you have pledged for more than one set) and wait.

Dave says that he can produce the models - and has a great incentive to do so.

If you don't want to buy it unseen, can't afford it or don't need it then move on. If, on the other hand, you are willing to buy unseen, can afford it and do want it then speak up.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Roy L S on August 14, 2014, 02:28:06 pm
Is it worth opining that I wouldn't buy a Pendolino, but would buy other AC (or DC) electrics? Surely a 9-coach Pendolino demands a very big layout, and alas, I don't have one. But novel AC or DC locomotives -- oh, how I'd love a Woodhead* electric of some sort -- can be fun impulse purchases for those who simply like collecting a variety of interesting trains.

My point is that people are saying we have to vote for a Pendolino if we want AC electrics down the line. If I was to vote for the Pendolino, then I'd be telling DJM I'd buy something I know I wouldn't.

Cheers, NeMo

*Yes, I know there used to be MSL kits for them. But not sold anymore, and they don't seem like good kits for beginners!

Re: a 76, I'd agree, probably a "Rule 1" purchase for a reasonable number of people I'd guess.

Re: voting for or against the Pendolino, I totally agree with Nemo, however I also think it needs to be made VERY clear. It is not DJM you would be telling and misleading. He will simply be a supplier if demand is there and "Kickstarter" project manages to become fully subscribed. It would instead be some poor s*d (possibly even a member of this Forum) who will, based on misleading information put a lot of time and graft into a "Kickstarter" project that will not as a consequence reach the required level of pledges when firm commitments are asked for.

So to be fair to that person (if anyone actually takes it on) my take is that this is about the Pendolino *NOT* AC electrics in general. If you want a Pendolino say "yes" if you do not want a Pendolino say "no".

If you want to garner support for another AC electric start a new poll.

Roy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NeMo on August 14, 2014, 02:30:15 pm
Apparently both the 4-CEP and Desiro have not sold as well as Bachmann had hoped in N gauge.
So perhaps the more/most constructive thing to do is for everyone go out and buy the Farish Desiro and/or the 4CEP, or for that matter the Dapol 86. In other words: put your money where your mouth is, right now instead of ticking a box on a web page.

If the two manufacturers see people buying electrics, and in volume, then they'll presumably be more enthusiastic about making more of them.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on August 14, 2014, 02:48:08 pm
Considering the popularity of my SWT Class 450 vinyls, I'm surprised that the 350 has not been a massive hit.

Perhaps it's the choice of RTR electric traction available, rather than electric traction per se that is the problem. Both the 350 and unrefurbished CEP are quite limited in their geographical scopes or timeframes.

Would, say a 4-CIG or 319 Thameslink have been more popular sellers? Certainly the livery choices would be greater.

I still think there is a bright future for overhead electrics and will continue to support them with new products.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on August 14, 2014, 10:04:17 pm
I'd take a pendolino set for sure, it would be interesting to see if enough interest can be gathered, what percentage of n gauge modellers (modern image) would get to know about it.... you'd have to aggressively market it.... and then put their monel where their collective mouth is and back it.

I've done a couple of mountain bike related kickstarter funds before and it's fascinating watching a product come together, starting with concept to test examples to the final product.   Even better is to see it then start to sell in great numbers knowing you were part of getting it into the shops and seeing someone using one on the trails
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on August 14, 2014, 10:29:12 pm
Indeed in cycling circles it's a very common way to fund a project, never seen ken for £250k I'll admit.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on August 14, 2014, 10:32:12 pm
So perhaps the more/most constructive thing to do is for everyone go out and buy the Farish Desiro and/or the 4CEP, or for that matter the Dapol 86. In other words: put your money where your mouth is, right now instead of ticking a box on a web page.

Cheers, NeMo

Hi NeMo,

Good point!   

Personally I'm trying my best....I've bought about four or five 86s, two or three 87s, half a dozen 90s, Two 350s, a CJM 92 and a kit of an AM4.  Oh, and a Lima 85(?). I'd better finish the damn OHLE layout so I can actually run some!!!

I've got four 73s too - don't know if they count, they're sort of electric.   Surely I deserve a Pendo for Christmas.... and while you're at (Santa) a 323.   :angel:

BTW, following your nuclear layout build  with great interest....!

Cheers   Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 15, 2014, 12:58:09 pm
The Lima one is an 86 (ish)

Its N Gauge did did a class 85 shortly before its proprietor was banged up so there aren't many around.

The pendolino has been done in 3D print, but David seems not have gotten around to reworking it as part of his Modern Image Models business.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on August 15, 2014, 01:12:31 pm
He posted on the forum which must not be named to say that he was fairly unlikely to do so as well.

A bit of a shame that he did something which was a great effort, but having progressed with MIM is (perhaps understandably) rather unwilling to release something which is merely a 'great effort'.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on August 15, 2014, 02:52:27 pm
and a kit of an AM4.

Hi

Whos kit is it? I have a set of etched sides for one but nothing for the cabs.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on August 15, 2014, 03:24:54 pm
and a kit of an AM4.
Whos kit is it? I have a set of etched sides for one but nothing for the cabs.
Cheers
Paul

It was by "Amsies Models" as I recall.  My kit is the opposite of yours - it's just a pair of ends (in resin) and vinyls to apply to Mk1 coaches.  I don't think he does them any more.   The ends would be a useful 3D print if anyone was motivated to do one!

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 15, 2014, 03:25:26 pm
Hello folks

To keep you up to date - here is a duplicate of a post from Ben A on t'other place.

I would strongly urge anyone interested in an N gauge Pendolino to consider expressing their interest either on the poll here or on RMweb: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89072-n-gauge-pendolino-project/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89072-n-gauge-pendolino-project/)

Cheers, Mike

"Hello all,
 
I think it's looking likely that Mike Hale and I are going to give this a try. If nothing comes of it then no one loses anything after all, though it would confirm that there really is a lack of drive/interest/commitment to modern OHLE models in British N.
 
A couple of provisos:
 
1) it won't happen until we've seen something (OO or N) produced by DJM.
2) it'll be produced in a factory with a proven track record in N.
3) the tooling won't be used by any other party for a reasonable period after first production.
4) the individual vehicle produced will never be available again - at least not from this tooling.
 
More details about safeguards, spec, timescales, milestones and production details will be given nearer the time.
 
We'll also need some time to start getting a publicity plan organised so I anticipate this going live in autumn. Please keep a lookout and tell other enthusiasts/collectors/club members to keep an eye out here, elsewhere and in the press.
 
We have some ideas to incentivise people to sing up - loyalty bonuses, milestones etc - and there'll be a lot more information about what exactly is on offer nearer the time.  One example: a vote so those who support the model decide democratically the identity of the actual unit depicted.
 
The internet has created lots of new possibilities for groups of like-minded enthusiasts, and this is a real chance to do something different, and to get a model of one of the most iconic trains of this generation that is unlikely to be produced by the mainstream manufacturers.
 
Of course, if Hornby announce one in the meantime then the Kickstarter project can be abandoned with no cash taken but given the time it's taken to get the Brighton Belle to market (over 18 months so far) and the likely cost, I think a 9-car Pendolino for £250 is going to be hard to beat...
 
Cheers

Ben A."
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on August 15, 2014, 04:34:34 pm
Splendid, chaps, splendid :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on August 15, 2014, 05:34:10 pm

It was by "Amsies Models" as I recall.  My kit is the opposite of yours - it's just a pair of ends (in resin) and vinyls to apply to Mk1 coaches.  I don't think he does them any more.   The ends would be a useful 3D print if anyone was motivated to do one!

Cheers  Jon  :)

Hi

I thought it might have been. I tried to get a pair when he was selling them without success.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MikeDunn on August 15, 2014, 08:08:31 pm
everyone go out and buy the Farish Desiro and/or the 4CEP, or for that matter the Dapol 86.
Er - no.   :thumbsdown:

Perhaps you mean "everyone who is interested in sparkies" ... but that is not what you wrote ...

Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NeMo on August 15, 2014, 08:56:44 pm
everyone go out and buy the Farish Desiro and/or the 4CEP, or for that matter the Dapol 86.
Er - no.   :thumbsdown:
Perhaps you mean "everyone who is interested in sparkies" ... but that is not what you wrote ...
Indeed Mike, but in context with the sentences before and after, it was surely pretty obvious what I meant! And would anyone wanting kettles instead of sparkies be reading a thread about Pendolinos...?  :hmmm:

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on August 16, 2014, 03:59:12 pm
Hi guys,

Looks like there will be a kick starter project coming around October/November time.

It is looking like we will get 4 different running numbers with each number getting 250 - 9 car sets. All of the sets will be powered for this run. The expected price would be £250 per set.

If you order multiples you would get different numbers as long as you don't order 5. Of course you can order more than 5 but one of them would be a repeated number!

After a set amount of time the tooling would pass on to DJM. The initial 4 numbers wouldn't be run again, giving us a true limited edition. With a possibility of a dummy one afterwards if Dave decides to do this. There would be a significant increase to the price at this point.

The model will not be produced until there has been a model released (in either 00 or N) from Dave, so that the quality of the product can be looked at.

The initial run could be increased if we were to get somewhere close to the golden figure! Everyone who backs this product for the £250 would be guaranteed to receive one of the initial batch.

It will be run by Ben Ando and Mike Hale who have done this type of project within the N Gauge Society with their wagon projects.

We need to get this spread as far and as wide as possible so that we can get the Pendolino's that we all want!

If there are any questions put them in this topic and I'm sure answers will be forthcoming as soon as they are known.

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on August 16, 2014, 04:30:47 pm
Hi guys,

Looks like there will be a kick starter project coming around October/November time.

It is looking like we will get 4 different running numbers with each number getting 250 - 9 car sets. All of the sets will be powered for this run. The expected price would be £250 per set.

If you order multiples you would get different numbers as long as you don't order 5. Of course you can order more than 5 but one of them would be a repeated number!

After a set amount of time the tooling would pass on to DJM. The initial 4 numbers wouldn't be run again, giving us a true limited edition. With a possibility of a dummy one afterwards if Dave decides to do this. There would be a significant increase to the price at this point.

The model will not be produced until there has been a model released (in either 00 or N) from Dave, so that the quality of the product can be looked at.

The initial run could be increased if we were to get somewhere close to the golden figure! Everyone who backs this product for the £250 would be guaranteed to receive one of the initial batch.

It will be run by Ben Ando and Mike Hale who have done this type of project within the N Gauge Society with their wagon projects.

We need to get this spread as far and as wide as possible so that we can get the Pendolino's that we all want!

If there are any questions put them in this topic and I'm sure answers will be forthcoming as soon as they are known.

Alistair

I will be backing this. I have no need for one, and I won't run it on my layout but I'd like to support this to hopefully further the growth of N-Gauge.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on August 16, 2014, 06:33:11 pm
It's been said before but seriously, anyone swithering about this, I emplore you to go over to the other side and have a read of the thread that is on there regarding the pendolino. There is some good discussion going on, some input from DJM, who has discussed at length with the chaps intending to take the Kickstarter on.

There is much more information on that thread, please at least have a look. This is good for N, so if you want a Pendelino, or are in two minds, go and give it a read.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89072-n-gauge-pendolino-project/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89072-n-gauge-pendolino-project/)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Caz on August 16, 2014, 10:18:39 pm
As has been said before, why wasn't this aired on the only forum dedicated to N gauge instead of a commercially backed multi-forum, I'm sure the result would have been more representative.   :veryangry:   :censored:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on August 16, 2014, 10:41:17 pm
Because the question was asked on RMWeb which is where Dave normally posts so the subsequent discussion took place there.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on August 16, 2014, 10:55:23 pm
Caz,

The reason why it was aired on RMWeb is that it was originally part of another topic and a new discussion was started on the advice of some of the other members so that it was all put in to one place.

(This bits a general statement)

People might get 'put out' that it appeared on there first but does it matter. We have to accept it (no matter how much some people don't want to) that RMWeb is the biggest railway modelling forum, and is the place where Dave Jones has decided to put his info out on there, as he did when he was at Dapol. (Long before it went commercial!)

It has been posted across a few different places to try and get the best coverage to give it it's best chance for success.

At the end of the day does it matter where it was started? NO, what matters is getting the model out there.

If there are some people who don't like the way RMWeb is run or the fact that that it is 'commercial' then so be it. You aren't being forced to go on there. Some of us who do go on there are trying to direct you to the exact page, so you don't even have to 'wade through' all of the other pages to read what the plan is.

As much as I like this forum, RMWeb is the better place to go to get the most up-to date news and information. It may be hard for some people to hear but it's true.

So can we stop all of this slagging off the other forums and just get on with modelling and having a go at bringing a model off the back-burner and put it straight on to the fire and get it out there. After all we are all fighting for the same things does it matter where we are fighting from?

Regards

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 16, 2014, 11:31:23 pm
As has been said before, why wasn't this aired on the only forum dedicated to N gauge instead of a commercially backed multi-forum, I'm sure the result would have been more representative.   :veryangry:   :censored:

Caz

I've cross-posted the points that Ben and I had agreed at that point - things are progressing quickly with our thinking and Ali has posted a summary of the latest.

The original idea was a result of a discussion about other AC electrics and was spun out of that discussion so it was only natural for the discussion to evolve on RMweb.

There is no attempt to favour one site or the other and we'll continue to answer questions on here, RMweb and any other media!  Ben and I will be available at TINGS to discuss the project and answer questions.

We are currently working on nailing down the details of the project, working up a project plan and initial timelines for the project and we will publish details as soon as we have agreed them.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on August 16, 2014, 11:48:07 pm
Come on everyone, let's calm down and keep the spirit of the forum a good one. :stop:

Please vote here or on the relevant thread on RMweb if you feel that you wish to help the project.


Thread locked as no more input is needed right now.   :locked:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on August 17, 2014, 01:49:56 pm
Thread unlocked due to Mike wanting to comment about the project. :thumbsup:

No more negative RMweb comments from here thank you.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NTrain on August 18, 2014, 10:24:59 am
Just reviewing progress on this project. Mike and Ben are heavily involved in the process now and both have a track record with producing NGS kits and models.

Let us look at the project in perspective. We are being asked to support the development of a 'much wanted' model.

Dapol announced one and lots of people were saying 'can't wait', and a huge outburst at the delays in getting it to market. They have now dropped the plan, I believe.

If the Pendolino was supplied through the normal retail channel, you would expect to have to pay about £350 for the nine car set. Remember, everyone needs to make profit.

We have the opportunity, to help fund a new project and get a full nine car set for just £250. Once the initial run is complete, no-one will get them at that price again.

If you have no interest in this train or the project, then that is fine.

However, if it is a 'must have' model, a collectable to sit on a shelf, a rule 1 purchase, or plain profit making speculation then please consider voting.

I have no involvement in the project, but am following the funding concept closely to see if it might apply for future N-Train releases. There have already been models released using Kickstarter.

If the funding concept works, we may get future projects for other models.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on August 18, 2014, 12:21:55 pm

Hello all,

I did wonder why this thread got locked!  Ali and Bob have neatly summarised above where we are with a lot of this.

If you don't want to check out the thread on RM web then no probs  - Mike and I will do our best to answer all questions here too!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on August 18, 2014, 03:30:27 pm
I have voted 'yes' to this on the RMWeb poll so have not voted here. Would love to see it sashaying through the curves on my layout :)

 :thankyousign: all for the updates!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on August 18, 2014, 03:34:37 pm
I have voted 'yes' to this on the RMWeb poll so have not voted here. Would love to see it sashaying through the curves on my layout :)

Just for you Pengi - here is some Pendo Sashaying through curves.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcGnZS02-fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcGnZS02-fs)

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on August 18, 2014, 04:53:50 pm
Just for you Pengi - here is some Pendo Sashaying through curves.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcGnZS02-fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcGnZS02-fs)

Cheers  Jon  :)

Wow!  Sounded amazing!!!!  I definitely need one in NSE livery. :-*
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Caz on August 18, 2014, 07:00:08 pm
Just dreaming,  :angel:  they actually electrify the WR before the Pendolino is old hat and they appear in FGW Dynamic Lines livery, they would look really fantastic and then I'd have one.   :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on August 18, 2014, 08:15:02 pm
Hi, question for those in the know: what are the risks involved in this project? If £250 is handed over, is the pendolino 100% guaranteed to drop through my letter box in a couple of years from now? What about if the prices of components go up, DJ models goes under, or other unspecified mishap? Could we all end up with nothing.  :'(

I want it so am definitely after one. I also agree with what Ben (I think) said on RMWeb that the resale value would be at least as high as the initial price so am tempted to get another one to help the project out, but if there is a real risk of it not working then I can't afford to lose £500 (I can't afford to lose £250, but I'm willing to take a punt on that). Maybe I'll order one initially and then if it's tantalisingly close to the 1000 unit mark wade in with another one. I also don't want to rob people of the opportunity of getting their own if it turns out that the 1000 mark is, in fact, easily reached.

Cheers,

Brooksy

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Roy L S on August 18, 2014, 08:57:23 pm
Hi, question for those in the know: what are the risks involved in this project? If £250 is handed over, is the pendolino 100% guaranteed to drop through my letter box in a couple of years from now? What about if the prices of components go up, DJ models goes under, or other unspecified mishap? Could we all end up with nothing.  :'(

I want it so am definitely after one. I also agree with what Ben (I think) said on RMWeb that the resale value would be at least as high as the initial price so am tempted to get another one to help the project out, but if there is a real risk of it not working then I can't afford to lose £500 (I can't afford to lose £250, but I'm willing to take a punt on that). Maybe I'll order one initially and then if it's tantalisingly close to the 1000 unit mark wade in with another one. I also don't want to rob people of the opportunity of getting their own if it turns out that the 1000 mark is, in fact, easily reached.

Cheers,

Brooksy

I do not think that Ben and Mike have revealed the exact detail just yet, but first thing to say is that you only part with your cash if the funding target (number of pledges required) is met.

Then, as I understand it funds will be held in a "trust" account for "backers" and agreed tranches paid out only as various "milestones" in the project are achieved.

I am sure others will be able to provide more detail, but this is my understanding of the general idea.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 18, 2014, 09:06:16 pm
Ben and I are still working through all the details, but roughly:

- no money changes hands unless the funding requirement is met
- the funding requirement will be based on a contract with DJ Models (Dave Jones will assess what contingencies he needs to build in for his contract with his manufacturer, as will Ben and I from our side)
- if the project meets its funding targets then the pledges will be charged to people's cards
- the money collected will be held in a bank account specifically for this project with Ben and I as signatories (and requiring both of us to authorise any payments)
- Ben and I will authorise staged payments to DJM as the project progresses with pre-agreed conditions and milestones

If it is any re-assurance I am a tight northerner who hates spending my or other people's money!  Ben and I have experience of managing these sorts of projects as does Dave. So I won't lie and say that there is no risk, but just that we will do all that is possible to manage and control that risk.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on August 18, 2014, 09:13:26 pm
Just dreaming,  :angel:  they actually electrify the WR before the Pendolino is old hat and they appear in FGW Dynamic Lines livery, they would look really fantastic and then I'd have one.   :)


Yes - it looks gorgeous in FGW  :heart2:

FGW Pendolino

(http://i38.tinypic.com/1oq7wn.jpg)

SWT Pendolino

(http://i34.tinypic.com/2qcmqdy.jpg)

NSE Pendolino (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/13771-pendolino2nsejpg/)

First Barbie Pendolino (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_09_2012/post-6899-0-10231300-1347823106_thumb.jpg)

LMS Pendolino (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/1298407116/med_gallery_8020_705_462136.jpg)

BR Pendolino (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_09_2012/post-6899-0-87162700-1347823112_thumb.jpg)

East Coast Pendolino (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/1281479661/med_gallery_6731_93_80356.jpg)

Inter City Pendolino  (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_09_2012/post-6899-0-46250800-1347823102_thumb.jpg)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 18, 2014, 09:23:58 pm
PS one thing I should have added is that Kickstarter's terms of use state that if the project fails then the project co-ordinators should refund backers, though understandably Kickstarter does not guarantee that.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on August 18, 2014, 10:42:44 pm
I didn't think any money even exchanged hands if you don't hit the total. I've never heard of anyone losing money on an unsuccessful bid...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on August 19, 2014, 06:42:39 am
A key thing for me is getting the contours correct on the front of the Pendolino. I have read that they are quite complex - how confident are you that you will be able to achieve the iconic Pendolino look?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on August 19, 2014, 08:16:38 am
In my experience a good Kickstarter project once funded has regular (at least monthly, if not more) updates to give confidence to the backers.

Even an update saying "no progress" is better than silence.

As the funds raised will be released to DJM in stages would it be appropriate for this project to publish regular financial accounts to backers?

Is £250,000 enough to cover the project and Kickstarter's (or whoever's) fees?

Hopefully, there will be more interest in this than the Australian Garrett that was a Kickstarter project https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1560185090/n-scale-nswgr-ad60-garratt-locomotive (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1560185090/n-scale-nswgr-ad60-garratt-locomotive)

Good luck guys, I've added my yes vote to this poll!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on August 19, 2014, 09:01:23 am
I agree regular updates to subscribers are essential for a good Kicksarter project but don't overdo it!

Recently, I subscribed to a Kickstarter to fund a movie adaptation of HP Lovecraft's Dreamland stories. Every day, I was bombarded with two or three mails promoting the project and repeating the same releases that I had to unsubscribe for the sake of my sanity!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MikeDunn on August 19, 2014, 09:18:47 am
Recently, I subscribed to a Kickstarter to fund a movie adaptation of HP Lovecraft's Dreamland stories.
Hadn't heard about this !

Can't say I look forwards to it ... I can imagine they'll bugger it up like 99% of book adaptions (LOTR being an exception) ...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Roy L S on August 19, 2014, 09:22:38 am
I didn't think any money even exchanged hands if you don't hit the total. I've never heard of anyone losing money on an unsuccessful bid...

Yes, funds get paid over once the total required is reached, all held in what is effectively a "trust" account on behalf of the backers.

Then the design, tooling, EPs etc will need to be funded, hence the stage payments. It is highly unlikely (I think) that any manufacturer would risk that kind of financial outlay (£250k) on a "kickstarter" and not expect a penny to be paid to them until delivery.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 19, 2014, 10:05:18 am
A key thing for me is getting the contours correct on the front of the Pendolino. I have read that they are quite complex - how confident are you that you will be able to achieve the iconic Pendolino look?

Very confident (due to the information we have available).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on August 20, 2014, 09:45:17 am
I didn't think any money even exchanged hands if you don't hit the total. I've never heard of anyone losing money on an unsuccessful bid...

Yes, funds get paid over once the total required is reached, all held in what is effectively a "trust" account on behalf of the backers.

Then the design, tooling, EPs etc will need to be funded, hence the stage payments. It is highly unlikely (I think) that any manufacturer would risk that kind of financial outlay (£250k) on a "kickstarter" and not expect a penny to be paid to them until delivery.

Regards

Roy

My point was in response to Mike saying they had to refund people if the project failed, I was thinking that to mean "didn't reach the target", ie there'd be no refunds because no money had been taken, but on reflection assume he meant if it flounders a year down the line.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on August 20, 2014, 10:07:36 am
My point was in response to Mike saying they had to refund people if the project failed, I was thinking that to mean "didn't reach the target", ie there'd be no refunds because no money had been taken, but on reflection assume he meant if it flounders a year down the line.

Indeed. My point is: what if project achieves 1000 pledges, money is taken, held in trust, etc. and then it all goes wrong before the model is finished and half the money has already been used? Do we get the remainder of the money back?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on August 20, 2014, 10:15:50 am
I imagine that's one of the big questions - there needs to be enough contingency in the budget to allow for possible increases in price etc. I've no idea on the specific development costs, but agree that if it's going to cost £250k in today's money, then there probably needs to be a small overspend budget, rather than taking £250,000.00 and not a penny more, and crossing ones fingers that that's sufficient!

I'm sure Ben, Mike and Dave will work through things like that though.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 20, 2014, 10:26:50 am
This is obviously all subject to the contract that we agree with DJ Models, but our latest thinking (and Dave's proposal) is that the work carried out in the various stages of the project will belong to the project so for example let's say that the CAD work had been done and the factory we were using had a problem we would own the CAD and could take the design to another factory.

The other side of it (which Brooksy is talking about) is that DJM and we get our figures wrong at the start, which as I mentioned is really down to how we manage that (in terms of contigencies) and our (Ben's, Dave's and my) experience of producing models.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on August 20, 2014, 10:38:47 am
Money starts being taken the minute a successfully project reaches is closing deadline, not when funded. It can take a couple of days to collect all the funds, it then takes 7 days for the funds to transfer across to the designated bank account.

If the project is not successfully in reaching its minimum goal in the set time period no money chances hands. Projects will carry on once past the initial goal until time runs out, some projects run many times over initial target, others just scrape over.

This type of funding is very popular in wargaming, I have backed several such projects, this would be the fiveth in model railway world that I am aware of. The third British N Gauge project but the first for RTR. There has been one other RTR project for an Australian N Scale locomotive, that project did not reach funding goal.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on August 20, 2014, 09:56:59 pm
Yes, the Australian AD60. I don't know the prototype but the cost for a single loco was going to be higher than the proposed price for a 9-car Pendolino.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 27, 2014, 12:57:54 pm
Folks

Thanks for all the comments and ideas - we really do appreciate them.

We've started to put together the outline of a website, but there are still quite a few questions regarding interest in the project and particularly specifications that it would be very useful to get a bit more empirical evidence on.

To that end we would be very grateful if you could complete a short questionnaire: http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/ (http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/) (it should take no more than 5 minutes!)

Many thanks

Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NTrain on August 27, 2014, 01:17:54 pm
Not spotted this on the DEMU Forum. I would think this would be right within their mandate.........
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on August 27, 2014, 01:30:45 pm
Questionaire filled out - I thought it would be longer than it was.

Regards pricing - I thought that it was interesting that the options of how much would you pay only increased on £250 and didn't go lower. My replies to the questions (before I got to this one) were based on the price being £250. If the price moves up to £300+ you will likely have less willing people (I would certainly reconsider). I guess though you'll find out all this by the replies to the questionaire but for me, I think you should be trying to see what you can do for £250.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 27, 2014, 02:09:53 pm
Hi Brooksy

Thanks.

I don't think realistically it will be possible to go much below £250 for a 9-coach train.  When a single powered unit is selling for £100+ then you have 8 more coaches (say £15-20 each) to produce then you are already in the £250 ball park figure.

Having said which we are interested in whether people would be interested in shorter rakes if they don't want or can't afford a full set.

Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on August 27, 2014, 02:13:20 pm
Done!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on August 27, 2014, 02:50:14 pm
I don't think realistically it will be possible to go much below £250 for a 9-coach train.  When a single powered unit is selling for £100+ then you have 8 more coaches (say £15-20 each) to produce then you are already in the £250 ball park figure.

Using (the lower end of) your figures 100 + 8x15 = £220. Sure people will not buy it for a lot of reasons (e.g. no end coupler, etc.) but I think that for a lot of people price will be the most important - it will be interesting to see if this what your survey says too. I think that £250 is entirely reasonable  - I was just a bit scared when I saw an option of £350 in the survey.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 27, 2014, 03:01:23 pm
The way that Kickstarter works (if you don't meet your funding target then you get nothing) we have to explore pricing options as it we need to understand the best way to meet the funding target.

For example:

Assuming the funding target is £250k.

1000 people paying £250/set is the same as 715 people paying £350/set.

So we need to find the balance between the funding target, price are prepared/able to pay and numbers of people interested in buying one or more.  It would be very frustrating to have say 900 people willing to pay £300 and for us to set the price at £250 and not meet the funding target.

I don't for one minute think we will end up at £350/set! (Or at least I hope not!)

Obviously the more people we can get interested in the project the better!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on August 27, 2014, 03:23:44 pm
FWIW I put £300 as an acceptable price!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on August 27, 2014, 03:42:56 pm
For example:

Assuming the funding target is £250k.

1000 people paying £250/set is the same as 715 people paying £350/set.

Ok, thanks for the info - I had not considered this scenario. I thought that the important threshold was the 1000 people not the £250k and the funding target would be set at 1000 x price per set.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 27, 2014, 04:45:49 pm
In theory the numbers should be a bit different as for the 715 people you have lower production and shipping costs, just the same fixed costs. Fix costs can easily dominate though with model production.


The big issues to my mind with Kickstarter funding are the ones about failure after the target is met. It's basically the equivalent of buying shares in a business except that its unregulated, you get no say, there is almost no legal protection.

For small things, or if you trust people then it's great. For big things I think it's always asking for a fall because something can go wrong and there is no recourse because you are effectively the investor not the customer.

I'm involved in several kickstarter funded projects but I'd hate to be responsible for fulfilling a big one !

Alan


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 27, 2014, 05:03:54 pm
Alan

You are right, but using Kickstarter doesn't give you that option - you are asked to name a funding target and how you fulfil that is left to the project.

I share some of your concerns about crowdfunding - that is why it is important to get the business plan right to start with and then to only release funds in stages.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Caz on August 27, 2014, 05:21:48 pm
Although it is completely not in either my time period or area, I would be prepared to buy one just to see it made and you never know, I may give up kettles one day.   :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: kirky on August 27, 2014, 06:31:09 pm
Caz
It's perfectly ok to own a pendo and still have kettles, you don't have to do one exclusively.
As long as its N  :NGaugersRule:

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on August 27, 2014, 08:03:02 pm

Hello Alan,

You make some good points, and they are similar to the concerns I had before deciding to get involved with this.

In terms of project delivery, both. Mike and I have done this with a variety of models for the NGS via both Dapol and Farish.  I am confident I can take care of package design and marketing while Mike has experience in budget controls and websites. We'll do all this sort of stuff unpaid, thus saving a relatively small but significant amount  to keep the pledge level as low as possible.

Similarly, rather than going it alone we are utilising Dave Jones's expertise and links with particular factories in China. Both Dave, and as importantly the factory, have a proven track record in producing high quality models in N - most notably perhaps the Class 52 western.

On top of this, for DJM there is the prize of this model joining his range in the future.  Not only does this allow him to subsidise the Kickstarter project to a considerable degree (bearing costs of shipping, taxes etc) but it's also a very strong incentive to succeed. Plus once the project is underway we would be covered by the same financial protections that DJM use for their own models in event of the factory burning down or some other unforeseen calamity.

The thing about Kickstarter is that once the funding is there there is no advantage to anyone in the supply chain for the project not to deliver.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 27, 2014, 08:04:37 pm
I don't think fraud is the problem - it's the 'Dave Jones taken ill' problem that is more of a concern.

I'm hoping it works well. My own rule of thumb is 'would I buy this off the people named via ebay', which is really not much different!


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: DJM Dave on August 27, 2014, 08:08:42 pm
God I hope not, unless you have me as. Marked man? Lol :angel:

Mind you..............

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on August 27, 2014, 08:29:13 pm
I work in Information services and a number of my smaller projects are turning grey area IT into enterprise solutions.

these are typically apps that one person has come up with but need to be hardened and made supportable, the question we most commonly ask is the what happens if Dave is hit by a bus.....as all knowledge of the product is held in one brain :) and not properly documented

In this project I think that is less of an issue as you have 3 people putting it together I would encourage them to have a shared knowledge and be as transparent as possible (ie a good communication plan :)) so if one is indisposed everything doesn't fail
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on August 27, 2014, 08:50:47 pm
the question we most commonly ask is the what happens if Dave is hit by a bus.....

Be OK if it's a Farish bus, they're underscale so won't hurt so much ;)


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 29, 2014, 06:00:23 pm
Thanks to everyone who has completed the survey - it is already starting to provide some useful information which will help us decide on the specification (albeit on a relatively small sample size!).

If there is more interest in the project please do take a couple of minutes to fill in the survey - it is only short!

http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/ (http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/)

(And please sign up to our newsletter so that it is easier to keep you informed when the project goes properly live!)

Many thanks

Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on August 29, 2014, 06:26:53 pm
Mike,

Done the survey - but one thing slipped my mind - will capability to take 9" curves be an issue do you think?

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Roy L S on August 29, 2014, 07:19:17 pm
Thanks to everyone who has completed the survey - it is already starting to provide some useful information which will help us decide on the specification (albeit on a relatively small sample size!).

If there is more interest in the project please do take a couple of minutes to fill in the survey - it is only short!

[url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/[/url])

(And please sign up to our newsletter so that it is easier to keep you informed when the project goes properly live!)

Many thanks

Mike


Hi Mike

I think I have completed it correctly. While not able to commit to a full 9 car set at £250, a shorter 5 car one I could probably justify (assuming it would come in at a proportionately lower price).

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 29, 2014, 07:28:19 pm
Thanks to everyone who has completed the survey - it is already starting to provide some useful information which will help us decide on the specification (albeit on a relatively small sample size!).

If there is more interest in the project please do take a couple of minutes to fill in the survey - it is only short!

[url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/[/url])

(And please sign up to our newsletter so that it is easier to keep you informed when the project goes properly live!)

Many thanks

Mike

I think I have completed it correctly. While not able to commit to a full 9 car set at £250, a shorter 5 car one I could probably justify (assuming it would come in at a proportionately lower price).


Thanks Roy - provided between us we can work out a sensible way of managing orders for incomplete sets then we will try to offer a shortened set (and yes, it would be lower priced).  We've got to see what is possible with Dave but we certainly have it in mind.

Done the survey - but one thing slipped my mind - will capability to take 9" curves be an issue do you think?


Hi Jon

Good point! The intermediate coaches should squeeze round 9 inch curves (as they are roughly the same length as a Voyager car), the driving cars might be slightly more problematic as they are 25m coaches (as opposed to 23.9m). We will have to investigate.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on August 29, 2014, 07:54:22 pm
Good point! The intermediate coaches should squeeze round 9 inch curves (as they are roughly the same length as a Voyager car), the driving cars might be slightly more problematic as they are 25m coaches (as opposed to 23.9m). We will have to investigate.

Fingers crossed - the layout is already built!  I wouldn't mind doing some minor mods (to the Pendo) but it would be nice not to have to.

By the way, my "Eurostar" takes the 9" curves with no problem despite the instructions saying otherwise.

Cheers

Jon   :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 29, 2014, 08:05:49 pm
Eurostars are shorter bodies than a Pendolino (shorter than a Mk3 IIRC) so I wouldn't have expected them to have a problem!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on August 29, 2014, 09:41:34 pm
Would it not be best to ensure it does go round 9" curves as surely one piece of the target market will be youngsters starting out with a small oval of track such that they can have one of their favourite trains going round. More experienced modellers would benefit from this in the sure knowledge larger layouts would cope better :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on August 29, 2014, 10:06:57 pm
Would it not be best to ensure it does go round 9" curves

Nobby

As I've already said, if possible then that will be the case but it would not be the first (or last) model that does not go round 9" curves - there are plenty out there already which don't like 9" curves.

We need to check whether it is physically possible for such a long coach to go round 9" curves.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on August 30, 2014, 12:44:33 am

Hello there,

Running problems on tight radius track are usually a problem for long fixed wheelbase vehicles (eg 2-10-0 steam locos) or for vehicles where the bogie swing is impeded - for example by the lower edge of the bodyside or streamlining valances.

For the Pendolino, the bogies are of a fairly standard wheelbase and their movement is not impeded.

It's feasible that there could be an issue with two Pendolinos meeting on a really right curve at correct scale 6' spacing, but Setrack spacing is intentionally widened to avoid this.  And if you're still worried then just run one at a time!

cheers


Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on August 30, 2014, 07:26:10 am
I work in Information services and a number of my smaller projects are turning grey area IT into enterprise solutions.

these are typically apps that one person has come up with but need to be hardened and made supportable, the question we most commonly ask is the what happens if Dave is hit by a bus.....as all knowledge of the product is held in one brain :) and not properly documented

In this project I think that is less of an issue as you have 3 people putting it together I would encourage them to have a shared knowledge and be as transparent as possible (ie a good communication plan :)) so if one is indisposed everything doesn't fail
Totally agree (and have had the same experiences as you regarding projects in IT and also supporting legacy software but that is another long story  :()
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on August 30, 2014, 08:08:37 am
For the Pendolino, the bogies are of a fairly standard wheelbase and their movement is not impeded.

Hurrah!!    :thumbsup:

In my mind the project has been completed and two of them are charging past each-other on Deansmoor!

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 04, 2014, 01:57:18 pm

Hello all,

Just a quick update to say progress is being made and Mike and I are planning to have more concrete plans and leaflets available soon.

We've also been updating e thread on RM web - I find the interface there easier to use, especially with an iPad, when it comes to uploading photos etc.

However though there is more content there, all relevant information, timings and any deadlines will be posted here too.

Please also check our website www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com) where you can register interest without obligation and complete a survey which will give us a more concrete idea of what is important to people.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on September 04, 2014, 04:11:43 pm
I do like the website  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 04, 2014, 04:35:40 pm

Thanks Pengi!

Mike did the hard work - I just supplied some graphics and a bit of text.

We'll be looking to add more content as we go along too, though of course still very happy to answer questions and maintain debate here..

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on September 05, 2014, 02:56:32 pm
Following on from the discussion on RMWeb (sorry not a member on there) have you got a plan to advertise to the international market? I'm not totally sure but I think that there are few modellers around the world that would be interested - the ones that have a TGV/Eurostar/ICE/Bullet just for the fun of it. Maybe you can find people that are active on the NGF/RMweb and their local forum be it France/Holland/Germany/USA/Japan/etc. and they can spread the word. It may only bring in a few people but it might be enough to tip the balance. There may be a problem that is 1:148 scale rather than 1:160 but I find this difference isn't huge - especially considering the UK loading gauge is generally smaller so it shouldn't look oversized sat next to a TGV.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on September 05, 2014, 03:47:20 pm
Hi Brooksy

No, not really - I'm not sure that Ben or I would know where best to tell people about the project outside of the UK.  Though I've noted from the web stats that an American forum has become interested in the project and the funding concept!

If you've got any bright ideas we'd be delighte to hear them.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 05, 2014, 08:24:55 pm

Hello all,

The publicity machine is starting now... posters and leaflets prepared for the "lauch" next weekend.

Dave Jones will have posters and flyers on his stand at the Ricoh Arena/BRM event while we've already had layouts and traders at TINGS ask about helping us.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/41/thumb_15547.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=15547)

If anyone here is attending a show in the coming weeks with a layout or as trade and can help, or if anyone wants flyers to give out at clubs, local events etc please let us know.  For anyone overseas I'd be happy to send PDFs of posters of flyers that could be circulated and forwarded...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on September 05, 2014, 09:19:30 pm
Starting this weekend I am at a show every weekend for the next 4 weeks so can I collect any flyers from somewhere at TINGS, Ben?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 06, 2014, 04:06:42 pm

Hello there,

Yes, we have already had offers from traders and exhibitors at TINGS.

So far we know that there'll be flyers at the Electra/N-Train stand, the DEMU stand and the layout Santa Barbara.  I also imagine layouts like Law Junction which would run Pendolinos will also oblige.   And for those attending the BRM/RMWeb show at the Ricoh arena there'll be posters and flyers on the DJM stand and Kinlet Wharf.

If anyone else is exhibiting and can support us please PM me and I will send some flyers.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 15, 2014, 11:48:56 am


Hello all,

A busy weekend and many thanks to those who either helped to distribute flyers, took one away to think about or gave us some valuable feedback.

For those who couldn't make it, here is an image of both sides of the flyer:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/thumb_15896.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=15896)

The headline news is that we are still aiming for a complete 9-car set for a pledge of £250.  This set will be prototypically numbered for every car and there will be four different sets available.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

For those who wish to make smaller pledges, we are following the recent Kato system of splitting into SubSets of three.

SubSet 1 is a powered driving car, and two first class coaches including the pantograph car.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

SubSet 2 is the dummy driving car with the standard class section of the train including the bar/shop car.  Between them, these two sets include every different type of vehicle, two pantograph cars and can be combined to offer a representative 6-car train for £215; which compares well with the 5-car Brighton Belle at £200.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

SubSet 3 is designed to offer three trailer cars at a very competitive price for those who wish to complete their 6 car set with, perhaps, a gift from a family member as a pledge; or offer those who want an 11-car set a cheaper way of acquiring the extra cars they need.  Cheaper still if they can sell the remaining car on ebay!

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on September 15, 2014, 12:04:48 pm
Good idea offering subsets, might give those without the space for a 9-car train a chance to get one :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on September 15, 2014, 12:49:41 pm
Ben

Pleased to meet you at TINGS on Saturday.

Good to see how well and quickly you and Mike have developed this. Just need the equivalent of 1000 full set pledges now! I guess you are planning to refresh the contact with the printed magazines each month with a bit of news on development so that every edition from now to January 2015 stands the chance of getting some prominent editorial coverage.

I have a meeting in early November where I will be able to distribute flyers. I will contact you about these nearer the time as I am away a lot over the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: OwL on September 16, 2014, 09:12:54 pm
Apologies if I have missed something about the project but I have two questions:

A) Where or who does the £250 project fund go to?

B) What safe guards are in place to insure the money doesn't go walkies?

Please forgive the tone of the question but if I'm giving Big money to something I would like to know this investment is secured.

Apologies if this has been covered already.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 16, 2014, 11:06:55 pm
Hello Owl,

Perfectly reasonable questions.

When you pledge, no money is taken.  Only if the campaign reaches its *full* target is any cash required.  That money is paid to Kickstarter, then placed into an account administered by Mike and me that will be opened solely for the purposes of this project.

At key milestones money will be released to the factory for CAD, then tooling, then first shots, then full production.  At each stage, of course, the incentive for the company is to complete the task to release the next tranche of capital.  And at each stage investors will be kept fully informed of progress; one of our "incentive" ideas is to share CAD drawings, and photos of samples etc with backers a good few weeks before showing them on the internet etc. to the rest of the world.

Once the models have been assembled and sent to the UK they will be distributed by Kernow models, as part of their ongoing relationship with DJM.  DJM will also commission an additional number of units and parts to ensure a ready supply of spares and replacements as, in any mass production, there will inevitably be a small number of failures.  The costs of distribution are being met by DJM as part of the package.  If you are abroad there may be an additional delivery charge.

There are risks - of course - and Mike and I are currently working through strategies to mitigate these as best we can.  Bear in mind I'll be in for two units - ie £500 pledge - and I think Mike is the same.  And neither of us wants to lose our cash!

We've been talking to those in the industry and been given some fantastic advice as well as top tips on pitfalls to look out for and we are very grateful to those who've shared their expertise with us.

When we actually launch on Kickstarter there is a mandatory section that outlines the risk and I am hoping at that stage there will be plenty more flesh on the bones that will offer reassurance..

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on September 17, 2014, 01:09:09 am
...
A) Where or who does the £250 project fund go to?

B) What safe guards are in place to insure the money doesn't go walkies?

Please forgive the tone of the question but if I'm giving Big money to something I would like to know this investment is secured.
...

please bare the following in mind....

https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store (https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/kickstarter-is-not-a-store)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on September 17, 2014, 01:44:20 pm
Hello Ben

Will you be using your transparent couplings on this project?

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: OwL on September 17, 2014, 01:53:30 pm
Ben A and Mickster04 many thanks for your replies and explaining everything :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 17, 2014, 10:46:44 pm

Hello Mike,

The inter-vehicle coupling system has not been finalised - that sort of detailed design is pointless until we know we have funding.

The real thing has the couplers "inside" the gangway - see this link:

http://metcam.co.uk.nstempintl.com/pics/68810.jpg (http://metcam.co.uk.nstempintl.com/pics/68810.jpg)

I suspect we will do something similar using some form of simple and discreet bar coupler.  I will want to make it easier to connect than the Farish Voyager which works well once they're snapped in but is "awkward" in dim lighting in an exhibition hall at 9.55am!

cheers

Ben

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 17, 2014, 10:47:47 pm
Ben A and Mickster04 many thanks for your replies and explaining everything :thumbsup:


No probs - the only dumb question is the one you don't ask!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on September 18, 2014, 07:34:11 am

Hello Mike,

The inter-vehicle coupling system has not been finalised - that sort of detailed design is pointless until we know we have funding.

The real thing has the couplers "inside" the gangway - see this link:

[url]http://metcam.co.uk.nstempintl.com/pics/68810.jpg[/url] ([url]http://metcam.co.uk.nstempintl.com/pics/68810.jpg[/url])

I suspect we will do something similar using some form of simple and discreet bar coupler.  I will want to make it easier to connect than the Farish Voyager which works well once they're snapped in but is "awkward" in dim lighting in an exhibition hall at 9.55am!

cheers

Ben

Would it be possible to do something like the Kato bullet train connectors? They are so easy and work well :thumbsup: Appreciate there may be copyright issues though :thumbsdown: The Farish Voyager couplings are awful to connect :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 18, 2014, 05:29:38 pm
Hi Pengi,

I'm not familiar with the Kato bullet train - can you photograph or describe the couplers on them?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on September 18, 2014, 08:42:43 pm
the dapol voyager magnetic coupling are an elegant alternative?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: kirky on September 19, 2014, 10:57:24 pm
Surely something like the coupling system on the Dapol 156 would work well, which is a hidden hook and eye. But the pivoting gangways are very clever since the allow close coupling but move when going round corners. It's not too fiddly to put together.
Of course at te other end, the cab end on the 156, thre is the Sharfenberg coupler which I think is made by tomix. Dave from DJM will be familiar with both of these alternatives.
Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on September 20, 2014, 08:53:59 pm
Hi Pengi,

I'm not familiar with the Kato bullet train - can you photograph or describe the couplers on them?

cheers

Ben A.
Will take some pictures tomorrow
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on September 21, 2014, 01:50:34 pm
Pictures of Kato Nozomi 500 couplings - the mechanism of which is probably subject to copyright

View of the coupling end on. There is a lug halfway up the carriage which cannot be seen in this picture
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/thumb_16397.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16397)

View of coupling showing the lug
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/thumb_16398.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16398)

The two carriages just push together with a reassuring 'click'
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/thumb_16399.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16399)

There is hardly any gap between the carriages
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/thumb_16400.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16400)

View underneath and on top of the connected carriages
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/thumb_16401.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16401)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/40/thumb_16402.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=16402)

I think Kato have got it spot on with this mechanism :thumbsup: There are no issues with carriages becoming uncoupled when going round the track (either on 381 or 414 mm curves)


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: dude2112 on September 23, 2014, 07:35:34 pm
I have signed up for this. As some of my friends at my local shop have said, " why has no one including the big manufactures " thought of this before......
The demand is there but no body seems ta want to push the development of this item...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 23, 2014, 08:54:11 pm

Hi Pengi

Thanks for posting those photos - very helpful.  You may be right about that specific coupler being patented however I imagine something similar but different should be achievable. 

The key thing appears to be having the coupler inside the corridor connector, so it's entirely hidden from view.   The prototype Pendolinos have this, so I see no reason why we should not.

In answer to your comment dude2112, the major manufacturers have consistently found that OHLE models - no matter how good - don't sell in the quantities they would like - cf the Class 350 Desiro and the Class 86.  They can't make a business case for a Pendolino, however by going "direct" to the factory we think we can.

But I think the critical thing is to get the message out to the "rule 1" modellers who may not usually go for OHLE models but might make an exception for such an iconic and complete express train.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: OwL on September 27, 2014, 01:02:52 am
I look forward to seeing this develop (fingers crossed)

What I like about 'foreign' Multiple units or fixed formation train sets in model form is that they sell you the whole train or set.
This is something I hope this project does.

In Dapol I can buy a HST  box set which gives me front and rear drive units plus x2 coaches!
Other UK manufacturers do the same with fixed formation trains??  Why?

It's like buying a diecast boxed set of the Red Arrows in 1/72nd scale but only getting 4 out of the 9 aircraft!

Overseas manufacturers tend to release the train set as whole, not wanting their customers wait 2/3 years later to purchase the extra carriages!!

Hope this Pendo set offers a complete set.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on September 27, 2014, 10:35:50 am
Not everyone has room for a full 2+8 HST or 9-car Pendolino, so it makes sense to offer smaller sets for those who may feel happy with a shorter formation.

There is also the subject of cost - many modellers these days are finding budgets getting squeezed from all directions, so may wish to build up a full rake gradually rather than in one big hit.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on September 27, 2014, 03:31:07 pm
Not everyone has room for a full 2+8 HST or 9-car Pendolino, so it makes sense to offer smaller sets for those who may feel happy with a shorter formation.

There is also the subject of cost - many modellers these days are finding budgets getting squeezed from all directions, so may wish to build up a full rake gradually rather than in one big hit.

This makes perfect sense - but for those of us who wouldn't be happy with a 2+2 HST (or similar) the full train should also be available - otherwise we may hold off getting the initial four car pack because of the uncertainty and hassle of finding the rest of the train!

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on September 27, 2014, 06:03:26 pm

Hi all,

Just to be clear, this project is about funding production of all the different vehicles required for a full, correct 9-car Pendolino.  It will only proceed, and money will only be taken, if we receive enough pledges for us to reach this target.

There are smaller pledge points available for those who want to support the project but for whatever reason do not wish to pledge for the full £250, but realistically we need the majority of pledgers to go for the full amount if we're to stand any chance of succeeding.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on October 01, 2014, 01:30:47 pm
Please can you include a driver in the cab of the Pendolino?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on October 01, 2014, 01:53:36 pm
That was one of the options we asked about in our survey - there hasn't been overwhelming demand for a driver in the cab (and which cab do you put it in?!?), though it would clearly be in the nice to have list.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on October 02, 2014, 07:37:28 am
That was one of the options we asked about in our survey - there hasn't been overwhelming demand for a driver in the cab (and which cab do you put it in?!?), though it would clearly be in the nice to have list.

Cheers, Mike
It was a little while ago when I did the survey and can't remember the questions  :oopssign: I hope I answered yes to that question  :worried:  :help:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on October 06, 2014, 01:45:04 pm
Hello all,

In the N Gauge Yahoo group a comment has been made suggesting that the N Gauge Pendolino is linked to the NGS.

Although Mike is the NGS Product Development Officer (Committee post) and I am an Honorary Vice President (non-committee post) I want to make it clear that this is NOT an N Gauge Society project - it's just Mike and I seeing a possibility and thinking it worth while trying to make it happen.

The NGS RTR projects are widely regarded as both a great service to members and a useful incentive to join, however they are a little constrained in that they need to be useful to as many NGS members as possible; this invariably means that the chosen prototype has to have been active during the BR steam/diesel transition period that a significant rump of the membership prefer.

A purely modern item such as the Pendolino would be very difficult for the NGS to justify - and it's because of scepticism within the trade about the size/viability of the market for OHLE models that I believe we need anyone remotely interested in this train to step forward when we go live with the Kickstarter page!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: roundhouse on October 06, 2014, 05:16:51 pm
Anyone wishing to pick up a leaflet, I will hAve some on Banbury at  the Farnham show this coming weekend
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Howlin`baz on October 06, 2014, 07:09:45 pm
Hello all, :hellosign: :hellosign: :hellosign:

In the N Gauge Yahoo group a comment has been made suggesting that the N Gauge Pendolino is linked to the NGS.

Although Mike is the NGS Product Development Officer (Committee post) and I am an Honorary Vice President (non-committee post) I want to make it clear that this is NOT an N Gauge Society project - it's just Mike and I seeing a possibility and thinking it worth while trying to make it happen.

The NGS RTR projects are widely regarded as both a great service to members and a useful incentive to join, however they are a little constrained in that they need to be useful to as many NGS members as possible; this invariably means that the chosen prototype has to have been active during the BR steam/diesel transition period that a significant rump of the membership prefer.

A purely modern item such as the Pendolino would be very difficult for the NGS to justify - and it's because of scepticism within the trade about the size/viability of the market for OHLE models that I believe we need anyone remotely interested in this train to step forward when we go live with the Kickstarter page!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on October 06, 2014, 09:46:22 pm
Were you meant to have made a comment about Ben's quote, Baz? :confused1:
I'm not entirely comfortable with being referred to as a significant rump :hmmm: ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on October 06, 2014, 11:50:56 pm
If the pants fit Nobby............
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on October 21, 2014, 07:30:30 pm

Hello all,

Good to see some great coverage in the model railway press for this project.  Thanks to Rail Express and British. Railway Modelling for their support - gives lie to the myth that the mags aren't interested in N!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/38/thumb_17696.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17696)

We will be launching the Kickstarter phase of the campaign really soon, and this is when we need the support of *everyone* who wants a Pendolino. 

It's a great chance to show what modellers can achieve if they work together, and of course no  money will be taken unless we have enough pledges to reach our target to complete the project.

Getting 1000 people to commit is a tall order, and if you wait for others to take the strain I don't think we will make it.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 07, 2014, 10:42:59 am
In the MRE Mag Wishlist Poll published today almost 1 in 7 voters chose the Pendolino. 467 people voted in the N gauge section and 64 of these chose the Pendolino.

As Ben said it is going to be a tall order to get the commitment to 1000 models, so if you want one for yourself you probably need to recruit some more buyers too. I'll be picking up some flyers at Warley to distribute at a forthcoming meeting of railway people and I have been offered the chance to make a short presentation too.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 07, 2014, 12:27:03 pm
Thanks Mike - interesting stuff.

We will have some exciting news on the Pendolino project hopefully by the middle of next week - we are just nailing down all the details and then we will let everyone know.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: DJM Dave on November 08, 2014, 12:02:52 pm
It is with regret that I write to inform you all that unfortunately DJModels will not be the manufacturer and supplier of the mooted N gauge Pendolino project.
 
A third party has offered to produce 800 models for both Mr Hale and Mr Ando and as such they have agreed, at this late hour, to transfer manufacture and project management to China / Canada rather than keep it within the British Isles and China.
 
The production amount of 800 models is indeed a good one, and one, which would not have left DJModels with any wiggle room regarding VAT, import duty and shipping, plus bespoke packaging, spares etc and as such would not be financially viable for me over the short term despite DJModels having the ownership of the tooling thereafter, and the longevity of the hard steel tooling allowing DJM to produce this model every couple of years for many years to come.
 
It is a project I would dearly have loved the DJModels Ltd name to be attached to, and although I do not agree with their reasons for changing, I do understand that the smaller figure of 800 models will give the project a better chance of success.
 
Being an N gauge modeller myself, success can only be good for the hobby in general, and I would urge any modellers interested to support Mike and Ben in this venture to the best of their ability, as I know that these 2 can and will bring a magnificent iconic model to us all.
 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 08, 2014, 12:16:20 pm

Hello all,

I'd just like to thank Dave for all the work he put in to this project, and his good grace and professionalism in the circumstances.

The N Gauge Pendolino, if we generate adequate backing, will now be produced by Rapido trains of Canada.  They're becoming well known to British modellers as they are entering the OO market with a model of the iconic APT-E train.

The APT-E was, in some ways, the forerunner of the Pendolino as the tilt technology was handed down, and for Rapido's entry into the British N gauge market, where maybe the APT-E makes a little less sense, the Pendolino is a good fit.

Rapido are an exciting, established and well-regarded company and we feel that any model produced by them has every chance of equalling the quality we would have been confident of getting from DJM.

The bottom line is that Rapido will produce the model if we can generate 800 pledges, instead of the 1,000 DJM would have needed.  As Kickstarter is an all-or-nothing mechanism, Mike Hale and I feel that we have to go with the option that gives us the best chance of getting over that initial hurdle.

Any questions and Mike and I are happy to answer them, and once again we would like to acknowledge the significant debt we owe to Dave in terms of inspiring this project in the first place.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on November 08, 2014, 12:22:29 pm
Hi Ben

When and how do we actually "sign" the pledge?

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 08, 2014, 12:37:59 pm

Hi Jon,

The Kickstarter page will be launching sometime in the next week or two.  Once it does, we will make sure we tell people here!

There are some changes to the rewards too.  We are offering a DCC sound factory-fitted option, which we believe is a first for British N, and the new pledge levels are:

Full 9-car Pendolino £255
Full 9-car Pendolino with sound £350

Short set 5 cars £195
Short set 5 cars with sound £290

2-car add on pack to make 11-car sets £30.

Sets will have powered cars at both ends, and sound versions will have sound units at both ends.  All vehicles will pick up power, and we are investigating the possibility of power transfer between vehicles for smooth running; though probably using magnets, not the plug system used by Arnold on the Brighton Belle.   Other specs as per original plan.

Also, 10 different numbersets will be on offer, and Rapido say they are prepared to be completely flexible about the numbers, so if pledge levels make it appropriate we can number some of the 9-car sets in the 390/1 series to create accurate 11-car formations with the add-on packs.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on November 08, 2014, 12:53:24 pm
I see you have dropped the lower tiers which is a a shame as I would have backed for an un-motorised end and coach or 2. This would have looked good displayed as I will not be likely to run one. I think this move is interesting and I wish you success.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Smiffy on November 08, 2014, 07:39:28 pm
11 car with sound! "Be still my beating wallet"
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: steam-driven boy on November 09, 2014, 09:15:33 am
Hi,
I was delighted when Dave Jones became involved in this project, you would have to be very new to the N gauge fraternity not to know of his contribution to the considerable 'raising of the bar' in standards that has come about during his involvement with Dapol, instigating a quality improvement 'war' with Graham Farish that I believe has truly raised British N to levels enjoyed by Continental and US N scalers.
Ben is quite right to acknowledge his "good grace" at this turn of events.  I feel I am already supporting DJ Models with my early pre-orders for the Class 17 twin-set and J94 kettle, and serious interest in some of his announced models for his next introductions, I think Dave will be keeping my wallet cowering in a dark corner for some time to come  :thumbsup:
I am equally delighted to see Rapido Trains take on the role, I have been aware of their status in niche market r-t-r for a while, my first acquisitions being...
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
I also await in the next couple of months a brace of their GMD-1s...
http://rapidotrains.com/gmd1_n.html (http://rapidotrains.com/gmd1_n.html)
...and I would recommend anyone uncertain as to just who 'these guys' are read Mike McGrattan's September Blog...
http://www.rapidotrains.com/blog/ (http://www.rapidotrains.com/blog/)
I've been following their involvement with NRM Locomotion on the OO APT-E with some serious  :drool:  :'( as I'd really love one in N, of course  ;)
The reduction in numbers required simply has to be a good thing. Although I have my 'printed' Pendolino still languishing in my 'to do' drawer  :-[ I will certainly be supporting this projecy when it 'kicks-off'  :doh: :D

Regards, Gerry  8)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 09, 2014, 10:36:52 am

Hi Gerry,

Just got home from a night shift but decided to read that blog entry before collapsing in a heap - and wow, that is a fascinating article.  I suppose, with the NGS stuff and my writing in Model Rail, I have some insight into the manufacturer's world, but even so I felt that Mike's blog made for an illuminating and absorbing read!

He also makes the point that the last decade or so has been defined by the rise of smaller companies and while I agree, I feel that if we can start to harness the power of crowd-funding, Kickstarter and the internet then the next decade could be defined by individual modellers getting together and simply commissioning what they want.

That's why I would urge anyone to really consider pledging support to our project when it goes live.  I think if this one can succeed - it's a big project, after all - then anything can and the floodgates could open...

Also, while Dave has done a huge amount for British N and has an exciting programme of releases planned (I am looking forward to my two Claytons!) I also think if we can get a company like Rapido to enter British N too it will be good news all round.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: free debt man on November 09, 2014, 11:01:15 am
I am going to order an 11 car Pendolino because it is modern & will look nice on the club's recently acquired  West Coast layout (Tamworth) even though I am still arguing for OHLE to be installed. There is another problem showed up when myself & Tim were running Choates Lane at the Westbury show yesterday. Choates Lane has two levels: the upper industrial area with British trains at 1/148: 70s, 66s, 60s, & even a 31, & the lower level HS1 line with Eurostars, TGVs, Thalys & ICEs at 1/160 scale. It would be nice if the Pendo was at more correct 1/160 scale then British models could match European & N American models. Especially if Ben & Mike decide to do the  "Javelin" next.
If only........................................... 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on November 09, 2014, 01:33:01 pm
If the Pendolino project is successful, I wonder what the chances of Rapido shriking down APT-E to N would be...?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on November 09, 2014, 02:19:28 pm
I It would be nice if the Pendo was at more correct 1/160 scale then British models could match European & N American models.
If only...........................................

No, no,.......please lord no...... :doh:

Hopefully you were only joking.....! 

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on November 09, 2014, 04:25:33 pm
Going for 800 rather than 1000 pledges was definately the right decision. But now a technical kickstarter question.

If I buy 2 9 car DDC sound sets and 2 x 2 car add ons, is that 2 pledges or 3?

For the same money I could pledge 3 9 car sets without DCC, I really want 2 with DCC but I'm willing to vote tactically to get the project to succeed if I need to!

Also I hope Rapido aren't too Rapido as I now need to invest in a DCC system and lots of chips for all my other stock!

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 09, 2014, 05:00:18 pm
Hi John

I think technically it counts as one pledge whichever you go for, but what we really need is to sell sets (rather than pledges).

Although that is a very kind thought to consider ordering one more set instead of sound, I would really recommend that people order what they really want!

Personally I think I will go for a 9-car and 11-car set with at least one with sound.  I think £95 for a factory fitted sound set is an absolute steal.

Timelines - we will reveal as the Kickstarter goes live but we are expecting it to compare very favourably with other manufacturers (subject to it all going smoothly of course!).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on November 09, 2014, 05:06:06 pm
Going for 800 rather than 1000 pledges was definately the right decision. But now a technical kickstarter question.

If I buy 2 9 car DDC sound sets and 2 x 2 car add ons, is that 2 pledges or 3?

For the same money I could pledge 3 9 car sets without DCC, I really want 2 with DCC but I'm willing to vote tactically to get the project to succeed if I need to!

Also I hope Rapido aren't too Rapido as I now need to invest in a DCC system and lots of chips for all my other stock!

John P

It is one pledge as it does not matter how many pledges the project gets it is purely down to reaching the targat amount of cash pledged by the deadline. If you wanted to you could select one unit and up your pledge to what ever level you like. So instead of pledging £255 for one you could say well I really want this to work and up my pledge to £300. I have done this before to help tip projects over and if every one gave an extra £5 it would soon equal another unit and get it closer to the goal.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 09, 2014, 06:00:59 pm
Well this is an unexpected turn of events.

I think careful consideration needs to be given as to how the 390 is marketed from this point onwards, particularly as the Kickstarter campaign will now be supporting a major, established Canadian manufacturer rather than a small UK business, which is not what people were told on the leaflets. Would Fleischmann or Märklin get 800 pre-orders if they announced a business decision to move into British N on the condition that people commit money up front? I'm not sure.

The £95 DCC Sound option seems completely mad counter-productive in the context of a Kickstarter campaign. I may be wrong here, but I would imagine those who have a large enough layout for a full-length 390 will have a fair collection of stock, and I would imagine that more stock you have, the less likely you are to spend £100 on each locomotive / unit adding a sound chip. I have 30-odd locos / units / power cars and the idea of spending over £3000 to fit DCC sound is just completely out of the question. DCC sound doesn't interest me as the cost is prohibitive, particularly in British N where the cost of the chip and speaker is often more than the cost of the locomotive. I suspect I'm not alone in my way of thinking and if, for argument's sake, only two people out of 800 sign up for the sound option, then that's a grand total of £190 you'll have made from dedicating resources, time and money to this particular feature (a feature which you'll have to honour if people have pledged for it).

I It would be nice if the Pendo was at more correct 1/160 scale then British models could match European & N American models.
If only...........................................


No, no,.......please lord no...... :doh:

Hopefully you were only joking.....! 

Cheers  Jon  :)


Indeed! Why would the 390 need to be made to the same scale as continental stock rather than British stock? I can only think of one occasion where a Pendolino was seen alongside a Eurostar (never mind a Thalys, TGV or an ICE!) and that was at Crewe for an open day! Of course a model in 1:160 scale might appeal to people wanting to recreate Alstom delivery trains in north-western Italy or up the eastern half of France, but I think we're talking limited numbers here.

Would make an interesting train though.

JB

(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg541/tanuccio7777/IMG_0538.jpg)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on November 09, 2014, 06:53:16 pm
Ooh..errr....!

That's a great idea - a diesel (or electric) drag option - then there is no excuse for anyone not to have one (unless you model historic railways  ???).

So add in a dummy Colas 66 and barrier wagon to the option pack Ben and Mike!   :sorrysign:

And a dummy "Thunderbird" for Holyhead drags.  :help:

Then the sound chip will have to be able to switch to a diesel sound, at least the front one.

Cheers  Jon  :)

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 09, 2014, 07:04:10 pm
I think careful consideration needs to be given as to how the 390 is marketed from this point onwards, particularly as the Kickstarter campaign will now be supporting a major, established Canadian manufacturer rather than a small UK business, which is not what people were told on the leaflets. Would Fleischmann or Märklin get 800 pre-orders if they announced a business decision to move into British N on the condition that people commit money up front? I'm not sure.

I think that we have to be honest here about where models are made - China (DJM or Rapido).  Ben and I had to make a decision which we thought had the best chance of getting the model produced and from that point of view getting 800 units sold was clearly a better option than 1000.  We both feel a great deal of responsibility to the supporters of this project, which is why we have invested so much time in trying to get things right and get the best deal for anyone who wants an N gauge Pendolino.

We are not talking about a manufacturer's decision - the reality is that no manufacturer was prepared to take the risk with a Pendolino, we are talking about the customers demonstrating that there is sufficient demand throuh a crowdfunding process (if there isn't then no one will be charged a penny).

The £95 DCC Sound option seems completely mad counter-productive in the context of a Kickstarter campaign. <snip> I suspect I'm not alone in my way of thinking and if, for argument's sake, only two people out of 800 sign up for the sound option, then that's a grand total of £190 you'll have made from dedicating resources, time and money to this particular feature (a feature which you'll have to honour if people have pledged for it).

Sorry that you feel that way - we don't, we feel we are offering British N gauge customers another level of choice.  If no one wants DCC sound then that is fine - we don't lose anything by offering it (we would have offered DCC ready with a space for a speaker anyway). There is no resource, financial or time penalty for offering the choice.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 09, 2014, 07:44:48 pm

Hello Jivebunny,

You make some very good points, and as Mike has mentioned above, this was not an easy decision for us at all; with lots of factors to weigh up.  We are incrediobly grateful to Dave for all the work he is doing and has done to support British N, but in the end we had to make the decision that we thought would be best for those who've helped and backed us and that meant choosing the option we judged to have the greatest chance of success.

I disagree that Rapido are a "large" company; the blog that Jerry linked to earlier today describes Rapido as a small manufacturer, and I would concur with this; indeed, I would argue that where Rapido is now is where I hope DJM will be in a couple of years time.

And Mike is right to say that this is not a question of pre-ordering for a model that will happen anyway; remember Dapol announced a Pendolino but then pulled out.  This is a model the mainstream manufacturers have considered very carefully, and then decided they cannot justify the investment. 

But, if we modellers come together and crowd source it we can: and in effect everyone who backs the project is getting the model for what, in normal channels, would be the "trade price."

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on November 09, 2014, 08:37:15 pm
Well this is an unexpected turn of events.

I think careful consideration needs to be given as to how the 390 is marketed from this point onwards, particularly as the Kickstarter campaign will now be supporting a major, established Canadian manufacturer rather than a small UK business, which is not what people were told on the leaflets.

Actually I think it is a positive switch. Rapido have an established reputation so we know exactly what quality to expect, while DJM is a new start-up and no matter how much I wanted the product I would not have pledged the sort of sums involved for the Pendolino for a project using DJM untill after we had the first DJM loco in our hands to judge on its own true merits instead of the hype generated about them on some other forums and being the cautious bunch we are I suspect a good many others felt the same... I doubt that any Crowd-funded project using DJM will succeed if the closing date preceeds the release of the first DJM loco...

The £95 DCC Sound option seems completely mad counter-productive in the context of a Kickstarter campaign. I may be wrong here, but I would imagine those who have a large enough layout for a full-length 390 will have a fair collection of stock, and I would imagine that more stock you have, the less likely you are to spend £100 on each locomotive / unit adding a sound chip. I have 30-odd locos / units / power cars and the idea of spending over £3000 to fit DCC sound is just completely out of the question. DCC sound doesn't interest me as the cost is prohibitive, particularly in British N where the cost of the chip and speaker is often more than the cost of the locomotive. I suspect I'm not alone in my way of thinking and if, for argument's sake, only two people out of 800 sign up for the sound option, then that's a grand total of £190 you'll have made from dedicating resources, time and money to this particular feature (a feature which you'll have to honour if people have pledged for it).
So your saying you don't want sound so it should not be an option available to others who do... Surely covering as many options as possible maximises the likelyhood of others subscribing...

Allowing others who want sound to have sound in no way impacts in you having it without sound so your comments do come across as rather blinkered and self centred...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 09, 2014, 09:30:07 pm
PLD,

At what point did I suggest sound shouldn't be offered purely because I don't want it? If it's going to be offered as an option then it's going to have to be designed and developed, regardless of how many people have pledged the full £350. If 200 people opt for it then the cost and effort will have been worthwhile, but as I said, if only two people select it out of 800 pledges then it risks taking a disproportionate chunk of time and money away from development of the main product. It just seems an odd option to propose in the context of a Kickstarter campaign. There's a heck of a big gap between 800 pledges at £350 and 800 pledges at £255. I'm sure the maths have been done though.

Ben and Mike,

Don't get me wrong, I fully support this project and intend to sign up for two 9-car units as I've said before.

I'm aware the manufacturing location remains the same and I wasn't getting at that. My point was that all of those people you reached out to at shows will have flyers in their hands asking them to support a couple of small, relatively-unknown UK-based businesses by providing them with the funds (effectively a loan) to get this project off the ground. Yet when the Kickstarter campaign actually gets underway they'll find they are in fact being asked to provide capital not only to an established business, but to one that's not based in the UK. For the uninformed that's likely to prompt questions such as "why does a company that's been successful for ten years need customers to fund their projects in advance?" and "will I need to fly to Canada to recover my money if Rapido closes its doors?". I think to avoid losing pledges, such questions need to be answered before they are even asked, and I think it's important not to gain support from people and then change the plan. The customers are the ones taking the financial risk here, not the manufacturer.

If no one wants DCC sound then that is fine - we don't lose anything by offering it (we would have offered DCC ready with a space for a speaker anyway). There is no resource, financial or time penalty for offering the choice.

Agreed - however if just one person pledges £350 for a sound-fitted unit then you'll either have to develop it for that one person, or not deliver what they've paid for. Additionally, if we take the previously-quoted figure of £250,000 for the development and manufacture of this unit, the fact that you're dropping the pledge target down to 800 whilst only increasing the unit price by £5 suggests either that going through Rapido has reduced your costs by a massive £46,000, or you're counting on more than half of the pledges opting for a £95 option (the price is reasonable, it's the total cost that might be a problem!)

Can we hope for a clarification on these points in the near future? I think if this Kickstarter campaign is to succeed then we need absolute transparency on where our money's going.

As an aside, and I'm assuming this has been thought of since the APT-E project seems to be well underway, but don't Hornby own the Rapido brand in the UK as far as model railways are concerned?

All the best,

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 09, 2014, 10:29:18 pm
My point was that all of those people you reached out to at shows will have flyers in their hands asking them to support a couple of small, relatively-unknown UK-based businesses by providing them with the funds (effectively a loan) to get this project off the ground. Yet when the Kickstarter campaign actually gets underway they'll find they are in fact being asked to provide capital not only to an established business, but to one that's not based in the UK. For the uninformed that's likely to prompt questions such as "why does a company that's been successful for ten years need customers to fund their projects in advance?" and "will I need to fly to Canada to recover my money if Rapido closes its doors?". I think to avoid losing pledges, such questions need to be answered before they are even asked, and I think it's important not to gain support from people and then change the plan. The customers are the ones taking the financial risk here, not the manufacturer.

The concept is still exactly the same as if DJM were project managing it. 

The answer to the first question is the same as earlier (and precisely the reason we went for a crowdfunding project)  - no manufacturer prepared to take the risk as things stand. That has not changed and it would be the same whether we were talking DJM, Rapido, Farish etc.

The answer to the second is no - Rapido are acting as an intermediary in exactly the same way that DJM would have been.  Ben and I are responsible for looking after pledgers' money (hence why we feel we had to do everything possible to ensure this has the best chance of happening).

Agreed - however if just one person pledges £350 for a sound-fitted unit then you'll either have to develop it for that one person, or not deliver what they've paid for.

There is no additional fixed cost to "develop" to add sound.  We were always going to make provision for it.  The price we are charging covers the cost of decoder purchase and install (plus if we need to purchase sounds). So if we only sell one with sound so be it - it doesn't change economics of the project.

Given that we are charging £95 for sound in both ends and it would normally cost double that I think we would be mad not to offer it.

Additionally, if we take the previously-quoted figure of £250,000 for the development and manufacture of this unit, the fact that you're dropping the pledge target down to 800 whilst only increasing the unit price by £5 suggests either that going through Rapido has reduced your costs by a massive £46,000, or you're counting on more than half of the pledges opting for a £95 option (the price is reasonable, it's the total cost that might be a problem!)

I'm not sure I understand your maths here.  £250k was for the development and production of 1000 units.  The reduction to 800 units will reduce the funding total required.  Not quite by 20% but not far off, hence we have had to add a small amount of £255 to the price per unit. Kickstarter in many ways is not perfect for this sort of scheme (as it is only interested in the amount of cash you raise, not the number of units pledged for or the price per unit), but it is the best we have.

As Ben said, this is not a decision we have taken lightly.  In practical terms it means that Ben and I have to do a lot more management of the project (which we are doing for free). In many ways sticking with DJM would have been the easy option for us, but it would not necessarily have been the right choice to give the project the best chance of happening.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Roy L S on November 09, 2014, 10:37:35 pm
As an aside, and I'm assuming this has been thought of since the APT-E project seems to be well underway, but don't Hornby own the Rapido brand in the UK as far as model railways are concerned?

All the best,

JB

 Arnold "Rapido" which you are presumably referring to is surely very different to "Rapido Trains" this Canadian company who will (hopefully) now be producing the Pendolino, a company which Hornby had no interest in.

I do see your point as regards DCC sound, it must surely add cost and complexity to the project which is the last thing I would have thought desirable. A simple package of products, 5 car "short", full 9 car and 2 car add-ons is surely better? But then we do not know the deal negotiated with Rapido and these costs may have been factored into the £250k required.

I have to admit, for a non modern modeller and definitely not an OHLE one, this Pendolino is becoming a pretty exciting prospect and I think I'm just going to have to take the plunge. Definitely a "Rule 1" buy though, and I think to be a success, targeting buyers outside of the core MI and OHLE market (which may not support 800 units) is an absolute must.

Regards

Roy   
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on November 09, 2014, 10:44:41 pm
PLD,

At what point did I suggest sound shouldn't be offered purely because I don't want it? If it's going to be offered as an option then it's going to have to be designed and developed, regardless of how many people have pledged the full £350.
You made it very clear you wanted it without sound:
The £95 DCC Sound option seems completely mad counter-productive ... ... ... DCC sound doesn't interest me
and then go on to argue that it should not be included in the design, thereby depriving those who are interest of that option...

My exact words were:
your saying you don't want sound so it should not be an option available to others who do...
You DID say you DID NOT want sound and that it should NOT be an option available to others.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 09, 2014, 10:47:08 pm
Hi

I was always going to pledge for a 9 car set but in order to use the set on my layout I would need to buy a pair of decoders (£60 for a pair of the ones I prefer). With the sound option on offer this would mean I get sound for only £35 more.

Depending on which sound decoders are fitted this may become better value than it was previously. Do you know which sound decoders will be used?

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on November 09, 2014, 10:49:47 pm
don't Hornby own the Rapido brand in the UK as far as model railways are concerned?
Not quite... Arnold GMBH - A subsidiary of Hornby International PLC, hold European Copyright on the term 'Rapido' in relation to a coupling mechanism for Model Railways.

The Canadian firm in question have International Trademarks on the Title "Rapido Trains" as a trading name.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on November 09, 2014, 10:56:05 pm
The customers are the ones taking the financial risk here, not the manufacturer.
Exactly...

My point was that all of those people you reached out to at shows will have flyers in their hands asking them to support a couple of small, relatively-unknown UK-based businesses by providing them with the funds (effectively a loan) to get this project off the ground. Yet when the Kickstarter campaign actually gets underway they'll find they are in fact being asked to provide capital not only to an established business, but to one that's not based in the UK.
So isn't the 'established business' with a proven track record, actually a much lower risk than a new start-up business who hasn't actually produced anything yet?


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 10, 2014, 12:16:03 am

Hello all,

Thanks for all the discussion, and I will do my best to answer points where I can.

Sound:  The only difference between a sound and a non-sound model is the sound model has a different chip and a speaker, and chips, speakers and PCB circuits are used "off the shelf" with the chassis block tooled to accommodate.  So adding sound adds only to the cost of actual model production, not cost of development.  And it doesn't add any complexity to the process for us.  For this reason we can add the option of sound without jeopardising the project.

Financial Risk: The whole point of Kickstarter is that money is only taken once the goal has been reached.  None of the pledges will actually be taken if we don't know from the outset that we have the cash to see the deal through.  Also, for both DJM and Rapido, credibility is at stake.  Rapido have produced numerous similar commissions for North American model shops (the equivalent of Kernow commissions in the UK) so they have a proven track record.  DJM is producing models for Kernow and Hattons as well so there is no shortage of confidence in both businesses.  And at the end they get the tooling for the future.  In every sense there is far more incentive for them to deliver than not.

Reduction in Cost of £46k: Yes, because we only have to find the funding for 800 models our target is considerably reduced - this is the main reason the Rapido deal won out.

Loan:  I am not sure I see this as a loan, more a case of modellers using the internet to work together to use their joint financial clout to fund a model they want, with a manufacturer that is prepared to work with them to provide it.  In years gone by we have all "lobbied" manufacturers to produce a new model - invariably telling them that our pet projects would "sell by the bucket load" without any real evidence to support this.  What we are doing now is going to the next level and saying "this is the model we want and here is the money to do it."

Rapido name:  As others have said, Rapido is the name of the company and nothing to do with rapido couplers that Arnold manufacture, and not a concern here.

Roy:  Yes, we really need "Rule 1" modellers and collectors to come on board.  It's the same reason I bought a Brighton Belle - not my era or location but still an iconic and beautiful train.

cheers

Ben A.


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Steven B on November 10, 2014, 12:46:15 pm
Seeing the rapid developement of the NRM APT-E on RMWeb I think the time scales involved in producing the Pendolino have been reduced quite significantly. Rapido were responsible for producing Real Track Models class 143 & 144. I'm sure Rapido Trains will give those involved in this project something to be proud of.

The work Dave Jones has done so far on his DJM range is great but I suspect he'd agree that it's taking longer than he'd like to get the models in the shops.

What will happen to the tools now the project will go ahead with Rapido? I believe DJM were originally going to retain the tooling in exchange for transporting, importing and supporting the model.



Happy modelling.

Steven B.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 10, 2014, 01:09:25 pm

Hi Steven

Yes - as with the previous plan the tools will revert to Rapido ownership at the end of this project.  However, they have agreed not to produce another run of Pendolinos for at least 2 years.

Both Mike and I felt that while apparently counter-intuitive, knowing that the tools will go to them and the model will join their range is an incentive for our partner - whether Rapido or DJM - to (a) do their best job (b) get on with it and (c) keep the price down.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: BudgieJane on November 10, 2014, 01:35:08 pm
So if DJM Dave is not now doing the Pendolino, does that mean that he has room for something else, such as an Electrostar. I would like several 12-car trains of those, if someone would like to make them.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on November 10, 2014, 01:50:06 pm
So if DJM Dave is not now doing the Pendolino, does that mean that he has room for something else, such as an Electrostar. I would like several 12-car trains of those, if someone would like to make them.
I'd say it gives him room to prioritise his own branded products and get those to market. That will establish his reputation and give the assurance that he can deliver, making future similar projects more likely to reach the required number of pledges...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 10, 2014, 02:29:02 pm
So if DJM Dave is not now doing the Pendolino, does that mean that he has room for something else, such as an Electrostar. I would like several 12-car trains of those, if someone would like to make them.

The issue is not really about capacity (there is plenty of capacity in various factories), the issue is more about whether a manufacturer is confident that there is sufficient demand. You are realistically looking at a minimum of 1000 units that need to be sold. Then you need to put in a lot of work to sort out a funding mechanism and to publicise the project.

I'm surprised that no manufacturer has looked at the Electrostar family, with a bit of smart tooling there looks to be lots of possibilities.

Ben and I have said from day 1 that if the Pendolino is successful we will certainly look at possibilities for the "next" project. We feel that we have learnt a lot about the possibilities over the past 2-3 months. Of course the proof will be if the project is funded!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 10, 2014, 08:04:37 pm
Even if the pendolino project isn't successful the electrostar family would be a great choice to try again with kickstarter.... bigger area of interest and time but less iconic.

Though that would be down to how much energy you had for going again :)

i await the kickstarter opening, credit card at the ready, even put of the purchase of my new mountain bike till this is done.. if it fails i get a better bike.....




Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 10, 2014, 08:27:37 pm
I'm in!

Best regards and good luck to the project
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 10, 2014, 10:59:58 pm

Hi Zakalwe,

There is no doubt that in theory Kickstarter, or similar crowd funding methodology, offers us exciting opportunities if we are able to take them.

I hope we can set the ball properly rolling with the Pendolino, not just because I want one but because once others have seen that this can work it will engender confidence and open the doors to other projects.

Indeed, if the Pendolino succeeds and reaches its target, I suspect the problem might be a surge of similar schemes that could fall short not because they are flawed, but because they are in competition.  It may pay for us to take stock at that time and consider how best to manage such a situation.  I have some ideas - as I am sure do others - about how this might be achieved.

However, for now my focus is very much on doing all I can to help the Pendolino over the hurdle.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 11, 2014, 10:25:54 am

Hello all,

I posted this on RMWEb in response to a point made by another contributor, but thought it sensible to mention here too:

I don't believe the "hardcore" of N gauge modern enthusiasts will be able to generate enough pledges to make the Pendolino happen alone, and we desperately need to spread the word.
 
Jason Shron will be at Warley on the Locomotion stand with test shots of the OO APT-E, and Mike Hale and I will be there too.  We will have lots of leaflets on N-Gauge layouts; but we also want to actively hand them to as many people as we can - if anyone cares to help us in this maybe for half an hour or an hour please let me know and we can assemble the "P-team" of volunteers!

cheers
 
Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Dr Al on November 11, 2014, 11:35:43 am
Ben,

Apologies if this has been asked and I've missed it, but when will the Kickstarter for this actually go live?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 11, 2014, 11:43:07 am
Hi Alan

We've submitted it for approval and we will let everyone know when it is live (hopefully soon!).

Best wishes

Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 11, 2014, 02:24:03 pm

Hello all,

I don't think he is on this forum, so I wanted to cross post what Jason Shron, the MD of Rapido, has posted on RM Web: that Rapido are seriously thinking about producing the Pendolino in N anyway, even if the Kickstarter campaign does not succeed.  I knew he was really excited about the project, but I don't think I realised he felt as strongly as this!!
 
However, he does say costs will be around 25% higher to allow for retailer margins etc - as an example the 9-car model without sound will be approaching £320 instead of the £255 we are planning.
 
So really, if you want a Pendolino and you want to save £65 then it still makes sense to pledge to the Kickstarter campaign, plus of course as I have said repeatedly (and apologies to those who've read this before!) if the Kickstarter campaign is successful then it creates a wonderful precedent for modellers coming together to get what they want, and not just being dictated to by the manufacturers, no matter how benevolent they may be!

As it is, Mike has already submitted the proposals to Kickstarter, so as far as we are concerned this is still the best route to be *sure* of a Pendolino. However, I must admit things seem to be moving very quickly on this!

cheers
 
Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 11, 2014, 02:50:19 pm
So now for my question then if I may please Ben.... Say the kickstarter campaign only received 400 pledges. this would not be enough to finance the whole build through Kickstarter.......

So.....would Rapido be willing to honour those original pledges at the lower price, if those people who pledged, then paid up front to Rapido directly....as they maybe/are still going to produce the model anyway, thus saving the 25% ??  - Worth a question to them, certainly as you would have a list of pledgers through kick starter... thus Rapido would get an upfront boost to aid production and those who pledged would gain the set at a discounted price?

I'm probably rambling gibberish here..
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 11, 2014, 03:11:33 pm
If the Kickstarter campaign does not reach its target then no money changes hands.

I would have thought it highly unlikely that Rapido would offer it at trade price to anyone other than traders. Ben and I are doing a lot of work (for nothing) because we want the project to succeed, I don't think you could expect a commercial enterprise to be the same.

Personally my gut feeling is that if the Kickstarter fails by a significant margin then Rapido are more likely to say, sorry but the demand isn't there. The Kickstarter campaign is not just a way of raising funds, but a way to be involved in the development and a way to indicate demand.

I think the key message from me is that if you want a Pendolino (and at a bargain price) then please, please back the Kickstarter campaign - if it gets funding you get a bargain and if it doesn't you lose nothing.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 11, 2014, 03:49:43 pm
Hi all,

I agree absolutely with what Mike says: assuming you want a Pendolino, or even if you don't and just want to support the Kickstarter concept, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by pledging.

Remember: no money changes hands unless we get to our full target, and you will only (sorry Paul) get the 25% discount if you get it via our Kickstarter; after all, as I have said before, your reward for backing the scheme is to get the model at, effectively, trade price.

Even if you don't want one, if we are successful Rapido have agreed not to produce their own for two years, and they have already indicated that when they do their price will be 25% more expensive: meaning at any time you could sell yours and be almost certain to recoup - and maybe fund another Kickstarter you really *do* want that is happening because of the successful precedent set here.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ChrisWV10 on November 11, 2014, 09:37:40 pm
In an earlier post it was mentioned that a short 5 car set was planned but that isn't an option in the poll? Also is any additional funding required for the extra 2 car add on packs to make an 11 (or 7) car set?

Cheers

C. :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 11, 2014, 10:48:38 pm

Hi Chris,

Details of all the pledges are at www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com)

The poll was merely to give indications as to likely interest, and to give NGF forum members a chance to express interest if they did not want to take part in the one on RM Web.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 12, 2014, 01:00:00 pm
I'm thinking some guerrilla marketing may be required...

Three come to mind (I can't find my guerrilla marketing book at the moment)
Flyers on car windscreens outside of shows
Put large adverts on your car and park near entrance to shows
Posting on non-railway model making forums (in general areas to avoid updset)

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on November 12, 2014, 01:21:17 pm
How about selling Flyers on eBay? Not sure if this controvenes ebay's policies but I'm sure that it can engineered so it's dubious and they probably won't care too much seeing a fair few of the things on there. You can make sure that the whole of the flyer is visible in the pictures and then if someone is stupid enough to buy it just make sure that it is not too expensive (and it clearly states it's a flyer not an actual Pendo) and you won't be out of pocket by mailing it off.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 12, 2014, 01:36:28 pm

Hi Brooksy,

Interesting idea. What about selling them in "packs" of 5 or 10 for a small amount - then winners could use either relist or hand them out at their clubs....

The other option is advertising. I know some people on this thread have offered to support us in this already.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 12, 2014, 02:56:36 pm
Anybody travelling on Penolinos?

Could leave some leaflets onboard.

Could someone hand out leaflets at the London termini?

Does Virgin have a magazine like they do on their aircraft?

Has a press release been sent to Virgin's PR dept?

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 12, 2014, 03:31:44 pm

Hi Michael,

We are in touch with Virgin about the project - I will ask them for some suggestions.

These are great suggestions though - thanks to all and keep them coming!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on November 12, 2014, 03:35:25 pm
If anyone is bound for Warley would they volunteer to place a flyer on each & every table in the refreshment area maybe once in the morning and again in the afternoon?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on November 12, 2014, 03:57:14 pm
Hi Ben,

Another question I have is: what if (fantasy land here) the goal is reached early (say in 1 month rather than 2) does the kickstarter stop immediately and the project starts (and funds are required) or does it stay open for the whole two months and more subscriptions are allowed?

Cheers,

Brooksy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NTrain on November 12, 2014, 04:01:17 pm
From what I have seen, they stay open for the full term.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on November 12, 2014, 04:20:59 pm
Hi Ben,

Another question I have is: what if (fantasy land here) the goal is reached early (say in 1 month rather than 2) does the kickstarter stop immediately and the project starts (and funds are required) or does it stay open for the whole two months and more subscriptions are allowed?

Cheers,

Brooksy

The project stays open and people can carry on pledging. Some projects go 100 or even 1000 of times over initial target. Many then offer stretch goals where by if such a level is reached a second product will be add or everyone gets a free extra item.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 12, 2014, 05:28:32 pm
Hello Brooksy,

Our pledges are linked to very specific items.  Whatever anyone pledges for is what they will get.  I believe that if we get pledges for, say, 1200 models then that is what will be manufactured and delivered.  However, I think it's very unlikely that we will be oversubscribed - I think getting the 800 orders we need will go right to the wire.

For simplicity we have avoided stretch goals or anything similar.  TBH I can't really think what a suitable suitable stretch goal might be.

If this is successful then I think Mike and I will feel we have set a precedent for other similar projects.  But I would warn against half a dozen Kickstarters launching at the same time - especially if they are targetting a similar, niche sector - because they will probably end up killing each other.

In terms of guerrilla marketing, we are getting some new leaflets printed up.  We are looking for volunteers to dish them out at Warley, at other shows, at their local clubs, etc.  PM me if you can help!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 12, 2014, 09:27:41 pm
other guerrilla marketing opportunities

I assume you will have this in the NGS magazine :)
other  model rail forums around the UK and world
get a presence at as many model railway exhibitions, area meetings, swap meets, heritage railways as you can
getting some traction with Virgin would be awesome
I'm trying to get an acceptable way to approach model shops :) to spin it being in their best interests
approach people who post trains on YouTube to give you a shut out... any NGF forum members do this? :)

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 12, 2014, 09:54:45 pm

Hi Zakalwe

I know a Model Shop in Scotland has had leaflets on display.  The motivation for retailers is that customers pledging for one are unlikely to want it in isolation.

Filling such an important gap makes the WCML so much more modellable, and will drive sales of Desiros, Voyagers, Class 66s, intermodal wagons, Dapol Catenary posts, etc etc.

I have posted on forums I have found but please:  If you're a member of a forum and haven't seen anything then *please* post on our behalf - we can't be everywhere and all it needs is a short note with the web address www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com) explaining what we're doing.  If anyone wants me to I can happily post a generic introductory note that could be used.

And swap meets and other expos are fantastic possibilities but Mike and I physically can't get to them all (not least because I work at weekend quite a bit, as my fellow NGS group members will verify!) so if anyone is going to a show, or a swapmeet, and is willing to distribute leaflets then again, please PM me and I will gladly send a couple of dozen or more...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 12, 2014, 10:17:44 pm

And swap meets and other expos are fantastic possibilities but Mike and I physically can't get to them all (not least because I work at weekend quite a bit, as my fellow NGS group members will verify!) so if anyone is going to a show, or a swapmeet, and is willing to distribute leaflets then again, please PM me and I will gladly send a couple of dozen or more...

cheers

Ben A.

I can vouch for that, Mrs C blames Mr A for all those late nights i've spent on HF2....

:D. There is light at the end of the tunnel now though!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 12, 2014, 10:52:12 pm
For those with any doubts about Kickstarter here is Andy Vaughan's N Gauge house project

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1176713488/a-house-in-your-hand-architectural-miniature-model (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1176713488/a-house-in-your-hand-architectural-miniature-model)

It had a much smaller target, but IMO is an excellent example of what can be achieved.

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on November 14, 2014, 04:43:17 am
Hi Ben, Mike,

i've just been reading the fine print on the website and I have found that as I live in the US I can't pledge on Kickstarter but need to buy one of the 200 Rapido funded models. That's a pain. As one of the original instigators of this on that other forum, I'd hate to find that the Kickstarter is short and that my pledges might have made a difference.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 14, 2014, 11:07:14 am
Hi John

In practical terms it seemed more sensible for Rapido to cover the market they knew best - hence why they are offering effectively the same deal in terms of price. We've also agreed that if Rapido have received a decent number of orders and the Kickstarter looks as though it will fall slightly short at the last minute that Rapido could "transfer" some of their funding to the Kickstarter.

We'll have a think about how people ordering through Rapido can get involved with the decision making etc as that should be fairly simple to organise.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 14, 2014, 11:37:03 am

Hi John,

I agree with Mike - however you pledge, it seems only fair that those who are supporting us get an equal say in any decisions that are made on a group basis.  I am sure we can sort something out.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on November 14, 2014, 01:57:25 pm
Thanks for that guys.

If the campaign is getting close but needs more pledges I may choose to have my son, who lives in Manchester, pledge on my behalf, we'll see.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 14, 2014, 10:05:19 pm
new marketing opportunity:

edit the class 390 Wikipedia page to include the kickstarter when it gets going?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 15, 2014, 12:13:57 am
Today has been a good day for the project - Virgin gave us the go ahead (and are very excited about the project!) and we also got the green light from Kickstarter!

So the Kickstarter can launch in time for Warley - watch this space!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 15, 2014, 12:45:13 am
Good news on the support from Virgin!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 15, 2014, 08:28:58 am
Hi all,

Yes, Virgin's marketing people seem very keen on the project:  they love the idea of a "baby pendo" in N to go with its OO big brother.  I think - refreshingly - they are very aware of the benefits of good PR with model railway enthusiasts and value our interest in them and what they do.

Once we go live they've offered to get behind us on Twitter and other Social Media, and asked if they could be more involved - saying there are plenty of enthusiasts on their own staff who would be eager to help us!

However, while all this support is wonderful I can't emphasise enough how difficult I think it will be to reach 800 pledges.  It's not that the Pendolino isn't a good deal - it's an amazing deal - but I think we have two real challenges:  (1) Overcoming the inherent reticence of British modellers and (2) getting the message out beyond the relatively narrow confines of the NGF, RM Web and the NGS.

To this end I've had thousands of flyers printed, and we want to distrubute these at Warley and anywhere else between now and mid January, when the pledging period ends.  We need to get rid of them! 

And after suggestions on here, and with a few of my own ideas, I have prepared a "Guerrilla Marketing Kit" with hints and tips on getting the word out.  If you'd like one please PM me and I'll put it in the post with some flyers.

We need volunteers from anywhere and even just taking some flyers to your local MRC or hobby shop would be welcome.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Maurits71 on November 15, 2014, 08:40:23 am
Ben, top job. I am one of I believe lots of people who have only read without comments, probably also one on the people who normally don't pre reserve stuff down to some bad experiences in the past, kickstarter is something new for me, looks scary but I am more convince now doing some research. so once live I will team up as well and I believe that a lot more people like me will join

M.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on November 15, 2014, 09:08:04 pm
Ben, top job. I am one of I believe lots of people who have only read without comments, probably also one on the people who normally don't pre reserve stuff down to some bad experiences in the past, kickstarter is something new for me, looks scary but I am more convince now doing some research. so once live I will team up as well and I believe that a lot more people like me will join

Maurits,

Glad to see you on board - you'll need a couple to call at your new super-sized station on the new layout!  :thumbsup:

Has this been talked about at all on the N Spoor Forum? Do you know anyone from the Netherlands that is interested? Maybe you can encourage a couple of people on there to sign up too.

Cheers,

Brooksy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 15, 2014, 09:33:35 pm
heres my old approach, not the best but it pulls 8 coaches :D

(http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/churcp/N%20GAUGE/th_674F69CE-3047-497E-9123-DB8C82F1FA08_2.mp4) (http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h407/churcp/N%20GAUGE/674F69CE-3047-497E-9123-DB8C82F1FA08_2.mp4)

Idle minds and all that !  Hope you all like my new layout!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Graham on November 15, 2014, 09:36:13 pm
can't wait to see mine arrive.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 15, 2014, 09:51:17 pm
Ben, top job. I am one of I believe lots of people who have only read without comments, probably also one on the people who normally don't pre reserve stuff down to some bad experiences in the past, kickstarter is something new for me, looks scary but I am more convince now doing some research. so once live I will team up as well and I believe that a lot more people like me will join

M.

Come down on the 14th and meet Ben in person have a chat and get an idea exactly of where the Pendolino project wants to go Maurits... You can assist me with my wiring too then once I've got you there ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 15, 2014, 09:52:18 pm
I have just retweeted the first Pendolino tweet to my followers. The Twitter handle is @baby_pendo

The more people that retweet the tweets, the more chance of getting others interested - although we will need more tweets as the kickstarter project progresses.

Might be worth having a FB page as well 

Ben and Mike - you are doing a superb job - many thanks  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 15, 2014, 10:10:03 pm
Thanks Jane!

I think Virgin are going to tweet it to their 145,000 followers once the Kickstarter goes live!

NGF exclusive - the Kickstarter will launch on Wednesday evening at 10pm and finish on Sunday 18 Jan at 10pm.  Countdown to launch on our website.

Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 16, 2014, 06:54:26 am
Thanks Jane!

I think Virgin are going to tweet it to their 145,000 followers once the Kickstarter goes live!

NGF exclusive - the Kickstarter will launch on Wednesday evening at 10pm and finish on Sunday 18 Jan at 10pm.  Countdown to launch on our website.

Cheers, Mike
Wow - that is great, thanks in advance @VirginTrains
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Maurits71 on November 16, 2014, 09:03:18 am

Come down on the 14th and meet Ben in person have a chat and get an idea exactly of where the Pendolino project wants to go Maurits... You can assist me with my wiring too then once I've got you there ;)

not a promise, but will try

Glad to see you on board - you'll need a couple to call at your new super-sized station on the new layout!  :thumbsup:

Has this been talked about at all on the N Spoor Forum? Do you know anyone from the Netherlands that is interested? Maybe you can encourage a couple of people on there to sign up too.

Cheers,

Brooksy

I will pm Ben en will do some promo in Holland on both N-spoor and the Benelux forum

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 16, 2014, 09:48:51 am

Hello all,

Picking up on Maurits's kind offer, while Mike and I are doing our best to cover the UK model railway forums we know about (NGF, RM Web, New Railway Modellers, Model Rail Forum, DEMU Forum) there is a limit to what we know or can do, especially when it comes to niche or foreign-language forums.

If anyone on here is a member of other forums, then please take the initiative on our behalf if you support this project and post links to our website ngaugependolino.com, or that of our partners Rapido Trains at rapidotrains.com, or mention our twitter feed @baby_pendo.  On our website there is also a countdown clock to when the Kickstarter page goes live, so please publicise this too.   

I can't emphasise enough how important it is to get the word out beyond the confines of our relatively small Uk online bubble, nor thank enough those who are supporting us by doing this!

And there are other particular tactics and ideas I have put together in our "guerrilla marketing kit" which people can collect at Warley from Jason of Rapido (on the Locomotion stand, behind the NGS stand) or from Mike or me, if you happen to see us!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on November 16, 2014, 09:56:07 am
Ben,

I have been hitting all of the facebook groups that are n gauge related and some that are not :) in the hopes of drumming up support.

I will keep posting links to the webpage and will occasionally throw up the Kickstarter page directly for people to go to directly.

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Maurits71 on November 16, 2014, 02:05:21 pm
So have done some promo in my best ' Dutch '  at the N-spoor and the Benelux forums.

M.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ditape on November 16, 2014, 04:09:02 pm
I have posted a entry on the Model Railway Group Forum.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 16, 2014, 05:59:00 pm

Hello all,

Thanks for the support!

Anyone who's registered at our website ngaugependolino.com should this evening have received issue #1 of our N Gauge Pendolino newsletter.

Although the Kickstarter pledge page won't go live for a couple of days, the newsletter includes a link to a preview page so you can see how it will look, all the pledge levels and other content and, if you wish, leave feedback for us.  There's still time to make small changes!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on November 16, 2014, 06:09:46 pm
Do we get a free Thunderbird with every set?? ( and a deodorant kit!!)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on November 16, 2014, 06:38:55 pm
Hi,

I just saw on the Website that both driving cars on the brakes will be powered. I like that idea as on my layout there are gradients to be negotiated BUT.
How's that going to work? I thought that banking on DC was pretty hard to do. Also on DCC isn't there a bunch of CV programming needed to get it to work properly?

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 16, 2014, 06:47:50 pm
Hi,

I just saw on the Website that both driving cars on the brakes will be powered. I like that idea as on my layout there are gradients to be negotiated BUT.
How's that going to work? I thought that banking on DC was pretty hard to do. Also on DCC isn't there a bunch of CV programming needed to get it to work properly?

Regards,

John P

Hi

Not had any issues with my Blue Pullman which has two motorised power cars and I didn't have to program any CVs other than the address in each car.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on November 16, 2014, 06:50:48 pm
Thanks Paul
Did you give both cars the same address or did you configure them as a consist?

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: austinbob on November 16, 2014, 06:53:03 pm
Hi,

I just saw on the Website that both driving cars on the brakes will be powered. I like that idea as on my layout there are gradients to be negotiated BUT.
How's that going to work? I thought that banking on DC was pretty hard to do. Also on DCC isn't there a bunch of CV programming needed to get it to work properly?

Regards,

John P

The Graham Farish Blue Midland Pullman has a powered car at each end. Works a treat on DC. If your put each powered car on the track, but not coupled, they track each other at very close to the same speed.

If I got the wrong end of the stick here about what you mean then apologies.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 16, 2014, 07:12:13 pm
Thanks Paul
Did you give both cars the same address or did you configure them as a consist?

John P

Hi

Both the same address as I wouldn't run either of them separately, there was no need to give them different addresses.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on November 16, 2014, 08:21:14 pm
Thanks for all the replies.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 16, 2014, 08:51:41 pm

Hi John,

I don't have a Blue Pullman, so I've been interested to read the experiences of those who have.

The twin power car idea is something Jason is very keen on.  I think it's because on US layouts gradients and helices are more common than they are here, and a self contained train such as a Pendo would need to get around any layout.

I quite like the idea.

cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 16, 2014, 09:07:05 pm
it works really well with a dapol HST with 2 powered power cars

when i was experimenting with gradients a while back a 2+8 dapol with one power car started to slow on a 3% and was sluggish on a 4% climb.     With 2 power cars it was up the 4% gradient with no loss of speed

the power cars were run separately on the layout at the same time....... for the record, the cross country one was faster than the FGW one :)   a quick bit of math showed the  difference was less than 5%
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 16, 2014, 09:49:19 pm
Ben.. I'll bring one on the 14th and you can marvel at its speed over my new bumpy track !! :doh:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on November 16, 2014, 10:10:22 pm
There is a noticeable speed variation between my Blue Pullman power cars on DC. One is consistently faster than the other. Having said that, the variation has not caused any running issues so far.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on November 17, 2014, 08:42:58 am
I'm always a bit skittish about the twin power car concept, since my dad bought home a brand new Farish HST in 1981, with twin power bogies.

Perhaps the trackwork wasn't the best but as soon as one stalled, the lightweight Mk3s were thrown all over the place!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bealman on November 17, 2014, 09:01:13 am
OK, even though I tend to think we're drifting off topic here, I'll just add this. I am not sure I'm a huge fan of powered locomotives at both ends, either.

I became the proud owner of a BP on Christmas Day last year, and while the power units seem to be evenly matched, the only layout that I have to run it on is my aging Beal & Castle Eden, designed for multiple operators and DC .

Of course, there is a problem when the train passes over from one block to the next.... the front car is on one controller, while the back one is on another controller. Unless both are perfectly matched, you get the scenario described in the last post!

And the BP costs too much to contemplate that.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 17, 2014, 09:04:36 am
I'm always a bit skittish about the twin power car concept, since my dad bought home a brand new Farish HST in 1981, with twin power bogies.

Perhaps the trackwork wasn't the best but as soon as one stalled, the lightweight Mk3s were thrown all over the place!

I'd imagine newer stock is a bit heavier and more stable. I unwittingly picked up a couple of old-style Farish MK1s on my recent UK trip (they were cheap, and at the time I had no idea what I was looking for), and they're more prone to derailing and otherwise playing up than the heavier, better built modern versions.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 17, 2014, 10:25:33 am
Rapido are confident that there won't be problems from motor mismatches. I think comparing with early 80s Farish HSTs is completely unfair!

Another consideration is that tooling two different chassis for each driving car adds to cost.

From our point of view we are relaxed about the solution used, but it is crucial that it runs well and is able to pull 11 cars easily.  It would be pointless us switching to a single power car only to find it struggled with 11 cars.

Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Vonzack on November 17, 2014, 12:28:05 pm
Well if the decision is to go with two power cars, then it makes the price even more appealing.

I would share a slight concern over differences between the power car motors from new and over their lifetime.

Not sure why Rapido would have to develop two different chassis though for a powered / unpowered version. Plenty of examples from Dapol where motors etc. have just been left out to create dummies, 66s, 67s, 86s and HSTs
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 17, 2014, 12:33:57 pm

Hello all,

Rapido are coming at this from the point of view where two power cars would be considered normal, and a single power car odd, since any manufacturer whose model did not cope with long gradients and gradients on curves (as in a helix) would be castigated in the press and online.

Section blocks etc are less relevant too because in the US now at least 50% of sales are DCC.

Having thought about it, and knowing a significant number of these models - if they're made - will be running with 11 cars makes me think they're probably right.

And as you say Vonzack, this makes the models even better value.  And with the sound versions you get DCC sound in *both* power cars too!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 17, 2014, 01:09:07 pm
Like the 'N Gauge Pendolino Fact for today' tweet :thumbsup: and notice that @VirginTrains are now following the N Gauge Pendolino pages :claphappy: This is getting very exciting now.

If we are getting newbies to N (that have never had a layout before) then they will need some help as to what to buy to get them started. Is is possible that Rapido could offer a starter set, e.g. with a Kato starter pack, so that they will have some track to play with?

I only mention Kato because their starter pack has curves capable of running their bullet trains and the track is so easy to clip together and also very robust. I realise that other track is more prototypical but maybe total newbies are not interested is that so much at the moment.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 17, 2014, 01:20:41 pm
Excellent idea with the Kato track - as a relative n00b I wouldn't be having this much fun without it. Though whether Kato would be happy with the arrangement is another question as they also manufacture the odd bit of European stock.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 17, 2014, 01:27:07 pm
We had thought of starter sets (and various other ideas), but the difficulty for Ben and I is that the more options we offer the more complicated it all starts to become. I think that we are talking about the difference between a project run by large manufacturers and a community-led crowdfunded project.

Virgin Trains are being incredibly supportive.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 17, 2014, 01:31:38 pm
PS I think that I speak for Ben as well when I say that we are really grateful for all the support we have had and that we are really excited about the launch of the Kickstarter campaign - it really can't come soon enough! There has been a lot of work behind the scenes to get where we are now and we really hope that it will be a success!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 17, 2014, 01:32:23 pm
We had thought of starter sets (and various other ideas), but the difficulty for Ben and I is that the more options we offer the more complicated it all starts to become. I think that we are talking about the difference between a project run by large manufacturers and a community-led crowdfunded project.

Virgin Trains are being incredibly supportive.

Cheers, Mike
I guess that might be the case. If the project takes off then Rapido could chance their arm afterwards. I can imagine that if a starter set appeared on one of the shopping channels it could really take off.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on November 17, 2014, 01:39:40 pm
I think there would be a market for "train sets", but they should be short sets only and at least for the UK market I would include Peco set-track components rather than Kato. Peco may have its faults but it is much more commonly used and far more easily available should the purchaser want to expand...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: kirky on November 17, 2014, 06:45:44 pm
I think the sound fitted option is an absolute steal. Two  sound fitted decoders installed for less than a hundred quid is unbelievable. I'm definitely signing up to that. Im curious as to which Decoders will be used.

I think it would be great if a dummy version were available. After all the thunderbird 57s have been around a long time. Having said that, I completely understand that limiting the options makes the project less complicated. Perhaps that is an option that Rapido would offer, and even then I  should  expect to pay 200ukp for an unpowered unit. That is still less than 23 quid a car which is cheaper than rrp for say a Dapol mk3.

My only problem is justifying a Pendo running through Northallerton. Does anyone have a record of one on the ECML?
And finally can I just express my sincere thanks to Mike and Ben for giving their time to free to this project.
Cheers
Kirky

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 17, 2014, 07:03:00 pm
Hi Kirky

Your wish is my command (well almost!) - running through Northallerton: http://youtu.be/-eIV8gfAo4k (http://youtu.be/-eIV8gfAo4k)

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: kirky on November 17, 2014, 07:10:31 pm
Nice one Mike.
Thank you very much.

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on November 17, 2014, 08:12:22 pm
Super excited...
if a 9 car set is 1.47 meters long, how long is an 11 car set... and then how long does my layout need to be to accommodate it with at least the 1/3rd rule... oh dear, the missus will be pleased :P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 17, 2014, 09:19:53 pm
Pendolino with a Mo' (https://www.flickr.com/photos/68628359@N04/15765465662)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 17, 2014, 09:36:45 pm
The other technical aspect I may have missed it and so I apologise for being a numpty :) :

 is there a recommendation for curve radius?

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on November 17, 2014, 10:05:07 pm

Hello there,

Running problems on tight radius track are usually a problem for long fixed wheelbase vehicles (eg 2-10-0 steam locos) or for vehicles where the bogie swing is impeded - for example by the lower edge of the bodyside or streamlining valances.

For the Pendolino, the bogies are of a fairly standard wheelbase and their movement is not impeded.

It's feasible that there could be an issue with two Pendolinos meeting on a really right curve at correct scale 6' spacing, but Setrack spacing is intentionally widened to avoid this.  And if you're still worried then just run one at a time!

Hi Zakalwe,

Hopefully 9" - see replies around number 100 onwards for discussion of this, culminating in Ben's reply above.

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 17, 2014, 10:30:10 pm
thanks - been travelling on business last couple of weeks kicking off 2 new projects and not kept totally up to date with all posts :)

sense of excitement growing
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 18, 2014, 01:42:11 am

Hi Mickster,

By my calculations the 11-car Pendolino will be around 1.79m long, or 5'11.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 18, 2014, 07:50:21 am
Its nearly Pendolino-day!

I have to admit to being rather excited about this project :)

My planned Royal Wootton Bassett layout will have overhead lines, so running a Pendolino doesn't stretch rule 1 too far...

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 18, 2014, 10:47:01 am
On t'other forum Robert Shrives has come up with a neat idea:

"Robert Shrives, on 18 Nov 2014 - 04:42, said: The pairs of intermediate cars suggested also allows a delivery train to be modelled when the 9 to 11 project was on."
 
Now that is a good idea which had never occurred to me! What traction and barrier wagons were used?

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on November 18, 2014, 11:41:07 am
Now that is a good idea which had never occurred to me! What traction and barrier wagons were used?

A 66 and 4-8 coaches seems to have been the standard formation. Barrier wagons were used but identifying them is beyond me I am afraid.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8330/8086399805_3ff7b017ff_b.jpg (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8330/8086399805_3ff7b017ff_b.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?lc=HVjzw9qxTcIF2B4ZYjp8EKKZ_4g4tYaPTSAOryjdM00&v=2GkKanIdvSc (https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?lc=HVjzw9qxTcIF2B4ZYjp8EKKZ_4g4tYaPTSAOryjdM00&v=2GkKanIdvSc)

http://www.djipix.com/view/gallery/images?category=1&subcategory=26# (http://www.djipix.com/view/gallery/images?category=1&subcategory=26#)

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAMQjxw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0ag12t1BTYQ&ei=dTBrVLKEEsjeavfRgaAK&bvm=bv.79908130,d.d2s&psig=AFQjCNEizK7pPlKNl7JuscpRK7x1HVt55A&ust=1416397295045722 (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAMQjxw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0ag12t1BTYQ&ei=dTBrVLKEEsjeavfRgaAK&bvm=bv.79908130,d.d2s&psig=AFQjCNEizK7pPlKNl7JuscpRK7x1HVt55A&ust=1416397295045722)

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on November 18, 2014, 11:47:56 am
Those look like PNA Wagons there is a kit available from the n gauge society. Have seen pictures of as little as 2 coaches behind an 86 and 4 behind a 66.

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 18, 2014, 12:00:46 pm

Hello all,

Spent the morning signing and packing guerrilla marketing kits.  Already quite a few takers - but any more please PM me with name and address and they'll go in the post!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18729.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18729)

Anyone who's already had flyers will be getting some new ones with the Rapido branding...!

The Kickstarter campaign lasts 60 days so there's plenty of time for marketing... but we need to keep the impetus up!
 
Also I am still on the lookout for volunteers to help us at Warley - got lots and lots of posters, leaflets and flyers - we just need people to hand them out, place them on tables in catering section etc.  And this time I will try to remember the Blu-tack for sticking up posters after the fiasco at TINGS!
 
cheers
 
Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 18, 2014, 12:09:18 pm
On t'other forum Robert Shrives has come up with a neat idea:

"Robert Shrives, on 18 Nov 2014 - 04:42, said: The pairs of intermediate cars suggested also allows a delivery train to be modelled when the 9 to 11 project was on."
 
Now that is a good idea which had never occurred to me! What traction and barrier wagons were used?

Cheers, Mike

What do these trains deliver and why are barrier wagons required?

Thanks
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 18, 2014, 12:11:48 pm
Hi Mike

They were used to deliver the additional 2 intermediate cars for the strengthening programme from 9 to 11-cars.

Some pics of delivery of Pendolino extra coaches - I particularly like the one with 86701 plus OCAs? I've found a nice mix of Colas 47, 56, 66 and 86.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8145255945_7a895309bf_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/dpLyPk)86701 at Cathiron (https://flic.kr/p/dpLyPk) by robmcrorie (https://www.flickr.com/people/55082908@N07/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7085/7307329792_08c9766cbc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/c8HYyG)66848 (https://flic.kr/p/c8HYyG) by Lewis Smith Photography (https://www.flickr.com/people/47745602@N06/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8142/7611792190_21892324fc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/cACqCo)47739 Lichfield TV 20-07-2012 (https://flic.kr/p/cACqCo) by Peter Bryant 56069 (https://www.flickr.com/people/39896969@N05/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8029/8017263888_cb19513483_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ddszeJ)66745 Bradwell (https://flic.kr/p/ddszeJ) by MKRail (https://www.flickr.com/people/83908967@N08/), on Flickr

Plus an EWS 66 hauling a dead Colas 56:

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8345/8178712541_b1ff7e8a9e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/dsJ3ic)66115 56087 1Nov12 Kings Langley IMG_0966 (https://flic.kr/p/dsJ3ic) by steveherts uk (https://www.flickr.com/people/8336963@N07/), on Flickr

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 18, 2014, 12:11:57 pm
Hello all,

The trains were delivering the additional pairs of coaches to strengthen the sets from 9 to 11 cars.  They'd been assembled in Italy I believe as the original production line in Birmingham was closed or unavailable.

The barrier wagons are, I think, continental flat wagons similar to these by Arnold:

http://www.hornbyinternational.com/en/arnold/3078-renfe-ks-loaded-with-cable-drums.html (http://www.hornbyinternational.com/en/arnold/3078-renfe-ks-loaded-with-cable-drums.html)

EDIT:  Looking at the photos in Mike's pots, it does appear the ribbed sides have either been plated or replaced with flatter sides.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: koyli55002 on November 19, 2014, 07:03:51 am
Good morning all
Found this page that may be of help - looks like you were spot on, Ben !  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 19, 2014, 08:00:03 am
Happy Pendolino-day!

Today's the day the Kickstarter campaign starts at 10pm GMT :)

Another promo suggestion - keep posting here about it to ensure its always in the last 30 postings displayed on the homepage.

I miss loads of postings because they're not on the homepage. There could be members here who don't know about this project yet because of this.

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: koyli55002 on November 19, 2014, 08:33:02 am
http://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IFB-Lfis-Pendolino-Barrier/i-xDW5Bbt (http://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IFB-Lfis-Pendolino-Barrier/i-xDW5Bbt)

Sorry - I forgot to include the page link in my last post
Too early in the morning !
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on November 19, 2014, 08:41:26 am
I miss loads of postings because they're not on the homepage. There could be members here who don't know about this project yet because of this.

I don't think I've looked at the homepage once yet since joining :worried:

I, like many others, have the forum itself saved as a bookmark so come straight to the category list - Welcome & Introduction, N Gauge Discussion, etc. From there I click on 'Show all unread posts' at the top where I can see all threads that have been updated :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on November 19, 2014, 08:44:58 am
More barrier vehicle shots here.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/6896769745/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/6896769745/in/photostream/)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/welshman_1951/8018680092/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/welshman_1951/8018680092/)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Vonzack on November 19, 2014, 09:20:33 am
I think they need some shorter shank couplings on this - http://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IFB-Lfis-Pendolino-Barrier/i-x2LRKGN (http://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IFB-Lfis-Pendolino-Barrier/i-x2LRKGN)

Alarm set for 10pm ;-)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 19, 2014, 09:32:51 am

Hello all,

On the DEMU forum someone has posted a link to a 3D print of a similar wagon to the barrier wagons but to correct (for us) 1:148 scale.

There do seem to be some differences in the brake gear but broadly speaking it doesn't look too far off.  I wonder if the creator of that model could be persuaded to produce a modified version?

Incidentally, is anyone on this forum going to Warley this weekend? 

Mike H will be on the DEMU stand B50 (hopefully armed with a laptop so people can pledge then and there) and Jason Shron will be on the Rapido/Locomotion  stand E22 (next to the NGS) with test shots of his OO APT-E.

Is there anyone here who could spare 20 mins to help with handing out leaflets?  We have layouts with leaflets on display, but it will be a real boost if we can be more proactive.  Mike and I have had the leaflets printed, but we physically will not be able to give them out to everyone!  If any forum members visiting could give out, say, 20 that would be a huge help - especially as the Collector types may not bother to look at N gauge layouts.

We will have plenty of leaflets on the stands mentioned above.  If you can help just come and ask for leaflets, or PM me.

Consider the crowd-funding goes beyond a simple financial pledge!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on November 19, 2014, 09:33:07 am
I think they need some shorter shank couplings on this - [url]http://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IFB-Lfis-Pendolino-Barrier/i-x2LRKGN[/url] ([url]http://gingespotting.smugmug.com/Wagons/I-TOPSCode/IFB-Lfis-Pendolino-Barrier/i-x2LRKGN[/url])


I don't know if it is just me having a problem but I cannot access the images you have posted on smugmug. I have tried IE and Chrome and in both cases the page loads but displays no image. Anyone else having a problem?  ???
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 19, 2014, 09:39:40 am
Matt

The photos are showing fine on my ipad.


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 19, 2014, 09:45:31 am
I have posted on the French equivalent of this Forum - Forum du N with links to the main site, the Kickstarter page which I will update tonight, and with a link to an SNCF Sybic locomotive hauling a delivery train of the strengthening coaches.

The topic is here:-

http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.net/t21622-alstom-virgin-pendolino-en-n-britannique (http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.net/t21622-alstom-virgin-pendolino-en-n-britannique)

The photo is here:-

http://tinyurl.com/qjawqkl (http://tinyurl.com/qjawqkl)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2014, 10:44:11 am
A possible stand in for the barrier wagons: http://shpws.me/vRr7 (http://shpws.me/vRr7)
It is not identical but might serve as a stand in or modify to suit - the main change seems to be the very distinctive U shape on the underframe is missing and the door(?) levers/ratchets are different.

From the DEMU forum - there are 4 of them in the fleet.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 19, 2014, 11:01:49 am
On t'other forum Robert Shrives has come up with a neat idea:

"Robert Shrives, on 18 Nov 2014 - 04:42, said: The pairs of intermediate cars suggested also allows a delivery train to be modelled when the 9 to 11 project was on."
 
Now that is a good idea which had never occurred to me! What traction and barrier wagons were used?

Cheers, Mike

That would be a very similar idea to what I suggested in post #164 on this very thread then (although admittedly it's hard to keep up with all the answers, which is a good sign!)

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Smiffy on November 19, 2014, 02:05:01 pm
Some pics of delivery of Pendolino extra coaches - I particularly like the one with 86701 plus OCAs? I've found a nice mix of Colas 47, 56, 66 and 86.


Thanks for this idea, provides another train for my repainted 86 & 47 to pull.

Cheers

Iain
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2014, 02:57:03 pm
I'm still wondering how long Ben can keep the Fact of the day tweets going on @baby_pendo! (And what today's fact will be.)

Less than 8 hours to go - it would be great to get some "early" pledges in to get us up and running.  I'm putting together a brief guide for people who are not familiar with Kickstarter which I'll post on here and our website.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 19, 2014, 03:13:38 pm
I'm still wondering how long Ben can keep the Fact of the day tweets going on @baby_pendo! (And what today's fact will be.)
For the twitter-impaired amongst us, does that translate into an actual link of some kind, or is some sort of app involved?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2014, 03:21:37 pm
@baby_pendo is our Twitter user name, which you should be able to view here: https://twitter.com/baby_pendo

I don't think you need to be registered to view it - just ignore Twitter's nagging for you to log in or register.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on November 19, 2014, 03:41:41 pm
Less than 8 hours to go - it would be great to get some "early" pledges in to get us up and running.  I'm putting together a brief guide for people who are not familiar with Kickstarter which I'll post on here and our website.

Indeed - exciting to see how fast it's going to take off. I'm going to do mine during the day sometime tomorrow so expecting at least 100 by that point! I'm going for an 11-car.

Thanks once again Mike and Ben for all your work!  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: rgsimulations on November 19, 2014, 03:44:17 pm
this is great news they are doing this in N gauge

do we know how many cars will be in a set and a rough price.  My layout is mainly around the 105,101,108 dmus etc however this is a perfect excuse to start a modern image layout when these are available
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 19, 2014, 03:54:26 pm
this is great news they are doing this in N gauge

do we know how many cars will be in a set and a rough price.  My layout is mainly around the 105,101,108 dmus etc however this is a perfect excuse to start a modern image layout when these are available


Hi

Depends on what you pledge for. Details are on the website www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com)

5 car
9 car
11 car

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on November 19, 2014, 03:54:53 pm
I forgot to ask: what are the postage costs going to be? I thought I read somewhere about setting different postage costs for different countries, but can't find it now, so what will they be? I can't find it on the website. It's not going to affect my pledge level (but might do for some) but maybe whether I order it from UK or Belgium.

Cheers,

Brooksy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: rgsimulations on November 19, 2014, 04:02:48 pm
this is great news they are doing this in N gauge

do we know how many cars will be in a set and a rough price.  My layout is mainly around the 105,101,108 dmus etc however this is a perfect excuse to start a modern image layout when these are available


Hi

Depends on what you pledge for. Details are on the website [url=http://www.ngaugependolino.com]www.ngaugependolino.com[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com[/url])

5 car
9 car
11 car

Cheers

Paul



oopss orry i didnt notice that
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2014, 04:09:23 pm
Prices and postage etc

5 car £195 (or £290 with DCC sound)
9 car £255 (or £350 with DCC sound)
11 car £285 (or £380 with DCC sound)

2 car additional pack £30 (for those who just wish to strengthen a 9 car set or run the delivery trains - see earlier in this thread).

P&P is £10 for one set to the UK and £15 to the rest of the EU - that may sound expensive but we have to buy in decent packaging and pay for some form of tracked and insured delivery on a package that we do not know the exact final dimensions/weight yet! More than one set will be slightly more so we've tried to put together some bundles but if there is nothing which suits what you are after then please just ask us - generally it will be just the highest P&P of any combination you want eg a 9 car and an 11 car would be £15 to the UK.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on November 19, 2014, 08:50:15 pm
Mike,

When I was running the Railcar Kickstarter, I was not allowed to charge postage for the UK, this had to included in the up-front cost. I was able to specify the additional postage required for overseas shipping.

Not sure if you have found a way to do it properly but worth checking as I would hate to see you £10 per set out of pocket over posting.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2014, 09:18:54 pm
Matt

Kickstarter recently changed their systems to allow variable P&P by country or region.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2014, 10:00:57 pm
You saw it here first folks, we're now live on Kickstarter at: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge)

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 19, 2014, 10:09:10 pm
That's my two units pledged. I reckon you might hit £10k on opening night  ;)

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 19, 2014, 10:16:12 pm
I've pledged for a 9 car DCC set :)

Just need to build my layout to run it on now and buy some DCC equipment!

I'd like to thank Ben and Mike for all their hard work put in to get the project this far.

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: SD35 on November 19, 2014, 10:17:17 pm
Fingers crossed for success...and an 11 car DCC version.  :beers:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on November 19, 2014, 10:17:34 pm
Hi

I'm in, fingers crossed now that the target is reached.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on November 19, 2014, 10:28:22 pm
I live in NZ, I just order through Rapido right?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 19, 2014, 10:28:43 pm
Hi all,

Early Days!  Big target!!  Fingers crossed!!!

Thanks to those who've already backed us!  20 pledges so far - just 780 to go!

If we could get up to £10,000 by Warley that'd be great.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 19, 2014, 10:32:06 pm
That shouldn't be too hard, you're currently at £9,830!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 19, 2014, 10:36:25 pm

Wow!  It's going fast!  OK then - £21,000 by Warley!!  That'd be 10% of the goal.

And according to Kickstarter, of the projects that have reached 20% of their funding goal, 81% were successfully funded.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on November 19, 2014, 10:47:46 pm
That's my two units pledged. I reckon you might hit £10k on opening night  ;)

JB

Yep, within 30 minutes!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 19, 2014, 10:54:37 pm
Well you've hit £10k and reached the 5% goal in the first 20 minutes so it looks like it's going well, and that's at 10PM on a weekday.

Just spotted this:

I live in NZ, I just order through Rapido right?

The Pendolino is not part of the Rapido catalogue and there's no guarantee it ever will be.

The only people who can be certain of acquiring one of these models are those who signed up for one during the 60-day Kickstarter campaign, and that's only if the campaign reaches its £210,000 target.

Rapido have only said they may sell it as a public release if they see sufficient demand for it, which is probably limited to two scenarios:

A - The Kickstarter campaign is successful, the 800-or-so models that people signed up for are built and sent to their new owners, and Rapido determine that there's still sufficient demand in the UK / worldwide for a second manufacturing run.

B - The Kickstarter campaign falls just short of the target, and Rapido determine that this shows that it would be a viable model to add to their line-up.

Even if one of the above two scenarios come about, not even Rapido can guarantee if or when it'll actually happen.

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on November 19, 2014, 10:59:02 pm
For non-EU people you can order through rapido as that will come out of the 200 units that they have funded. Best bet is to email Jason through their website and tell him you want to be put on that list.

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on November 19, 2014, 11:00:57 pm
yeah, I just emailed through kickstarter and they told me to just go through rapido, but then forward the confirmation details onto them so they can add me to the list :D

I hope we get enough through kickstarter :D I'd love for this to go forward!


[EDIT] I would recommend you log into kick starter and contact them through that so that it is all joined up. your rapido order and the account used to keep up to date with kickstarter[\EDIT]
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2014, 11:07:18 pm
Just to clarify - we are handling "pledges" through Kickstarter in the EU and Rapido are handling pre-orders for the rest of the world.
Everyone will pay the same amount at the till (apart from variations in P&P and your orders!).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 19, 2014, 11:08:41 pm
Ha that's a clever system, and helpful to know for anyone else who's outside of the EU. Guys, it may be worth mentioning that on the campaign page so that people don't think you're punishing them for living in sunnier climates  :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 19, 2014, 11:16:37 pm
Thanks JB - I've tried to clarify it on the campaign page!

If you wish to order more than one set (and there is not a bundle set up on Kickstarter) then please add together the costs and add on P&P as follows:

    2 sets P&P to the UK is £15 (not £20) or the EU £25
    3 sets P&P to the UK is £20 or the EU £30
    4 sets P&P to the UK is £25 or to the EU £35

If you send us a message once you have pledged to confirm which rewards you want it will save us emailing you later to ask!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pete @ EGLM on November 19, 2014, 11:23:32 pm
I'm in!
1x 11 car

Pete @ EGLM
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: rgsimulations on November 19, 2014, 11:54:17 pm
i am really sorry to sound thick but i am kinda knew to all this i am interested in one of these for my layout that i will be building to run modern image on how does this all work ie ordering one and pledging etc
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 12:01:08 am
Click on the Kickstarter link.

Pick the reward that you want (on the right hand side).

Fill in your details.

If by 18 Jan 2015 we reach our funding target then production goes ahead, if we don't reach the target no one gets charged a penny.

12 months later (if everything runs to schedule!) receive your model!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2014, 12:28:02 am

Mike,

Ha - that's the best and simplest guide to how it works I have seen yet!  I may have to borrow it for a poster!!

cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 20, 2014, 01:17:05 am
Congratulations on a great start to the Kickstarter. Good luck with the rest of the campaign.

I'm a bit confused by some mixed messages for the 'Rest of the World'...

Just to clarify - we are handling "pledges" through Kickstarter in the EU and Rapido are handling pre-orders for the rest of the world.
Everyone will pay the same amount at the till (apart from variations in P&P and your orders!).

The Pendolino is not part of the Rapido catalogue and there's no guarantee it ever will be.

The only people who can be certain of acquiring one of these models are those who signed up for one during the 60-day Kickstarter campaign, and that's only if the campaign reaches its £210,000 target.

Rapido have only said they may sell it as a public release if they see sufficient demand for it, which is probably limited to two scenarios:

A - The Kickstarter campaign is successful, the 800-or-so models that people signed up for are built and sent to their new owners, and Rapido determine that there's still sufficient demand in the UK / worldwide for a second manufacturing run.

B - The Kickstarter campaign falls just short of the target, and Rapido determine that this shows that it would be a viable model to add to their line-up.

Even if one of the above two scenarios come about, not even Rapido can guarantee if or when it'll actually happen.

Kickstarter has a pledge target of £210,000, equivalent to about 820 9-car sets.

Rapido says 1000 models need to be 'ordered', 200 of which they are funding.

So, my question is, which target will mean the project moves forward? £210,000 or 1000 models? I assume it is the Kickstarter target. Or does Rapido also need their 200 to be met for the project to proceed?

On the basis that I assume it is the Kickstarter target that will determine success, i have pledged on the Kickstarter, hoping to help meet that target. Once the project delivers, I am confident that my daughter will take delivery in the UK and post my 11-car set to me (if I am still in the US in 15 months' time).
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 02:28:23 am
Rapido were prepared to take the risk on their 200, so it is the Kickstarter target that is crucial.  The reality is that if we can't get pledges for the equivalent of 800 9-car sets then project will not happen.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on November 20, 2014, 05:52:27 am
Just had a look at the kickstarter page - if I want a combination of items that isn't one of the pledge options, can I pledge several times to get the combination I want?

Cheers Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 20, 2014, 07:14:11 am
Just had a look at the kickstarter page - if I want a combination of items that isn't one of the pledge options, can I pledge several times to get the combination I want?

Cheers Jon  :)

See post #309 above. I think you can only pledge the total amount once. Do this and advise the project sponsors by email of the breakdown of your pledge.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on November 20, 2014, 07:19:12 am
Just had a look at the kickstarter page - if I want a combination of items that isn't one of the pledge options, can I pledge several times to get the combination I want?

Cheers Jon  :)

Add up the cost of the pledges you want, add postage, pick a pledge level then change the amount of cash you are pledging and then select pledge. You will be asked later if the project is successful what you want. I would make a note of it somewhere their is an option on Kickstarter, but can't thing how to get to it at the moment.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on November 20, 2014, 07:28:50 am
20K !!!!! OH YEAH!!!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 20, 2014, 07:41:37 am
Pledged for a nine-car set - fingers crossed we get to the target, 18th Jan is not that far away :worried:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on November 20, 2014, 07:47:38 am
Not my era, not something that I wanted....I love them in the flesh....  The website has won me over and I hope to be able to buy the DCC Sound fitted unit. :doh: ;D

Well done for talking me into it Ben and Mike! >:(      :thumbsup: :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 20, 2014, 08:02:45 am
10% reached in less than 10 hours :)

Momentum needs to be kept up!

Could a Pendolino gift card be produced?

I'm thinking that a loved-one could pledge as a Christmas present for you and a card would be nice to receive on the day. Like gift subscriptions to magazines.

When you post on non-model railway/non-N Gauge forums/groups, add a link to the Kickstarter in your message footer for wider coverage.

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Nigel Cliffe on November 20, 2014, 08:05:26 am
At several places in the thread people have asked "which sound decoders".  I've not seen an answer.

It makes a difference to some people, certain answers would lead to "thanks, I'll save the money and fit my preferred decoders later", other answers would lead to "wonderful, I'll pay extra for the sound fitted option".   As the money is being sought, knowing what you're buying is important.


There is a significant difference between the performance (both sound and motor control) of a LokSound V4 Micro at around £100 retail per decoder, and a MRC or Digitrax sound decoder at £50-£60 retail in the UK. 

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jameswgm on November 20, 2014, 08:48:52 am
Just pledged for 2 9 Car units. Let's hope people are going to commit. Good start so far :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 10:27:01 am
At several places in the thread people have asked "which sound decoders".  I've not seen an answer.

It makes a difference to some people, certain answers would lead to "thanks, I'll save the money and fit my preferred decoders later", other answers would lead to "wonderful, I'll pay extra for the sound fitted option".   As the money is being sought, knowing what you're buying is important.


There is a significant difference between the performance (both sound and motor control) of a LokSound V4 Micro at around £100 retail per decoder, and a MRC or Digitrax sound decoder at £50-£60 retail in the UK.

Apologies we do sometimes miss some questions! The honest answer is I am not 100% sure - the APT-E is using a "custom ESU Loksound" (which I assume means a Loksound Select), but we will check with Rapido and let everyone know ASAP.  If all else fails we can ask Rapido on Saturday at Warley.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: free debt man on November 20, 2014, 10:49:04 am
Pledged for an 11 car!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 20, 2014, 11:29:53 am
You also have a pledge from me for a mismatch of parts :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on November 20, 2014, 11:47:47 am
Pledged for an 11-car set. Totally out of my chosen era, but who knows I may build another layout just to run it. But my main reason is to support this project and hopefully make the crowd funding a success for n-gauge.

Good luck everyone, and a huge thanks to Ben and Mike.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2014, 12:11:51 pm

Hello all,

Well we can't complain about the response so far!  Amazing to be at nearly £30k already.  That's the first car and a half funded already!

Huge thanks to all who have pledged - and especially those who don't want a Pendo that much but can see the potential if we can make this one fly. 

My message to those people is:  You will receive a beautiful model, even if it's not the model you want - and if you want to ebay it the day after it arrives then please do so with our blessing!  You should do OK - the model will have generated enormous pre-launch publicity and Rapido have undertaken not to produce another run for at least two years - and it's your support at this stage that is crucial!

In the meantime I would urge anyone who supports this project to see if they can find time to help us in other ways.  We have an enormous chance to reach thousands of people this weekend at Warley. 

Several layouts - including Banbury and Hinksey Yard - will have the flyers on display, but there will be thousands of people at the show who might not see them but could be potential pledgers.  We need to reach as many as we possibly can!

Mike and I will be there both days but are likely to have to spend quite a bit of that time on the stands (B50 for DEMU, E22 for Rapido/Locomotion) so if any forum members are planning to attend Warley please please come by, take a handful of flyers and just hand them to people at the show, or place them on catering tables.  We will have posters too - are there any volunteers to help us stick up some of these around the place first thing on Saturday?

If you look at the wider Kickstarter website it's clear that the projects that succeed are those that become more than just a scheme to make something: they are a collective dream, a shared goal.  So now, as a team, a community, let's take this out there together and drive on!

The excitement is building, the potential is there.  Let's make it happen!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 12:19:32 pm
After Ben's rousing comments I feel we should all stand and sing an anthem - I'm just not sure what the appropriate anthem is for a Pendolino project!  :D

Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on November 20, 2014, 12:21:17 pm
"Like A Virgin"? :D


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on November 20, 2014, 01:02:01 pm
OK - I'm in - taking it up to 80 - not quite the optimistic 100 I suggested yesterday, but almost! Now keeping everything crossed for a successful outcome.

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on November 20, 2014, 01:19:47 pm
Done - up to 83 now!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on November 20, 2014, 01:42:03 pm
Just read on the Twitter site that in a 9 car set only the center and pantograph are not powered that means 6 powered units THAT can't be right surely.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on November 20, 2014, 01:49:43 pm
That's the real one, Bob!  :)

I've added a couple of links from the Electra homepage and What's New pages to spread the word.

www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk (http://www.electrarailwaygraphics.co.uk)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 20, 2014, 01:51:00 pm
Just read on the Twitter site that in a 9 car set only the center and pantograph are not powered that means 6 powered units THAT can't be right surely.
Presumably that's the 1:1 model they're talking about.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 01:57:47 pm
Just read on the Twitter site that in a 9 car set only the center and pantograph are not powered that means 6 powered units THAT can't be right surely.
Bob

It is right for the real thing - they use distributed traction (same as the new Eurostar Velaros IIRC) instead of two great power cars you have traction motors on most coaches (you can tell from the M in the coach designation).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on November 20, 2014, 02:10:26 pm
Done - up to 83 now!

The numbers are steadily increasing then. I registered about 1ish and was #81.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on November 20, 2014, 03:17:13 pm
Just pledged for a 9 car (I'm number 85)
Completely out of era but I want this to succeed in the hope future projects will be more to my taste.
Please don't tell anyone that Newportnobby has pledged for a multi coloured worm :zippedmouth:
I'll never hear the end of it (especially as it won't be sound fitted :-X)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mokjumbo on November 20, 2014, 03:18:51 pm
Can`t afford it,wrong area,wrong era.I`m IN!Hope it makes it.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 20, 2014, 04:23:43 pm
As of about 18 hours into the Kickstarter...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18773.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18773)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 04:24:54 pm
I like the Blue Peter style target chart!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: scotsoft on November 20, 2014, 04:35:40 pm
I like the Blue Peter style target chart!

Cheers, Mike

....and not a milk bottle top in sight  :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: DCCDave on November 20, 2014, 05:42:06 pm
I like the Blue Peter style target chart!

Cheers, Mike

Does this mean that the model will be made from sticky backed plastic?

Sorry...couldn't resist.  ::)

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 20, 2014, 06:10:39 pm
I like the Blue Peter style target chart!

I was somewhat disappointed to see that Microsoft hadn't included an actual thermometer chart style! :-[  But a bit of tinkering got it close enough.

Already one sixth   of the way to the total as I type... at 35,099.  The current average pledge is almost 370 quid.

You guys have done a great job in getting the excitement level up.  I have the Kickstarter page open on my desktop, willing that total to rise.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 06:17:35 pm
I have the Kickstarter page open on my desktop, willing that total to rise.

Ahem - me too! It is very distracting when I am trying to get some work done!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2014, 06:28:37 pm

Hi all,

Here's a figure for you:  Our funding target is £210k - if we reach that target, this *will* happen.  We've always talked about needing to fund 800 9-car Pendolinos with £255 average pledge.  However, with 95 pledgers the average pledge level so far is just under £370 - if this rate holds, we would only need 570 pledges

Making it even more achievable!

Let's keep the momentum going - please call or email anyone you know who collects or models and mention it to them.

Incidentally, following coverage in the model railway press we had one person write to Mike Hale asking how he could take part as he does not have the internet.  We suggested he ask a family member to pledge on his behalf!  I wonder if they have?

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 20, 2014, 07:01:01 pm
Only a thought Ben, is it worth taking a proper pc setup to Warley so people can pledge on the DEMU stand whilst they are there?


Make a big totaliser with lights etc.... Hmm now theres a thought!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 07:06:55 pm
Paul,

If (and that is a big if!) the wifi (or a decent mobile signal in a big metal cage/room) works OK then that should be possible - I will have a laptop and tablet with me.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: steam-driven boy on November 20, 2014, 07:09:02 pm
Hi,

I ran this past Ben earlier today, he suggested I post it as something that can maybe be copied and resized,attached to bags or whatever by anyone helping promote the project:
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
It would probably be a good idea that you have backed the project I guess...

Regards, Gerry  8)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on November 20, 2014, 07:16:49 pm
Someone has pledged for 4 9-car rakes (and that's at least, they might have some 11 car rakes too). Makes me jealous. I hope they post some pictures when they get them all lined up...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 20, 2014, 07:18:51 pm
100 Pledges!
£37,284


This is so exciting, I can't begin to imagine how Ben and Mike must be feeling!

best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 07:29:33 pm
Someone has pledged for 4 9-car rakes (and that's at least, they might have some 11 car rakes too). Makes me jealous. I hope they post some pictures when they get them all lined up...

Correct - the backer numbers for each individual pledge are a bit out as they depend on exactly which pledge you choose.  You can in theory pick the pledge for 1 x 9 car set (or even no reward) but pledge for the amount for anything.  Provided we know what you want you will get the right reward!

There are a couple of pledges that I haven't worked out what they are for yet, but we'll be in touch with people to confirm any mysteries!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2014, 07:47:36 pm


Hi all,

It's certainly been an exciting day!  I'm genuinely thrilled and awed by the response do far - 100 backers in less than 24 hours!

But following Warley and over the coming weeks if things go according to plan we will see a new type of backer come to the a Kickstarter site - one who's heard about us there, or in the press, but doesn't know about NGF or the rest.

I've been thinking about this, and I thin it would be fantastic if potential backers just coming to the Kickstarter site could get a feel for the warmth, enthusiasm and excitement we have here.

So, if and when you pledge, or if you already have, I wondered if you would take a couple of minutes to add something to the comment section on the Kickstarter pages.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on November 20, 2014, 07:58:53 pm
In no way do I want to pour cold water on all the enthusiasm but as soon as I'd pledged I thought "I hope the site is VERY secure as there are now a lot of folks card details out there and, let's face it, banks/politicians etc have a habit of losing such data" :worried:
I realise nothing can be guaranteed and that the site is probably as safe as any other website where you give such details but I would recommend people use their credit card as extra protection :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ColinH on November 20, 2014, 08:00:09 pm
Paul,

If (and that is a big if!) the wifi (or a decent mobile signal in a big metal cage/room) works OK then that should be possible - I will have a laptop and tablet with me.

Cheers, Mike

Mike

Don't think there will be a problem with the Wifi signal at NEC. I have worked at Crufts and a dog show in December for the last 5 years and there has never been a problem getting the credit card machines to connect to the system. Hope that helps you get even more backers.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 08:03:07 pm
Mick

Kickstarter processes all the card details (we don't see any of that, in fact at this stage we don't get much info about you at all - that comes later if we reach our target).  Kickstarter has handled over $1.4 billion in pledges (albeit not all reached their funding targets) - that doesn't mean they are any better than anyone else out there, but they should be no more risky!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2014, 09:44:48 pm

Hello all,

Just a quick thank-you to all those who've added a comment to the Kickstarter page.   Makes it feel a lot more interactive and welcoming for those who aren't fortunate enough to be members of this forum!

Approaching 24 hours in now... my hope of getting to 20% funded* (£42k) is getting closer and closer.... possibly even before Warley!

cheers

Ben A

*In case I haven't already bored you with it, my favourite Kickstarter stat is that 88% of projects that reach the 20% level go on to reach their main target.....  hence my obsessing about it!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 20, 2014, 10:09:32 pm
After Day 1...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18777.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18777)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 20, 2014, 10:25:02 pm
*I haven't already bored you with it, my favourite Kickstarter stat is that 88% of projects that reach the 20% level go on to reach their main target.....  hence my obsessing about it!
My favourite stat is that 100% of previous Kickstarter projects I've backed have been successful, so hoping that will continue!!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 20, 2014, 10:29:08 pm
We are now over £40K. Bring forth the Trumpets

:D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2014, 10:42:19 pm

No quite within 24 hours of launch but still pretty amazing....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18778.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18778)

And Michael's stat is the best of all....

There is a buzz building... so if you haven't pledged yet then join us, and if you have then thanks - but please maintain the momentum, keep spreading the word and if you send me your address I'll send a guerilla marketing pack!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 20, 2014, 10:47:34 pm
Chaps,

I notice there doesn't seem to have been an e-mail sent out via the website / newsletter platform, are you waiting until after Warley to give new recruits time to sign up to it before sending something out?

As it stands (and unless I've missed something), people who aren't actively following the thread or your twitter account will not be aware that the KS campaign has started.

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 10:50:53 pm
Hi JB

We let people in Newsletter #1 when the Kickstarter would begin (and gave them the preview link which intelligently forwards you to the live project now).  I'm reluctant to send out too many newsletters (Ben has to think cheesy phrases for them!) but we will be sending out issue 2 after Warley.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 20, 2014, 10:50:53 pm
Just wondering - will you be informed by Rapido about orders placed directly there?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 20, 2014, 10:52:37 pm
Mr Squid

For the moment it doesn't matter, but we will make sure that people who support the project through Rapido get the same access to previews and rights to vote on set numbers etc as everyone else!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2014, 10:57:19 pm
Hi JB,

Great post - you're 100% right.  That's why in post after post I am asking people who support us spread the word!

Anyone:

Feel free to lift any of the images I post (they're either mine or I have cleared them for use), mention us to friends, on your own social media/facebook/twitter, in other forums etc.  If you're at Warley come and find us, grab some flyers and hand them out.  If not, PM me and I will post our guerrilla marketing kit with hints and flyers to you and please, hand them out at shows you go to, or ask your local model shop to display them, or even just stuff them in rail and model railway mags in newsagents!!!

We have got articles coming up in the next issues of magazines explaining the change of partner to Rapido and hopefully showing continued progress too.

Rapido are also considering some advertising too.

But as I have said before, this is a crowd-sourced venture which means while most basically we want your pledges, we also want your support and want you to be a part of this - every flyer you give away, every person you mention this to, is a potential backer and brings the prospect of YOU getting the model YOU want nearer!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 20, 2014, 11:12:39 pm
got the 4 people i know at work who model n and are interested enough to take a look, 2 already pledged, 1 will do once he has senior stakeholder approval mine to come early next week when the new credit card arrives :)

And it's great to see a thread on here with such passion , enthusiasm and engagement.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 20, 2014, 11:54:37 pm
It may be worth sending out an "update" newsletter in a week or so.

Not only will new people have had time to sit down with the flyers and sign up to the newsletter, but it'll also remind people who haven't had the time or have simply forgotten to check back to see if the campaign had started. By that time the 20% / £42k barrier should be quite far behind us and it'll give the momentum a nice little boost.

I wish I could help spread the word over here but N seems to have very little support in France, and the one N-related forum I signed up to refused to fully activate my account unless I put my real address in my profile... (an illegal practice in France as any such list has to be declared to the data protection body, and in any case there's no chance I'd add my address to what would basically be a list of houses to break into for anyone wanting to acquire a new collection).

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 21, 2014, 12:09:04 am
Unfortunately I can't pledge directly at the moment, however I see the relevant Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_390#Models) has just been updated with a mention of the project.  ::)

Is there an official quote/tweet from Virgin supporting the project which can be cited?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 21, 2014, 09:18:56 am
Unfortunately I can't pledge directly at the moment, however I see the relevant Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_390#Models) has just been updated with a mention of the project.  ::)
Well never mind: "Reverted good faith edits by Railsquid (talk): If it's only a kickstarter it's not notable.". Worth a try, I suppose.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on November 21, 2014, 09:33:09 am
Question, in the marginally possible chance that we meet the kickstarter goal in advance of the 60 days time frame, are rapido able/willing to start work early? somethings like the scans and tooling don't rely on total end figures so much so they could start the work knowing they have at least the numbers they need? I'm just thinking the time frames would be easier to keep if we started early? so far, we're over 20% done and we still have warely to go :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 21, 2014, 10:34:36 am
I wish I could help spread the word over here but N seems to have very little support in France, and the one N-related forum I signed up to refused to fully activate my account unless I put my real address in my profile... (an illegal practice in France as any such list has to be declared to the data protection body, and in any case there's no chance I'd add my address to what would basically be a list of houses to break into for anyone wanting to acquire a new collection).

JB


I have started a topic on the Forum du N and plan to add regular updates to get the topic on the front page as often as I can. Included links to the Pendolino coaches being hauled through France.

http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.net/t21622-alstom-virgin-pendolino-en-n-britannique (http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.net/t21622-alstom-virgin-pendolino-en-n-britannique)

http://tinyurl.com/qjawqkl (http://tinyurl.com/qjawqkl)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 21, 2014, 10:56:36 am
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fle-forum-du-n.forumotions.net%2Ft21622-alstom-virgin-pendolino-en-n-britannique&sandbox=1

Translated to english, I love the backwards translation :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 21, 2014, 11:04:23 am
Question, in the marginally possible chance that we meet the kickstarter goal in advance of the 60 days time frame, are rapido able/willing to start work early? somethings like the scans and tooling don't rely on total end figures so much so they could start the work knowing they have at least the numbers they need? I'm just thinking the time frames would be easier to keep if we started early? so far, we're over 20% done and we still have warely to go :D

I have been sworn to secrecy  :-X





Oh go on then....yes. 

So please get as many people to sign up early as you can!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 21, 2014, 11:08:09 am
Paul

Thanks for that. I liked the backwards translation. The main errors relate to railways specific terms like "caisses" for bodyshells rather than "cases". and "rames" for trainsets rather than "reams".

Reminds me a bit of the translation I found on a German soccer site which had translated the English "sick as a parrot" rather literally.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 21, 2014, 11:36:58 am
I see we have hit 20% now, thats really moving, it just needs to keep up momentum..!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 21, 2014, 11:55:42 am
I wish I could help spread the word over here but N seems to have very little support in France, and the one N-related forum I signed up to refused to fully activate my account unless I put my real address in my profile... (an illegal practice in France as any such list has to be declared to the data protection body, and in any case there's no chance I'd add my address to what would basically be a list of houses to break into for anyone wanting to acquire a new collection).

JB


I have started a topic on the Forum du N and plan to add regular updates to get the topic on the front page as often as I can. Included links to the Pendolino coaches being hauled through France.

[url]http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.net/t21622-alstom-virgin-pendolino-en-n-britannique[/url] ([url]http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.net/t21622-alstom-virgin-pendolino-en-n-britannique[/url])

[url]http://tinyurl.com/qjawqkl[/url] ([url]http://tinyurl.com/qjawqkl[/url])


Yep well that's the forum I was talking about. The admins didn't bother replying when I explained why I wasn't comfortable disclosing my address and explained that they weren't actually allowed to collect such information. My introduction thread even got deleted despite apparent interest from other members in what I was modelling...

Going back on topic... THAT'S 20% REACHED!

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 21, 2014, 12:02:33 pm

Hi all,

Yes, 20% is a very significant milestone to reach, for reasons previously explained.

Mike,

Thanks for posting that link on the French forum.  The translations are hilarious, but from what I can see it has made several people aware of the project, and generated at least one pledge.  This is *exactly* how we need to keep spreading the word....

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on November 21, 2014, 03:17:13 pm
does anyone speak enough german to post here??

http://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/ (http://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/)

http://www.1zu160.net/scripte/forum/forum_show.php?id=271744 (http://www.1zu160.net/scripte/forum/forum_show.php?id=271744)

Nick R ( 11 car + sound - please don't tell SWMBO!)



Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 21, 2014, 03:34:15 pm
does anyone speak enough german to post here??

[url]http://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/[/url] ([url]http://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/[/url])

[url]http://www.1zu160.net/scripte/forum/forum_show.php?id=271744[/url] ([url]http://www.1zu160.net/scripte/forum/forum_show.php?id=271744[/url])

Nick R ( 11 car + sound - please don't tell SWMBO!)


Mal schauen, ob ich mich da anmelden kann... Ich sage bescheid, sobald etwas vorliegt.

Bis bald!

Euer Schienentintenfisch
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 21, 2014, 03:39:18 pm
does anyone speak enough german to post here??

[url]http://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/[/url] ([url]http://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/[/url])

[url]http://www.1zu160.net/scripte/forum/forum_show.php?id=271744[/url] ([url]http://www.1zu160.net/scripte/forum/forum_show.php?id=271744[/url])

Nick R ( 11 car + sound - please don't tell SWMBO!)


Mal schauen, ob ich mich da anmelden kann... Ich sage bescheid, sobald etwas vorliegt.

Bis bald!

Euer Schienentintenfisch

Waiting for my registration to be approved...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on November 21, 2014, 03:44:46 pm
Show off!  ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 21, 2014, 03:48:31 pm
Show off!  ;)
日本語のフォーラムも探していたんですが、なかなかないみたいです。日本はBBS式ばっかりで、どうしようもない。

 :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on November 21, 2014, 03:52:43 pm
Show off!  ;)
日本語のフォーラムも探していたんですが、なかなかないみたいです。日本はBBS式ばっかりで、どうしようもない。

 :D

The Mods are going to have fun with that one :confused2: :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on November 21, 2014, 03:57:29 pm
Show off!  ;)
日本語のフォーラムも探していたんですが、なかなかないみたいです。日本はBBS式ばっかりで、どうしようもない。

 :D

Wash your mouth out!

Only kidding...that was the main reason for the JNS thread; Japanese modellers (and those of us who model Japanese trains) are suckers for this sort of thing, what with the Bullets. My Japanese is probably as good as your Aramaic, so I'll stick with the English language fora!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 21, 2014, 04:04:04 pm
I did look around to see if there are any Japanese forums, partly because it would be interesting for me anyway, but I came to realise that in almost 20 years of dealing with the Japanese internet I'd never actually seen an active public forum of this kind. There do seem to be a couple buried behind paywalls of the old "walled garden" ISPs but in general the closest you get are a bunch of semi-anonymous BBS-style systems, which have more in common with something like Twitter. (If anyone does know of reputable Japanese-language railway modelling forums I'd be glad to know about them of course);
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 21, 2014, 04:25:51 pm
Trials are underway of my homemade self adhesive vinyl sticker for tomorrow. Seems to work OK on my M&S sweater and is still in place after a couple of hours. Whether it is rucksack-proof and sweaty-armpit-proof remains to be seen. Hopefully it will attract someone enough to ask for details. I shall have a big one on my front and back, and a couple of small ones as spares or for my sleeves. Sort of mobile advertising hoarding. Will I get past the gate security?

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18789.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18789)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Caz on November 21, 2014, 04:52:21 pm
Show off!  ;)
日本語のフォーラムも探していたんですが、なかなかないみたいです。日本はBBS式ばっかりで、どうしようもない。

 :D

The Mods are going to have fun with that one :confused2: :hmmm:

Google translates it as "And I was looking for also of Japanese forum, but it seems not quite. Japan is just BBS formula, helpless."  so we can let it stand.    ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on November 21, 2014, 07:17:40 pm
126
Backers

£46,789
pledged of £210,000 goal

57
days to go

Heading to 25%!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Caz on November 22, 2014, 01:32:12 pm
Hornby have a Pendolino on pre-order, I wonder if this might have been Arnold's next shrink ray from Hornby.   :hmmm:

Latest £47,179 pledged = 22%
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 22, 2014, 05:04:20 pm
Hornby have a Pendolino on pre-order, I wonder if this might have been Arnold's next shrink ray from Hornby.   :hmmm:

Latest £47,179 pledged = 22%

If that was the case I'm sure they'd actually announce it to the world before opening it up for pre-orders, who's going to order something without knowing what scale it is? The standard OO trainset in Alstom livery is available pre-order, could that be what you've seen?

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Caz on November 22, 2014, 05:45:18 pm
It's the horribly oversize gauge but it is a Virgin Trains Pendolino, see http://www.hornby.com/virgin-trains-pendolino-train-set-1.html (http://www.hornby.com/virgin-trains-pendolino-train-set-1.html)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on November 22, 2014, 06:05:37 pm
Just in for two nine cars.   Apparently we're all also getting a T-Shirt too!!   ???

Cheers  Jon  :)

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 22, 2014, 06:23:20 pm
It's the horribly oversize gauge but it is a Virgin Trains Pendolino

I'm not sure what you're getting at. That's the Alstom set I was referring to, but it's the same model that's been out for seven years. It's only on pre-order because it's in a new livery.

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Caz on November 22, 2014, 07:58:27 pm
It's the horribly oversize gauge but it is a Virgin Trains Pendolino

I'm not sure what you're getting at. That's the Alstom set I was referring to, but it's the same model that's been out for seven years. It's only on pre-order because it's in a new livery.

JB

Shows what I know about 'orribly oversized" then, I just thought that as Hornby have the model, Arnold might have thought of it as there next venture into UK N gauge.  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 22, 2014, 08:02:32 pm
Hi all,

I'd love Arnold to do a Pendolino - if they announce it we could easily halt the Kickstarter and walk away and all order one from them.  No one has actually handed us any money after all, so no one will have lost anything!

Or, if the Kickstarter succeeds and then they announce one we could just continue and backers would get their 9-car Pendolinos for £255 in a year and Arnold's model would take - going by the Brighton Belle - how long?   And how much would it cost?

Having said all that, I am pretty sure that Arnold are not about to announce a Pendolino - not least because that was the first question I asked Virgin and they were adamant no one else has approached them!

cheers

Bebn
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on November 22, 2014, 09:56:54 pm
50K!!!! woohoo! :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: BudgieJane on November 22, 2014, 10:20:38 pm
It's the horribly oversize gauge but it is a Virgin Trains Pendolino,

But it's only 4 cars, not 9 or 11.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NTrain on November 22, 2014, 11:07:06 pm
The family runs a calendar shop in King's Lynn each year. (8th year) Hoping to be able to set aside enough, from profits, to allow me to make a pledge. The campaign is long enough for me to know how well, or badly we have done this year.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 22, 2014, 11:11:07 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18881.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18881)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on November 22, 2014, 11:37:13 pm
Fantastic response and have just read the piece on Rapido Trains Website.

Can't afford to pledge till later (hope the Ex rate is more in my favour when I do) as this is being funded via other sales of my N gauge excess. Hoping to go for a full 9 with DCC but at nearly $650 AUD my own sales will need to be good.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 23, 2014, 06:33:33 am
Hi all,

. . . Having said all that, I am pretty sure that Arnold are not about to announce a Pendolino - not least because that was the first question I asked Virgin and they were adamant no one else has approached them!

cheers

Bebn
Maybe the Hornby 'license' for the OO covers Arnold too?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: steam-driven boy on November 23, 2014, 07:13:15 am
Hi,
Although from the 'other place' further suggestions of the sort of thing we can hope for from Rapido Trains.
They had on show at the NEC the first prototype of the 'orribly oversize' APT-E:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-23223-0-86908400-1416670751_thumb.jpg (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-23223-0-86908400-1416670751_thumb.jpg)
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-23223-0-76191400-1416670757_thumb.jpg (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-23223-0-76191400-1416670757_thumb.jpg)
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-23223-0-16821300-1416670759_thumb.jpg (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-23223-0-16821300-1416670759_thumb.jpg)
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-23223-0-35189100-1416670762_thumb.jpg (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-23223-0-35189100-1416670762_thumb.jpg)
Worthy of note, I think, is Jason Shron's comment:
Quote
These are indeed very rough first castings.  Our biggest concern is that UK modellers are used to seeing unpainted test samples that they might think this is "final" when they see it in the magazines or online.
 
The stripes were painted using masking tape and are not remotely straight!  So please remember these are first test shots.

I do hope that with a successful result of the Kickstarter Pendo, and NRM Locomotion's APT-E that we will eventually see the shrink ray on this too  :drool:
Also, I'm happy to see the GMD-1 N scale sample in the background to the linked shots, my two must be close to shipping now  :claphappy:

Regards, Gerry  8)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 23, 2014, 07:47:06 am
Hi all,

. . . Having said all that, I am pretty sure that Arnold are not about to announce a Pendolino - not least because that was the first question I asked Virgin and they were adamant no one else has approached them!

cheers

Bebn
Maybe the Hornby 'license' for the OO covers Arnold too?

It's not the licence that's the issue - Virgin are very open about being happy for anyone to model their trains, within reason.

It's more that I think Virgin would know - not least because Arnold would be crazy not to enlist Virgin's pro-active and enthusiastic marketing team!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 23, 2014, 08:05:55 am

Good morning all from Warley!

Please come and find Mike and me - either on the DEMU stand B50 or floating around - or Jason Shron on the Rapido/Locomotion stand E22.

We handed out hundreds of flyers yesterday and my voice was hoarse from talking to so many people but hopefully we are getting the message out - signed up one pledger just before the show closed and went over 50k in funding raised shortly afterwards.

Please keep telling people about the project - we are discovering an awful lot of interested enthusiasts still don't know about it!

And special thanks to Mike H for the fantastic walking advertisement!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 23, 2014, 09:44:11 am
Good luck to everyone publicising the project at Warley today. I enjoyed it immensely. Lots of people warming to an N Pendolino although I did find one family had a downer on the Virgin brand because their wifi keeps failing!

I hope I successfully signed up my next door neighbour last night! He is about to retire and needs a challenging pastime. He has a small N layout already so it was not too hard a sale really.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MikeDunn on November 23, 2014, 12:32:17 pm
Can't recall if a definitive answer to "what sound chip will be used" has come out ...

While chatting with the Rapido guys yesterday about the APT-E (and boy - what a wonderful model it's looking like, and only on the first test moulding too !!!), I asked what chip they're planning for the Pendolino; it's a LokSound chip apparently (I'll leave it to those who know what is available by ESU in this scale to comment further).

Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on November 23, 2014, 04:20:14 pm
I'm a full supporter if this project having subscribed for an 11 car set. However I'm a bit concerned that we need to keep our feet firmly on the ground here. The initial surge to over 20% take up in the first couple of days can, I think, be attributed to NGF and RMWeb members who have been waiting for the go live date, but some of us are already talking like it's a done deal. I don't think that is healthy, there's still a long way to go.

Whilst it's right that we should be of a positive mind, please, let's not get carried away..... Let's just get out there and badger everyone we can to get on on board (ouch). I am in the process if trying to get my dad to get one based on the limited edition nature , and he doesn't even have a model railway?

Fingers are firmly crossed!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ollie3440 on November 23, 2014, 05:28:37 pm
Afternoon all,

Looks like a fantastic start to the campaign, fingers crossed the pledges keep coming in. I wonder if there will be a small surge of pledges just after the big 'C' word? I know I will be pledging but not until late Dec/early Jan when I know how much spare funds I will have. Guess what my first pay packet from the new job will be spent on :D I'm wanting at least one sound model but if funds allow then I'll be backing for a pair, one 11 and one 9 car.

I received my new batch of flyers in the post on Friday (Thanks Ben!) so these will be distributed to the local model shop, around the club and to anyone I know who has an interest in Model Railways. On the note of shops (And forgive me if this has already been mentioned), is there any kickstarter ruling on shops pledging? Giventhe potential re-sale value I would have thought it would be a good way to boost the pledge amount but with less backers actually needed.

Cheers,

Ollie

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on November 23, 2014, 07:16:39 pm
I tweeted ehattons, but they said nothing commital. I would like to think that shops could help out a bit, I don't know if that conflicts with rapido though as they have agreed not to make more for 2 years?

Another question from me, in the unlikely event that more than 200 'pre-orders' are made through rapido, will that be reflected in the kickstarter somehow? or will it just be a case of using this kickstarter as a general gauge of interserest regardless of success after which rapido could decide to go ahead anyway?
I am thinking that rapido could simply 'pledge' the extra orders through kickstarter so that it has a better chance of succeeding rather than all the kickstarter backers having to re-order through rapido?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 23, 2014, 08:42:41 pm
25%... One quarter of the way!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Roy L S on November 23, 2014, 09:50:33 pm
I tweeted ehattons, but they said nothing commital. I would like to think that shops could help out a bit, I don't know if that conflicts with rapido though as they have agreed not to make more for 2 years?

Another question from me, in the unlikely event that more than 200 'pre-orders' are made through rapido, will that be reflected in the kickstarter somehow? or will it just be a case of using this kickstarter as a general gauge of interserest regardless of success after which rapido could decide to go ahead anyway?
I am thinking that rapido could simply 'pledge' the extra orders through kickstarter so that it has a better chance of succeeding rather than all the kickstarter backers having to re-order through rapido?

If Rapido pledge for 200 then they would need to stump up the cash for all of those up front at the start of the project. 200x £255 (9 car) is £51k - a lot of dosh.

Currently the risk would be first carried (rightly) by the Crowd Funders to underwrite 800 units (or the funding target if it breaks down differently) only then do Rapido need to "bolt on" the much lower financial "risk" for their subsequent 200 units.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on November 23, 2014, 10:19:53 pm
hi Gang,

Still have to do mine yet. Will pledge for 2 x 11 cars tomorrow.....discussed the pros and cons with Mike and Ben today.....

I'm not being lazy...I was just out of the country for the last few days....

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 23, 2014, 10:54:40 pm
If shops want to pledge for a number of sets in the same way that everyone else can then that is no problem. We are going to write to the major traders to explain what we are doing etc (and how they could support it), the benefits we think that the project could have for their sales indirectly (eg 350s to run alongside and 57s as Thunderbirds/drags) and to encourage them to point their customers in our direction (we heard that some traders had been asked by their customers about the project).

In terms of Rapido's 200 etc - it would depend entirely on the situation with the Kickstarter campaign at the time that they exceeded their 200.  We have various options to deal with that problem if we need to.

Thank you for all the support and thank you to all those who came and had a chat with at Warley.

Cheers, Mike 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 23, 2014, 11:15:02 pm
Hello all,

What a weekend!  I've finally got a chance to sit down...

I have just uploaded a few shots at "the other place" but I know a lot of NGF forum members are not on there, so I thought I'd add them here too...

First of all - team photo.  Left to right:  Self, Jason Shron (MD Rapido), Bill Schneider (Rapido) Kit Spackman aka Mr Tilt (designer, APT-E tilt system), Mike Hale.   Jason wore his bright jacket and baseball cap pretty much the entire show, and he and Bill were easy to spot!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18939.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18939)

I have been impressed with how enthusiastic Jason is - he genuinely loves Pendolinos and repeatedly during discussions surprised me with his determination to make this happen.  Jason lived in Birmingham for a year or two while studying and has a real affection for railways here - especially WCML...

Kit Spackman is not just a real rail engineer, but also a modeller too.  And while admiring Rapido's 4mm APT-E he happened to mention that in 1978, using a Ministrix chassis and home-brew vac-forming, he built a 2mm version.  Which, of course, he happened to have with him...  (It's unfinished, which of course gives great comfort to the rest of us with unfinished kits on the workbench!)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18943.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18943)

During the show the internet we were able to sign up a few pledgers... NGF forum member Mike B taking the plunge here shortly before we crept over 50k.  I make it 10k added in two days, which isn't too bad...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18940.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18940)

Apart from all the amazingly positive support from those who came to chat to us, we must thank layout operators who not only had our flyers on show, but were kind enough not to have us thrown out when we pestered those admiring the layouts to come and pledge...
 
Here flyers on Banbury, by Ian (Roundhouse) which won best N-gauge layout in show.  Apologies for the awful photograph.... possibly the worst ever taken of this superb layout.  Despite having no need for one as far as I can tell Ian has been unable to resist and has pledged... thanks!  He can always drag it through with the new Farish DRS 57...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18942.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18942)

And finally, as an indication of the quality of final product we can expect from our Pendo Rapido, this is their GMD-1 a Canadian loco... the first production models are arriving shortly.  We tested it on the "Bournville" layout and it runs incredibly smoothly and creeps happily along... here it is with exploded parts diagram.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18944.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18944)

In answer to some specific questions:  If the Kickstarter fails and Rapido have to "go it alone" then the sums become different, and no one would get the Kickstarter price.  The deal we're offered (£255 for 9-car train etc) is predicated on us paying for the tooling... if Rapido have to fund the tooling, and then make a profit on it, and then sell via their retailers instead of direct, then the price per unit would increase by at least 25%, probably more, so the 9-car train would be at least £320.

This is why we keep saying, if you're interested, you've nothing to lose by pledging (no money taken unless full target reached) but you could save at least £65.

As far as retailers go there is nothing to stop them pledging just like anyone else, though I think unlike the rest of us they can claim the VAT back later.  They could then place the models on sale in their shops.  However, there are no special deals available for them as what anyone who pledges is getting, in effect, is trade price + VAT with no dealer margin added.  And it means that unless they chose to make a loss the best they can do is equal the Kickstarter price, not better it.

So where are we now?
 
Both Mike and I were thrilled by the fantasically positive response.  I had a fair few Rule 1 modellers tell me they'd be pledging: one an O-gauge pre-grouping modeller whose only other modern train is the Kato Eurostar he bought when it was first launched in 1994, while several others said they are setting aside their usual antipathy for modern trains because they want to help N-Gauge get that first Kickstarter going.
 
We had one man tell us that with Farish Desiros and Voyagers he would have all he needed to build that WCML layout of his dreams, while a few people admitted they couldn't bring themselves to order a complete model but would still pledge a few quid to help us on our way.  One woman offered to pledge for her husband as she thought the whole thing was such a great idea!
 
But....
 
What I did realise was just how many potential backers don't go on forums, or don't read magazines that closely.  Mike and I handed out literally hundreds of leaflets this weekend (apologies to those we accosted you more that once!) but we missed hundreds, if not thousands, more.
 
If people choose not to pledge then of course that is their perogative and so be it.

But I would hate would-be backers to find out the day after the pledging period ends - so I would urge anyone who supports us to continue to bang the drum, tell your local club members, or model shop, or any train collector friends (even if they're not N, or OHLE, or whatever) about the project and let's see if we can get over the line...
 
Before this weekend I'd have put our chances at 50-50. Now I am becoming increasingly optimistic but as others have said, there is a long way to go.

cheers
 
Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: scoobyra on November 24, 2014, 12:30:06 am
Ben - As I said to you on Saturday (I'm the guy with the wife that you called 'Mrs Mike' when I shook your hand after your fantastic explanation - and you kept trying to offer me a leaflet even though I said I had one  :D :D :D), this is a complete no brainer. A nine car set for £255, if you take one without sound, is great value for money..........sit back and do the maths on a full length HST for a comparison!

There is absolutely NOTHING to lose here in terms of money and the only downside I can see is having to wait a year for it to turn up. I'll be pledging tomorrow.

Personally, I'll be gutted if this doesn't get off the ground.

Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 24, 2014, 12:39:05 am

Ha - Hello again Mike!

I have to admit that the pendo has really got under my skin:  I too would be genuinely really disappointed if we don't see it through!

And I am pretty sure Jason Shron would be gutted too!

cheers

Ben A
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 24, 2014, 12:56:29 am
Hey guys, http://www.ngaugependolino.com/ (http://www.ngaugependolino.com/) has run out of bandwidth :(
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 24, 2014, 01:01:29 am
Hey guys, [url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com/[/url]) has run out of bandwidth :(


Yes - just seen that!  will try to sort it ASAP...

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 24, 2014, 02:34:10 am
Yes, our website has been so popular it has broken - I've asked the hosting company to increase the bandwidth ASAP.

In the meantime if anyone needs the Kickstarter link it is: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge)

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 24, 2014, 08:19:50 am
Hello

I've just put a link to the campaign on the electronic for sale/wanted intranet at the company I work for.

I'm also messaging people I've worked with over the years who are interested in railways via LinkedIn. I'm trying to remember the name of a Finish project manager who collected Fleischmann!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 24, 2014, 08:33:14 am

Morning all,

Thanks to all for the support.  I'd particularly like to thank those who - in person or online, and whether pledging or not, have said that in their judgement we could not have done more to promote this project so far.  That's great to hear, because it means that whether we succeed or fail, we need not have any regrets.

As it is, Mike and I have plenty of ideas to keep things going over the coming weeks until pledging is done, though after Warley I am worried we might not have the energy! 

In other news....

Jason Shron of Rapido has arranged for the sounds for our DCC sound options to be provided by Legomanbiffo.  He already does sounds for a Pendolino but will do some fresh recordings for our version.

The OO sound chip includes the passenger doors opening and closing (this is a toggle on a single button), the windscreen noisy washer jet, despatch whistle, four different horns (two in each direction) and of course the sound of the whining motors.  Some sounds are direction dependent, and our model will have sound in both end cars.

You can hear the sounds - albeit fitted to a Super Voyager for testing - here:

Voyager being used to test Pendolino DCC sound (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byzj1veJZ1A#ws)

And, apologies for briefly breaking the Internet - well, our little bit of it.  I just checked and our website is up and working again!  Perhaps we are more popular than we realised - so let's turn that popularity into pledges!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on November 24, 2014, 09:22:08 am
And, apologies for briefly breaking the Internet - well, our little bit of it.
I lik the notion that an N Gauge Pendolino could do what kim Kardashian could not.  :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on November 24, 2014, 11:34:23 am
Hi Gang,

Pledged this morning as I promised to Ben yesterday.

Quick request.....could you add a reward level for 2 x 11 car please.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 24, 2014, 12:00:04 pm

Hi Stu,

It was good seeing you at Warley and thanks for pledging, and all the support.

Mike is the kickstarter expert but I think you just choose the 11-car version but instead of pledging £285 you pledge 2 x285 ie £570.

You can change your pledge level at any time up to the deadline, so you can always add (or subtract) later - but once we reach 10pm on January 18th that's it, you'll get what you've pledged for at that time.

Once the deadline is passed if we reach our target and the project goes ahead we will contact everyone confirming what we think they have pledged for., according to the amount they pledged. If we're wrong you can let us know!

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on November 24, 2014, 12:02:56 pm
Hi Ben,

Nice to see you too and good to catch up with the project also.
I have indeed ticked the 11 car box....so you should be able to work It out anyway....now I have to look at some numbers for the 2 sets....

I added the £15 p&p to my pledge....right or wrong....???

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Malc on November 24, 2014, 01:04:22 pm
Hi Ben, you are an expert salesman. After telling you on Sunday that the Pendilino was not my era, I've pledged for the 9 coach sound unit. It will take a bit of explaining away to SWIMBO, but well worth it. Good luck reaching the target.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 24, 2014, 01:07:40 pm
Hi Malc

Sorry I missed you (again!).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 24, 2014, 01:30:46 pm
Hi Ben,

Nice to see you too and good to catch up with the project also.
I have indeed ticked the 11 car box....so you should be able to work It out anyway....now I have to look at some numbers for the 2 sets....

I added the £15 p&p to my pledge....right or wrong....???

Later,
Stu from EGDL.

Hi Stu

It was all correct! Kickstarter is a pain for multiple items (either from the same reward band or different reward bands).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 24, 2014, 07:48:01 pm
Hi Ben, you are an expert salesman. After telling you on Sunday that the Pendilino was not my era, I've pledged for the 9 coach sound unit. It will take a bit of explaining away to SWIMBO, but well worth it. Good luck reaching the target.

Ha - I've never been called that before!  I think I must be mellowing with age!!  Seriously, thanks so much for pledging.  The total keeps driving forward and that's all Mike and I can ask. 

I am sending out some flyers to retailers tomorrow, as we had a couple of people (Mike H take a bow) telling us that retailers were being asked about the project by *their* customers and wanted to know more. 

I know from this thread that several forum members have spoken to their own local shop about us; if you have a local shop that does N and support us then please tell them and if they want some flyers - or even a poster - let me know!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on November 24, 2014, 08:06:25 pm
The word has been spread to the Scottish Railways Facebook page and the Aberdeen Model Railway Club.

Every little helps.......
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 24, 2014, 08:19:50 pm
My post on the Military Modelling forum has got someone tempted... :)

http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=101868&p=1#PostTop (http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=101868&p=1#PostTop)

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 24, 2014, 08:38:55 pm
I've just wrapped some plastic tank kits I sold on eBay and a Pendolino flyer found its way into each package...

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: scoobyra on November 24, 2014, 10:42:24 pm
Stupid question Ben...... Have you tried speaking to Richard (Branson)? He's normally really good with things that promote Virgin.

Just a thought..... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 24, 2014, 10:51:32 pm

I'm in two minds about approaching Richard Branson.  Part of me thinks it would be great, and Virgin's press office have been fantastic so far and I'm sure they'd put it to him if asked.

On the other hand this is a Kickstarter project aimed at we model railway enthusiasts and I am partly hoping to see if we can do it ourselves; of course I want a Pendo but as I said to lots of people over the weekend I am also an egalitarian at heart and the idea of modellers coming together to get what they want really appeals to me.  Getting Branson involved seems to go a little against that, somehow - especially as the pledges are continuing to come in at a very satisfactory rate!

Also, and on a sadder note, I suspect he may be more preoccupied with his space project at least for another few weeks.

What do other people think?  Are Mike and I missing a trick, or would it be a little superfluous to ask him?

Having said that, I'm not proud and if we are coming up just short with, say, a fortnight to go I imagine I'll be beating a path to his door...!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 24, 2014, 11:17:00 pm
Id go for it but hey i'm cheeky!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 25, 2014, 12:41:29 am
Ben knows my views, but for the benefit of everyone else - if it hadn't been for the terrible tragedy of the spcecraft I would definitely have said yes.

On the wider note of spreading the message - one of the most gratifying things for me was a French gentleman coming up to speak to me at Warley to let me know that he had pledged.  I attempted in my awful French to thank him - I'm not sure if that encouraged or discouraged him(!) but I was very humbled.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 25, 2014, 12:44:56 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18961.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18961)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on November 25, 2014, 02:17:07 am
Quote
approaching Richard Branson

I do agree with your views Ben, but I would say put out tentatve feelers with a get him on board once we hit 50%. You would then have a large commitment to show for your efforts.

Anyone contacted Wroxham Minature World - okay their N scale is Japanese but it does feature similar style trains and I believe they have a Modelling Section and so could possibly cover/display the stages of creation. May not get many large pledges, but all the little ones add up.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 25, 2014, 03:03:43 am
I have registered on some US railroad forums:
modelrailroadforums.com
railroadforums.com
trainboard.com
modeltrainforum.com

If a quick search doesn't bring up anyone else's post about the Pendolino, i will borrow some of Ben's artwork and logos and let folks know about the project in the N gauge sections...

It might take me a few days, but I'll post links when i manage each one.

There are a lot of railroaders this side of the Atlantic; a good number are N scale; but few, I suspect, are UK outline. But it's worth a try...

Mark.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on November 25, 2014, 06:09:22 am
I pledged for a 5 car set.

Would have loved a larger one, but doubt I can stretch to it with the Christmas period and a delayed pay date for January.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Buzzard on November 25, 2014, 07:25:41 am
What do other people think?  Are Mike and I missing a trick, or would it be a little superfluous to ask him?

I don't think that RB has got where he is today without wanting to know how a project is going.  He probably wouldn't want the fine detail e.g. whether a new airline flight could leave at 10.05 or 10.10 as that sort of stuff doesn't get into a press release or TV interview.

I do agree with your views Ben, but I would say put out tentatve feelers with a get him on board once we hit 50%. You would then have a large commitment to show for your efforts.

How about a briefing at 50% funded or 4 weeks to go whichever comes first?  Just a heads-up no help required.

Having said that, I'm not proud and if we are coming up just short with, say, a fortnight to go I imagine I'll be beating a path to his door...!

That seems very sensible.  If the project is stalling then say that to RB.  I'd provide a pie-chart or similar that shows, broken down week by week, how much has been pledged and obviously how much more is required for the project to proceed.

Nigel
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Buzzard on November 25, 2014, 07:38:15 am
Are Mike and I missing a trick

Ben,

Apologies for the double quote but something has just come to mind.

When you say that the Virgin press office is on board is that just the trains side or the whole group?

If it's just trains then how about going to Virgin Atlantic and seeing if they could put a one page ad in their in-flight magazine.  OK so it's published so they can tell you how you can while away the hours whilst you're at 35,000 feet but that time could also be usefully engaged on whether to have a Pendolino with or without sound, 9 or 11 car etc

Then of course there are all of the other Virgin airlines...

Nigel
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Smiffy on November 25, 2014, 07:38:42 am
Might be worth a brief note to RB to let him know that we appreciate the great support from his team.
You can then add detail of the aims, the great start and the plan to get over the line.
Coming to him late could well be seen as just begging whereas briefing him now may just get his interest in a process he may not be aware of.
Regards
Iain
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 25, 2014, 07:50:01 am
While I agree with the philosphy of egalitarianism, I think Richard Branson should be made aware of this project.

If nothing else, he might want an N Gauge Pendolino for himself!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 25, 2014, 08:54:20 am
Hope you don't get fed up with my postings on this thread...

A colleague of mine who's never expressed any interest in trains or models saw my posting on the company intranet and has gone away with a leaflet :) and info on where to buy track etc.

He's going to wait until after Christmas before pledging.

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 25, 2014, 09:18:10 am
The Pendolinos runs to several of our great cities all with their local news programmes on BBC and ITV. I can see a nice Christmas Day story with all the big Pendos parked up for the day, while Santa's little helpers (us) are beavering away at getting the baby Pendolino production line working. May be possible to ask David Lund to lend his 3D printed model on a run-by through some nice city scenery.

Just a thought. Now who do we know with any useful media news contacts?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Steven B on November 25, 2014, 09:39:10 am
It's great to see the Kickstarter project get off to such a good start.

It's probably too late to adjust the rewards for supporting the project but could the £2 pledge be modified to also include a ticket for a chance to win a Pendo' model in a prize draw? It might encourage a few more supporters who can't afford a complete train pack.


Happy modelling.

Steven B.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Buzzard on November 25, 2014, 09:42:09 am
Now who do we know with any useful media news contacts?

A chap two doors down from me works for the Beeb in their social media department.  Perhaps I should give him the Twitter details?

Nigel
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 25, 2014, 09:56:06 am
It's great to see the Kickstarter project get off to such a good start.

It's probably too late to adjust the rewards for supporting the project but could the £2 pledge be modified to also include a ticket for a chance to win a Pendo' model in a prize draw? It might encourage a few more supporters who can't afford a complete train pack.

Unfortunately Kickstarter rules won't allow that sort of thing.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on November 25, 2014, 09:57:39 am
How would I go about increasing my pledge to get the 9 car set?
Not saying I definitely will, but just in case I can budget for it.

I also saw a someone on RMWeb inquire about choice of liveries, and one poster suggested the poppy livery on Virgin Hero.

If it comes down to a choice I'd definitely go for that.


(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5577/14835144792_75267cccc8.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5521/11815360435_1dc6ee10c5_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 25, 2014, 10:34:29 am
For those of you waiting to pledge until later in the funding period we would ask you to consider pledging as soon as possible.  The reason we say this is that if we know people are on board at an earlier stage it gives us greater confidence to start work earlier.

From your point of view it makes no difference as no money is taken until after the end of the pledging period plus you can change your pledge at any point until the final deadline on 18 January 2015. Plus if we are not successful no money is taken.

Obviously we won't hold it against you if you would rather not!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Calnefoxile on November 25, 2014, 10:35:58 am

Do Virgin have advertising boards on their Pendolinos?? I'm sure they do at their stations.

If so could the Virgin Press Office arrange for some posters to put up in them saying something like, 'Want to own a model of this train, then go to http://www.ngaugependolino.com/ (http://www.ngaugependolino.com/) ' and include some of your flyer artwork.

Also how about a QR Code to go with it.

Just a thought..

Cheers

Neal.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 25, 2014, 10:39:21 am
How would I go about increasing my pledge to get the 9 car set?
Not saying I definitely will, but just in case I can budget for it.

I also saw a someone on RMWeb inquire about choice of liveries, and one poster suggested the poppy livery on Virgin Hero.

You can increase (or decrease - though obviously we hope people won't want to!) your pledge at any point until the 18 Jan.  Just login to Kickstarter and go to our project and there should be a button saying something along the lines of "Amend your pledge" - just change it to whatever amount and reward you wish.

In terms of liveries - the poppy is a trademark of the Royal British Legion and we would need their permission to use it.  One thought that we had was to do that as a limited edition of say 75 or 100 for a slightly higher price and to make a donation to the RBL.  If that is something people would be interested in then please let me know ASAP as we would need to get the RBL's approval and create a new reward level.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on November 25, 2014, 10:45:02 am
How would I go about increasing my pledge to get the 9 car set?
Not saying I definitely will, but just in case I can budget for it.

I also saw a someone on RMWeb inquire about choice of liveries, and one poster suggested the poppy livery on Virgin Hero.

You can increase (or decrease - though obviously we hope people won't want to!) your pledge at any point until the 18 Jan.  Just login to Kickstarter and go to our project and there should be a button saying something along the lines of "Amend your pledge" - just change it to whatever amount and reward you wish.

In terms of liveries - the poppy is a trademark of the Royal British Legion and we would need their permission to use it.  One thought that we had was to do that as a limited edition of say 75 or 100 for a slightly higher price and to make a donation to the RBL.  If that is something people would be interested in then please let me know ASAP as we would need to get the RBL's approval and create a new reward level.

Cheers, Mike

 :thankyousign:

Hopefully some others will be interested in the poppy livery, but I for one will definitely go for it if it's made available.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on November 25, 2014, 11:01:32 am
could we have a graph of time/amount pledged??

the rate of pledges is the key issue to achieve blastoff!!

Nick R

ps I would have a Poppy version as well
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 25, 2014, 11:13:37 am
Kickstarter produces a constantly updated graph for Ben and me, but I can't see a way to link to it. The current trend line suggests that we would be funded by the end of this year (which would be fantastic), but we have a long way to go to reach that.

I think that we fully expect there to be a gradual tailing off of pledges followed perhaps by a late surge.

From our point of view it would be great to get as many pledges as possible as early as possible for the reasons mentioned above ie that we can get on with certain things (eg we have thought of a potential window to scan a Pendolino before the end of the campaign but we would need to be reasonably certain ASAP that we stood a reasonable chance of reaching the target before we went ahead and started forking out money for the scan!).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on November 25, 2014, 11:34:27 am
Here's another one for the 'Poppy' livery :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on November 25, 2014, 11:37:55 am
Hi Ben/Mike,

I'd be in for a Poppy livery on the premise that the additional cost is not prohibitive...say a max of an extra £20 on top of the base price.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 25, 2014, 11:43:47 am
Hello all,

Thanks for all the input and ideas.

I think that when we reach the 50% level we will have a "PR blast" (as I have heard it called!) which will include contacting Richard Branson and enlisting Virgin's PR people to give us a boost with any ideas they can come up with.

Something to raise awareness on the trains and at the stations definitely worth pursuing.

I don't know about others, but I am feeling really optimistic and excited by events.  Jason Shron and Rapido are very enthusiastic and their GMD-1 is an absolutely superb model.  Zunnan and the team on Bournville saw how well it runs and the detailing and finish is just as good, having examined it under decent lighting.  Clearly Rapido's factory know exactly what they're doing!

As Mike says, the key message now is to get "outside" our relatively narrow world and get to a wider audience - Michael's colleague who's thinking about it, or the French enthusiast, are perfect examples.  At the weekend I (think) I managed to convince an O gauge modeller that he needed a Pendolino to add to the Kato Eurostar he bought on a whim in 1994 and has on display.

So if anyone here has access to an intranet, or works for another large company where, for example, someone might be looking for that exclusive and different gift idea, perhaps a short mailshot with link to our website?

But thanks for all the support received already!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on November 25, 2014, 11:58:37 am
It's great to see the Kickstarter project get off to such a good start.

It's probably too late to adjust the rewards for supporting the project but could the £2 pledge be modified to also include a ticket for a chance to win a Pendo' model in a prize draw? It might encourage a few more supporters who can't afford a complete train pack.


Happy modelling.

Steven B.

Good thinking
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on November 25, 2014, 01:07:06 pm
Quote from: woodbury22uk link=topic=23000.msg265121#msg265121
Just a thought. Now who do we know with any useful media news contacts?
Well there's that Ando chap at the BBC! I hear he might have a passing interest...
 :D  :doh: :P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 25, 2014, 01:14:41 pm
For anyone interested, some clever PhD types from Lausanne have come up with a neat little Kickstarter success / failure prediction tool based on the stats and success rates of 16000+ completed Kickstarter campaigns, equating to 2.2 million pledgers and 158 million US Dollars in pledges.

The reported accuracy rate of the success / failure prediction is apparently 76%, which means the tool should offer a pretty good indication of how a given campaign is going to fare. Obviously there are many variables, and it must be said that a British outline modern EMU in N gauge is a fairly specific type of project, so these can only really act as an indication, but it's certainly looking good from a raw data perspective (i.e. prediction based on pledge levels vs. target and remaining time). The predicted chance of success has remained at a stable 92-95% for the past three or four days, despite the number of pledges presumably flattening out a bit after the initial surge from those who were already in the know (i.e. us lot). I would however expect the prediction to drop somewhat as time goes on since the campaign received 100+ pledges in the first couple of days, which will now be down to a handful per day I would imagine.

For those who are interested, the tool can be found here (http://sidekick.epfl.ch/), and the stats for the Pendolino project can be found here (http://sidekick.epfl.ch/campaign/509105082-pendolino---uk-n-gauge) (or by typing "Pendolino" into the search bar and clicking on the campaign's name to see more details).

For those who want the gritty detail, the PhD paper detailing how the prediction model works can be found in PDF format here (http://vincent.etter.io/publications/etter2013cosn.pdf).

Remember these are predictions only, and as I've said above they can only be relied upon to a certain degree, so please don't sit back and think we're going to sail through the pledge target! However I have every confidence we'll make it through (yes "we", the people) if folks continue to get everyone and anyone they can to pledge!

A screengrab of the current predictions for the 390, for those who don't have the time to go and look at all that.

JB

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/jivebunnystudios/KS_zpsd9dc28af.jpg)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 25, 2014, 01:28:33 pm
could we have a graph of time/amount pledged??


How's this...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18968.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18968)

I can post this at regular intervals if there is interest in the graph of the total, as well as the Blue Peter thermometer.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 25, 2014, 01:34:38 pm
Hi JB,

That's fantastic - thanks for the image.

Mind if I repost it to twitter etc?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 25, 2014, 01:40:08 pm
Hi Ben,

The image is just a screengrab from the site so I have no issue with you reposting it. The stats are looking good, and it seems Warley has certainly helped keep the momentum up.

I think regular stats would be interesting to see. It's pleasing to note that the average pledge per person right now is £370 - bet you weren't expecting that with your £255 unit price!

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 25, 2014, 04:37:38 pm

Hi JB,

No, I think you're right.  I pointed out in a post above that our original "800 pledges" target was based on most people pledging for a "basic" 9-car unit.  As it is, the pledging pattern has been very different.

From what people have told me, and from observing the pledges there are, I think we can say...

1)  The idea of factory fitted DCC sound - a British first - is attracting a *lot* of interest.
2)  A lot of people haev said to me that once deciding to take the plunge they go for two rather than one, because they like the idea of watching the pendos crossing each other at speed.
3)  Despite all the talk on here an RMWeb before hand about the need to offer cheaper "short sets" hardly anyone has actually pledged for these.  I would like to think that's because once they think about it they realise what staggeringly good value the full trains are!!
4)  The number of smaller pledges that are clearly simply to support the idea is surprising and heartening - philanthropy is not dead!

What do others think?  Any other trends/thoughts I am missing?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Buzzard on November 25, 2014, 05:05:34 pm
Any other trends/thoughts I am missing?

Collectively do we know of anyone who has run a successful Kickstarter campaign and got their product made?  It doesn't necessarily have to be railway related just as long as it happened.

If we do would it be possible to quiz that person(s) and see how they got across the finishing line if it was looking like they were coming up short on funding?

With such knowledge it might help Ben and Mike do more now to gain the required pledges rather than biting their fingernails for say the last couple of weeks.

Nigel
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 25, 2014, 08:58:11 pm
i use spotfire at work for analyzing massive data sets from IT systems, science data creation and a number of geospatial visualizations.

 one of the things I've learnt is that the human eye is very good at looking at a graph and extrapolating something from the data you have on the screen when no trend really exists.

For eg i could show a plot of the share price for kodak and you would think all would be forever good right up until the mass production of digital photography.....

for the plots above i think there is very little you can infer or learn, it's one set of data for one item.  All you can realistically tell is perhaps that there is a slightly wider ratio between amount pledged and number of pledgers as the project has gone on but that is still subjective and there isn't many points to look at.

Only conclusion you could make is that if the current rate of pledging beyond the first day or 2 is continued you will make the money needed but number of pledges will not make 800 (simple extrapolation)

if you have the dataset in text form, PM it to me on teh forum and i can have a little look :)   assuming i don't have another day like today with 8h of back to back meetings in a 9h day
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 25, 2014, 10:12:32 pm
Hi Zakalwe

The requirement is not based on there being 800 pledges - the reason being that 1 pledge could cover more than one set.  What we are seeing is that there are quite few people ordering 2, 3 or 4 sets hence why the average pledge is higher than the unit cost of a 9 (or 11) car set. There are a few other complicating variables like sound and variations in P&P which Kickstarter does not deal with so well.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 25, 2014, 10:20:27 pm
Collectively do we know of anyone who has run a successful Kickstarter campaign and got their product made?  It doesn't necessarily have to be railway related just as long as it happened.
Andy Vaughan's N Gauge Houses
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1176713488/a-house-in-your-hand-architectural-miniature-model (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1176713488/a-house-in-your-hand-architectural-miniature-model)

Richard Dallimore's N Gauge Wagons
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/926673037/engineers-collection-4-wagon-kits-in-n-gauge-1-148 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/926673037/engineers-collection-4-wagon-kits-in-n-gauge-1-148)

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 25, 2014, 10:30:52 pm
agree, you're on trend to make the money from a much lower number of pledges... so long as the £210k is reached all is good.

will be interesting when the 60 days are up to see where the trends are

do pledges slow down or stay constant
a spike at the end?
a spike on boxing day when people now spend time buying online?

what are the unique hit rates on the pendolino web site like?   That may give a clue?   

Would it be possible to engage a number of UK model shops to buy 10 units for resale later (the chaps who took a gamble on the scotrail mk3 could be the obvious choice here / kernow / others)


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 25, 2014, 10:32:46 pm
Also, anyone other than me seriously considering ordering 5 or more with the intention of keeping one or 2 and selling the rest afterwards on well known auction sites?

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 25, 2014, 10:43:22 pm
will be interesting when the 60 days are up to see where the trends are

do pledges slow down or stay constant
a spike at the end?
a spike on boxing day when people now spend time buying online?

Yep, I'll be interested as well!  As I said earlier we are hoping that we can convince people to pledge as early as possible in the process as that means we can have the confidence to start some of the work earlier than planned.

what are the unique hit rates on the pendolino web site like?   That may give a clue?   

Pretty encouraging - we had seen a general ramping up of interest in advance of the Kickstarter launch, then following the launch things went a bit crazy and stayed high over the Warley weekend.  It is starting to calm down a bit now but the pledges are still coming in steadily (if not in the same volume as for the first couple of days).

Would it be possible to engage a number of UK model shops to buy 10 units for resale later (the chaps who took a gamble on the scotrail mk3 could be the obvious choice here / kernow / others)

We're going to try...

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on November 25, 2014, 10:56:45 pm
Any other trends/thoughts I am missing?

Collectively do we know of anyone who has run a successful Kickstarter campaign and got their product made?  It doesn't necessarily have to be railway related just as long as it happened.

If we do would it be possible to quiz that person(s) and see how they got across the finishing line if it was looking like they were coming up short on funding?

With such knowledge it might help Ben and Mike do more now to gain the required pledges rather than biting their fingernails for say the last couple of weeks.

Nigel

I have backed about 40+ projects and most have come through. I have backed t-shirts, chocolate, nut butters, wargaming figures, railways, heritage projects, music, tools, kitchen products and even a ballet. I have run one of my own which has had delays that I hope to sort out soon.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on November 25, 2014, 10:57:37 pm
Well that's me in for a 9 and 11 car. Hope I pledged the right amount!  :uneasy: Let me know if it isn't obvious please Mike!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on November 25, 2014, 11:19:23 pm
You could ask DM Toys and    Modellbahn-Union - MU attend TINGS

Nick R
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Rowlie on November 25, 2014, 11:32:45 pm
Well that's the birthday present sorted for 2016, guess I need to sort out a larger layout now  :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 26, 2014, 01:04:12 am

Hello,

Thanks to all who are continuing to join the party and pledge.

It's the end of day 5 and total over 61k with 163 backers. At this rate we'll hit our target in just under a fortnight!

Tuning back into reality, we know it's going to slow down soon but we are determined for the remainder of the pledging period to keep the energy levels up and keep boring everyone by telling them how much they need a Pendolino... having said that once we do hit the target, although the pledge period stays open we can immediately start work on things that cost, such as the 3D scan.  So as Mike said earlier, if you are minded to pledge then please do it sooner rather than later - though we can't take any money until the end even if we have reached the goal!

I have created a "baby pendo" Facebook page to go with our @baby_pendo twitter account where I will try to kep adding fun content, so please, if you support us, "like" it and try to use it to spread the word. At least, I think that's how these things work...!

With the help of forum members I am also sending out letters explaining what we are doing to retailers, along with brochures.  Ian from Mercig has emailed to say he will be putting flyers in anything he sends out to his customers, which is wonderful news.  Bob at N-train, Adam at Electra and Richard at N-tastic have also done a lot to help, so thanks to all those in the trade for supporting us too!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 26, 2014, 02:14:44 am
It's the end of day 5 and total over 61k with 163 backers. At this rate we'll hit our target in just under a fortnight!

Tuning back into reality, we know it's going to slow down soon but we are determined for the remainder of the pledging period to keep the energy levels up and keep boring everyone by telling them how much they need a Pendolino...


one of the things I've learnt is that the human eye is very good at looking at a graph and extrapolating something from the data you have on the screen when no trend really exists.


While I agree that the data is limited and that (over)analysis at this stage is statistically meaningless, I like to think it helps to keep people informed and enthused.

So, here is the daily thermometer as of the end of Day 6.  I know we already got another pledge, but I can't include that and keep the integrity of the stats.  The graph has an extrapolation that uses day 1 to 6 with a least squares extrapolation (out to around day 41). At least it is a mathematical extrapolation and not just a 'visual' one.  It deliberately excludes the first 24 hours, as the slope is clearly biphasic and the first few hours are not part of the same trend.

Some of us might enjoy seeing the progress in picture form...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_18990.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=18990)

I am seriously considering gambling on getting a bonus in March and pledging for another set if we can get the poppy emblem going.  That is a great idea with the donation.

Also, anyone other than me seriously considering ordering 5 or more with the intention of keeping one or 2 and selling the rest afterwards on well known auction sites?


I think there are probably a lot of us seriously considering the resale option...

I have backed about 40+ projects and most have come through. I have backed t-shirts, chocolate, nut butters, wargaming figures, railways, heritage projects, music, tools, kitchen products and even a ballet. I have run one of my own which has had delays that I hope to sort out soon.


Ntastic - what the heck is a nut butter???
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2014, 11:16:52 am
I'll be honest and say that I am considering pledging (via my brother as I can't back my own project!) for quite a few with an eye on potential resales of some of them.

My strong suspicion is that with the best will in the world we won't get pledges from absolutely everyone that wants one (either because they don't find out in time, have no money or have a change in interest). So I think there will be demand.

From looking at Rapido's pattern of business it is very much about produce something in limited numbers to satisfy the current demand and then move on to the next project. So even though Rapido will not re-run the Pendolino for at least 2 years I think the reality could be much longer - they will only do it if they think there is substantial demand for another run (there would need to be an awful lot more demand for a re-run than for resales of the Kickstarter stock).

Even if Rapido do a re-run it will be substantially more expensive (at least 25% and probably more once you factor in Chinese price rises etc).

So yes, I don't think it will be a poor investment if you have a bit of spare cash and are prepared to be patient when selling them.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on November 26, 2014, 11:34:16 am
i suspect that the Pendolino market will be saturated for a while with the Kicjstarter models, both for the initial demand and the Ebay market!

I wonder what effect the loss of £200k potential sales will have on DApol / Farish and the general N Scale market??
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on November 26, 2014, 11:52:52 am
what the heck is a nut butter???

Unless it's a euphemism for something I'm not aware of :D it's a butter made from nuts.

Used to be just peanut butter but you can now get butters made from hazelnuts, almonds, cashews, etc :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 26, 2014, 12:13:58 pm
So yes, I don't think it will be a poor investment if you have a bit of spare cash and are prepared to be patient when selling them.
I have to admit to being on the fence about pledging, 'cos my budget is all used up :( (and the Pendolino is not something I'm familiar with at all). OTOH if I could potentially sell it onwards - not necessarily at a profit - I might be able to persuade myself. If I can chase down some money someone owes me in the next couple of weeks I'll definitely go for it, albeit via Rapido due to not being in the EU.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on November 26, 2014, 12:21:21 pm
I'll be honest and say that I am considering pledging (via my brother as I can't back my own project!) for quite a few with an eye on potential resales of some of them.

My strong suspicion is that with the best will in the world we won't get pledges from absolutely everyone that wants one (either because they don't find out in time, have no money or have a change in interest). So I think there will be demand.

From looking at Rapido's pattern of business it is very much about produce something in limited numbers to satisfy the current demand and then move on to the next project. So even though Rapido will not re-run the Pendolino for at least 2 years I think the reality could be much longer - they will only do it if they think there is substantial demand for another run (there would need to be an awful lot more demand for a re-run than for resales of the Kickstarter stock).

Even if Rapido do a re-run it will be substantially more expensive (at least 25% and probably more once you factor in Chinese price rises etc).

So yes, I don't think it will be a poor investment if you have a bit of spare cash and are prepared to be patient when selling them.

Cheers, Mike

I think this is a fair point, and something I'd pondered myself. This could be looked upon as something altruistic and an investment at the same time.

I'm not so sure that the kickstarter in itself would saturate the market, I would think there are a lot of people who currently won't bid out of the principle of not wanting to pay for something they can't evaluate in the flesh. I'd be reasonably confident that there would be a market.

The problem, I'd think, is if a few of us are of the same mind and we unwittingly saturate the second-hand market when we all try and sell them on, at the same time.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 26, 2014, 02:18:28 pm

Hi all,

With the best will in the world, I am sure that there is no way we will reach all the potential customers for an N Gauge Pendolino.  Add to that collectors, rule 1 modellers and those who just don't look at the online forums, read the modelling press or go to Warley and that is still a large group of people.

*If* we reach our goal, and the project is go, this will be the first British RTR product to be funded in this way. 

There may be others to come - I hope there are - but this will always be the first, and therefore by default historic.  So even if Rapido *do* produce more, the first ones (and remember, Rapido will never do any of the same numbers) will always be special.

And imagine the coverage in the press.  I know from conversations I have had with editors at Warley that the model railway mags are taking a very considerable interest in this.  I suspect we may even be able to get coverage in the wider press- after all, a crowd sourced scheme with Virgin's blessing coming together to raise nearly a quarter of a million pounds to get a toy train is quite a story!

Over the year we will take to produce the model there'll be the excitement over the laser scanning, the unveiling of the CADs (once backers have seen them first!), choosing the numbersets, first samples etc etc.  By the time the production models arrive there will be, I am confident, a large number of people kicking themselves that they didn't commit, or gutted that they just didn't know, and who are determined to secure a Pendolino...

And even if that doesn't convince you, remember that if Rapido produce more they'll each be at least £65 (25% on basic 9-car set) more; so you could sell at a profit of £50 and your buyer would still be quids in!

I know *I would say this, wouldn't I* but if you're one of the first I can't honestly see how you can lose!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on November 26, 2014, 02:25:00 pm
If the quality of the Rapido OO APT-E is anything to go by, we may see lots of new WCML layouts appearing from folk who backed the Pendolino as an investment.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 26, 2014, 02:27:31 pm
I have registered on some US railroad forums:
modelrailroadforums.com
railroadforums.com
trainboard.com
modeltrainforum.com

If a quick search doesn't bring up anyone else's post about the Pendolino, i will borrow some of Ben's artwork and logos and let folks know about the project in the N gauge sections...

It might take me a few days, but I'll post links when i manage each one.

Three of the four registrations are now active so I will try to get posting over the long Thanksgiving weekend...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2014, 02:33:40 pm
One of the things that Ben and I are conscious of is that if funding for the Pendolino is secured and it is produced then it makes a huge chunk of the UK (400 miles of WCML from London to Glasgow) more modellable as it fits in very nicely with the 350s, 86s, (87s), 90s etc.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on November 26, 2014, 02:42:56 pm
Maybe you should ask Farish for a subsidy since you will help them shift their surplus Desiros.  :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on November 26, 2014, 03:01:58 pm
Mustermark thats my kind of graph :)

When interacting with model shops, emphasisiing this helps you shift class 90 / 350 WCL items would be a strong proposition, likewise the demand that would come from people seeing n gauge pendolino's on layouts at exhibitions and struggling to find one :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 26, 2014, 03:17:30 pm

Hello all,

At Warley Jason Shron gave me an N-scale Rapido GMD-1 to evaluate.  I think it may be the only one in the country right now.  I wanted to look at the kind of performance Rapido expect from their own products.

We did test it at the show on "Bournville" - Zunnan was one of those present - and I have now uploaded a video to the "baby pendo" facebook page for everyone to see.  You don't need to join facebook or anything, just paste the link into your browser and the video should come up:

http://on.fb.me/1HFQQ1u (http://on.fb.me/1HFQQ1u)

I was very impressed I must say.   As well as very smooth and controllable slow-speed running, the loco handled 14 Dapol Mk3s with a DVT with ease around an oval of hastily assembled and not even cleaned Kato unitrack.  This model was running on DC (as the video explains) and I have not tested a DCC equipped loco.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on November 26, 2014, 03:23:27 pm


And imagine the coverage in the press.  I know from conversations I have had with editors at Warley that the model railway mags are taking a very considerable interest in this.  I suspect we may even be able to get coverage in the wider press- after all, a crowd sourced scheme with Virgin's blessing coming together to raise nearly a quarter of a million pounds to get a toy train is quite a story!

Hi Ben,

Now that paragraph of yours above sold on to the tabloids may just reach a wider and more curious audience.....

I, too, have been pondering the fruitfulness of ordering extra sets to sell on later....looking at the Blue Pullman resales, a profit is feasible......conversely, the 2nd hand market for a similar Dapol HST is entirely subjective depending on livery......I'll ponder a while longer for now!!!

Best of Luck,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 26, 2014, 03:27:20 pm

Hi Stu,

I don't think the wider press would be interested in the story while we are trying to get the backing, unfortunately.  But if we succeed then there would be interest, I am sure.

And although such coverage wouldn't help get us over the line, it would be sure to generate interest in the upcoming product - at a time when the only people who would get them would be the backers.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Roy L S on November 26, 2014, 07:33:06 pm
I have now placed my pledge, albeit only for the short 5 car set (for use under "Rule1"), but that's still tiny step closer to the funding target.

Roy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 26, 2014, 08:08:16 pm

Hello all,

Further to the video I posted on the "baby pendo" page on Facebook showing the slow-speed performance of the Rapido GMD-1 locomotive, I have also done some timed runs to assess its overall performance envelope.

I used a Gaugemaster D controller (the one in the video) and was operating on DC only.  I used an oval of Kato Unitrack and I timed three runs (two in one direction, one in the other) over a fixed distance - for the slower speeds 0.5 metres, but as the loco got faster over one complete circuit to cut down on the error factor.

The controller knob is calibrated from 10-70 and then "max."  The numbers are controller reading / scale speed in kph / scale speed in mph

20 / 4.9 / 3.0
30 / 29.5 / 18.3
50 / 88.6 / 55.1
70 / 177.48 / 110.3
MAX / 250.1 / 155.4

So I would say that this fits reasonably well for the performance required of a Pendolino.

Now over £63k pledges - as anticipated growth is slowing a little, but still steady!

cheers

Ben A.


Scale speed:  4.9 km/h, 3.0 mph
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on November 26, 2014, 08:29:13 pm
Flyers have been left at 3 shows I've been to since I collected them at TINGS. One more to go this year at Poynton (7.12.14). I'm now sending them out with any NGF merchandise purchased and am working up courage to persuade our local grumpy model shop to keep some on their counter :worried:
Wonder whether local libraries would be another outlet :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 26, 2014, 08:39:33 pm
Flyers have been left at 3 shows I've been to since I collected them at TINGS. One more to go this year at Poynton (7.12.14). I'm now sending them out with any NGF merchandise purchased and am working up courage to persuade our local grumpy model shop to keep some on their counter :worried:
Wonder whether local libraries would be another outlet :hmmm:

Hi there,

Here are some points I prepared to tell traders why it could be in their interest to support us:

 - Sales of Pendolinos could drive sales of other appropriate N Gauge models – the Farish Class 350 Desiros and Voyagers, and Dapol class 86s and Catenary masts.

 - You may well have customers – either N Gauge modellers or collectors – who’d want a Pendolino in N and by publicising this project you will be assisting them.

 - If this project succeeds it will be a first in British Model Railways and generate considerable press interest – your customers will see this and in turn know that by being aware and involved you are “in the loop” with the latest ideas and trends.

 - If this is a success Rapido are likely to expand further into the UK market with models that will be sold more conventionally through the trade, as is their business model in Canada.  And further runs of the Pendolino will also be available to the trade, but not for at least two years after initial production.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: roundhouse on November 26, 2014, 09:00:16 pm
One of our operators  will try and get some of the leaflets into his local model shop in the  Northwest and will mention to him to say about potential sales of other Emus and centenary. If this succeeds . He will also hopefully have some leaflets at Poynton.

Ian
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on November 26, 2014, 09:03:08 pm
Ben are you going to Stotfold Saturday? lMRS show?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on November 27, 2014, 12:04:57 am
Ben are you going to Stotfold Saturday? lMRS show?

I'm at Stotfold and Ben has kindly supplied me with leaflets to take!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 27, 2014, 02:16:46 am
As of end Day 7...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_19025.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19025)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on November 27, 2014, 02:57:46 am
My friend linked me this after I told her I pledged for a Pendolino.
Haha.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_19027.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19027)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 27, 2014, 06:48:43 am
Wonder if Virgin would give out the leaflets at their stations?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Buzzard on November 27, 2014, 07:33:47 am
My friend linked me this after I told her I pledged for a Pendolino.
Haha.


([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_19027.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19027[/url])


I'm not sure any female drivers would be too happy to be in charge of this one ;)

No seriously there shouldn't be any marketing issues with this as Movember is a publicity campaign rather than a branded product.

Nigel
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: steam-driven boy on November 27, 2014, 07:40:53 am
Hi,
And now, perchance, for modellers of the ECML  :D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30222458 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30222458)

Regards, Gerry  8)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Buzzard on November 27, 2014, 08:13:35 am
As of end Day 7...

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_19025.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19025[/url])


Following on from this I was curious as to the number of full length trains people had pledged for so far and after a bit of maths came up with the following:

A total of 174 split like this

9 car - 100 or 57%
11 car - 74 or 43%

dc - 127 or 73%
dcc - 47 or 27%

Hope this is of interest to some.

Nigel
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on November 27, 2014, 08:14:39 am
Don't count on it yet, the deal to replace the HSTs and 91s with the new IEP trains might be written into the agreement ;)


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on November 27, 2014, 08:38:30 am
And now, perchance, for modellers of the ECML  :D
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30222458[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30222458[/url])

Probably not. I imagine the 91s have at least another decade in service and the HSTs are more likely to be replaced by IEPs. The dual-powered sets are probably ideal for through services to Aberdeen etc.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 27, 2014, 09:40:42 am
Following on from this I was curious as to the number of full length trains people had pledged for so far and after a bit of maths came up with the following:

A total of 174 split like this

9 car - 100 or 57%
11 car - 74 or 43%

dc - 127 or 73%
dcc - 47 or 27%

Hi Nigel

Unfortunately you can't tell from the publicly available figures as Kickstarter doesn't deal well with multiples or different bands.  When I have a few minutes I will let everyone know the splits.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on November 27, 2014, 11:05:43 am
Got my newsletter from Rapido this morning and there's no mention of the project :confused2:
Maybe too late for the newsletter deadline and it'll be in the next one :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 27, 2014, 11:09:44 am
Hi Mick

Which Rapido newsletter did you get? The first UK newsletter included the project - see: http://www.rapidotrains.com/rapidonewsukcurrent.html (http://www.rapidotrains.com/rapidonewsukcurrent.html)

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on November 27, 2014, 11:14:55 am
Thanks very much, Mike.
I haven't been getting the UK ones (situation now corrected) :doh:
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on November 27, 2014, 05:46:40 pm
My wife will kill me, but I've just bought a 9 car set with sound. :slap:

Keep up the great work Ben and Mike, and everyone else who is pledging.  :)  4CIGs and EPB's next please! :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 27, 2014, 06:12:24 pm

Anyone contacted Wroxham Minature World - okay their N scale is Japanese but it does feature similar style trains and I believe they have a Modelling Section and so could possibly cover/display the stages of creation. May not get many large pledges, but all the little ones add up.

I was there today and spoke to the senior staff. May well be a pledge as £255 for a nine car train sounded very good to them. Certainly worth sending some flyers. Suggested a Pendolino would fit in very well on the marvellous N gauge Japanese layout running amongst the Bullet trains etc.

I had several enjoyable minutes being able to see a 5 car Hornby Pendolino in Alstom livery on the 00 layout and imagining an 11 car N gauge one bombing down the scale mile long straight on the N gauge layout. Made me feel 60 years younger!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on November 27, 2014, 07:41:44 pm
My wife will kill me, but I've just bought a 9 car set with sound. :slap:

she could pledge a 2 car set for Christmas Pressie??

NR
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on November 27, 2014, 08:32:02 pm
Got my newsletter from Rapido this morning and there's no mention of the project :confused2:
Maybe too late for the newsletter deadline and it'll be in the next one :hmmm:


There is a brief reference under "Bill and Jason's Excellent UK Adventure" to designing the Pendolino Advert and there are pics of him standing by a Voyager (subliminal advertising ?) and loads of praise for Warley in his blog. A funny and informative read, take a look http://www.rapidotrains.com/blog/2014/11/26/1159/ (http://www.rapidotrains.com/blog/2014/11/26/1159/)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on November 27, 2014, 08:46:24 pm
My friend linked me this after I told her I pledged for a Pendolino.
Haha.


I'm not sure any female drivers would be too happy to be in charge of this one ;)

No seriously there shouldn't be any marketing issues with this as Movember is a publicity campaign rather than a branded product.

Nigel


;)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/36/thumb_19033.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19033)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 28, 2014, 08:31:40 am
Hello all,

Yesterday afternoon I had a very enjoyable meeting with Paul Priestman, of PriestmanGoode.  He's the man who designed the nose of the Pendolino, as well as the interiors and the livery.

Here he is by the very first concept model of the train, which still takes pride of place in an open area at the front of their office.  He's quite a character and absolutely overflowing with enthusiasm for rail travel - and now he knows about our project he's promised to pledge for an N Gauge Pendo too!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19041.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19041)

They're now doing lots of work in China, where a massive High Speed Rail building programme is underway, and designed the 380A train; see here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_CRH380A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railways_CRH380A)

PriestmanGoode are also involved in the new London Underground trains, and there are some fascinating concepts on their website, including the "moving platforms" idea..

http://www.priestmangoode.com/projects/ (http://www.priestmangoode.com/projects/)

And, of course, our chat was very timely coming as it did on the day it was announced that the new IEP trains being built by Hitachi for the ECML will be Virgin branded.  Paul is anticipating involvement in styling elements of the shape, and certainly the livery and interiors, of the new trains; but he did acknowledge that the IC225 and HST sets they will inherit for the first three years of operations will also have to be refreshed to reflect the Virgin brand, however I don't think they've yet decided whether this will be through vinyls or a full repaint.

On another note, he loves the "Traindeer" as it's a bit of fun: as far as I see it there is no reason why an enterprising trader could not produce a vinyl replicating this - I'm sure Virgin would give permission as they are very pro-model railways and we couldn't wish for more support for the N Gauge Pendolino.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on November 28, 2014, 08:59:33 am
When I first saw the picture I thought " Blimey, it's Phil Collins" :D


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bealman on November 28, 2014, 09:08:40 am
Who I believe is a model railway enthusiast.

However, back to topic.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on November 28, 2014, 09:37:11 am
Speaking of railway enthusiasts, have we approached Pete Waterman? He has a substantial twitter following. Perhaps he'd be willing to help spread the word? (Despite it not being his preferred gauge.)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on November 28, 2014, 11:19:58 am
Let's not start listing all the "famous modellers" again, there's a whole thread on them somewhere already :no:

Neither of those two model in N Gauge anyway so doubtful they'd be bothered?


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bealman on November 28, 2014, 11:34:01 am
Total agreement. Members, lets stay on topic here.  :thumbsup:

George
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 28, 2014, 11:42:47 am
Newsletter #2 has just gone out this morning - if you've not signed up for our newsletters you can do so on our website at: http://www.ngaugependolino.com/ (http://www.ngaugependolino.com/) (just fill in the short form on the right hand side).

If anyone would like a copy of issue 2 and isn't signed up please PM me your email address and I will forward it to you.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on November 28, 2014, 12:32:37 pm
Please can I suggest that you also send out the newsletter via Kickstarter updates as it will reach people who are watching this project and not signed up through your website.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on November 28, 2014, 04:49:33 pm
ihow about contacting

http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/other/newsletter.php?utm_source=UKMS-Newletter&utm_campaign=018989163e-my_google_analytics_key&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_5793ec7d3f-018989163e-105894493 (http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/other/newsletter.php?utm_source=UKMS-Newletter&utm_campaign=018989163e-my_google_analytics_key&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_5793ec7d3f-018989163e-105894493)

Adrian must have an extensive mail-list??

Nick R
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on November 28, 2014, 08:34:33 pm
Looked this morning to see almost a third achieved with a jump to 189 pledgers and just over of £69K.  :claphappy: :claphappy:

Do we know how the International bids are going ?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 28, 2014, 10:07:30 pm
I don't think the team have access to such stats until the funding campaign is over.

If you're talking purely "outside of the UK" then there will have been quite a few pledges generated on the forum, my own included, however when it comes to people who wouldn't normally model the UK I'm sure there will be quite a few pledges as well. I can't tell you for other countries but as far as France is concerned I know Mike's post on the French N forum has already generated at least two pledges, one 5-car set and one sound-fitted 11-car unit. But then an 11-car sound-fitted EMU for less than 500€ is pocket money for a collector's piece, when you look at the prices French railway modellers are saddled with.

The value we'd be getting out of the Pendolino is quite astounding when you take a look at the Märklin online shop and see that a similarly-specced full-length H0 TGV Lyria (two powered cars + 8 trailers) will set you back 930€ / £740. It's not much better on the second-hand "iconic EMU" market since Jouef and Lima went belly-up at the turn of the century. I'm trying to put together a couple of long out-of-production high-spec Jouef and Lima TGV rakes and my complete Spanish AVE rake (2+8 formation) cost me just shy of £500, whilst my TGV Atlantique has so far left my wallet 400€ / £320 lighter, and I'm still missing three second-class trailers! And those costs don't include the postage of the various cars, found in classifieds and on auction sites...

As far as I'm concerned, 320€ / £255 for a 9-car prototypical EMU is veeeeeeeery good value indeed!

By the way, we've just hit £70,000  :claphappy:

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 28, 2014, 11:00:05 pm
Over one third of the way to the target!

As of end of Day 9...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19058.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19058)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on November 29, 2014, 07:03:09 am
Getting over 1/3 is an important milestone to cross - from the projects perspective  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 29, 2014, 08:37:26 am

Morning all,

For various reasons I wasn't able to monitor the total as frequently as usual yesterday, so when I did check in and saw we'd topped £70k it was quite a thrill!

A third of the way there, and a sixth of the way into the pledging period.

I keep thinking the pledging rate is sure to slow down, though so far from mustermark's chart it seems remarkably consistent.

We are doing some preparatory work in terms of gathering data, preparing to get the Pendolino scanned and get the sound recorded, among other things.

Naturally we will keep our backers fully informed of such developments as we get started on them almost as soon as the pledge total is reached...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 29, 2014, 08:49:11 am
Sorry if this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it on the FAQ - do orders directly to Rapido count towards the Kickstarter total? If not, is the project dependent on both reaching the Kickstarter total and the Rapido contingent (200 units IIRC)?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 29, 2014, 09:25:46 am

Hi there

The numbers only stack up if (give or take) 1000 people want to buy a 9-car Pendolino at £255.

To make the Kickstarter more likely to succeed, and because they have faith in the project, Rapido agreed to "take" 200 models to sell internationally.

If, say, the Kickstarter succeeds but Rapido only get to 150 sales then I am certain the project will go ahead.  If Rapido make their target, but the Kickstarter fails, then it will come down to "how close" the Kickstarter got.  Then Rapido will take a view on whether to proceed anyway, putting their own money into it.

Nearer the deadline, when we can see how the numbers are looking, we might need to crunch those numbers in more detail...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 29, 2014, 11:52:28 am
I love numbers. I often turn out my bedside light at 23.23 and wake up at 07.07

So i was pleased looking at the current numbers on Kickstarter (197 pledges totalling £72791) that the average pledge so far is roundly £370. and that we need 370 more pledges of this size to meet the target of £210000.

Time to knock on some more doors.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on November 29, 2014, 03:30:49 pm
Hi Ben

You're earlier reply is a bit confusing. You seem to be saying that even if the Kickstarter succeeds Rapido may not produce a model if they don't sell any of their 200. Is that really the case or am I missing something?

Thanks,

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 29, 2014, 03:56:29 pm

Hi John,

Apologies if I was unclear:  if the Kickstarter reaches its target then yes, the project is guaranteed to go ahead.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on November 29, 2014, 05:34:42 pm
Had a wee think about it, and increased my pledge to £255.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: johnlambert on November 29, 2014, 10:57:27 pm
Made a small pledge earlier today.  Although I can't see the Pendolino in any of my current layout plans it is a great project and I would like to see it succeed.  I've also got some leaflets and I'll see if my local model shop will take some to spread the word.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 29, 2014, 11:30:35 pm
And another question which there doesn't seem to be a FAQ for - is it known what kind of packaging this will come in? Bookset, individual jewel-cases-in-a-box etc.? Just curious.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on November 29, 2014, 11:59:11 pm
I handed some leaflets out to those visiting the layout today at the Letchworth show, but we were a bit short handed so didn't get time to tour around handing them out. In discussion with those in front of the layout, knowledge of the project seemed quite high, with people siting the magazine articles they'd seen.  :thumbsup: I did talk to a bloke who'd trained staff on the maintainence of Pendos when they first entered service. He spent a lot of time saying how awful they were to work on. He still took away a leaflet though!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 30, 2014, 02:13:19 am
And another question which there doesn't seem to be a FAQ for - is it known what kind of packaging this will come in?

Put simply - no! That is something that we will have plenty of time to worry about IF the project is funded and once all the prototype research is completed!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 30, 2014, 03:02:56 am
As of end of Saturday...

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19086.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19086)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mjspeed on November 30, 2014, 03:58:58 pm
I may have missed this in the 37 previous pages, but have adverts been placed in the modelling magazines?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 30, 2014, 04:31:07 pm
I may have missed this in the 37 previous pages, but have adverts been placed in the modelling magazines?

Yes (in the next issues of BRM and MR with an article due in RM) and we have been fortunate to have been given plenty of editorial coverage as well.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on November 30, 2014, 04:46:34 pm
Please can I suggest that you also send out the newsletter via Kickstarter updates as it will reach people who are watching this project and not signed up through your website.

I see you have not taken this advice, you are going to miss out on potential backers from the Kickstarter community and others watching who may forget. I have told you that I did get a number of backers who were not railway modelers by keeping the community informed you will get more backers, who may not want anything in return!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on November 30, 2014, 05:51:40 pm
I think that is a good suggestion Ntastic... Since going on there for the Pendolino i have been interested in a few things I've seen.

If you can get featured on thir site, it can attract interest via Kickstarter. The Kickstarter newsletter could help too.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on November 30, 2014, 07:25:42 pm
Richard

Very simple reason for using our email list vs Kickstarter updates is that we have more control over how we can format our newsletters and secondly at the moment our focus has been on getting information to the people who have supported us from before the Kickstarter campaign was live. We've also been updating the main Kickstarter text as we go.

It is my understanding that the majority of people who would receive updates are people who have already backed the project.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on November 30, 2014, 09:58:26 pm
Hello

Not posting Kickstarter updates during the funding makes it look like nothing is being done. You've created the campaign and are now waiting for the money to flow in!

Those of us on the various forums know this is not true, but people finding the project while browsing Kickstarter don't.

I backed a laser engraver project and during the month long funding period there were 10 updates which gave a warm feeling about the project. I didn't know the guy behind this project but his updates posted before I pledged gave me confidence in him. Kickstarter updates are visible to everyone visiting the page, an email list isn't.

Updating the main Kickstarter text is invisible - I've just re-read it and cannot see what's changed...

IMO the format doesn't matter, reaching people outside of our walled-garden forums does matter though!!!

As Richard says you need to get the philanthropic Kickstarter followers pledging.

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 30, 2014, 10:33:45 pm

Hi all,

The packaging has to be protective enough to travel safely from Rapido's factory in China, and of course the format has to be flexible enough for 2-car, 5-car, 9-car and 11-car.

The format will be down to Rapido, though I think I will get to design the look of the cover, and I'll want that to reflect the "look" of the campaign so far in terms of colours, logos, graphic imagery etc.  I want the packaging to feel different to a standard model, so people will be reminded that they were a part of something special.

What do people think?  What would you like to see?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on November 30, 2014, 11:14:55 pm

Hello all,

We've added an update to the Kickstarter page, in the hope that it will encourage page visitors to pledge.  As we get more work done, I'll aim to keep the updates coming!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on November 30, 2014, 11:17:05 pm
Possibly a silly question; but looking at the trend so far in Mark's graph, there is a distinct possibility that the financial target will be reached, but because of the skewing towards higher value 11 car and Sound fitted options the 800 units target will be missed...

What happens in that situation? Kickstarter rules say the project goes ahead, but will the full 1000 (800 + Rapidos 200) set be produced? If so what will happen to the surplus sets?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on November 30, 2014, 11:21:11 pm

Hi all,

The packaging has to be protective enough to travel safely from Rapido's factory in China, and of course the format has to be flexible enough for 2-car, 5-car, 9-car and 11-car.

The format will be down to Rapido, though I think I will get to design the look of the cover, and I'll want that to reflect the "look" of the campaign so far in terms of colours, logos, graphic imagery etc.  I want the packaging to feel different to a standard model, so people will be reminded that they were a part of something special.

What do people think?  What would you like to see?

I'd like to see Japanese-style booksets; maybe a standard 6-car book which would cover all variants? You'd need two books for the 9 and 11 car variants.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on November 30, 2014, 11:45:00 pm
How about something along the lines and dimensions of the Kato "bookcase" design? I like these a lot. They are of strong construction, padded with high-density foam (that doesn't catch on detail parts), and are barely thicker than the width of the rolling stock. The foam is modular in a way which allows the same tray to be used to store anything between one and eight items of rolling stock, it's just a case of removing however many foam inserts you need to get the space you need.

You could have one box for the basic 5-car set, with a nice cardboard sleeve to fit, and a second box for the 4/6 remaining cars of the 9/11-car sets, with a slightly wider cardboard sleeve to fit both cases in. They're great for storage, look smart, and they'd keep postage costs down as they're not cumbersome at 32cm high x 22 wide x 3 thick (6cm thick for 9/11 car sets). The last thing I think people want is a great big box that barely fits on the coffee table and that you'd end up having to throw out or make room for in a cupboard between the towels and the toilet rolls (remember Rapido, we Europeans are tightly-packed and live in small houses we have to crawl into).

If you own a 9-car set and want to expand to 11, just pop the last two inserts out of the 4-car tray and stick in your two newly-acquired trailers.

Possibly worth a look as an alternative to the big "train-set" type boxes.

A couple of examples:

Smart
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/jivebunnystudios/IMG_2367_zps3a52d1fd.jpg)

Storage-friendly
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/jivebunnystudios/B74A2511-40A8-4D32-8C97-E2B53E5C87D5_zpsopxa1kxe.jpg)

Flexible (note case on left which has three inserts still in place)
(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/jivebunnystudios/46B75EE5-D755-4A5C-9685-AEBBFBBA3C2F_zpsi3ouqmql.jpg)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on December 01, 2014, 01:03:38 am
(remember Rapido, we Europeans are tightly-packed and live in small houses we have to crawl into)

You can crawl into your houses? Luxury. Here in Japan we have to grease our bodies and fold ourselves into origami-like contortions to enter ours.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 01, 2014, 01:57:19 am

Hello all,

Thanks for the suggestions on boxes.  Will definitely bear them in mind.  If we reach our target by the deadline on January 18th then we will come back to the backers towards the summer of next year when thoughts turn toward packaging.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mika on December 01, 2014, 11:45:37 am
Well then... I have finally taken the plunge and pledged for a 9-car set.
This is a wonderful project and I wanted to be a part of it. Thanks to my wife and my parents I now can (although I won't receive any birthday or Christmas presents until 2016 :-\).
I opted for the 9-car set despite not having the space because I know that I'll be fretting (right word) if at a later date I'll have a bigger layout but only a short train :-[

Here's hoping.

Thanks to Mike and Ben for that great project.
 :NGaugersRule:

All the best
Michael (#206)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on December 01, 2014, 06:45:54 pm
I like the suggestion for the Kato style boxes.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on December 01, 2014, 08:34:18 pm
The £95 DCC Sound option seems completely mad counter-productive in the context of a Kickstarter campaign. I may be wrong here, but I would imagine those who have a large enough layout for a full-length 390 will have a fair collection of stock, and I would imagine that more stock you have, the less likely you are to spend £100 on each locomotive / unit adding a sound chip. I have 30-odd locos / units / power cars and the idea of spending over £3000 to fit DCC sound is just completely out of the question. DCC sound doesn't interest me as the cost is prohibitive, particularly in British N where the cost of the chip and speaker is often more than the cost of the locomotive. I suspect I'm not alone in my way of thinking and if, for argument's sake, only two people out of 800 sign up for the sound option, then that's a grand total of £190 you'll have made from dedicating resources, time and money to this particular feature (a feature which you'll have to honour if people have pledged for it).

Really? Have you looked at the pledges so far? It's not just one or two people going down the sound route. Think of it the other way around - a lot of people are on DCC now. Call it £25 for a chip (I know some are available for less), and then that you need two of them for a full unit, so thats £50 that a number of users would incur anyway. So sounds is effectively £45, which is hardly a rip off. Why this would mean you'd have to convert everything else you own I have no idea. I have no other sound stock, (but I am running DCC) but I've pledged for a sound Pendolino, seems daft not to IMO!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on December 01, 2014, 08:53:21 pm
Also remember the sound of the engines works on DC as well regardless, you just lose the extra functions, eg door noises, horns, brake air etc

Plus there is sound in each end so two esu chips which go for £90+ each on ebay
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on December 01, 2014, 08:55:39 pm
The £95 DCC Sound option seems completely mad counter-productive in the context of a Kickstarter campaign. I may be wrong here, but I would imagine those who have a large enough layout for a full-length 390 will have a fair collection of stock, and I would imagine that more stock you have, the less likely you are to spend £100 on each locomotive / unit adding a sound chip. I have 30-odd locos / units / power cars and the idea of spending over £3000 to fit DCC sound is just completely out of the question. DCC sound doesn't interest me as the cost is prohibitive, particularly in British N where the cost of the chip and speaker is often more than the cost of the locomotive. I suspect I'm not alone in my way of thinking and if, for argument's sake, only two people out of 800 sign up for the sound option, then that's a grand total of £190 you'll have made from dedicating resources, time and money to this particular feature (a feature which you'll have to honour if people have pledged for it).

Really? Have you looked at the pledges so far? It's not just one or two people going down the sound route. Think of it the other way around - a lot of people are on DCC now. Call it £25 for a chip (I know some are available for less), and then that you need two of them for a full unit, so thats £50 that a number of users would incur anyway. So sounds is effectively £45, which is hardly a rip off. Why this would mean you'd have to convert everything else you own I have no idea. I have no other sound stock, (but I am running DCC) but I've pledged for a sound Pendolino, seems daft not to IMO!

I'd tend to agree with njee, it seems a really good deal for a sound equipped unit. Sound doesn't interest me either (it personally does my head in) but I can see the merits in it if that's you're thing. Seems to be a few people pledged for it as well. Ben and Mike have explained that it has added very little if anything to the cost as the installation is off-the-shelf.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 01, 2014, 09:09:00 pm

Hello all,

I just had a quick look and at first glance there appear to be pledges for around 75 sound fitted models, so I think we can safely say it was worth doing for those who want it.

And of course, there are non-sound versions for those who don't.

But while progress has been great - and a big thanks to all recent pledgers - still a long way to go before we approach that target!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 01, 2014, 10:00:18 pm
Also remember the sound of the engines works on DC as well regardless, you just lose the extra functions, eg door noises, horns, brake air etc

Plus there is sound in each end so two esu chips which go for £90+ each on ebay


That is not something I knew... the train will make a noise on DC.  How does that work without the chips?  How does that work at all???

That is probably worth publicising more widely as it isn't an obvious notion to those who run DC.  It could up the odd few pledges by that bit more.

That's very cool though - I am considering upping my pledge for a sound version now.

Anyhow, here's the totalizer as of the end of today:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19162.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19162)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on December 01, 2014, 10:09:32 pm
looooooooooong way to go.

I really hope we make it...........
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on December 01, 2014, 10:18:50 pm
RIGHT TO BE CLEAR

YOU STILL NEED TO PURCHASE A SOUND EQUIPPED LOCO FOR THE SOUND TO WORK on DC. So it needs the chips by pledging the extra

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 02, 2014, 12:12:12 am
RIGHT TO BE CLEAR

YOU STILL NEED TO PURCHASE A SOUND EQUIPPED LOCO FOR THE SOUND TO WORK on DC. So it needs the chips by pledging the extra

Paul

Got it. You were clear that you need to buy the sound equipped train for the sound to work on DC. I now see what you meant about the chips... If i decide i don't want the sound any more i have two chips i can sell on eBay.

But, that is very cool... A sound equipped train will make the electric equivalent of a choo-choo sound on my DC layout.  Good news for potential DC pledgers.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 02, 2014, 02:36:56 am
We finished the decorating over the weekend so I managed to get round to posting on some (seemingly) American forums (fora?)... a search for Pendolino did not come up with a similar post on any of them.

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?161438-N-Gauge-Pendolino&p=1007279#post1007279 (http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?161438-N-Gauge-Pendolino&p=1007279#post1007279)

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=25772 (http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=25772)

Ben or Mike, please let me know if you would like any modifications...

The same was submitted to another forum (currently under moderation).  More news when posted.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on December 02, 2014, 03:25:37 am
Just got confirmation that the Pendolino Flyer has been uploaded on the n_scale Yahoo site as well as the accompanying topic I posted - that has hit approx 5000 members. Okay I know a lot will be International but you never know even .5% would yield 25 pledges
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 02, 2014, 09:03:28 am

Hello all,

Thanks so much for updating those international forums - really very much appreciated.

One thing:  I am not sure I agree there is a *good* chance of Rapido going ahead anyway - all they have said is that if the Kickstarter comes close, but fails, they will have a look at how close it gets and make a decision then.  It is certainly a possibility, but nothing stronger than that, and will depend very much on the Kickstarter doing well enough to convince them there is adequate demand. 

And, of course, if the model is produced later by Rapido its sale price will be considerably more than the Kickstarter pledge level, because retailer mark up (25% minimum) will have to be added in.

Indeed, just to explain the pricing situation, and the points at which mark-ups are added:

The UK based manufacturer pays the Chinese factory £X per model.  £X is a combination of the share of the development cost, production cost and profit for the factory. 

The UK manufacturer ships the model to the UK, then sells it to retailers for £Y.  £Y includes shipping costs and the manufacturer's margin. 

Finally, the retailers sell it to the modeller for £Z.  Now £Z will vary from retailer to retailer and depends how much margin they add to that to make a fair profit for themselves while not frightening off the children.  Box shifters will make a smaller margin on lots of units, while your local store has to make a higher margin on smaller sales, so cannot match the box shifters.  But for that extra price you're buying the retailer's service: test running, sorting out problems, stocking other useful bits you need, etc etc.

Incidentally, the RRP is the price the manufacturer quotes in the catalogue, or is mentioned in magazine reviews and elsewhere.  It is usually about £Y x 2, but in model railways has now become almost meaningless.

As tax is applied consistently across the pricing I have ignored it for the purposes of this analysis. 

What we are doing is, in effect, offering our pledgers the Pendolinos at the equivalent of £Y.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ian Morton on December 02, 2014, 05:03:57 pm

Incidentally, the RRP is the price the manufacturer quotes in the catalogue, or is mentioned in magazine reviews and elsewhere.  It is usually about £Y x 2, but in model railways has now become almost meaningless.


RRP may be £Y x 2, or even higher, in other markets but certainly in model railways it is nowhere near that. Think around £Y x 1.5.

That point aside, totally true. If you want one, think you might want one or have a couple of hundred you'd like to make a good return on, pledge!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 02, 2014, 05:23:45 pm

Hi Ian,

You're correct - it has reduced recently.  I understand from retailers I have spoken to that Hornby's terms nowadays are even more parsimonious than that!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 03, 2014, 01:37:02 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19190.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19190)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 03, 2014, 09:48:17 am

Morning all,

I think we have definitely hit a slowdown with new pledges, though according to the graph we are still on course to make the total.  We are just under a quarter of the way through the pledging period (46 days of 60 remaining) and at 37% funded.

I've sent out posters and leaflets to selected traders; if any supporters on here think we have missed any  then please let me know.

There don't seem to be many exhibitions this weekend though if anyone is going to Poynton with an N Gauge layouts and wants to help let me know and I will send posters/leaflets etc.

The publicity drive should ramp up before the end of the pledging period as we are aiming to have more coverage in the main model railway magazines; however we are aware that there will be some people who tend not to read magazines or go online, but who might well be interested in pledging for a crowd-sourced model, so if you know anyone like that please mention it to them!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on December 03, 2014, 10:07:29 am
I have left flyers at the Ian Allan shop at Waterloo, and hope to cover their shop in Brum later today. I'll email you for some more flyers Ben.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on December 03, 2014, 10:23:18 am
Hello

Have the prototype magazines been informed? ie Modern Railways etc.

I presume there must be trade magazine for railway professionals too.

Have Alstom been informed?

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on December 03, 2014, 11:28:52 am

Morning all,

I think we have definitely hit a slowdown with new pledges, though according to the graph we are still on course to make the total.  We are just under a quarter of the way through the pledging period (46 days of 60 remaining) and at 37% funded.

I've sent out posters and leaflets to selected traders; if any supporters on here think we have missed any  then please let me know.

There don't seem to be many exhibitions this weekend though if anyone is going to Poynton with an N Gauge layouts and wants to help let me know and I will send posters/leaflets etc.

The publicity drive should ramp up before the end of the pledging period as we are aiming to have more coverage in the main model railway magazines; however we are aware that there will be some people who tend not to read magazines or go online, but who might well be interested in pledging for a crowd-sourced model, so if you know anyone like that please mention it to them!

cheers

Ben A.

I am at Poynton with my stand and have your flyers but if you send me a poster I will display it on my stand next to the entrance.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on December 03, 2014, 01:00:35 pm
I will also be at Poynton armed with flyers :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 03, 2014, 10:05:41 pm
The slow, steady trend continues today, and I have added a line showing the trend from teh inflection point at day 10 to today's close.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19207.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19207)

Is this too much?  Just tell me if you want me to stop posting this...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on December 03, 2014, 10:12:38 pm
Is this too much?  Just tell me if you want me to stop posting this...

Well I like it and say keep it up!  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 03, 2014, 10:19:02 pm

Hi Mustermark

No, if you don't mind please keep posting!  If it's looking good it'll cheer us up and if not it may focus minds!!

Apart from their direction, what is the difference between the forecast 1 and 2 paths?

On another note, Mike and I aren't just grateful to everyone who's pledged, but also the unsung heroes who are spreading the word for us.  If we fail because there just isn't the demand then so be it, but it would be galling to fail and then have people tell us after the event that they'd have pledged if only they'd known!!
 
As we physically can't send out posters and leaflets to every shop/exhibition etc I thought it might be helpful to offer a simple, printer friendly A4 sheet that our supporters could download and then either take to their club, or local shop, or wherever just to make sure anyone who *might* want a Pendolino can at least be made aware of the project's existence.

So here it is:

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Download it and do with it what you like!

We are also expecting a significant amount of coverage in the next issues of the model railway magazines, as these will be out in the fortnight before the pledging period ends, which could be the most crucial period.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Malc on December 03, 2014, 10:32:02 pm
N Gauge Now mag dropped through the door today with a two page spread on the project.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on December 04, 2014, 09:18:54 am
Keep the info coming Mustermark.

The drop off is to be expected, but let's not get too worried about tailing off yet. As Malc says the first of the Mags articles are appearing and I would expect more pledges after shows/exhibitions and so an upturn at weekends. I still think people will hold back a while as A) christmas "budgets" will be on peoples minds and we all know how hard Jan can be when the "real" christmas bill comes in. B) Kickstarter is new to most and so there  will be some cautious people who are probably still working the idea through.

Here I have both the Electric and Water Bills due to be  paid 20th Dec - not the best timing with Xmas as well. So my pledge will definitely not happen until the New Year when I know exactly what spare cash I have. I want a 9 car DCC but at present funds are more in the 5 car DC range. Add to this a couple of other ventures that are in the pipeline and the wallet is not getting any fatter. I don't want to pledge for something and then have to "pledge down" a level or back out. I suspect I'm not the only one. If my Ebay sales (ebay.com.au) do okay it will make all the difference.

Here's hoping  :-*
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 05, 2014, 02:26:23 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19225.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19225)

Hi Ben,

The green dashed line is the same as before... the trend from end of day 1 until the end of yesterday's close.

The blue dotted line is the trend from the end of day 10 (where the slow-down clearly starts) until the end of yesterday's close.

I think as the slow-down continues, the green trend will just get less and less relevant... I will keep that there as long as it looks meaningful. I will keep the blue dots as the current trend, i.e., if there is a clear inflection in the curve so that it takes a new turn, I will make the blue line follow the new trend.  Does that sound fair enough?

Mark.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 05, 2014, 05:46:00 am

Hi Mark,

Yes, that all makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to do the graphs, it's much appreciated. 

A couple of people have kindly offered to take/hand out leaflets at the Poynton show this weekend.  My experience of Warley is that if you speak to people you get a very positive response to the idea. 

Poynton should be a good location as its right in the heart of OHLE Pendolino country!

Beyond that, we may have some other things coming up which may provide a boost, and I am expecting something of a post Xmas surge because I totally understand that lots of people will want to get the festivities out of the way before deciding to pledge.

The slow down isn't exactly welcome, but I think it was always to be expected and while not complacent I don't think Mike and I are overly concerned at the moment; overall we're still on target.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jeff McGhie on December 05, 2014, 01:43:19 pm
Think that both trend lines have a place, the green one could be labelled as optimistic, the blue as pessimistic. I wonder what the trend would be from 0 hour?

Interestingly, the sidekick predictor linked earlier is now up to 96% chance of reaching the goal having spent couple of weeks in the low 90's.

Hopefully a post Christmas rise will hit the target.

Jeff.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MikeDunn on December 05, 2014, 06:57:58 pm
Was just thinking ... surely Forecast 1 should be from the start of Day 1, not the end ?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 05, 2014, 08:37:24 pm

Hello all,

The eagle-eyed may have spotted the banner across the foot of the forum pages.

This has been very kindly donated by Tank so not just a huge thank you to forum members for pledging but also to the forum itself for the support!

Now we just need to go on and make it happen!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on December 06, 2014, 06:59:14 am
Realise that Virgin have already been enthusiastic and is there anything more that they would be willing to help us with? E.g. would they display a poster for us at Euston, hand out leaflets, leave a leaflet on a train seat etc
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on December 06, 2014, 11:53:51 am
Was just thinking ... surely Forecast 1 should be from the start of Day 1, not the end ?

I think Mustermark has it right to ignore day one as that was a very atypical day and completely skews the trend lines, i think keeping the different trend lines is good because there are clear phases in the plot and it is fascinating to see how it will evolve.

i know of at least 4 people waiting till Christmas is gone before pledging and my 3rd or 4th set depends on hearing positive mood messages at work early next year (aka redundancies ahoy)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MikeDunn on December 06, 2014, 12:14:11 pm
I'm coming from this from a statistical point of view, not one that is prejudiced about how things are shown ...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: johnlambert on December 06, 2014, 12:35:55 pm
I left a load of leaflets with my local model shop.  The owner wasn't aware of the project and seemed interested, the leaflets were left in a stand by the till where they should be nice and visible.  Hopefully that will lead to a few more pledges.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on December 06, 2014, 12:39:42 pm
Hello all,

The eagle-eyed may have spotted the banner across the foot of the forum pages.

This has been very kindly donated by Tank so not just a huge thank you to forum members for pledging but also to the forum itself for the support!

Now we just need to go on and make it happen!

cheers

Ben A.

We're only too happy to help Ben A.  It's a great project and will certainly lead on to more great models if it's a success.  This benefits the whole hobby in the long term.  Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on December 06, 2014, 02:29:15 pm
Realise that Virgin have already been enthusiastic and is there anything more that they would be willing to help us with? E.g. would they display a poster for us at Euston, hand out leaflets, leave a leaflet on a train seat etc

More to the point, has Richard Branson pledged yet. I'm sure an 11 coach would look great on his mantelpiece :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Malc on December 06, 2014, 03:24:42 pm
BRM dropped on the mat this afternoon with a full page advert for the project.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 06, 2014, 06:49:37 pm

Hi all,

Yes, it's a measure of Rapido's enthusiasm for this project that they've taken out ads in BRM and Model Rail, while I have written an "Op Ed" item for Railway Modeller.  Let's hope this generates more support!

Was anyone at the Poynton show today?  Any tangible interest in the project?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 06, 2014, 10:23:24 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19292.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19292)

I didn't manage to post yesterday - my lovely wife took me out to dinner - but I did record the total to put into the graph for posting along with today's.

MikeDunn... I ignored the first few hours of pledging because I think that initial surge was atypical, and not really part of the post-day-one trend.  My wife agreed with me... I always do what she says, of course, but she has two degrees in statistics, so I was in no position to argue!

The 'statistics' used are least sqaures linear regressions and assume that data points are normally distributed along a staight line.  If I try to include data that is not part of a linear trend I will have to switch to using SAS JMP instead of Excel and try to fit a quadratic... then I could do all sorts of cool things like 95% confidence intervals, but I think that is probably unecessary.  I only added the forecast lines on after Zakalwe's comment that the eye can be deceived by what looks like a trend and I thought there would be a more mathematical way to see the real trend.  Hope that helps.

I think the forecasts are pretty meaningless anyway because after Xmas, that red line is going to go vertical...!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on December 06, 2014, 10:29:20 pm
As you say the slow down is to be expected, if on day 59 I was to see we were only short say £5-10k then I would pledge for another set or two to try and bump it up... Would hold onto them for six months of so then sell them on as I only need one but would buy for the cause!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 07, 2014, 12:04:57 am

Hello all,

Yes, obviously I'd love to see the pledges continuing to flood in but now is a time for steady nerves and, frankly, there is nothing  Mike, I or anyone can do but keep doing what we're doing, keep spreading the word, and let the pledge period run its course!!

I strongly suspect that the Rapido ads plus other mentions in the press will help, along with support from traders etc and there are a couple of other things we are working on to attract more pledges....

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MikeDunn on December 07, 2014, 03:23:01 pm
Cheers for the logic, MM - as with you, I won't argue with the opinion of your wife, as I have zero degrees in statistics  ::)  Although I'm very close to my Computing one now  :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on December 07, 2014, 07:49:40 pm
my favourite T shirt for when we start trialling JMP at work is:

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data



Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on December 07, 2014, 10:56:00 pm
Cheers for the logic, MM - as with you, I won't argue with the opinion of your wife, as I have zero degrees in statistics  ::)  Although I'm very close to my Computing one now  :D

Hi

How are you doing your degree? OU or actually going to University? I went back to University this year to do my Masters in Computer Science part time.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 08, 2014, 03:53:10 am
my favourite T shirt for when we start trialling JMP at work is:

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

Like it!

Reminds me of...

There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on December 08, 2014, 07:04:41 am
my favourite T shirt for when we start trialling JMP at work is:

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

Like it!

Reminds me of...

There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Love it  :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MikeDunn on December 08, 2014, 09:09:29 am
How are you doing your degree? OU or actually going to University? I went back to University this year to do my Masters in Computer Science part time.
Yeah, OU while working for a major outsourcer ...

Last curse officially starts end of Jan; the Project  :o  :doh:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on December 08, 2014, 09:45:34 am
At last we have moved off 37% funded  :claphappy: so now we are 38% funded with £79,055 pledged
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on December 08, 2014, 10:48:52 am
Last curse officially starts end of Jan; the Project  :o  :doh:

Hi

Yep that's the scary part :-) Good luck.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 08, 2014, 12:05:18 pm

Hi all,

I have been watching our progress on the Kickstarter "Sidekick" predictor - it's been over 90% for some time now; right now it's at 94%.

I think the algorithm it uses takes into account the usual pattern of late pledges, which is why it's consistently high even though there's been a bit of a lull in pledges over the last few days.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 08, 2014, 10:26:36 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19350.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19350)

I think the algorithm it uses takes into account the usual pattern of late pledges, which is why it's consistently high even though there's been a bit of a lull in pledges over the last few days.


I believe you are right Ben.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 10, 2014, 01:32:02 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19401.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19401)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 13, 2014, 10:46:20 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19478.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19478)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on December 15, 2014, 07:51:05 am
My daughter is off on a trip on a Pendolino today armed with leaflets to distribute :)

Is it time for another update on the Kickstarter page? Virgin actively tweeting, magazine coverage, Merry Christmas etc.

Merry Christmas!
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on December 15, 2014, 08:02:55 am
That great Michael - please thank your daughter from me  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 15, 2014, 03:22:06 pm

Hi Michael,

Thanks for recruiting your offspring to the cause!

We're hoping to have some interesting news in the next day or so, plus the next newsletter and a Kickstarter update.

Many thanks for the ongoing support!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on December 15, 2014, 03:57:21 pm
Hello Ben

Pleased to help :)

Turns out she's not on a Pendolino, but is distributing leaflets anyway.

She's not back at uni until a few days before the Kickstarter campaign finishes, but she will put up some posters at The Oxford Union and in Blackwells bookshop.

Maybe the pdf poster can be modified so that it says something in a large font like "last few days"

Merry Christmas and a Happy Pendolino New Year!
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on December 17, 2014, 06:17:46 pm
Support from UKmodelshops

Hi Nicholas,

Ever so sorry for not getting back to you sooner just had a lot of items in the queue for the Newsletter.
Anyway, finally found a slot for this this week for two weeks.

Hope that's okay and let me know if your spot any more.
All the best for Christmas and the New Year.

Best Regards,
Adrian Hall
----------------------------------
THE UK Model Shops Directory
----------------------------------
The LARGEST Online resource for
British Model Railway enthusiasts.
http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk (http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 17, 2014, 09:57:52 pm
PLEDGE FOR A POPPY PENDOLINO - AND HELP OUR HEROES

We are delighted to announce that the Royal British Legion has given us permission to produce a model of the "Poppy Pendolino", if there is enough demand.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19561.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19561)

Each model will depict Pendolino 390 103 "Virgin Hero" in full 11-car form carrying standard Virgin livery with correct "Poppy" embellishments, including Poppies on the nose and the cabsides, along with the Royal British Legion marque, and the words "1914-1918 We Will Remember Them" just below the windscreen.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19562.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19562)

(Photos above and below courtesy Tom Smith)

For this special model we are increasing the pledge level by £10, to £295 for the full 11-car train, of which as much as possible will be donated to support the Royal British Legion once unavoidable Kickstarter fees and payment charges have been deducted.

If we reach our goal, as soon as we know how many pledges have been made for the Poppy Pendolino we will arrange for a cheque to be presented to the Royal British Legion.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19563.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19563)

We'd like to thank "Acko", one of our supporters, for his assistance in negotiating with the Royal British Legion to make this happen.

The Royal British Legion is a registerd charity with registered charity No. 219279 (England and Wales.)

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on December 17, 2014, 11:03:15 pm
 Hi Ben,

Great news on the RBL branded Pendolino. I'm up for one and will shortly up my pledge by the requisite tender.

Halfway there on the timing....so hoping there are still a few people yet to pledge to ensure the success of this project.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 17, 2014, 11:22:22 pm

Hi Stu,

I think there are still plenty of people who are yet to pledge.  Of course, since no money is taken unless we reach our target by January 18th then it doesn't matter that much when you pledge, but I think there seems to be a psychological reluctance to pledge too soon, which I sort of understand.

We suspect that a lot of people will be waiting to get Xmas out of the way then, on December 27th, will put their feet up and think "Right, now it's time to treat myself to something."

Certainly Kickstarter's own prediction site, which uses algorithms based on past pledging patterns, time of year, etc etc to make its calculations, is giving us a 95% chance of success; that's actually higher than it was in the first few days when pledges were rising far more rapidly.

Of course, it would make planning a lot easier for Mike and I if we were sure of getting there as we are currently trying to book the laser scan people for as soon as possible after the 18th while acknowledging the possibility of a disappointing late cancellation!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 18, 2014, 12:57:44 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19571.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19571)

This doesn't include my additional pledge for a Poppy Pendo!  Very pleased that got worked out. :claphappy:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on December 18, 2014, 01:16:08 pm
As one of those who has only pledged owing to wanting to see the project be a success, another £40 for an 11 coach Pendo in Poppy livery is pushing it a bit for me, although I would much prefer my 9 coach pledge to be in this livery (also, an 11 coach on my layout would look somewhat silly :doh:)
Is the 9 coach a possibility please if the target is reached?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Dr Al on December 18, 2014, 01:21:12 pm
Certainly Kickstarter's own prediction site, which uses algorithms based on past pledging patterns, time of year, etc etc to make its calculations, is giving us a 95% chance of success; that's actually higher than it was in the first few days when pledges were rising far more rapidly.

I'm intrigued by their confidence in the success - wonder what their algorithms envisage will happen.

To me it looks like you have a lot of hard work to achieve this now that the initial feeding frenzy is over - I mean you are going to need at least 300 more backers it looks like - that sounds like a heck of a lot to me!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on December 18, 2014, 01:24:49 pm
PLEDGE FOR A POPPY PENDOLINO - AND HELP OUR HEROES

We are delighted to announce that the Royal British Legion has given us permission to produce a model of the "Poppy Pendolino", if there is enough demand.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19561.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19561[/url])

Each model will depict Pendolino 390 103 "Virgin Hero" in full 11-car form carrying standard Virgin livery with correct "Poppy" embellishments, including Poppies on the nose and the cabsides, along with the Royal British Legion marque, and the words "1914-1918 We Will Remember Them" just below the windscreen.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19562.JPG[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19562[/url])

(Photos above and below courtesy Tom Smith)

For this special model we are increasing the pledge level by £10, to £295 for the full 11-car train, of which as much as possible will be donated to support the Royal British Legion once unavoidable Kickstarter fees and payment charges have been deducted.

If we reach our goal, as soon as we know how many pledges have been made for the Poppy Pendolino we will arrange for a cheque to be presented to the Royal British Legion.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19563.JPG[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19563[/url])

We'd like to thank "Acko", one of our supporters, for his assistance in negotiating with the Royal British Legion to make this happen.

The Royal British Legion is a registerd charity with registered charity No. 219279 (England and Wales.)

cheers

Ben A.


How do I pledge for that Ben, there isn't a separate option in the list of pledges. Do I just alter my pledge to £305 (£295 + £10 postage)?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on December 18, 2014, 04:04:28 pm
Hi folks

If you have already pledged for an 11-car set (or more) then just add £10 to your pledge (you can change your pledge at any point up to the 18 January). There is no need to amend your reward level.

If you haven't pledged yet, but would like to please go to our Kickstarter project page here (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge). I've created a pledge level specifically for the RBL Poppy 390.

As before, if you wish to pledge for multiple sets please add together the costs of the individual sets and add the appropriate postage & packing fees (on our website front page or in the FAQ section at the bottom of the Kickstarter page).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on December 18, 2014, 05:52:31 pm
I've pledged the extra Tenner for the RBL set, but could'nt see the new RBL entry.

Nick R
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on December 18, 2014, 06:16:34 pm
Hi Nick

It is the set for £295. Drop me a PM with your surname and I will check if you have the correct reward (as I can't see anyone called Nick down for a Poppy set yet).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on December 18, 2014, 06:21:39 pm
I've increased my pledge from £255 to £295 for the Poppylino.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 18, 2014, 09:37:23 pm
I'm intrigued by their confidence in the success - wonder what their algorithms envisage will happen.

To me it looks like you have a lot of hard work to achieve this now that the initial feeding frenzy is over - I mean you are going to need at least 300 more backers it looks like - that sounds like a heck of a lot to me!

Cheers,
Alan

Hi Alan

I couldn't agree more - thee is still a huge amount to do.  In the next issue of Railway Modeller (out 5 days before the pledge period ends) there is an op-ed piece drawing attention to the project, plus we are planning to do as much as we can to generate interest at shows in the time left available, particularly St Albans the weekend before the deadline on January 18th.

My own feeling is that if we fail due to lack of interest, or lack of appetite for this style of project from other N Gauge modellers, then I will be disappointed but will just have to accept it.  However, to fail due to a lack of awareness would be much harder to accept, as we will all forever wonder "what might have been."

For this reason I continue to urge anyone who supports us just to tell a few other people - make your local model shop aware, tell other people at the club, keep mentioning it on other forums, join the debate to keep the topic near the top of any forum boards.

For example: we had a meeting of the NGS Northants and Cambs area group last weekend to work on our layouts Horseley Fields (see separate thread) and Crowland Green.  Of the eight or so N Gauge modellers there - people who know me personally - four, including one trader, were unaware of the project.  I think it is very easy to get sucked into the idea that if we are talking about it here, or on RM Web, then everyone must know about it, but I don't think that is the case.

In terms of the Kickstarter algorithms, I have no idea how they are calculated, or more to the point what measure of accuracy their predictions have.  However, retailers have told me that there is a lull in the run up to Christmas and often a surge afterward, as others are taken care of and it's time to spend Xmas money and "treat oneself."

There is also a quite understandable instinct to "wait and see" before committing; even though as Mike and I have explained many times, no money is taken until after the deadline, and even then only if we reach the full amount required.  The evidence for that comes from our own statistics:  Mike handles the website but has previously told me that of those who registered with us for the newsletter etc (and, presumably, more than averagely interested) fewer than half have actually pledged so far.

So I remain optimistic but not complacent; willing to do all I can to make this happen and, at the end, determined to know that whether we succeed or whether we fail, it will not be for want of application or effort!

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on December 18, 2014, 10:01:15 pm
My local MP is on the Transport Select Committee, a supporter of HS2, a Virgin Pendolino user  -  so she has received the Pendolino Kickstarter package from me today. We still need over £120k by 18 January. Her networks are bigger and different from mine so why not try to use them. And the election is only 5 months away......
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 19, 2014, 12:01:58 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19581.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19581)

The Poppylino Effect?

My pledge is now for one plain 11-car and one poppy 11-car.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on December 19, 2014, 01:40:22 am
Do we have any visibility on Rapido direct pre-orders?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on December 19, 2014, 07:58:37 am
I too have changed my plain 11 car to an 11 car Poppylino.(I really like that nickname!)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on December 19, 2014, 09:08:46 am
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/35/thumb_19581.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19581[/url])


Mustermark,

Forecasts 1 and 2 are beginning to converge so I think you should change it. We are expecting an up inflection towards the end so don't see the point of the two unoptomistic forecasts. Either have only one forecast or a forecast from hour zero and from the end of day 1 (your current forecast 1, I think). Will be interesting to see an hour zero forecast and maybe this will encourage people to believe that the goal is reachable.

Cheers,

Brooksy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on December 19, 2014, 10:48:29 am
As one of those who has only pledged owing to wanting to see the project be a success, another £40 for an 11 coach Pendo in Poppy livery is pushing it a bit for me, although I would much prefer my 9 coach pledge to be in this livery (also, an 11 coach on my layout would look somewhat silly :doh:)
Is the 9 coach a possibility please if the target is reached?

Could Mike or Ben please clarify this?
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on December 19, 2014, 11:14:29 am
Hi Mick

Sorry I missed that.  Short answer - no, I'm afraid we are not planning to do a 9-car version.

Two reasons: firstly that we really don't want to produce inaccurate sets/liveries. The second and perhaps most important point is project creep - the original idea was to produce a 9-car set and that was it.  That has already split into 2-car add on pack, 5-car short set, 9-car and 11-car - the later 3 with sound options and now livery options.

The best thing I can suggest for people who would like a Poppy liveried "short" (ie less than 11-car!) set is to pledge for it and see if you can sell a couple of the coaches (the most sensible pair to remove would be U and F which were the additional coaches and you could sell them to someone who wanted to model one of the delivery trains).

Sorry, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on December 19, 2014, 12:01:09 pm
Thanks, Mike.
Being pig ignorant about these multi coloured worms I wasn't aware the Poppy livery was restricted to the 11 car :dunce:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on December 19, 2014, 07:38:15 pm
Two things perhaps I have missed in the diferent posts ,
1  How much is being donated to the British Legion per set of the Poppy liveried sets.
2   Will the model tilt Now that Rapido Trains will be the manufacturer.

This model is realy way out of my Era although I'm now beginning to stretch to modern units as I must admit they do look good streaking through the stations on a lot of layouts I see at Exhibitions and my mates have now started to run modern stuff such as a class 70 on our weekly meetings .
.Could Ben or Mike do an update as to the specification in a simple list so that it is made crystal clear what we can expect .
I know nothing is cast in stone yet but it might help .
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on December 19, 2014, 07:58:47 pm
Thanks, Mike.
Being pig ignorant about these multi coloured worms I wasn't aware the Poppy livery was restricted to the 11 car :dunce:

It is with that running number to do a 9 car set they will have to find the correct numbered unit and produce 2 units one 9 and the other 11. May reduce the numbers to the point here neither gets done.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 19, 2014, 08:49:06 pm

Hi all,

Bob, in answer to your question about specifications at the moment we are clear on these:

Directional lights and illuminated table lamps in first
Motor in each end car with low profile drive - chassis similar to that in Rapido GMD-1.  The model I have had to test (and which is currently with CJM) offers performance better than anything I have seen except the best Kato.
Windows smoked as per prototype.
Cab end car to be laser scanned to be sure distinctive nose profile is accurate and with removable panel so coupler can be fitted for "drags."
All wheel pick up in trailer cars.
Possible electrical power transferred through train, but not using tricky couplers as per Arnold.
RP25 wheel sets with US back-to-back.

There are a few things not decided yet around couplers, interiors etc but Rapido have a reputation for quality and they won't want to put their name to something that doesn't stand up.

Re donations to the Royal British Legion:  it's very difficult to know how much of the £10 we can actually give them, as Kickstarter will deduct their fees, their payment processing charges and there may be tax and currency exchange issues. What I can say is that it will be as much as is left after all outside deductions are made, and as soon as we know what it is we will let everyone who pledged for the Poppy Pendo know. 

Re running numbers:  as far as I am aware the Poppy Pendo has only run in such guise as an 11-car set.  We gave an undertaking that our product would be an accurate scale model so shorter sets wouldn't be correct. Also we don't want to overcomplicate matters, as Mike has explained. 

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on December 19, 2014, 09:36:54 pm
Thankyou Ben that is kind of you to respond so quickly but you still didn't mention wether it will tilt or not I assume it will as Rapido have the means to do so and I believe some other continental N Gauge models do .If so I might be able to persuade SWMBO to get the family to buy the Poppylino for next Christmas / Birthday as they did with the Brighton Belle this year,
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: robert shrives on December 19, 2014, 09:39:41 pm
Hi Ben,
Thanks for all the info, I too have seen project creep now pledged for 9 car and the Poppylino.... so lets hope the projected post crimbo second breath clinches project.

Robert
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on December 19, 2014, 10:07:13 pm
Thankyou Ben that is kind of you to respond so quickly but you still didn't mention wether it will tilt or not I assume it will as Rapido have the means to do so and I believe some other continental N Gauge models do .If so I might be able to persuade SWMBO to get the family to buy the Poppylino for next Christmas / Birthday as they did with the Brighton Belle this year,
Bob

Bob

I think that tilt went off the specification when it was found that using the mechanical system (like on the Fleischmann ICE-T) the train would tilt going through any curve even at low speed, such as through a crossover. This would be unrealistic. The tilt angle in N only amounts to about 1mm at cant rail level and would be barely noticeable unless exaggerated as on the ICE-T model.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on December 19, 2014, 10:41:55 pm
 :thankyousign: Woodbury22uk that's  a shame but I still might persuade SWMBO to pledge for one  if I'm a good boy and do the washing up and the Hoovering Etc While she is at work ,and look after the puppy  cook dinner  and anything else she adds to the list .
On second thoughts I might not have time to run it on the layout with all that work to do Ha Ha Who said being retired was a good thing, I don't know how I managed to fit actually working for a living in .
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 19, 2014, 10:50:01 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_19599.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19599)

At the half-way point, timewise.

This will be the last graph for a few days...
In the morning we are driving down to Savannah for a few days' romantic screen-free holiday :bounce:  so no iPad, no laptop. 

Will be back late on Xmas Eve, having saved the figures for the totals at the end of each day on my iPhone >:D  and will post as soon as I can get to it on Xmas Day (feed cats, make coffee, present opening, bacon butty, read the forum pages... you know the routine).
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on December 19, 2014, 11:01:34 pm
I think that tilt went off the specification when it was found that using the mechanical system (like on the Fleischmann ICE-T) the train would tilt going through any curve even at low speed, such as through a crossover. This would be unrealistic. The tilt angle in N only amounts to about 1mm at cant rail level and would be barely noticeable unless exaggerated as on the ICE-T model.

or you can buy the Kato banked track sections!

(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g181/railwaygun/NGF/IMG_1545_zps356d29f8.jpg)

unless you are riding the APT (allegedly) the canting is unnoticeable and in N gauge infinitesimal

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 20, 2014, 12:00:40 am

Hi Bob,

As others have pointed out, we have moved away from specifying tilt.

In N, any practical way of achieving it would involve some kind of mechanical system that would be dependent on bogie swing and therefore make the tilt more pronounced the sharper the curve.

However, on the prototype the tilt is only activated to allow the train to travel through curves faster without passengers' coffee being spilled.  It is activated by trackside sensors, and only in certain locations.  When I travelled to Manchester from Milton Keynes recently I was had expected the tilt to be activated more often.

And of course, on sharp, slow curves or on the station approaches there is no tilting at all.  Yet we felt these would be the circumstances in which most people would be running their models - and any tilting model would inevitably lurch crazily from side to side as it negotiates trainset curves and pointwork.

So at the moment the consensus is to avoid tilt, however if there are other points of view we'd be happy to hear them!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on December 20, 2014, 10:50:09 am
 :thankyousign: Ben and others who replied to my question I still think I might be able to persuade Val to pledge for the Poppylino as I said before it will mean I will have to do a lot more housework will see what happens after Christmas and if the rest of the family will put together to find the money I DONT want to pledge and then let everyone down by having to cancel.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 20, 2014, 01:59:54 pm

Hello all,

Just to be clear:  although it would he helpful to us to seem to be reaching the target sooner, in terms of the final result it doesn't matter how late anyone pledges - as long as they do it before the deadline then if we make our target they're in, and if we don't it's all irrelevant anyway.

What I'd suggest is registering without any obligation at our website www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com) and you'll receive updates and, of course, reminders nearer the time to make sure you don't inadvertently miss out!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on December 20, 2014, 10:29:58 pm
Something I've looked for but can't seem to find an answer: -

The spec says inclusion of Decoder socket and space for a speaker, but will the appropriate sound decoder be available after the successful launch. I guess any of the "normal" 6/8 pin decoders will fit the socket. Whilst the price is good an extra £90 makes a difference between 5 car with Sound and a 9 car without

It may help for this to be clarified as some may then be more tempted to buy knowing they can upgrade the features later. Likewise with carriage lighting.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on December 20, 2014, 11:05:30 pm
Only 6 pin decoders fit N gauge units, how much of a premium you will pay for a sound decoder after pledge with correct sounds, is anyones guess, however with the option to purchase a unit with sound at both ends for a saving that equates to at least £90 based on cost of esu decoders its well worth it!!

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 20, 2014, 11:07:43 pm
Hi,

I don't know a huge amount sound decoders; I don't know if any manufacturer will produce one or not - I guess that's a question for them.  Certainly Rapido don't do stand-alone sound decoders themselves.

What we can say is that the models will have DCC sockets to make fitting any decoders - sound or otherwise - as simple as possible.

The table lamps in first will be illuminated on all  models.  Interior coach lighting will probably be a variation on Rapido's "Easy-Peasy" coach lighting units, but this has not been finalised.  I have noticed that due to the heavily smoked nature of the windows on the real thing that interiors are hardly visible, though the table lights are as they are next to the windows.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on December 21, 2014, 01:39:32 am
The sound files will be produced by Legomanbiffo (based on an upgraded version of the Pendolino sounds he already does - available through DC Kits). So, I'm sure Ian (Legomanbiffo) will be able to create sound decoders in the future, but (this is a big but) they will be unlikely to be the same decoders that Rapido use for the factory fitted decoders.

The current plan is to use a custom programmed decoder almost certainly based on an ESU Loksound Select decoder (not the same as the ESU Loksound Micro), but Rapido reserve the right to change the decoder as production is finalised as they are aware of at least one new decoder in the pipeline which might be more suitable.  IIRC the Loksound Select is roughly the same features as the Micro, but it is much more restricted in terms of re-programming with new sound files (hence why it is cheaper than a pair of Loksound Micros).

I think as a result it is highly unlikely that Rapido will want to (or be able to) sell the custom decoders in the future as they will be produced as required for the orders for the project.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on December 22, 2014, 04:14:13 pm
I've upgraded to a 11 car Pendolino with poppies  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on December 22, 2014, 08:31:47 pm
90k! WOO!

do we have any nbumbers for rapido for overseas bods?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on December 24, 2014, 08:41:14 am
Hi Ben and Mike.

I've just discovered this forum:

http://mrlforum.co.uk/forums/ (http://mrlforum.co.uk/forums/)

I could not find anything by search about whether you'd posted here or not, but if you're not aware of it it might be worth a look for drumming up more awareness......
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on December 24, 2014, 11:56:01 am
I've upgraded to a 11 car Pendolino with poppies  :)

Me too. Looks like next Christmas I may have to eat my cat :worried:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on December 24, 2014, 03:58:01 pm
Hi Ben and Mike.

I've just discovered this forum:

[url]http://mrlforum.co.uk/forums/[/url] ([url]http://mrlforum.co.uk/forums/[/url])

I could not find anything by search about whether you'd posted here or not, but if you're not aware of it it might be worth a look for drumming up more awareness......


I did post on this forum just before and on the day of the launch. It isn't hugely active but I do know of one member who is also a member of my local club who has ordered. I'm still trying to get him to order another one!  :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on December 24, 2014, 04:56:24 pm
Two years ago David Lund was taking readers through the creation of a 3D printed Pendolino on RMWeb. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92432-n-gauge-class-390-pendolino-kickstarter-with-rapido/page-13 (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92432-n-gauge-class-390-pendolino-kickstarter-with-rapido/page-13)

This video shows the train running on David's Cross Street layout.

N Gauge Pendolino Test Run (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3pFHOahYGQ#ws)

It makes an inspiring sight running through the superb layout scenery which also provides the backdrop for many of David's later 3D on-track-plant creations shown on his website. http://www.modernimagemodels.co.uk/ (http://www.modernimagemodels.co.uk/)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 24, 2014, 07:33:03 pm

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_19830.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19830)

Christmas Greetings to all!

Steady pledging over the last few days (and since we announced we were offering the Poppy version) has seen us reach £94K, or 45% pledged.

Many thanks to all who've supported us - and to those yet to do so. 

Let's make 2015 the year of the Pendolino in N, and the year modellers did it for themselves!
 
cheers
 
Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 25, 2014, 01:12:30 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_19833.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19833)

Got back a bit early...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 25, 2014, 02:10:21 am
Two years ago David Lund was taking readers through the creation of a 3D printed Pendolino on RMWeb. [url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92432-n-gauge-class-390-pendolino-kickstarter-with-rapido/page-13[/url] ([url]http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92432-n-gauge-class-390-pendolino-kickstarter-with-rapido/page-13[/url])
It makes an inspiring sight running through the superb layout scenery which also provides the backdrop for many of David's later 3D on-track-plant creations shown on his website. [url]http://www.modernimagemodels.co.uk/[/url] ([url]http://www.modernimagemodels.co.uk/[/url])


Thanks woodbury.  Great clip of the 3D printed Pendolino running through a great layout.  David Lund's other layout, Ring Road, is one of my favourite layouts.

And thanks also for the pointer to Acko's Christmas Poppy pledge matching on the same page (p13) as your link.

I already pledged for my Poppylino, but anyone else who is considering the Poppylino might choose to pledge today and double their RBL contribution on Xmas day.

Kudos to Acko for getting the Poppylino off the ground, and for the Xmas fundraiser. :thumbsup: :beers:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 25, 2014, 04:54:24 pm

Hello all,
 
Rapido have just posted a video of their GMD-1 loco with sound.  Although obviously not identical to the Pendo, there are lots of aspects of the well-designed chassis that we would be using.  And although the sounds are completely different, the ESU Loksound decoder itself is the same or very similar, and certainly the sound quality achieved by Rapido in their factory fitted model is impressive:
 
https://www.youtube (https://www.youtube)....h?v=SOCS3gOz-U8
 
cheers and merry Xmas
 
Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ditape on December 25, 2014, 05:16:38 pm
The above link does not work :help:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JBQFC on December 25, 2014, 05:56:55 pm
hope this works

http://youtu.be/SOCS3gOz-U8 (http://youtu.be/SOCS3gOz-U8)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on December 27, 2014, 06:10:53 am
Well I've pledged on the Rapido website.  Must remember that the amount WILL be taken and I must not exceed my monthly credit limit in the mean time.
As a previoue poster I too would be intereseted in the pledges via Rapido.  Also are Rapido guaranteeing the 200 even if I was the only one to pledge via them? That is they have 200 as stock to sell as and when?
The very best of luck guys.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 28, 2014, 12:28:12 pm
Hello all,

Apologies for the duff link in my previous post, and big thanks to JBQFC for posting the right one.

Trev: Rapido are not guaranteeing their 200 - they will only proceed if the Kickstarter campaign succeeds or gets very close.  This isn't unknown - they usually ask for pre-orders and only proceed if there is adequate interest.  Most recently Rapido announced then cancelled some liveries of FP9A locomotives: see here: http://rapidotrains.com/fp9_paint2.html (http://rapidotrains.com/fp9_paint2.html)

The only reason Rapido agreed to come in for 200 was to make the Kickstarter campaign more achievable.  The base premise is that we need to show there is demand for 1000 models -nominally 200 via Rapido and 800 via Kickstarter.  There will be some leeway, but not much.  In terms of levels of orders with Rapido I will find out nearer the time.

Incidentally, the NGS website now has a news item on the project, with a link to a downloadable PDF data sheet here:

http://www.ngaugesociety.com/Pendolino%20brochure%20A4%20printer%20friendly%20download.pdf (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/Pendolino%20brochure%20A4%20printer%20friendly%20download.pdf)

We are now just under 2/3 of the way through the pledging period, with 21 days to go.  When I last looked we were at £97k pledged by 265 backers, with with a success prediction of 91%.  The predictions are done in real time - and before Xmas it was briefly up to 99% - and my understanding is that the algorithm works by analysing previous pledging patterns.   Certainly most kickstarter projects seem to have late surges - the question is, will our late surge be enough to reach the target?

Remember, pledges are just pledges - no money is taken unless we reach the full target amount by January 18th.

If you're interested in pledging, and don't want to accidentally miss the deadline, just register without obligation at our website http://www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com) and we will send you a timely email reminder!

Any other questions please ask!

cheers and all the best for 2015,

Ben A.

 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on December 28, 2014, 04:55:37 pm
Hello all,

Apologies for the duff link in my previous post, and big thanks to JBQFC for posting the right one.

Trev: Rapido are not guaranteeing their 200 - they will only proceed if the Kickstarter campaign succeeds or gets very close.  This isn't unknown - they usually ask for pre-orders and only proceed if there is adequate interest.  Most recently Rapido announced then cancelled some liveries of FP9A locomotives: see here: [url]http://rapidotrains.com/fp9_paint2.html[/url] ([url]http://rapidotrains.com/fp9_paint2.html[/url])

The only reason Rapido agreed to come in for 200 was to make the Kickstarter campaign more achievable.  The base premise is that we need to show there is demand for 1000 models -nominally 200 via Rapido and 800 via Kickstarter.  There will be some leeway, but not much.  In terms of levels of orders with Rapido I will find out nearer the time.

Incidentally, the NGS website now has a news item on the project, with a link to a downloadable PDF data sheet here:

[url]http://www.ngaugesociety.com/Pendolino%20brochure%20A4%20printer%20friendly%20download.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugesociety.com/Pendolino%20brochure%20A4%20printer%20friendly%20download.pdf[/url])

We are now just under 2/3 of the way through the pledging period, with 21 days to go.  When I last looked we were at £97k pledged by 265 backers, with with a success prediction of 91%.  The predictions are done in real time - and before Xmas it was briefly up to 99% - and my understanding is that the algorithm works by analysing previous pledging patterns.   Certainly most kickstarter projects seem to have late surges - the question is, will our late surge be enough to reach the target?

Remember, pledges are just pledges - no money is taken unless we reach the full target amount by January 18th.

If you're interested in pledging, and don't want to accidentally miss the deadline, just register without obligation at our website [url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugependolino.com[/url]) and we will send you a timely email reminder!

Any other questions please ask!

cheers and all the best for 2015,

Ben A.


 :thankyousign:  Ben,   your reply was informative and answered my query.

Here's holding thumbs and anything else to get to the target.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on December 29, 2014, 05:21:17 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_19968.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19968)

The slope has increased a little (since the Poppylino was announced?).  The surge will start any day now....
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on December 29, 2014, 05:59:41 pm
OK so I just pledged for my 2 and now we're over 100,000 pounds.

(I should have bought from Rapido but I'm using my son's address in Manchester, if we get well over target I'll reduce my pledge and send some business to Rapido directly)

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on December 29, 2014, 06:16:09 pm

Hello all,

Yes, delighted to see we are through the £100k mark!

But I'm being realistic - we are less than three weeks to go before the deadline, and still less than half funded.  I imagine there will be a surge but I suspect we need every last pledge to get over the line.

I did wonder if we had made it clear that not only will the models not get made if we don't make the target, but if we do, we won't take an additional orders after the deadline closes - meaning that the only people who get models (at least, for the first two years minimum) are those who support the project by pledging.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on December 29, 2014, 07:26:53 pm
My daughter left leaflets on a train before Christmas

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_19969.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=19969)

Let's make a big push to the finish line!

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 02, 2015, 04:33:57 pm
Actually over the halfway mark now. Just need 289 more pledges of the same size to get there.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_20057.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20057)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jonny on January 02, 2015, 05:17:29 pm
I've done my bit and pledged for an 11 car.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: K-N-Gauge on January 02, 2015, 05:33:04 pm
i get paid on the 16th i will be pledging then :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 02, 2015, 06:50:48 pm

Hi all,

50% there!  This is of course a big milestone but does underline what we still need to do!  Same again!

I have been thinking about why we aren't already at our target, when surely there must be at least 1000 people who want a Pendolino in N in the whole of the UK.

I think one issue might be knowledge - although forums such as this are a great way for modellers to communicate, there are many who don't know about them or aren't interested.

To reach these people we've been fortunate enough to receive lots of press coverage and I have also emailed all the leaders of the N Gauge Society Area groups listed on the website to urge them to let their members know about the project.

However, I can only do so much; I would kindly request that anyone on this forum who supports us, or who knows someone who might be interested in pledging, should just contact them directly - email, telephone, club meeting - and explain what the scheme is about.  Also, please emphasise the urgency:  We need pledgers to reach our total, plus if we make it *only* those who pledge before the deadline will get models.  There are no prizes for sitting on the fence.

There also appears to be something of a reluctance to put money upfront.  I can understand that, and normally we don't have to, but the Pendolino is a special case:  because of the relatively small market (1,000 sales is all we need - typically a manufacturer needs projected sales of at least 3-5,000 to proceed) and the complexities of the model.  So this one is different, and requires a different approach.

And if it succeeds it does change the paradigm and will give us all a boost when it comes to other "less obvious" models...

With 289 backers now, if every person who has pledged could convince just one other person to pledge then we would be much closer!

So if you are supporting us and have pledged - thanks, now can you please convince someone else to do the same!

And if you haven't pledged yet - please pledge!

Incidentally, I will have some more news about the Pendo later on - something that may convince any reluctant pledgers to go with this...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 02, 2015, 07:57:08 pm
i get paid on the 16th i will be pledging then :)

Why don't you pledge now? If we succeed the money won't be taken until the 18th anyway so it makes no difference......

Another pledge is more movement in the total.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 02, 2015, 09:20:14 pm
i get paid on the 16th i will be pledging then :)

Why don't you pledge now? If we succeed the money won't be taken until the 18th anyway so it makes no difference......

Another pledge is more movement in the total.
I agree.  I only get paid on the 28th and pledged on 26th Dec [my Dec salary was paid 15th Dec]. As ScottyStitch says - no monies taken until after 18th Jan.  Perhaps as Ben says, maybe some people are reluctant to commit and subsequently pay well in advance of receiving the goods. I know I'm reluctant but I've done it  :claphappy:

Please everyone I \ we need this project to succeed -  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on January 02, 2015, 09:35:45 pm
Perhaps as Ben says, maybe some people are reluctant to commit and subsequently pay well in advance of receiving the goods.

Hi

Yes I think that is a significant barrier to a lot of people.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Graham on January 02, 2015, 10:40:03 pm
sure this question may have been asked before but here goes. Have just pledged for 2 x 11 coach sets, (1 x Poppylino), site only allows me to select either 11 coach set, and not both, assume we will be asked for confirmation of numbers etc. for 2nd set.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 02, 2015, 10:53:16 pm
Just need to pledge the total amount for two sets plus the postage and the guys will be in contact to confirm exactly what you wanted :)

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 02, 2015, 11:36:24 pm

Hi Graham

Paul's right - just pledge for the 2 units you want (with the extra £10 for the British Legion for the Poppylino) and then, if we reach our target, once the project is underway we will contact everyone individually to confirm what they want. 

Then, we will move into the process of letting everyone vote on which ten units we are doing and then selecting which ones they want, though this probably won't happen until the tooling work is underway.

And of course each of these stages (CAD drawings, tooling shots, livery selection) will be accompanied by a flurry of press releases and similar coverage to build excitement, and create excitement among those who missed out to create an instant market for any of our backers who wish to pledge speculatively with a view to recouping and making a profit on eBay.

I do agree that there is a significant reluctance among British modellers to embrace the pre-order system that is now relatively common in the US and elsewhere.  I understand this if the manufacturer is relatively untested, but Rapido have an excellent reputation.  Their OO APT-E looks superb, has gone from 3D scan in May to first samples at Warley in November, with delivery on schedule for early next year.

I am confident our Pendolino will be on schedule too, and you could look at it this way:  invest in a model now, and sell it in a year for at least what you paid and probably 20% more - and where else could you get 20% return in a year right now?  Not in an ISA or a savings account!!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 02, 2015, 11:48:02 pm

Hello all,


CJM PLEDGES FOR A PENDOLINO!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_20077.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20077)

We are delighted to say that Chris Marchant of CJM has given his full backing to the N Gauge Pendolino project, having been sent a Rapido GMD-1 chassis to test after the Warley National Model Railway show.

Chris Marchant established CJM in 1987 to create bespoke, high specification N gauge models aimed at the modern image enthusiast.  IN the early 1990s he was asked to assist in construction of the large Channel Tunnel display layout, and assisted Kato in production of their Eurostar while developing his own Class 92.

Since then CJM has produced Classes 56, 59, 60, 66, 67 and most recently the Class 50 to his own design and each individual customer's specification in livery, identity and weathering.  CJM models are not cheap - retailing at around £500+ - but offer superb levels of finish and detailing.

For more information about CJM see here: http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/ (http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/)

The GMD-1 is Rapido's first N-scale loco and features powerful motor, smooth low-friction drive and directional lighting.  DC and DCC Sound versions are being produced.

The model has a similar drivetrain and specification to that proposed for the Pendolino, though with the larger full width bodyshell the Pendolino will probably have a bigger, more powerful motor.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_20079.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20079)  (Photo courtesy J Portal/Model Rail)

Chris tested the GMD-1 on a large 30' x 13' model he is building for a customer that represents Lancaster in the present day.  He tested the model on 13 "out of the box" RTR coaches against brand new items from Farish, Dapol and Kato.   Only the Kato locomotive was able to match its performance.  Chris says:  "In continuous running tests failed to show any weaknesses, even over a prolonged period of running. Test running back at CJM subjectively suggested it was now smoother and quieter than when it first arrived!

"In terms of detail and finish the model looked exceptionally good, with some very fine etched grills and step details, the injection moulded parts and printing looking very crisp!"

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_20078.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20078)  (Photo courtesy CJM Studio)

Chris says he'll be urging any of his customers who want a Pendolino to support the project, and can see the potential for crowd-funding in the future, adding:  "It is fair to say that if this project succeeds then it opens the door to a wide range of N gauge models which have so far gone unnoticed!"

We are now at £106k funded, so just over halfway, with just over a fortnight left until our DEADLINE of JANUARY 18th. We had hoped to be nearer the target by now, so there is obviously something holding people back. Just to reiterate:

* The Pendolino isn't going to come from the major manufacturers - projected sales v the cost of tooling for this complex vehicle don't stack up, sadly. In the US and elsewhere crowd-funding or pre-order systems are fairly standard now.

* If you pledge now NO MONEY IS TAKEN unless we reach our FULL TOTAL target by JANUARY 18th.

* If we fall short the project won't happen, unless we get very close in which case Rapido might proceed anyway, but the model will be at least 25% more expensive as they will distribute it via retailers

* If we succeed then we will produce ONLY the models pledged for - there will be no chance to jump on board later. And Rapido have undertaken not to use the tooling to produce more models for at least two years. If you don't want to miss out now then register at our website http://www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com) and we will send out a reminder if you don't want to pledge now.

* If we can fund a model in this way we will be the first and will make model railway history. This model will have unique packaging and will be highly collectable in years to come.

* Even if you don't want a Pendolino why not pledge as an investment? For a year you'll have the excitement of being part of something new, and when you receive your model you can just eBay it. Given the amount of excitement that will be generated by then, and the number of people who will want one, it shouldn't be hard to sell for at least a small profit - and in percentage terms probably more than you'd get leaving money in a savings account or an ISA!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: REGP on January 03, 2015, 02:48:49 pm
Ben

I have followed this project with interest every since it was announced, but despite rereading most your posts, I am still not clear regarding a couple of points, they are:

Do Rapido's sales (preorders/pledges) count towards the £200K target shown on Kickstarter or are they in addition?

If they do count towards the £200= Kickstarter's target, when are they added to the pledges indicated on Kickstarter?

Ray
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 03, 2015, 04:05:54 pm

Hi Ray

Sorry if it's unclear and thanks for asking the question.

The original target with DJM was 1000 models at £250 each giving a Kickstarter total of 250k to pay for tooling and production.

Rapido offered us a slightly different deal but the headline news was that they would subsidise 200 models and sell them internationally, meaning our Kickstarter target went down to equivalent 800 models/£210k and so was significantly more achievable.

So in direct answer to your question:  Rapido's 200 models are not included in the Kickstarter, however in practical terms if we get close to the target (say 90-95%) and Rapido find their sales are doing OK then I hope Rapido will decide to press ahead anyway, as they have hinted they might.  Hovever this would almost certainly be at the higher £320 price point (for 9-cars; others if available altered proportionately.)  We would also be at the mercy of their own funding model; whereas if the Kickstarter succeeds then we have the money to simply drive the project forward immediately.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: REGP on January 03, 2015, 04:43:56 pm
Thanks Ben, that's much clearer now.

Ray
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 03, 2015, 05:33:18 pm
Have TMC been approached? Perhaps they would be interested in detailing and (lightly) weathering some......
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 03, 2015, 06:14:37 pm

Hello all,

As we look toward mounting the "final push" to the finish line, upcoming shows could be critical.

Today there was the Marlow and Maidenhead MRC exhibition - did anyone with any flyers go?

Next weekend (Jan 10th/11th) we have:

Chiltern MRC (St Albans)

Bognor Regis MRC, Bognor

Orpington and District MRC


Then on the final weekend we have:

Astolat (Guildford)

Harpenden

Pennine (Huddersfield)

Canterbury

Kilmarnock

Bentley (Calne)

E Lancs (Blackburn)

There is the potential for reaching an awful lot of modellers at these shows, so let's really give it our best shot.

I know quite a few of our supporters still have flyers and are planning to attend various shows now; can I please have a "virtual" show of hands (PM is fine) so I can see who is where, and where I need to try to recruit backers.

And if anyone has flyers but, for whatever reason, does not think they will be able to use them please let me know and I will try to arrange more useful distribuition!

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: free debt man on January 03, 2015, 07:51:30 pm
I will be at Calne (Bentley Model Railway Group) with Tim Hitch & friends running Choates Lane our modern N Gauge layout. I will be happy to decorate the front of the layout with the latest Pendolino posters, & put the word out. Ben, or Mike will send them to me as my address is in the N Gauge Society Journal............won't you?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on January 03, 2015, 08:31:47 pm
The last of my flyers will be dished out at the East Lancs show but I'd appreciate any details on that show if anyone has them please
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 04, 2015, 05:27:58 pm
£100000 left to win thanks to the 300th pledge.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_20115.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20115)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: linuxyeti on January 04, 2015, 06:05:37 pm
Hi All

Would so much like to pledge, just tiiming is not right.  The money is to be taken out before the next payday after xmas, providing enough pledges have been made, if the project had been timed to finish at the end of Jan, or the first week in Feb, I would have been able to pledge,I suspect there may be others in the same boat.

Can the deadline be extended?

Cheers

Tony
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: austinbob on January 04, 2015, 06:07:33 pm
Just an observation..
The Pendolino is not for me - its not my era. But, you guys are trying so hard for this project to succeed I really do hope you make it work.

Happy New Year and here's to a successful outcome.
 :beers:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 04, 2015, 06:08:25 pm
Hi All

Would so much like to pledge, just tiiming is not right.  The money is to be taken out before the next payday after xmas, providing enough pledges have been made, if the project had been timed to finish at the end of Jan, or the first week in Feb, I would have been able to pledge,I suspect there may be others in the same boat.

Can the deadline be extended?

Cheers

Tony

I'm certain that kickstarter rules are strict on the length of time the project is open for Tony...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on January 04, 2015, 06:48:47 pm
Hi All

Would so much like to pledge, just tiiming is not right.  The money is to be taken out before the next payday after xmas, providing enough pledges have been made, if the project had been timed to finish at the end of Jan, or the first week in Feb, I would have been able to pledge,I suspect there may be others in the same boat.

Can the deadline be extended?

Cheers

Tony

Hi

Unfortunately someone somewhere would make the same comments no matter when it was run.

As far as I am aware this is the longest a Kickstarter campaign can last for and cannot be extended.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on January 04, 2015, 07:00:24 pm
If it is not your era or location or timing is wrong could I suggest that you at least give something. Money, era and location are all wrong for me so I have backed it at the base level and uptted my pledge to £10, depending on cash near the end I may try to give more if it helps. If everyone on here gave a tenner it would certainly help the overall cause.

So please everyone not directly interested give £10 it will help n gauge, who knows what will be next!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: austinbob on January 04, 2015, 07:08:16 pm
If it is not your era or location or timing is wrong could I suggest that you at least give something. Money, era and location are all wrong for me so I have backed it at the base level and uptted my pledge to £10, depending on cash near the end I may try to give more if it helps. If everyone on here gave a tenner it would certainly help the overall cause.

So please everyone not directly interested give £10 it will help n gauge, who knows what will be next!!

I would like to do just that - but I don't seem to be able to get the pledge page to work - help please?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on January 04, 2015, 07:13:51 pm
If it is not your era or location or timing is wrong could I suggest that you at least give something. Money, era and location are all wrong for me so I have backed it at the base level and uptted my pledge to £10, depending on cash near the end I may try to give more if it helps. If everyone on here gave a tenner it would certainly help the overall cause.

So please everyone not directly interested give £10 it will help n gauge, who knows what will be next!!

I would like to do just that - but I don't seem to be able to get the pledge page to work - help please?

Not sure what is wrong as I can not check as I have already pledged.

go to https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge)

and click on £2 level and it should take you through the system, if in doubt leave it for a few minutes and try again.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: austinbob on January 04, 2015, 07:23:04 pm
go to https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840142652/pendolino-uk-n-gauge)
and click on £2 level and it should take you through the system, if in doubt leave it for a few minutes and try again.
That worked fine - pledge made - good luck and I hope it works out. :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on January 04, 2015, 08:43:24 pm
Would so much like to pledge, just tiiming is not right.  The money is to be taken out before the next payday after xmas, providing enough pledges have been made

Maybe make the pledge on a credit card if funds are tight at the moment. Then you can pay off the credit card after payday.  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 04, 2015, 09:43:20 pm
Would so much like to pledge, just tiiming is not right.  The money is to be taken out before the next payday after xmas, providing enough pledges have been made

Maybe make the pledge on a credit card if funds are tight at the moment. Then you can pay off the credit card after payday.  :hmmm:

in the words of a certain loaf of meat, you took the words right out of my mouth.....
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: johnlambert on January 04, 2015, 11:03:44 pm
Upped my pledge and found a thread about the project on another (non railway) forum, which I've updated with the latest on the project. 

Really hope the project succeeds; £100,000 sounds like a lot of money but if 300 people raised the first £110,000 it doesn't seem like an impossible task.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on January 04, 2015, 11:45:45 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/34/thumb_20133.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20133)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ASFC on January 06, 2015, 01:10:49 am
I want an iconic train-BP wrong era, Eurostar all out of stock.....

Damn it I have pledged! 9 car set here we go...plus I need some January excitement as the countdown approaches.

Fingers crossed, toes crossed etc.

 :laugh3: :dunce:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 06, 2015, 11:22:19 pm

Hello all,
 
In reply to a couple of PMs, emails and other requests about increasing pledges, or pledging for more than one unit, I have pasted this from our Newsletter #3:
 
Pledging for multiple sets

Kickstarter is not ideal for people wishing to pledge for multiple sets or for rewards of two different types. If you wish to order more than one set (and there is not a bundle set up on Kickstarter) then please add together the costs of the sets and add on P&P as follows:
 •2 sets P&P to the UK is £15 (not £20) or the EU £25
 •3 sets P&P to the UK is £20 or the EU £30
 •4 sets P&P to the UK is £25 or to the EU £35
 
If you want to change your pledge then when you log in to Kickstarter use the "amend pledge" button to do so, and this can be done at any time up to the deadline of January 18th.
 
We would also request that if you haven't already please register at our website www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com) when you pledge - this will make it much simpler for us to contact you quickly once the pledging period is over to establish what, exactly, you do want and will take you barely 30 seconds.
 
cheers
 
Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MalcolmInN on January 07, 2015, 01:28:09 am
Woa!
Way too complicated ! So many options !!
Sorry but i have only just learned that (I think ! ) I can donate a tenner or whatever to the good cause ( being firmly embedied in the steam era, I have no idea what a Pendolino is!)

but I am still mystified why DJM was cast aside ?
I would love to contribute, whatever, to the entry of a new UK manufacturer into the ummm cauldron ! ,, BUT

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: DELETED on January 07, 2015, 03:05:37 am
Unfortunately I'm not going to invest.

...However I saw my very first Pendolino a couple of months ago while I was "down south" and they do look a nice train to travel on!!!!  (I always get stuck on 158's for 4 hours rather then 170's).  I saw it out the window of a dilapidated Metrolink DMU as it passed.

Kickstarter puts me off personally, if it is'nt in stock I don't buy, I don't have cc's or any pre-order interest for anything.

I have seen the effort invested in this and watched over the weeks and wish you all the very best for this project though!!!!!!!!!!!!  Hope it works out for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 07, 2015, 07:08:50 am
but I am still mystified why DJM was cast aside ?
I would love to contribute, whatever, to the entry of a new UK manufacturer into the ummm cauldron ! ,, BUT

The answer to that was very simple - we had to pick the best and most achievable deal on the table. DJM's minimum order would have been 1000 sets, Rapido asked us to fund 800.

In terms of UK manufacturer - all the manufacturing is done in China whether that is DJM, Rapido, Farish or a.n.other. Don't forget that Ben and I are very much UK based and are putting in a lot of the work for this - essentially we are ready to push the button for the project to happen (we have Alstom's plans and we have a Pendolino lined up for 3D scanning).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 07, 2015, 10:04:38 am

Hi Malcolm,

We have the highest regard for DJM and are confident his ongoing projects are gong to be excellent for N Gauge.

However, when we were still at a relatively early stage we were offered a better deal by Rapido as explained by Mike above.

We thought long and hard about it, and it would've been easier to stick with DJM.

But we felt that the Rapido deal - offering a lower pledge total, factory fitted DCC sound (a first for British N) and Rapidos clear enthusiasm and keenness to get into the British market - offered a better bet for our potential backers.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on January 07, 2015, 08:13:16 pm
wow it's really steaming along now :D nearly 125k!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 07, 2015, 08:23:05 pm
c'mon c'mon c'mon c'mon!!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 07, 2015, 09:25:22 pm

Hi RST,

No probs - the decision to pledge is absolutely up to the individual.

The good news is that last time I looked we were up to £123K and accelerating, so we might just make it.

And then you will be able to buy a Pemdolino from one of our pledgers who is buying to sell later on.  Though, of course, you may end up paying a little more but that's your privilege!

Cheers

ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on January 07, 2015, 10:21:55 pm
I'd still be intersted in hearing what the overseas pre-order looks like through Rapido :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 07, 2015, 10:35:20 pm
To be honest Mick, we don't know.  Our focus has been on making sure that the project goes ahead and for that to happen we need to get the Kickstarter campaign over the line.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on January 09, 2015, 09:29:44 am
 :poop: end to the week - bloody ute blew its head gasket this arvo.

Estimated bill of  $750 plus for repair. It's not so much the bill - it means I'm stuffed for transport next week and no transport means no work

! NO WORK = NO MONEY. Pledge for train just got knackered unless I find some extra from somewhere.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 09, 2015, 09:46:55 am
Just heard from my rental agent that a leak in a flat is due to pipe leak in my investment property  :(  Just had ADT round, need a stronger radio so the alarm signal can be picked up by their control centre.  Just waiting for the irrigation company to visit re my irrigation system - more money going west  :worried:  And this is AFTER I had paid for the Dapol ATW full set and Kato storage boxes and of course I had already pledged for the Pendo 9 car with DCC and sound.  A #@&% start to 2015.  It can only go further downhill and that's me the optimist :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 09, 2015, 05:15:48 pm
Hello all,

While not 100% relevant due to its scale I found this review of Rapido's latest HO loco interesting, and a good indicator of the kind of quality and precision I feel Rapido will bring to this project.

http://acmodels.boards.net/thread/194/rapido-f40ph-2d-review (http://acmodels.boards.net/thread/194/rapido-f40ph-2d-review)

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jond on January 09, 2015, 06:12:20 pm
I've taken the plunge and backed this project - for 1 x 9 car set...

Regards
Jon
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 11, 2015, 07:15:01 pm

Hello all,
 
As we go into the last week of pledging we are approaching 2/3 pledged, so still some way to go.  When I checked just now we are at 350 backers, with £132K (63%) pledged.
 
Let's hope we see a surge in the final week to get us to the finish line!
 
cheers
 
Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on January 11, 2015, 09:10:36 pm
Distributed the last few flyers today. They've been going out on Pendo trips over the last month, and the last handful got left at Bletchley Booking-on Point today. There's a surprising number of closet railway modellers amongst the staff!  ;D £132k is a fantastic achievement so far and Ben and Mike have IMHO done a great job in showing that there is a good demand for this model.  :thumbsup: Hope springs eternal for the sucess of this project!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 11, 2015, 09:35:34 pm
Saw Ben earlier today, confidance is high, lets hope all the closet modellers and the last minute pledgers appear soon :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 12, 2015, 02:13:31 am
Distributed the last few flyers today. They've been going out on Pendo trips over the last month, and the last handful got left at Bletchley Booking-on Point today. There's a surprising number of closet railway modellers amongst the staff!  ;D £132k is a fantastic achievement so far and Ben and Mike have IMHO done a great job in showing that there is a good demand for this model.  :thumbsup: Hope springs eternal for the sucess of this project!

Just seen that the pledge total has fallen back to 131,960 pounds, as it was late yesterday before it went upto the 132,000.  I hope this is a glitch and not someone's change of mind.

I agree overall Ben and Mike are to be congratulated on their work for this project.  May it succeed.   :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on January 12, 2015, 02:21:08 am
Just seen that the pledge total has fallen back to 131,960 pounds, as it was late yesterday before it went upto the 132,000.  I hope this is a glitch and not someone's change of mind.

£40 could be a change of not going for a poppy version
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 12, 2015, 07:35:09 am

Hi all,

I've noticed a couple of times the leading total slips back as people amend their choices. It's usually not so noticeable when the "big number" stays the same... I think it's just a normal part of the ebb and flow of such a scheme, especially as we enter the final stages.

Either way I'd like to thank all our supporters and encourage anyone who has been holding back to sign up now.

If you have backed us, or are thinking of joining us, I would strongly urge you to  take a moment to sign up at our website.  This is without obligation, but will enable us to send your a reminder nearer the time and will also ensure you are kept informed of any other developments.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on January 12, 2015, 02:42:14 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/33/thumb_20361.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20361)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mika on January 12, 2015, 07:36:36 pm
Although I don't have the space I added another two coaches (or 30GBP if you prefer) to my pledge.
Also I want to thank Ben and Mike for making this happen. :thankyousign:

Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: REGP on January 12, 2015, 08:06:33 pm
It's not my Era
It's not my Region
I can't run a 9 car train
I never spend that amount
So I pledged for one anyway
Because it's a great idea &  model

Ray
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on January 12, 2015, 09:27:32 pm
It's not my Era
It's not my Region
I can't run a 9 car train
I never spend that amount
So I pledged for one anyway
Because it's a great idea &  model

Ray

Agreed
Agreed
Can just about make it.
Agreed (although I did shell out £ for the BP when it was released)
So did I, on the basis I would sell it on. But then those buggers Ben & Mike added the 11 car 'Poppylino' and, being so proud of all our military personnel everywhere, I just had to up my pledge and if the project is successful I reckon I'll now keep it.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 12, 2015, 09:32:54 pm
Your dream may well come true! :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 15, 2015, 12:35:41 am
Hi All just added my pledge for a complete 11-car Pendolino set in RBL Poppy livery 390103 Virgin Hero. I really do hope this all comes good.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 15, 2015, 01:20:20 am

Hello all,
 
Over 145K pledged now, 69% of the target with just under four full days of pledging left until the deadline on Sunday evening at 2200G.
 
It's going right to the wire...
 
cheers
 
Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 15, 2015, 09:05:59 am
It's not my Era
It's not my Region
I can't run a 9 car train
I never spend that amount
So I pledged for one anyway
Because it's a great idea &  model

Ray

Agreed
Agreed
Can just about make it.
Agreed (although I did shell out £ for the BP when it was released)
So did I, on the basis I would sell it on. But then those buggers Ben & Mike added the 11 car 'Poppylino' and, being so proud of all our military personnel everywhere, I just had to up my pledge and if the project is successful I reckon I'll now keep it.

Agreed
Agreed
I can run an 11 car train but see above
I did buy the BP
So did I, and PendoPoppy is a wee bit special, so what the hey?!
Agreed
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 15, 2015, 09:16:42 am
C'mon folks it's time for that final push, lets get on our Facebooks, pinterests, twitters, emails. Anything to try and get a few more pledges.

Maybe your parents or children or siblings could be in a position to pledge, make an investment, even for a five car or even two car packs. We're at the stage where every pound could make a difference to the outcome. How you or they view the risk is entirely up to you, but to my and a lot of other people's mind, it's barely minimal. Even if it's not your era or interest, should this succeed you're almost guaranteed to make your money back at least.

It succeeds, and your model could be next for kickstarter.

Good luck Ben and Mike, and everyone who has pledged for one because it's their era and their area and thewy want one for their layouts.....

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 15, 2015, 09:38:03 am
I had a look at the pledges yesterday, and at that time, the breakdown of the sets pledged for looks like this:
 
 
 
2 car - 7       1.75%
 
5 car - 22     5.61%
 
9 car - 195   49.74%
 
11 car - 168 42.9%
 
 
 
Sound and non-sound have been lumped together as my aim was to see what length trains people are pledging for. non reward pledges have been excluded.
 
 
 
This surprised me a bit as I thought there would have been more 5 cars pledged for, as there are many people with layouts that wouldnt support a full length Pendo. Pleasantly surprised.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 15, 2015, 09:47:24 am
Just buy that extra set, hold onto it for six months and sell it on, thus making some of your original money back, helping to increase the pledge count and making your own cheaper :)

** I know there are people who will read this and say... Oh NO you cant buy to make a profit...? WHY NOT ??? If you want one at the cheaper price I'm going to get mine at then pledge NOW !!! and quit the moaning  :-X, by me buying more than I need it helps to get the pledge closer to the amount required in order to make the £210K requirement for the model to be made.  Then down the line someone who may want one in a years time will luckily find mine on Ebay and will pay a premium for not putting their money in now when they had the chance.. :jawdropping:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 15, 2015, 10:01:15 am
Just buy that extra set, hold onto it for six months and sell it on, thus making some of your original money back, helping to increase the pledge count and making your own cheaper :)

** I know there are people who will read this and say... Oh NO you cant buy to make a profit...? WHY NOT ??? If you want one at the cheaper price I'm going to get mine at then pledge NOW !!! and quit the moaning  :-X, by me buying more than I need it helps to get the pledge closer to the amount required in order to make the £210K requirement for the model to be made.  Then down the line someone who may want one in a years time will luckily find mine on Ebay and will pay a premium for not putting their money in now when they had the chance.. :jawdropping:

Completely correct, and as I said on RMWeb, when you sell your surplus you put it on ebay at a starting price to break even on that set. Market forces then take over. If people bid higher than your starting price, that's their choice.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 15, 2015, 10:04:45 am
I'm planning on using the "AntiqueToys" Structure if I ever get round to selling :D, I do however have this problem where everything I buy stays put...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 15, 2015, 11:06:52 am
Anyone know how to alter your pledge as I have pledged for a 11 car set and would like to change it for two 5 car sets. Bur cannot seem to be able to alter it. I did cancel for the 11 car set and added for the 5 car set but cannot add the same set again. Any suggestions please.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on January 15, 2015, 11:07:14 am
Also, consider making a loss on the purchase of a second set if it is a model that you REALLY want to have (although as has been pointed out several times the received opinion is that it will be at least break even). If you make a loss of say £50 on the second set then you will still have the first model at approximately the cost of one set at retail prices . Of course this is all great if you have the spare cash to tie up for a year or two, unfortunately I don't, but I can encourage those who maybe do to make it happen.

I've got all my fingers and toes crossed for the final few days.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jond on January 15, 2015, 11:13:24 am
Anyone know how to alter your pledge as I have pledged for a 11 car set and would like to change it for two 5 car sets. Bur cannot seem to be able to alter it. I did cancel for the 11 car set and added for the 5 car set but cannot add the same set again. Any suggestions please.

You need to pledge the amount it would cost for 2 sets (plus I believe £15 p&p for 2 sets) - tick the 5 car unit option first as that resets the pledge amount.

Then you'll be contacted anyway about your final choice, or just drop a message to the organisers.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 15, 2015, 11:18:29 am
Thanks for the help will give it a go. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: talisman56 on January 16, 2015, 01:17:51 am
Totally out of my timescale...
Totally out of my area...
Totally interested in the Kickstarter concept and wanting the project to succeed...
...now totally out of my mind as I've just pledged for a 9-car set.  :o

What will happen if SWMBO finds out...  :dighole:

As previous posters have said, it'll look good on a mantlepiece or I can sell it to get money back for things I really need for my layout.

3 days to go, £59,000 still needed - don't give up yet!


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on January 16, 2015, 07:18:07 am
I'm sure this question has already been answered. I have pledged for a 11 car poppylino but am considering getting the five car one as well (so I can run a nine car and a seven car train to fit on my layout) How do I do this?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 16, 2015, 07:32:27 am

Hello all,

Jond above has given a pretty good explanation of the steps you take to alter or amend your pledge.

Can I just add that it would benefit us if you would register withiut obligation at our website.  This way we have your email address to sort these details out later as it's not completely apparent that Kickstarter will provide such information when the pledge period closes.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 16, 2015, 08:04:57 am
I had a look at the pledges yesterday, and at that time, the breakdown of the sets pledged for looks like this:
 
 
 
2 car - 7       1.75%
 
5 car - 22     5.61%
 
9 car - 195   49.74%
 
11 car - 168 42.9%
 
 
 
Sound and non-sound have been lumped together as my aim was to see what length trains people are pledging for. non reward pledges have been excluded.
 
 
 
This surprised me a bit as I thought there would have been more 5 cars pledged for, as there are many people with layouts that wouldnt support a full length Pendo. Pleasantly surprised.

2 days on (and 2 to go) it now looks like this:

2 car - 9       2.15%
 
5 car - 27     6.42%
 
9 car - 204   48.57%
 
11 car - 180 42.86%

72% funded and £150,997 pledged from 390 backers.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 16, 2015, 12:01:24 pm

Hello all,

With two and a half days left for pledging, the Kickstarter total is at £152,500. We're still £57,500 short, and would need pledges equivalent to £23,000 per day to reach the total.

That's still possible, but while Mike, Jason and I are still fervently hoping that we will reach our Kickstarter target, with this in mind we would be foolish not to at least have a back-up plan ready.

INTRODUCING "PENDO PLAN B"

I am delighted to say that Jason and the team at Rapido have taken the decision that the £150K pledged so far is enough to justify this model being produced whether or not the Kickstarter campaign reaches the target.

And the even-better news is that, as a reward to those who got us here, Rapido have very generously agreed that anyone who pledges by the deadline will be eligible for the significantly discounted Kickstarter prices.

Orders taken after the deadline will be at a higher price which we will announced should the Kickstarter fail.

If you have pledged, please also register at our website www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com) to ensure you can take advantage of the Plan B offer for pledgers.

If your Kickstarter identity is not immediately apparent (a small number of then Kickstarter profiles do not have obvious names) then please let us know so we can match up email addresses to backers so we can later ensure every backer receives the models they are entitled to.

Pledging for the Kickstarter does not commit you to taking up the subsequent offer to buy models via Plan B.

The model will be produced according to our original schedule and is expected to be delivered early in 2016. The first step will be laser scanning the Pendolino in late January.

Having said that, if we can succeed with the Kickstarter it will be an amazing achievement and set a significant precedent for other ideas and projects.

We are also very proud to say that so far we've had well over 50 pledges for the Poppy Pendolino, meaning that at least £500 should be raised for the Royal British Legion.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Calnefoxile on January 16, 2015, 12:17:35 pm
Ben, Mike et al,

 :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:

Brilliant news, whilst I was and am unable to pledge, purely for financial reasons, I am so happy for everyone involved that this has come to fruition.

Congratulations on all your hard work and perseverance in bringing this to market, and well done to Jason at Rapido, for realising that even though Kickstarter has fallen slightly short of the full target the Pendolino should be a fantastic model to produce.

Once again well done.

Regards

Neal.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 16, 2015, 12:26:28 pm
I was wondering when you were going to break the news Ben,


It's been a real tough task keeping my mouth shut :D :D :D


WELL DONE ALL THOSE INVOLVED IN THIS EPIC NEW MODEL AND BIG THANK YOU TO RAPIDO FOR THEIR COMMITMENT TO THE PROJECT!!

Paul.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trkilliman on January 16, 2015, 12:29:06 pm
The Pendolino is not my thing, being firmly into steam, W.R. & L.M.  I do however seriously hope that you get a last minute rush that swells your orders. Certainly had it have been a County, 47xx or 72xx as example I would have been pledging, but maybe something along these lines (no pun intended) will emerge in the future. Good luck with this venture though guys!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: REGP on January 16, 2015, 12:29:41 pm
WOW!!!!!!   :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:

What a result, well done Ben, Mike, Jason et al.

Ray
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on January 16, 2015, 12:35:22 pm
Excellent!  :claphappy: :bounce: :claphappy:

Well done to all involved.

Neal.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Vonzack on January 16, 2015, 12:47:06 pm
Thanks Ben / Mike for all your hard work and for making this happen. Also thanks to everybody who has pledged via the Kickstarter, proving that there is a market for the model.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on January 16, 2015, 12:54:35 pm
I'm so pleased that Ben & Mike's hard work has come to fruition with the help of Rapido.
Well done, guys, and thanks to all who have pledged.
Off now to rob a bank for the cost of the Poppylino I pledged for :worried:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Smiffy on January 16, 2015, 01:03:15 pm
Great news about "Plan B".  BUT still hope the Kickstarter can limp over the line to prove the method
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 16, 2015, 01:27:01 pm

Smiffy,

Agreed. I am still very keen indeed for the Kickstarter to succeed as it sets an exciting precedent. Nonetheless, once I knew that we'd done enough to convince Rapido to do the model anyway, and got them to agree to the preferential prices for our backers, I thought it only fair to let everyone know.

It certainly means this weekend won't be as stressful as it might've been!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Michael Shillabeer on January 16, 2015, 01:29:36 pm
Well done Ben and Mike! and Jason too!

If plan B is executed will Rapido be funding development or would they like payment in advance?

Best regards
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 16, 2015, 01:36:19 pm
Well done Ben, Mike and Jason. You have made an oler man very happy. This is a fantastic result, and one I had not expected to see less than 6 months after starting the topic on here.

I am really delighted by the response to the Kickstarter and I would still like to see us reach over £200k to demonstrate the validity of the Kickstarter concept.  I am upping my pledge to help a bit with this.

The sun is shining brightly here and I hope that it will continue to shine on this ambitious, well thought through and very exciting project.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 16, 2015, 01:38:39 pm
I think it is still worth mentioning that we still have just under 2.5 days left for the Kickstarter campaign and it is not impossible that we could still reach the target! It would be great if we could!

One of the reasons for announcing plan B just before the end was that we hoped it might provide the final incentive for people to pledge.

Cheers, Mike



Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 16, 2015, 01:41:25 pm
I'm sure this question has already been answered. I have pledged for a 11 car poppylino but am considering getting the five car one as well (so I can run a nine car and a seven car train to fit on my layout) How do I do this?

The simplest way is to add on the relevant amount (incl P&P - details on front page of our website and in the FAQs on the Kickstarter page) to your existing pledge - Kickstarter is rubbish at dealing with pledges for different rewards!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 16, 2015, 01:47:49 pm
If plan B is executed will Rapido be funding development or would they like payment in advance?

Hi Mike

We are still finalising all the details, but if plan B is necessary then there will be a relatively limited period for Kickstarter backers to take up the offer of the Kickstarter prices - with the option of a 50% deposit or full payment.  Pre-orders will also be opened up to non-Kickstarter backers at a higher price but probably still less than Rapido's eventual RRP (to be decided).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 16, 2015, 03:02:56 pm
Bob

If you pledge and we reach our target on Sunday then the money would be taken by Kickstarter almost immediately (they say any time from when the campaign ends to 14 days later).

If you pledge and we don't reach our Kickstarter target then in plan B we will offer a facility for paying 50% deposits (or the full amount if people prefer) for a limited period of time (probably 1-2 months max) for Kickstarter backers.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 16, 2015, 03:25:26 pm
Thanks Mike if the money won't be taken immediately ie Sunday then when Val gets home from work I will get her to give bank details and pledge tonight as I said its a cash flow problem this month Mother in Law was going to help pay as next years Christmas/ Birthday present but obviously she now says the house is more important so she said no to anything till we get the bill for the roof and the leak in the bathroom.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on January 16, 2015, 03:39:57 pm
If short-term cash flow is the problem, maybe consider pledging on a credit card. That would then give you a month or so to pay off the balance.

Please remember, I am a modeller, not a financial advisor.  ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jonny on January 16, 2015, 03:51:21 pm
The credit card idea is a good one but what if you don't have one. Then that isn't an option
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on January 16, 2015, 04:03:20 pm
I'm sure this question has already been answered. I have pledged for a 11 car poppylino but am considering getting the five car one as well (so I can run a nine car and a seven car train to fit on my layout) How do I do this?

The simplest way is to add on the relevant amount (incl P&P - details on front page of our website and in the FAQs on the Kickstarter page) to your existing pledge - Kickstarter is rubbish at dealing with pledges for different rewards!

Cheers, Mike

I believe anything less than an 11 car Poppylino is not accurate, though (or have I misunderstood?)  Quote from Mike in reply #634............

Hi Mick

Sorry I missed that.  Short answer - no, I'm afraid we are not planning to do a 9-car version.

Two reasons: firstly that we really don't want to produce inaccurate sets/liveries. The second and perhaps most important point is project creep.

Sorry - but all this is outside my area of knowledge :dunce:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 16, 2015, 04:22:45 pm
390103 is definitely an 11 car set (and what we will be producing!). Of course what the modeller does with his or her coaches is entirely upto him/her!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 16, 2015, 05:39:19 pm
We don't have a credit card ,only a debit card but I don't think the Kickstarter  will reach the target so plan B will be better for me I will pledge for a Poppylino and if the Kick starter does reach its target then we  will have to eat baked beans on toast for a week or two .
Will pledge when Val gets home tonight can't miss out now .
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 16, 2015, 07:06:24 pm
Must say I'm pleased!!! at the prospect of paying out for the Pendo.
A question to Ben / Mike.  I am in South Africa and pledged via the Rapido web page.  Am I registered with them for plan B already?  Do I need to register on the Pendo web page?  I do get the Pendo newsletters so I assume I have registered there!

Just been on the Pendo web page but I notice the financial values e.g. amount pledged; postage; days to go are all blank!  Maybe an IT issue at my end :confused1:

Again well done guys.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 16, 2015, 07:25:21 pm
A question to Ben / Mike.  I am in South Africa and pledged via the Rapido web page.  Am I registered with them for plan B already?  Do I need to register on the Pendo web page?  I do get the Pendo newsletters so I assume I have registered there!

Just been on the Pendo web page but I notice the financial values e.g. amount pledged; postage; days to go are all blank!  Maybe an IT issue at my end :confused1:

Hi Trev

I'm assuming that Rapido will still want (and be happy!) to deal with non-European orders. Either way we'll make sure no one misses out.

If you are receiving newsletters then you are "registered" (we seem to have caused a bit of confusion about what we mean by sign up/register for our website - just fill in the short form (on most pages on the RH side below the Kickstarter figures - which still appear for me!) with your name and email address).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 16, 2015, 08:42:28 pm
Thanks Mike  :thankyousign:
I'll await communication from either Kickstarter or Rapido.
And I can now see the figures on the website.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on January 16, 2015, 09:22:25 pm
awesome news chaps, thats win win :)

all the hard work from Ben, Mike and Jason has had a positive outcome

made my week after a really tough one at work
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Wave on January 16, 2015, 09:44:06 pm
Cracking news !

Well done to Ben, Mike & Rapido for making this happen. Let's hope the Kickstarter total is met too !!

One quick question though. I pledged £400 back in December. Does this qualify for a Poppylino with sound, or are these only non-DCC & soundless ?

Looking forward to 2016 already !!

Cheers - Wave
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on January 16, 2015, 09:51:17 pm
One quick question though. I pledged £400 back in December. Does this qualify for a Poppylino with sound, or are these only non-DCC & soundless ?

Hi

I hope so as that is the same pledge as mine.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 16, 2015, 10:55:33 pm
Well done to all have just pledged for 11 car set roll on 2016
 regards Derek
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 16, 2015, 11:32:10 pm
One quick question though. I pledged £400 back in December. Does this qualify for a Poppylino with sound, or are these only non-DCC & soundless ?

Yes, it does.  We couldn't put every possible combination on KS as things just became too confusing!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 16, 2015, 11:37:50 pm
One quick question though. I pledged £400 back in December. Does this qualify for a Poppylino with sound, or are these only non-DCC & soundless ?

Yes, it does.  We couldn't put every possible combination on KS as things just became too confusing!

Cheers, Mike

This answered my question as well will up my pledge. But with sound fitted do you need anything else to hear the sound etc. I have never considered sound so just wanted to make sure I have got the right information before I up the pledge.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on January 16, 2015, 11:42:45 pm
Help - just had a mate ring and ask about pledging for a couple to ship to Australia, but cant find info on the Rapido site.
Not an issue for me as mine is coming through the UK anyway

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 16, 2015, 11:51:36 pm

Hi trains,

Go to the Rapido website, click on the UK Models tab, then select N gauge and then click on the icon representing the model you want to order.

Come back to us if you have problems.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 16, 2015, 11:54:57 pm
One quick question though. I pledged £400 back in December. Does this qualify for a Poppylino with sound, or are these only non-DCC & soundless ?

Yes, it does.  We couldn't put every possible combination on KS as things just became too confusing!

Cheers, Mike

This answered my question as well will up my pledge. But with sound fitted do you need anything else to hear the sound etc. I have never considered sound so just wanted to make sure I have got the right information before I up the pledge.

If you run DCC you have a full selection of different sounds available using the function keys. If not and you run DC you only get the sounds related to the loco speed, as on DC you have no way of telling the sound decoder what sounds you wish to hear.

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on January 17, 2015, 01:01:48 am
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/33/thumb_20426.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20426)

Here comes the surge... I bet if I used JMP and fitted a quadratic, we would find an exponential curve fit.  It's looking very promising.

Awesome job, and congratulations on the great news from Rapido.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on January 17, 2015, 02:01:21 am
I had to cancel my poppylino pledge, sadly.

Will be paid on the 23rd, will I be able to buy from rapido there without a pledge?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mirrlees on January 17, 2015, 07:09:42 am
Pledge updated to an 11 car.

Dear Mike, my credit card hates you but I like you !

 :ngauge:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mika on January 17, 2015, 07:41:17 am
Wonderful news!
Although I really hope that the kickstarter succeeds, Plan B is really reassuring. So thanks once again to Ben and Mike for making this happen and to Jason for offering the backup.
 :thankyousign: :NGaugersRule:
Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Wave on January 17, 2015, 08:39:57 am
One quick question though. I pledged £400 back in December. Does this qualify for a Poppylino with sound, or are these only non-DCC & soundless ?

Yes, it does.  We couldn't put every possible combination on KS as things just became too confusing!

Cheers, Mike

Cool... !

Cheers for getting back so quickly Mike

Now I have all the incentive I need to build something for it to run on....
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JonHarbour on January 17, 2015, 10:28:30 am
Don't model anything more modern than BR Late Crest.... but it didn't stop me from ordering a 9-car set with DCC sound from Rapido as I can't pledge from outside the EU. Opens up a whole new era for me I suppose, but this is something that ultimately proved impossible to resist! Next question is how do I know which one I will get.... is that a question for Rapido directly?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ahodgett on January 17, 2015, 11:25:31 am
Absolutely wonderful result, congratulations to everyone involved, especially to Ben, Mike and Jason. I would have been happy with a plan B which paid the pledges direct to Rapido on the 20th, I would even have been happy to have a monthly s/o for 12 months to cover the cost, but to get the reduced price when it's ready is the best it could be. To all at Rapido, I hope this means we will hear a lot more of your name in all the Uk gauges.

Can we try a kickstarter for the N gauge APT to see if it's a goer too, but give us a few months to recover financially first ?

A very happy bunny.

Arthur Hodgett 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tony G on January 17, 2015, 11:36:13 am
Absolutely wonderful result, congratulations to everyone involved, especially to Ben, Mike and Jason. I would have been happy with a plan B which paid the pledges direct to Rapido on the 20th, I would even have been happy to have a monthly s/o for 12 months to cover the cost, but to get the reduced price when it's ready is the best it could be. To all at Rapido, I hope this means we will hear a lot more of your name in all the Uk gauges.

Can we try a kickstarter for the N gauge APT to see if it's a goer too, but give us a few months to recover financially first ?

A very happy bunny.

Arthur Hodgett

I was thinking something similar like a co-adventure with Rapido for the APT-E, if we can show enough interest maybe they will be inclined to also produce it in N-gauge seeing as they are already working one in 00. But like many modellers I would be also happy to see a APT-P but let the wallet recover first  :D

Regards Tony
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ahodgett on January 17, 2015, 11:50:57 am
Hi Tony.

I was wondering if there are many common parts between the two (at N gauge level of detail) or would it need a completely different set of tooling? I'm not really familair with the details other than as an icon of modern railways in UK.

Arthur
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: captainelectra on January 17, 2015, 12:10:07 pm
Over the moon to hear about "Plan B". Well done to Ben, Mike and everyone else involved in making the dream become a reality.  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 17, 2015, 01:35:43 pm
I had to cancel my poppylino pledge, sadly.

Will be paid on the 23rd, will I be able to buy from rapido there without a pledge?

Hi Mickjsg

If the Kickstarter succeeds the money is taken by Kickstarter over the following fortnight, so you may be OK in any event, but we won't be taking any more orders at all.  Of course, another backer may have pledged for a "spare" Poppy Pendolino and may sell it to you.

If the Kickstarter fails then there we will take further orders for all models, however they will be at a higher price.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jond on January 17, 2015, 01:54:01 pm

As a kickstarter "backer" for this project, should kickstarter fail, when it comes to placing orders can I increase the number of units ordered (or change my chosen sets) and still get them for the kickstarter price ?


Thanks
Jon
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 17, 2015, 01:59:43 pm

As a kickstarter "backer" for this project, should kickstarter fail, when it comes to placing orders can I increase the number of units ordered (or change my chosen sets) and still get them for the kickstarter price ?


Thanks
Jon

Hi Jon

Good question.  We want to be fair to our backers, and reward their support, but at the same time we don't want to disincentivise the scheme as a whole.

If the Kickstarter succeeds then we will be taking no further orders from anyone, so it's a moot point, but if Plan B comes into effect then we will be allowing more orders, albeit as you identified at a higher price.

I think the answer is that we all have to show some common sense; for example if youv've pledged for 2 x 9-car units and want a third I don't see why that would be a problem, however if you only pledged for the 2-car intermediate set (£30) and then want to amend to a full 9-car set that would be a bit cheeky!

Does this seem fair?

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jond on January 17, 2015, 02:03:04 pm
Ben

That seems like a fair way of dealing with it.  Thanks.


Jon
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jond on January 17, 2015, 02:12:52 pm

Another question...and I can't see the answer on either kickstarter or the website...

Is the 11 car Poppy Pendolino available with DCC sound like the standard 11 car set ?


Jon
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 17, 2015, 02:15:25 pm

Another question...and I can't see the answer on either kickstarter or the website...

Is the 11 car Poppy Pendolino available with DCC sound like the standard 11 car set ?


Jon

Hi Jon

Yes, it is (you just have to add £95 to the Poppy set cost) - see my answer on the previous page of this thread!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jond on January 17, 2015, 02:34:27 pm
Yes, it is (you just have to add £95 to the Poppy set cost) - see my answer on the previous page of this thread!

thanks!  must have missed that..
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickjsg on January 17, 2015, 04:48:32 pm
I had to cancel my poppylino pledge, sadly.

Will be paid on the 23rd, will I be able to buy from rapido there without a pledge?

Hi Mickjsg

If the Kickstarter succeeds the money is taken by Kickstarter over the following fortnight, so you may be OK in any event, but we won't be taking any more orders at all.  Of course, another backer may have pledged for a "spare" Poppy Pendolino and may sell it to you.

If the Kickstarter fails then there we will take further orders for all models, however they will be at a higher price.

cheers

Ben A.
I'm happy to reinstate my pledge assuming the payment would be taken after pay day. I wish there was a way  to be certain.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on January 17, 2015, 05:07:28 pm
First of all fantastic news. Many thanks to Ben and Mike and to everyone who has pledged.

Now for my dilemma. I already pledged for 2 11 car units and I was going to pledge for 2 more to try to get over the finish line, but now I don't need to. But I want the kickstarter to succeed. But by rights I should order from Rapido directly. I don't need 4 Pendos. Let's face it I don't NEED any, but 3 might be nice. Argh my head's exploding!@@#@!

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 17, 2015, 05:15:52 pm
Ten is a nice number John ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 17, 2015, 05:17:43 pm
John - Just make it a nice round number!!!

Mickjsg - All Kickstarter tell us is that the cash will be taken "up to two weeks" after the deadline.  I am sorry but we can't be any more exact than that!  Maybe pledge at 2159 tomorrow evening if we're still a long way off the target - that way you'll qualify for the lower prices in plan B, but (assuming we DO actually fail!) no money is taken...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 17, 2015, 05:22:23 pm
I am waiting for all the plan B pledgers who pledge at betwern 21:55 and 22:00 tomorrow and tilt it over :D lol
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tony G on January 17, 2015, 06:26:45 pm
Hi Tony.

I was wondering if there are many common parts between the two (at N gauge level of detail) or would it need a completely different set of tooling? I'm not really familair with the details other than as an icon of modern railways in UK.

Arthur


Hi Arthur,

It would require different tooling and would also depend on the legalities with NRM, weather they have the rights for the model in N-gauge or just 00, or if Rapido are allowed to do it in N-gauge. At least they will have all the plans and scans required for the CAD

http://www.rapidotrains.com/apt1.html (http://www.rapidotrains.com/apt1.html)

Regards Tony
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mirrlees on January 17, 2015, 09:03:30 pm
Well just changed an 11 car pendo for the 11 car Poppylino!

Definitely worth the extra money.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 17, 2015, 10:17:42 pm

Hello all,

The figures tell the story:

24 hours to go; £173,511 pledged - that's 83% of the target.

So we need pledges of £36489 by 2200G tomorrow to close the remaining 17% gap.

Since last night we've gone up by around 12% - can we do even better tomorrow?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on January 18, 2015, 07:23:21 am
I have now upped my total pledge to £505. On the Kickstarter site it looks like £305 for the poppylino and £200 extra. The £200 will be for the five car pendo. Postage £15
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jonny on January 18, 2015, 09:47:10 am
Changed mine for a poppylino. I had originally withdrawn my pledge due to being out of work. But I have now got myself a job starting tomorrow all be it temp work but at least it pays better than my last employment who was as tight as a ducks bottom

Jonny

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ollie3440 on January 18, 2015, 10:43:04 am
Morning all,

Apologies If this has already been covered, but I can't recall seeing the answer. If the target isn't reached and Plan B goes ahead, when will our dosh be taken?

Cheers

Ollie

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 18, 2015, 10:56:13 am

Hello Ollie,

Anyone who has pledged by 2200 tonight and who has registered at our website address www.ngaugependolino.com (http://www.ngaugependolino.com) will be asked if they still want the models they pledged for at the Kickstarter rate.

In the meantime, Mike (our webmaster) has been looking into adding merchanting options to our website to allow us to take payments since we will have to do this if Plan B comes to pass.  It'll probably take a few days, but I don't think it will be appreciably different to the anticipated timings via Kickstarter.

We have also, for tax reasons, created a company that will administer this whole operation.  But let's see if we can make it by 2159 so Plan B isn't needed!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jools on January 18, 2015, 12:32:48 pm
I'd initially pledged for a 9 car set, on the basis that i'd never be able to run a full 11 car one..

but the train length thread started yesterday got me thinking that in reality (if i ever complete my layout) my Pendolino will have to "run" in a shortened form and so what's the difference between leaving 2 cars in the box or 4?

With that in mind, I've upped my pledge to a full 11 car unit - which will look stunning on the display shelf i'm planning for it!

I'd urge anyone else who's "only" pledged for a 9 car unit because that's all they can fit on their layout to consider the same -
doing so may or may not push the kickstarter over the finish line, but for the chance of doing so, (or with plan B the offer to secure you 2 extra car's for only £30) - I'd think its worth it ;)

i just wish i could afford to pledge for a second unit!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mika on January 18, 2015, 01:23:57 pm
I'd initially pledged for a 9 car set, on the basis that i'd never be able to run a full 11 car one..
...
With that in mind, I've upped my pledge to a full 11 car unit - which will look stunning on the display shelf i'm planning for it!

My thoughts exactly...
 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on January 18, 2015, 02:03:00 pm
I'd initially pledged for a 9 car set, on the basis that i'd never be able to run a full 11 car one..

but the train length thread started yesterday got me thinking that in reality (if i ever complete my layout) my Pendolino will have to "run" in a shortened form and so what's the difference between leaving 2 cars in the box or 4?

With that in mind, I've upped my pledge to a full 11 car unit - which will look stunning on the display shelf i'm planning for it!

I'd urge anyone else who's "only" pledged for a 9 car unit because that's all they can fit on their layout to consider the same -
doing so may or may not push the kickstarter over the finish line, but for the chance of doing so, (or with plan B the offer to secure you 2 extra car's for only £30) - I'd think its worth it ;)

i just wish i could afford to pledge for a second unit!

Good thinking, Jools. It's maybe something that hasn't even been considered by some :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: gc4946 on January 18, 2015, 03:11:32 pm
I've looked on both the N Gauge Pendolino.com and the page on the Kickstarter websites, however, apart from the Poppylino, nowhere does it say which other identities will be produced - will one of them be City of Birmingham, as it's an appropriate choice for the last major class of train assembled in the city ?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on January 18, 2015, 03:24:58 pm
I've looked on both the N Gauge Pendolino.com and the page on the Kickstarter websites, however, apart from the Poppylino, nowhere does it say which other identities will be produced - will one of them be City of Birmingham, as it's an appropriate choice for the last major class of train assembled in the city ?

Hi

That's because none of the others have been decided yet. There originally was going to be a vote as part of the development and I assume this will still be the case amongst those who put down deposits should Plan B be invoked.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: gc4946 on January 18, 2015, 03:42:04 pm
If "City of Birmingham" had been offered as one of the choices I would have put my name down for an example, simply because I was born there and this alone would have been my sole reason for wanting one.
I've looked at the etched nameplate manufacturers' websites and none (understandably) produce any in N for a Pendolino.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 18, 2015, 04:31:12 pm
GC

If you read both our Kickstarter page and our website it explains the reasons that the numbers have not yet been announced because, as Paul explained, the purchasers will decide. If you want a particular set then pledge for one and cast your vote when the time comes - democracy in action!

We can't guarantee any of the set numbers except for the Poppy set for the simple reason we don't know what people will pick!

Etched nameplates - chicken and egg situation, why produce something if there is no model to put them on.  I'm sure the gap will be filled once the models are in production.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on January 18, 2015, 04:35:20 pm
Like Mike says chicken and egg situation.

You can always pledge for one and well when it comes to naming cast your vote for "City of Birmingham" as you say it was built in the city do seems like a valid choice.
Although I am sure once a production sample is seen then it wont be long before someone offers replacement names, I know there has been rumblings for the traindeer vinyl's.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on January 18, 2015, 04:38:59 pm
87% funded right now - getting very close
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: gc4946 on January 18, 2015, 04:55:47 pm
After all that I've pledged for one - at least if this project succeeds, I'll own a 9-car unit appropriate for the room at my disposal :claphappy: rather than my current shortened 'orribly 'oversized version  :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on January 18, 2015, 06:34:24 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/33/thumb_20486.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20486)

The pace picks up again.  With just under 4 hours to go, the late surge is matching the initial interest!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ollie3440 on January 18, 2015, 08:03:52 pm

If you pledge and we don't reach our Kickstarter target then in plan B we will offer a facility for paying 50% deposits (or the full amount if people prefer) for a limited period of time (probably 1-2 months max) for Kickstarter backers.

Cheers, Mike

Ah a financial dilemma! Current funds would only allow for 1 set if the Kickstarter is successful and funds are taken straight away. But in the plan B option with the option of 50% deposit would allow for two sets. A pledge will be going in, but it will be a last minute one from me!

Cheers,

Ollie

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 18, 2015, 08:09:29 pm

Good man Ollie!

Looking at Mark's chart it's amazing just how heavy the surge has been - we always expected it... but seeing it visualised is quite an eye opener...

The countdown on the Kickstarter page is now in minutes... 113 remaning and 89% pledged as I write...

Whether or not we reach the target I just want to say an enormous thank you to everyone who has supported us - with pledges, or website banners, or handing out leaflets at shows, on social media or just telling pals at the club. 

It's been - especially in these last moments - a rollercoaster ride.

And let's not forget, whether the Kickstarter target is reached or not, thanks to Rapido we all win!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on January 18, 2015, 08:20:27 pm
Great result Ben and Mike

Just reward for all you work. Sorry that I wont be joining you on this venture as finances have ruled me out. Had Plan B been a part earlier then it would have been possible, but cash is to tight if I have to fund the full amount now - I just can raise enough at the present. A 5 car with DCC would have been a great addition but sadly it's looking like a no.   :'(

 I have to be at work shortly and so will miss the end of this fantastic adventure. Congratulations to all you lucky winners
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on January 18, 2015, 08:35:09 pm
Well, I have put my money where my mouth is and pledged for a 9-car set. Totally inappropriate for a GWR BLT but I am excited by the project and deeply impressed by the hard work Ben and Mike have put into this.

Well done guys!  :thumbsup:

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 18, 2015, 08:35:47 pm

Good man Ollie!

Looking at Mark's chart it's amazing just how heavy the surge has been - we always expected it... but seeing it visualised is quite an eye opener...

The countdown on the Kickstarter page is now in minutes... 113 remaning and 89% pledged as I write...

Whether or not we reach the target I just want to say an enormous thank you to everyone who has supported us - with pledges, or website banners, or handing out leaflets at shows, on social media or just telling pals at the club. 

It's been - especially in these last moments - a rollercoaster ride.

And let's not forget, whether the Kickstarter target is reached or not, thanks to Rapido we all win!

cheers

Ben A.

Even although we've been on the periphery really, and you and Mike and Rapido have been at the pointy end, it's been a fantastic ride for us as well. Thank YOU for having the minerals and wherewithal to take the project on and for making it work. Reading between the lines, I get the feeling that this won't be the last foray into the Kickstarter medium for you and Mike, and so I'm sure I speak for many others when I say I look forward to supporting future endeavours in N gauge.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on January 18, 2015, 08:40:24 pm
I'm interested to see what Rapido can do in N gauge as I've been SERIOUSLY impressed by my mate's HO models from them :thumbsup:

Whoever just pledged it's now hit 90%.


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 18, 2015, 08:51:26 pm
Well I dropped out 3 days ago not sure if I could fund it :'(. But have managed to sell a few things surplus to requirements around the house :claphappy: So I am now back in for a 9 car version :thumbsup:. Not even sure it will fit on my layout :doh:. How long is  a 9 car version.
 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on January 18, 2015, 08:58:10 pm
Rough calculation based on the prototype - 56.5 inches.

11-car comes out at approx. 68.6 inches.


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 18, 2015, 09:12:04 pm
Rough calculation based on the prototype - 56.5 inches.

11-car comes out at approx. 68.6 inches.
Paul

Thanks Paul, Wow that means that it will still be coming out one tunnel as it enters another on my layout :D Oh well I am sure I will have to shorten it :o :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on January 18, 2015, 09:14:27 pm
Or build a longer layout? :D


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 18, 2015, 09:21:05 pm
Or build a longer layout? :D


Paul

Would love too, but don't have the room.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 18, 2015, 09:40:07 pm
£40 off the £190k mark! With only 20-odd minutes to go it's not now looking like we're reach the £210k mark, but the option to purchase at Kickstarter prices with a 50% deposit via Plan B is quite appealing.

In any case, I'm glad it's going ahead.

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 18, 2015, 09:53:59 pm
 :)Just have to have the Poppylino so pushed a tenner closer to target
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 18, 2015, 09:58:59 pm
:)Just have to have the Poppylino so pushed a tenner closer to target

I have just done the same :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on January 18, 2015, 10:01:18 pm
damn that was close

Plan B ahoy ? :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on January 18, 2015, 10:02:11 pm
Very close - 92% funded at £194,187   8)


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ollie3440 on January 18, 2015, 10:02:24 pm
My last minute pledge went in. One 9 and one 11 Car. A shame that the kickstarter was soooo close, but bring on plan B :D

Ollie

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ASFC on January 18, 2015, 10:16:05 pm
It is a shame that kickstarter did not work out-however have already received email and placed order via 'Plan B'.

If you are a backer then check your emails.  :angel:

Well done Gents-a very successful ''failure''.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 18, 2015, 10:25:00 pm
First, thank you to all our backers and supporters for your pledges and help with the Kickstarter campaign. It has been a great experience with everyone pulling together and while we didn't quite make the target the journey does not stop there.

But now... we move to Plan B...!

As we mentioned earlier this week we are delighted that Rapido have agreed to press ahead with the project, however we still need to gather funds to allow the design and tooling to go ahead as planned.
 
We have created a secure website for the purpose of taking deposits and pre-orders for the project - a link to this is being sent to all our backers whose contact details we had.

Backers have until 31 January to place their orders; then the prices will go up then and the pre-order process will be open to everyone.

Thank you once again for all your support,

Ben and Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on January 18, 2015, 10:37:10 pm
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/33/thumb_20488.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20488)

Thanks to Mike and Ben for an exciting couple of months.  I'm so impressed that the total got to 92% and thrilled that the Plan B will go ahead.

Thanks and congrats to Jason and Rapido too.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on January 18, 2015, 10:39:06 pm
Hi Ben & Mike,

Once again thanks for all the work you both have put into this. Plan B it is.

But now a technical question or 2

For those of use outside Europe who placed orders direct with Rapido, do they still stand or do we need to order from your new website?

For those us us who were very naughty and pledged even though we don't live in Europe, do we order from the new website or can we order direct from Rapido?

Also will you be able to publish any final stats? I though right at the beginning of this adventure that as long as we could get 400 people to order two sets we'd be fine, but with well over 400 backers we still didn't quite make it.

Any way I'll be pre-ordering 3 sets, now I have around 14 months to get my layout DCC ready!

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 18, 2015, 10:54:04 pm
I can't answer for Rapido, but I'm sure they will honour the same prices, but I don't know what they intend to do about payment in full vs 50% deposits.

For the time being we are only taking orders from Europe (actually at the moment only the EU, until I work out how to exclude Swiss from VAT).

We will have a think about what stats to publish - some of it is very interesting commercially! We had 491 backers in the end, but clearly not everyone wanted 2 sets (disgraceful I know)! The 5-car sets were very poorly taken up.  I've not tallied all the pledges yet, but at one point 11-car sets were more popular than 9, though that balance changed towards the end.  There was much greater support for DCC sound than I expected - there is certainly a case for reasonably priced, factory fitted DCC sound.

Fortunately the new website does all the record keeping for me, so no more having to match things up!  :bounce:

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 18, 2015, 11:05:00 pm
Thanks to Ben Mike and Jason  What an exiting time I didn't think I would be able to afford it but my wife said even she could see it was a great deal and I could go for it so I have just filled in my order for my  Poppylino  I was a bit confused by the order form but I got there in the end,
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 18, 2015, 11:05:54 pm
Hello John,

Now we have got through the pledge period I think Mike and I need to sit down, go through some of the stats and work out what we can learn from the whole thing.

I think that most people would agree that it is hard to imagine much more we could have done to get this over the line, and to be fair with plan B it means that the original goal - getting a Pendo for my trainset - will be realised.

So... if this campaign failed, despite the enormous amount of good will engendered, what went wrong - and just as importantly, what went right?

Mike and I have some ideas about how things can be further optimised.  Certainly I am more sure than ever that there is a place for crowd-funding but I think the mechanism that works best for the UK market - especially the UK N Gauge market - is not necessarily Kickstarter but something slightly different.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 18, 2015, 11:09:20 pm
Hi Mike thanks for the swift reply, I got over excited and just jumped in without reading your latest updates Sorry.
 regards Derek
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on January 19, 2015, 07:08:43 am
Ben, Mike,

The numbers said the Kickstarter project failed but in reality I think what was achieved was fantastic. The final surge of pledges was incredible, frustrating to get so close yet, looking back a few weeks, we probably never thought we would get this near.

No doubt there will be lessons learned but please remember that the work that both of you did was incredible and professional particularly in terms of the organisation, communication, getting key stakeholders on board and having the plan B ready and started.  :beers: all round!

I have just 'ordered' the poppylino and the 5 car pendo and my long standing dream of having Pendolinos :heart2: racing round my track just got a whole lot closer :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 19, 2015, 07:41:57 am

Morning all,

Phew. Having and a chance to sleep on it the combination of disappointment and euphoria (Disaphoria?  Euppointment?) has had a chance to wear off.

Now the real work begins.  Today I will try to finalise the date for 3D scanning a real Pendo and I gather from Mike that pre-orders are coming in fast.  Those who backed us will have received details of how to pre-order at the preferential rate; the deadline for that is the end of the month and on Feb 1st we will begin taking orders from anyone who missed the Kickstarter at the higher rate (which, incidentally, I think will still offer very good value!)

Cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mika on January 19, 2015, 08:34:02 am
What a great outcome. Thanks to everybody who made it happen.
Just ordered my 11-car Pendolino.
Still very excited.

Cheers
Michael
 :NGF:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on January 19, 2015, 09:00:54 am
A huge vote of thanks and congratulations to Ben and Mike for making this happen.
 :thankyousign:
For the Kickstarter to fail by such a narrow margain is a shame but I am delighted to hear that Plan B is going ahead. I am really interested to see what effect the availability of a Pendolino has on other trains that have been seen on the WCML over the last 10 years. Will sales of Desiros and Voyagers see a boost?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 19, 2015, 09:57:50 am

on Feb 1st we will begin taking orders from anyone who missed the Kickstarter at the higher rate (which, incidentally, I think will still offer very good value!)

Hi Ben,

Doesn't this mean that those of us who intended to fund our purchases by buying an extra set or two and selling the excess on eBay have just had our "market" taken away from us? Or will those who pre-order after the deadline only receive their units in two years time as per the agreement with Rapido?

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 19, 2015, 10:01:57 am
JB, I think people will still buy them from Ebay regardless as you are obviously getting them at a much lower price in the initial round of orders......
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on January 19, 2015, 10:02:43 am
A question please.
I am a DC old fart who pledged for an 11 car Poppylino and now want to confirm my order.
If I were to order a DCC sound fitted set would I still be able to run it on DC, albeit with limited sound as, who knows, at some point I may go down this DCC black arts route? :dunce:

A huge thanks to Ben & Mike who have been so professional and conducted a brilliant campaign. No one should consider the number of pledges made on Kickstarter to be a failure and you should be congratulating yourselves rather than castigating.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 19, 2015, 10:23:29 am
You can run DCC locos on a DC system, it will work fine, as you say the only thing you will notice is that you have limited sounds.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on January 19, 2015, 10:57:05 am
Nobby,

I can not find it but I do remember Jason from Rapido saying there is some way you can use a range of the sounds still on DC within the thread on another forum (not sure if I can name it).
I am sure either Mike or Ben may be able to clear that up though if it would be something you would be wanting to look at!

Acko
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Malc on January 19, 2015, 10:58:41 am
Re Ben's comment about Kickstarter.

The problem with Kickstarter, as I see it, is just timescales. 2 months seems a fairly short time to raise £200,000. I think in another month, you could have done it. Also the timing might have been better if Warley was nearer the end when lots of publicity had gone before. Some people don't like being first to subscribe to these things, and a few more coppers in the kitty might have encouraged a few more people to subscribe.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on January 19, 2015, 11:16:26 am
Wow - almost there - amazing. Even more amazing that Ben and Mike have persuaded a new manufacturer to enter British N gauge and that they are still prepared to continue and still give us the discounted price. Many thanks for all your work over the past 2+ months.

With all the talk about the Electrostar I can feel something's going to happen there and now with new models expected in the next year or so from Rapido and DJ models (and hopefully Hornby/Arnold) to go along with the usual players, I feel that it is a good time to be in British N gauge.

As an after thought, is the fact in getting to 92% and failing meaning more money is going to the project because we don't have to pay the 10% kickstarter fees now?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 19, 2015, 11:23:58 am

Hello all,

Malc - I think you're right. Mike and I have certainly identified the timescale I s one of the issues with Kickstarter. As I said before, I am not certain that it is he best fit for the Briitsh model railway market, even though I think crowd funding is gong to be important.

JB - The Kickstarter failed, so we have to get more orders. Luckily Jason was kind enough to accept our suggestion that those who pledged should be rewarded anyway by being allowed to buy at discounted Kickstarter price - he certainly didn't need to.

Anyone who comes in after Feb 1st will pay more.

Crunch time will be when development is done and the factory wants to know how many models to make. We will order as many as we need and no more, and Jason will top up the order to 1000, which is the minimum run. He could add more, but if we've actually got 1000 orders (or more) he may decide not to, and save his money for something else. After all, he makes a profit on the production anyway and gets the tooling effectively prepaid. I think this is a fairly likely outcome, but it's not as guaranteed as it would've been if Kickstarter had succeeded.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on January 19, 2015, 11:32:55 am
Nobby,

I can not find it but I do remember Jason from Rapido saying there is some way you can use a range of the sounds still on DC within the thread on another forum (not sure if I can name it).

RMweb by any chance?

No problem mentioning other forums, or even linking to them if you can find the relevant information :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on January 19, 2015, 11:41:20 am
Paul,

That's the one it is on Rmweb just didn't want to get on peoples bad side by mentioning other forums.  :-X

I am still trying to find it and when I do I will post it on here in between "working very hard(ish)"

Acko
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 19, 2015, 11:44:44 am
Gaugemaster DCC 70 Black Box

For analogue modellers who wish to hear the loco noises from sound-decoder equipped DCC locos on their layout. With simple connection to an existing controlled output, analogue modellers can access all of the sound, lighting functions on a DCC Sound Locomotive.

http://www.gaugemaster.com/instructions/prodigy/dcc70.pdf (http://www.gaugemaster.com/instructions/prodigy/dcc70.pdf)

http://www.lendonsmodelshop.co.uk/index.asp?search=Railways-20All-20Gauges&showorder=partnumber&check=yes&searchme=Gaugemaster-20Digital-20Control (http://www.lendonsmodelshop.co.uk/index.asp?search=Railways-20All-20Gauges&showorder=partnumber&check=yes&searchme=Gaugemaster-20Digital-20Control)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on January 19, 2015, 02:13:51 pm
 :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
 Only me is all over it!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on January 19, 2015, 03:17:47 pm
Hi,

Over on RMWeb Jason of Rapido confirmed that they will be updating their website for international customers so that they can buy direct from Rapido with a 50% downpayment, he said it might take a couple of days as they are busy getting ready for a show.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cazadoom on January 19, 2015, 05:17:21 pm
Loving that the Baby Pendo is being brought to life :D :D :D ... only thing is my credit card now hates me! :'( ... might have to ad to it on payday :D

Congrats Ben and Mike!

Cant wait for them to arrive!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on January 19, 2015, 09:15:23 pm
You can run DCC locos on a DC system, it will work fine, as you say the only thing you will notice is that you have limited sounds.

Sorry to be thick but doesn't that depend on what type of decoder is fitted, or is it a general rule that 'you can run DCC locos on a DC system'?
The answer I get may affect ALL locos I buy in the future :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on January 19, 2015, 09:53:10 pm
I'm slightly confused about the status of my existing pre-order with rapido as a POM kiwi.

I assume however that it is still valid and that Rapido will get in touch with me regarding it soon :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 19, 2015, 10:07:05 pm
JB - The Kickstarter failed, so we have to get more orders. Luckily Jason was kind enough to accept our suggestion that those who pledged should be rewarded anyway by being allowed to buy at discounted Kickstarter price - he certainly didn't need to.

Anyone who comes in after Feb 1st will pay more.

Crunch time will be when development is done and the factory wants to know how many models to make. We will order as many as we need and no more, and Jason will top up the order to 1000, which is the minimum run. He could add more, but if we've actually got 1000 orders (or more) he may decide not to, and save his money for something else. After all, he makes a profit on the production anyway and gets the tooling effectively prepaid. I think this is a fairly likely outcome, but it's not as guaranteed as it would've been if Kickstarter had succeeded.

Thanks for the clarification.

That's is a bit of a shame. Many of us - including I think at least one model shop - had pledged to buy extra units with the intention of selling them on. As was regularly stated during the campaign in order to get people to sign up, the exclusivity and rarity of the models would have had ensured they kept their resale value. All of a sudden the models are no longer exclusive and it sounds like anyone who wants one will be able to pre-order one at any point up until manufacture, essentially wiping out the second-hand market for these for the next few years. The Kickstarter page shows that at least 103 units were pledged for by at least 43 of us, myself included, via the 2-, 3- and 4+ reward levels. Some of those pledgers may have huge layouts permitting multiple 390s to run, but I'd imagine the vast majority of those 103+ units were due to be sold on. Come spring 2016, the demand for these units on eBay etc will be far, far lower than it would have been if they were exclusive models as had been promised, since they'll have been available for general pre-order for six months / a year. If there's no demand then those who ordered extra units will be stuck with them, or will have to sell them on at a loss.

Pre-ordering a model I have yet to see, from a manufacturer who's not yet entered the UK market, was a big enough gamble in the first place, but the added prospect of making a loss on my investment due to lack of demand when it comes to selling on my extra models has likely tipped the balance for me. I'm going to think it over but my £660 pledge is no longer looking very reasonable and I'll probably just order a 9-car set for myself (and even then I have no guarantee I'll get the set number I'm after!)

It's a pity Rapido apparently didn't receive the 50-60 orders that would have made up the £16k Kickstarter shortfall.

JB

P.S any reason for the £7 price increase on the two-car sets?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on January 19, 2015, 10:18:43 pm
JB,

Will have to ask Mike and Ben for clarification on it but I still believe that the numbers used in the first run will be limited to the first run only.
So any later batches will not carry the numbers over, but as I say you will have to check with Mike and Ben on that one!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on January 19, 2015, 10:29:01 pm
I think Ben and Mike said in an earlier post that 1000 units will be made as that is the minimum run from the manufacturer.

So unless there is a huge surge in pre-orders we're still looking ata limited run of just 1000 units split between 9 and 11 car sets with different running numbers, so probably not more than 250 of any given variety.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 19, 2015, 10:57:52 pm
I think Ben and Mike said in an earlier post that 1000 units will be made as that is the minimum run from the manufacturer.

So unless there is a huge surge in pre-orders we're still looking ata limited run of just 1000 units split between 9 and 11 car sets with different running numbers, so probably not more than 250 of any given variety.

John P

I think this is probably correct. If the project struggled to get a eight hundred orders at the kickstarter price, realistically how many are going to pre-order at the higher price? I would think the group that will catch the most is the people who couldn't afford to pledge over the christmas period due to cash flow. and we don't know how many Rapido got from overseas buyers.

So in the end, are there likely to be much more than a thousand produced? probably not.  An so it's not really much different from the scenario if the Kickstarter had succeeded.

I could be proved wrong, but I think it will still be hard to see much more than a thousand units produced.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 19, 2015, 11:08:52 pm
Hello JB,

Sadly we have to face facts: we didn't make the Kickstarter.  As you identified it was a golden chance to both create a new model that lots of people wanted and create a brilliant speculative opportunity but it didn't happen.

So what is to be done?

We need to find more pledges, so we have to allow more orders. 

But these people will all be buying at a higher price than that on offer to you, so that puts you at an immediate advantage.

That seems fair to me, and seems the "least worst" way of rewarding those who backed us in the ultimately unsuccessful kickstarter.

Once the production order is in, there will be no more.  At least, not for a couple of years.  And it will be another good 4-5 months I suspect between that and the models arriving, being sent for review etc.  This is when you will make your cash - when all those who chose not to pre-order "because they were worried about buying unseen" will wish they had.

Is it a risk?  Yes, I suppose so, but that is the nature of a speculative investment. 

Either way, one thing I am sure of is that the quality of these models will not disappoint - having examined Rapido's GMD-1 very closely!

I agree it IS a shame, but we are where we are.  I have endeavoured to optimise the outcome for as many people as possible by convincing Rapido to allow backers to still get the pre-deadline price once they'd decided to go ahead anyway.

Out of interest, what would be your preferred solution?  If you've got some suggestions I am certainly willing to consider them.... part of this is that it is meant to work as a community...

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on January 19, 2015, 11:10:03 pm
You can run DCC locos on a DC system, it will work fine, as you say the only thing you will notice is that you have limited sounds.

You can run most DCC decoders on A DC system  - but RTFM first as not all ( ie early Bachmann) will do so.

the DC sound capabilities depend on the DCC sound chip. some functions may be available.

see DCC threads on this forum for info.

NR
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 20, 2015, 01:16:49 am
That's is a bit of a shame. Many of us - including I think at least one model shop - had pledged to buy extra units with the intention of selling them on. As was regularly stated during the campaign in order to get people to sign up, the exclusivity and rarity of the models would have had ensured they kept their resale value. All of a sudden the models are no longer exclusive and it sounds like anyone who wants one will be able to pre-order one at any point up until manufacture, essentially wiping out the second-hand market for these for the next few years. The Kickstarter page shows that at least 103 units were pledged for by at least 43 of us, myself included, via the 2-, 3- and 4+ reward levels. Some of those pledgers may have huge layouts permitting multiple 390s to run, but I'd imagine the vast majority of those 103+ units were due to be sold on. Come spring 2016, the demand for these units on eBay etc will be far, far lower than it would have been if they were exclusive models as had been promised, since they'll have been available for general pre-order for six months / a year. If there's no demand then those who ordered extra units will be stuck with them, or will have to sell them on at a loss.

P.S any reason for the £7 price increase on the two-car sets?

JB

In reverse order:

2-car sets - there is no price increase, just P&P inclusive rather than exclusive.

I think your reasoning on why people pledged for multiples works for some but not for a lot of pledgers.  If you want the models to make a model then you probably do want more than one set - you often see 2 crossing given the frequency of service south of Manchester and Birmingham!

Finally on rarity/scarcity - the reality from day 1 was that 1000 sets were going to be produced.  At the moment that has not changed ultimately if we sell the 1000 within the next few weeks/months then Rapido will have to make a decision on whether to produce more. Afterall Rapido are taking more of a commercial risk now despite being based on good information and indications of demand.  If Kickstarter backers want to speculate then they are at the immediate advantage of being able to buy at a cheaper price than a later purchaser. I'm sure there will be a few backers who wanted to see the Kickstarter succeed who choose not to purchase any sets now, equally we've had several people say that the deposit scheme has enabled them to up their order as they have longer to pay for things.

As Ben said, we've tried to come up with something fair to everyone which still allows the Pendolino to be produced.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 22, 2015, 10:33:34 am

Hello all,

It's gone fairly quiet on this thread for obvious reasons. Hopefully all our backers have now had their email and can follow the link to the page where, if they wish, they can preorder with a 50% deposit at the Kickstarter prices.

From Feb 1st we will open up for orders from anyone, but the prices will be higher.

Next week or the week after we are planning to laser scan the real thing as we move to the production process.

Cheers

Ben A.
 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: free debt man on January 22, 2015, 10:52:05 am
Two members (at least) of the N Gauge Society Committee have sent in their 50% deposits, & I hope this encourages many others to do the same.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on January 22, 2015, 10:54:05 am
Thanks for the reminder Ben. Has spurred me into action and have just placed my deposit for an 11-car set.

Cheers,

Brooksy
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on January 22, 2015, 10:57:13 am
Already ordered mine :bounce:


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on January 22, 2015, 11:05:36 am
Do you (we) get feedback on the nos. of preorders??

NR
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 22, 2015, 11:24:03 am
My order number was #196 on the day of the launch...

So if brooksy lets us know what his was it may give an idea??!!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on January 22, 2015, 11:39:05 am
My youngest is named Penelope or Penny for short and I have just discovered what 390022 is named.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4134/4917183413_919f1e5dcc.jpg)

Now I am in a dilemma. Previously I was not too fussed about name/number. Now I suddenly, desparately want this particular example.

What to do?  ???
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 22, 2015, 12:01:07 pm
My youngest is named Penelope or Penny for short and I have just discovered what 390022 is named.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4134/4917183413_919f1e5dcc.jpg)

Now I am in a dilemma. Previously I was not too fussed about name/number. Now I suddenly, desparately want this particular example.

What to do?  ???

I guess the question is do you want another 250 units called Penny, or would you rather have a unique one by  renumbering and naming. Might be a lovely gesture for the young lass to have a special train on Dad's layout..... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on January 22, 2015, 12:06:32 pm
My order number was #196 on the day of the launch...

So if brooksy lets us know what his was it may give an idea??!!!

I was 348. According to kickstarter there were 491 backers so about 2/3rds of the way there.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 22, 2015, 12:08:52 pm
My order number was #196 on the day of the launch...

So if brooksy lets us know what his was it may give an idea??!!!

I was 348. According to kickstarter there were 491 backers so about 2/3rds of the way there.

Remember also that a few backers may now be ordering double their original pledge, with only 50% now required up front? Maybe we will see an increase in units ordered........
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on January 22, 2015, 12:11:37 pm
I guess the question is do you want another 250 units called Penny, or would you rather have a unique one by  renumbering and naming. Might be a lovely gesture for the young lass to have a special train on Dad's layout..... :thumbsup:
That is true but I have not been able to find anywhere selling those nameplates (in N or 00 actually). I wonder if I could get them custom made?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Hunslet 707 on January 22, 2015, 12:14:30 pm
I guess the question is do you want another 250 units called Penny, or would you rather have a unique one by  renumbering and naming. Might be a lovely gesture for the young lass to have a special train on Dad's layout..... :thumbsup:
That is true but I have not been able to find anywhere selling those nameplates (in N or 00 actually). I wonder if I could get them custom made?

OT:

I always wanted to get a set made for my long sold Voyager model - 'Virgin On the Ridiculous'
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on January 22, 2015, 12:14:53 pm
Now I am in a dilemma. Previously I was not too fussed about name/number. Now I suddenly, desparately want this particular example.

What to do?  ???

Could get my vote. I was originally thinking of a City of ... example but Penny the Pendolino sounds good. According to wikipedia its name was changed from Virgin Hope but doesn't give date - anyone know? I was hoping for a name that covered all the time period that it run but as a strictly rule 1 modeller it doesn't bother me too much but may affect some poeple's choices.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 22, 2015, 12:16:57 pm
I guess the question is do you want another 250 units called Penny, or would you rather have a unique one by  renumbering and naming. Might be a lovely gesture for the young lass to have a special train on Dad's layout..... :thumbsup:
That is true but I have not been able to find anywhere selling those nameplates (in N or 00 actually). I wonder if I could get them custom made?

With a 1000 units on the market, I guess someone might step in and produce some. I'm sure someone somewhere would be able to do a custom make them for you...might be worth asking around, I'd guess there is plenty time before the unit identities are frozen....

I'd vote for it if you wanted it in the Rapido batch (even though mine will be a Poppylino)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Brooksy on January 22, 2015, 12:20:37 pm
Remember also that a few backers may now be ordering double their original pledge, with only 50% now required up front? Maybe we will see an increase in units ordered........

Also, some people may have only been pledging to get over the kickstarter line so may now order less. The important thing is that it is coming no matter how many people pre-order - the rest will just have to pay retail price!  :P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 22, 2015, 12:29:02 pm
I guess the question is do you want another 250 units called Penny, or would you rather have a unique one by  renumbering and naming. Might be a lovely gesture for the young lass to have a special train on Dad's layout..... :thumbsup:
That is true but I have not been able to find anywhere selling those nameplates (in N or 00 actually). I wonder if I could get them custom made?

The difference is that the Hornby one seems to be more of a toy which does not attract too many serious modellers wanting to change the identity, whereas the N one will be a model. When it is here, I am sure nameplates will become available, and even a vinyl will look OK in our scale.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 22, 2015, 12:31:54 pm
I can recomend a company called NARROW PLANET or our own member
 OZYMANDIAS  I've had a nameplate custom made by both they can be seen  in my media folders if anyone is interested.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 22, 2015, 12:47:41 pm
Narrow Planet make my name etches too...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: talisman56 on January 22, 2015, 01:39:30 pm
Now I am in a dilemma. Previously I was not too fussed about name/number. Now I suddenly, desparately want this particular example.

What to do?  ???

Could get my vote. I was originally thinking of a City of ... example but Penny the Pendolino sounds good. According to wikipedia its name was changed from Virgin Hope but doesn't give date - anyone know? I was hoping for a name that covered all the time period that it run but as a strictly rule 1 modeller it doesn't bother me too much but may affect some poeple's choices.

Virgin Hope... quite a few comments could be made concerning that name, and probably were, hence the rename? One I immediately thought of was "Virgin Hope your train will arrive at its destination", a bit like the Pilot Scheme diesel 10800, which on BR(S) metals (at least) was known as the 'Wonder Engine' - as in "I wonder if it will go today?".
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 22, 2015, 01:41:00 pm

Hello all,

I understand from Mike that the deposits are coming in thick and fast, and plenty of people have increased their orders too, though I don't have exact numbers. 

Once we know what the deadline is for livery artwork for Rapido we will get the process of unit selection underway.  We haven't decided exactly how to do this - but fairest would seem to be to get everyone to nominate one choice per model they've ordered then count up. The most popular would get made and anyone who chose differently could just choose again. 

Of course, we know we will be doing the Poppy Pendolino as one of our 11-car sets.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Dany on January 22, 2015, 03:18:41 pm
Hi

I and some fellow members of the Swiss N Gauge Association (spur-N-schweiz) still hope that Mike will find a solution for orders from Switzerland in the Shop on the new Website, so that we can all live up to our pledges an order our Pendos as well!

regards
Dany
"CFO" of sNs
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jond on January 22, 2015, 05:28:21 pm
Ben

I originally pledged for 11 car sets - but really want to run 9 car day to day but have the extra 2 cars available...so should I place my order now for  a number of 9 car sets + 2 car add on packs instead  - it would be much better for me if they came in different packaging to make storage easier!  The price is the same I believe ?

Thanks

Jon
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 22, 2015, 06:58:00 pm


Hi all,

Jond - just order whatever combination you like. However at this stage I can't necessarily guarantee that if you buy the intermediate cars separateky they'll be correctly numbered to match your 9-car sets.

Dany - I'm pretty sure Mike is trying to sort this out. If it gets closer to the deadline and you've still not heard anything (say a week today) then pls PM him.

We will find a way to make sure you get what you pledged for.

Cheers

Ben A. 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 23, 2015, 12:17:36 am
Just back from 4 days working in Seville - might sound glamourous but 4 days in a meeting room talking about environmental impact of emissions soon feels less than glamourous!

Deposits (and payments for full amounts) are continuing to come in.  I'm not sure whether we will release details of numbers of sets ordered now as it isn't important to the project going ahead and it may be commercially useful information - something we need to have a think about.

I've not forgotten about our Swiss friends and I will sort something out so you don't miss out on the Kickstarter prices. I just need to work out how to deal with VAT (or lack thereof) on our system.  It might have to be a manual intervention, but I will get it cracked.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 23, 2015, 05:19:17 pm
Hi chaps,

Thanks for the replies.

The difference with the previous situation is that we were told there would be one run of 1000 units and that Rapido would not sell the unsold units until two years down the line, essentially guaranteeing that there'd be an immediate market for any extra units we might be inclined to hand over our money for. The fact that this has now changed and that sets are going to be available to everyone for immediate pre-order means the market of "those who missed the boat" will basically no longer exist. I understand Rapido has to look after its bank account but I fear the decision to put these on sale immediately will actually lead to fewer pre-orders in the critical short term, as it takes away a big chunk of the resale potential. But then again maybe I'm the only one who intended to sell any units on, who knows? All I know is that it was far less of a gamble to purchase multiple sets when we could be sure we'd be able to sell them on. My suggestion would be to stick with what was originally announced, although I realise Rapido now have the upper hand in getting this to market and can do whatever they like.

As to the two-car sets:

Ok, if the extra £7 covers P&P then the checkout P&P for this set needs to be set to £0.00. If I place one of these in my shopping basket, the price should cover P&P yet I see an additional £8.33 in P&P (£10 inc VAT) added on when selecting UK delivery at the checkout stage, so that's £17 P&P on a £30 item. If I order two sets of these the P&P charge simply doubles, so that I'm slapped with a total of £33.99 in P&P (inc. VAT), that's a total of £93.99 to have two of these sets (£60) shipped to an address in the UK, or £104 to the rest of the EU. Seems a liiiiiiittle steep  :hmmm:

Rather than supply the two-car sets with generic numbers, would it not be preferable to supply them un-numbered and then either include a sheet of self-adhesive vehicle numbers, or let a third-party come up with the goods? After all the whole point of these is presumably to extend (and therefore match) the 9-car sets. Seems a bit counter-constructive to supply them out of the box with numbers which in all likelyhood won't match the set they're intended to extend. In this day and age we expect better than generic numbers  :D *looks over at his rake of old Farish FINA TEA tankers, all numbered #504 or #505...*

Cheers,

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 23, 2015, 06:11:54 pm
Hi chaps,

Thanks for the replies.

The difference with the previous situation is that we were told there would be one run of 1000 units and that Rapido would not sell the unsold units until two years down the line, essentially guaranteeing that there'd be an immediate market for any extra units we might be inclined to hand over our money for. The fact that this has now changed and that sets are going to be available to everyone for immediate pre-order means the market of "those who missed the boat" will basically no longer exist. I understand Rapido has to look after its bank account but I fear the decision to put these on sale immediately will actually lead to fewer pre-orders in the critical short term, as it takes away a big chunk of the resale potential. But then again maybe I'm the only one who intended to sell any units on, who knows? All I know is that it was far less of a gamble to purchase multiple sets when we could be sure we'd be able to sell them on. My suggestion would be to stick with what was originally announced, although I realise Rapido now have the upper hand in getting this to market and can do whatever they like.

As to the two-car sets:

Ok, if the extra £7 covers P&P then the checkout P&P for this set needs to be set to £0.00. If I place one of these in my shopping basket, the price should cover P&P yet I see an additional £8.33 in P&P (£10 inc VAT) added on when selecting UK delivery at the checkout stage, so that's £17 P&P on a £30 item. If I order two sets of these the P&P charge simply doubles, so that I'm slapped with a total of £33.99 in P&P (inc. VAT), that's a total of £93.99 to have two of these sets (£60) shipped to an address in the UK, or £104 to the rest of the EU. Seems a liiiiiiittle steep  :hmmm:

Rather than supply the two-car sets with generic numbers, would it not be preferable to supply them un-numbered and then either include a sheet of self-adhesive vehicle numbers, or let a third-party come up with the goods? After all the whole point of these is presumably to extend (and therefore match) the 9-car sets. Seems a bit counter-constructive to supply them out of the box with numbers which in all likelyhood won't match the set they're intended to extend. In this day and age we expect better than generic numbers  :D *looks over at his rake of old Farish FINA TEA tankers, all numbered #504 or #505...*

Cheers,

JB

My understanding was that the two car sets were intended to allow modellers to run a train modelling the delivery of expansion coaches for the 9 car sets, another way for people to support the project who didn't have the room or the money to pledge for a 9 or 11 car sets. Ben and Mike might be able to confirm? I think speculators speculated that they might be able to sell them to 9 car owners to expand their set, but I don't think that was the original intention of the kickstarters.

Regarding the resale market for speculators, I think it unlikely that there will be much more than 1000 sets ordered in total, so I'm not sure anything has happened to that market. I'd think there are still a substantial number who would like a Pendo that are unwilling to either pay up front for a pre-order, or commit to a model that they haven't seen yet.

The flip side of your fears about speculators pulling out (and if some do, that may reduce the total number produced so increasing the exclusivity further), is that others may order more sets because they only have to pay 50% per set now, so effectively they are ordering two for one with regard to the original up front price.

Just my thoughts and I could be wrong on all of that.....

Scotty
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 23, 2015, 06:43:37 pm
Hi a question for Ben and Mike to answer if they can. I have placed an order for a 11 car set and have paid 50% up front, is there anyway on the system where as I can say pay the balance off in manageable small amounts over the next 12 months instead of paying the balance at the end.

This would be very useful if this would be possible. Look forward to an answer please.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 23, 2015, 07:25:21 pm

My understanding was that the two car sets were intended to allow modellers to run a train modelling the delivery of expansion coaches for the 9 car sets, another way for people to support the project who didn't have the room or the money to pledge for a 9 or 11 car sets.

When I suggested that idea back in November it was intended as a humorous response to someone's suggestion to make the Pendo at 1:160 Euro scale. The 1:148 model coaches that are actually being produced would look huge against the rest of the 1:160 train they'd be a part of, and in any case the desire to model these convoys would be very limited since 1) they're virtually unheard of in Italy and France (so not that interesting to model), and 2) they are only relevant to someone who's modelling the period from April to December 2012. Still, if the purpose of the two-car sets is not to extend the 9-car sets I stand to be corrected  :worried:

Of course a model in 1:160 scale might appeal to people wanting to recreate Alstom delivery trains in north-western Italy or up the eastern half of France, but I think we're talking limited numbers here.

Would make an interesting train though.



Regarding the resale market for speculators, I think it unlikely that there will be much more than 1000 sets ordered in total, so I'm not sure anything has happened to that market. I'd think there are still a substantial number who would like a Pendo that are unwilling to either pay up front for a pre-order, or commit to a model that they haven't seen yet.

The flip side of your fears about speculators pulling out (and if some do, that may reduce the total number produced so increasing the exclusivity further), is that others may order more sets because they only have to pay 50% per set now, so effectively they are ordering two for one with regard to the original up front price.

Just my thoughts and I could be wrong on all of that.....

Scotty

The issue is that those who aren't willing to pay up front or pre-order will just be able to buy them from Rapido once they're released and available to the general public to view and play with before committing, whereas before they would have had to buy them from eBay or from model shops who had been on the ball.

As far as I can tell, the Kickstarter campaign "only" collected pledges for about 520 or so units, probably a few more where people have put in "custom" pledges which us lot can't see from the KS pledge page. Let's say we reached 550 units with KS. Rapido apparently didn't receive enough pre-orders during the campaign to make up the missing £15k (that would be about 50 units, taking an average of £300 per unit). So if my maths are correct, Kickstarter + Rapido pledges (probably) didn't reach 600 units. Even if we assume the pre-orders reach the same number of units as were pledged via KS and Rapido by January 31st, that still leaves Rapido with 400+ units to be sold either via further pre-orders, or once the units have been built - which leaves a very limited market for those of us who are pre-ordering now.

Could the team please confirm that the units ordered before January 31st will carry exclusive running numbers, different to the running numbers on units ordered after that date? Or will the running numbers we choose be made available to all pre-orders regardless of whether the purchaser pledged during the campaign?

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 23, 2015, 07:53:27 pm

My understanding was that the two car sets were intended to allow modellers to run a train modelling the delivery of expansion coaches for the 9 car sets, another way for people to support the project who didn't have the room or the money to pledge for a 9 or 11 car sets.

When I suggested that idea back in November it was intended as a humorous response to someone's suggestion to make the Pendo at 1:160 Euro scale. The 1:148 model coaches that are actually being produced would look huge against the rest of the 1:160 train they'd be a part of, and in any case the desire to model these convoys would be very limited since 1) they're virtually unheard of in Italy and France (so not that interesting to model), and 2) they are only relevant to someone who's modelling the period from April to December 2012. Still, if the purpose of the two-car sets is not to extend the 9-car sets I stand to be corrected  :worried:

Of course a model in 1:160 scale might appeal to people wanting to recreate Alstom delivery trains in north-western Italy or up the eastern half of France, but I think we're talking limited numbers here.

Would make an interesting train though.



Regarding the resale market for speculators, I think it unlikely that there will be much more than 1000 sets ordered in total, so I'm not sure anything has happened to that market. I'd think there are still a substantial number who would like a Pendo that are unwilling to either pay up front for a pre-order, or commit to a model that they haven't seen yet.

The flip side of your fears about speculators pulling out (and if some do, that may reduce the total number produced so increasing the exclusivity further), is that others may order more sets because they only have to pay 50% per set now, so effectively they are ordering two for one with regard to the original up front price.

Just my thoughts and I could be wrong on all of that.....

Scotty

The issue is that those who aren't willing to pay up front or pre-order will just be able to buy them from Rapido once they're released and available to the general public to view and play with before committing, whereas before they would have had to buy them from eBay or from model shops who had been on the ball.

As far as I can tell, the Kickstarter campaign "only" collected pledges for about 520 or so units, probably a few more where people have put in "custom" pledges which us lot can't see from the KS pledge page. Let's say we reached 550 units with KS. Rapido apparently didn't receive enough pre-orders during the campaign to make up the missing £15k (that would be about 50 units, taking an average of £300 per unit). So if my maths are correct, Kickstarter + Rapido pledges (probably) didn't reach 600 units. Even if we assume the pre-orders reach the same number of units as were pledged via KS and Rapido by January 31st, that still leaves Rapido with 400+ units to be sold either via further pre-orders, or once the units have been built - which leaves a very limited market for those of us who are pre-ordering now.

Could the team please confirm that the units ordered before January 31st will carry exclusive running numbers, different to the running numbers on units ordered after that date? Or will the running numbers we choose be made available to all pre-orders regardless of whether the purchaser pledged during the campaign?

JB

I think I see your point, but lets say the kickstarter made the required 1000 units. Thats all rapido would have made and sold, until two or three years down the line.

Now, supposing only 600 units are ordered by kickstarter members, and the pre-orderers (is that a word?), and rapido make that up to 1000, we're still in the same boat with the same number of units produced. But say of that 400 that Rapido made up, 100 are overseas pre-orders, that leaves 300 surplus. But these 300 surplus will be sold on the open market, by Rapido for the full retail price, quite a bit higher than kickstarter prices, and a wee bit higher than pre-order prices. So when they cautious purchasers see how wonderful these models are, there's still a margin for the speculators to make a buck? No?

I apologise if I've misinterpreted your point JB.........

Scotty
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 23, 2015, 07:56:26 pm
Hi JB,

I am really sorry but the Kickstarter failed.  I don't like it but that's the situation we are in.  So all the Kickstarter Ts & Cs are gone.  But then, none of the backers have lost any cash - since none was ever paid - and we all knew that it was an all-or-nothing deal at the outset.

So now we are at plan B.

After some negotiating and work we have enabled plan B to offer original pledgers the Kickstarter price - I am not sure whether the majority on this forum realise quite how much of a generous gesture that was from Rapido - but at the same time as you rightly identify we do not have 1000 sales already generated.

So we need to bulk up the sales.   We are doing this by continuing to take new orders, after Feb 1st, but at a higher price.

Once we get to the Production Order stage we will order the models we have sold.  If that is below the equivalent of 1,000 9-car models then Rapido will bulk up the order to 1000.  Or maybe more.  It's up to them.   If it's 1100 units then I think Rapido will have a decision:  Do they want to spend their money ordering more units, or do they think that *at this point* the market will be saturated, and best left alone for a couple of years, and save that money for other stuff?

Personally I think it's the latter, as Rapido have cash flow considerations like the rest of us, but either way any additional units they sell will still be sold at significantly more than you are paying!  You could probably undercut them by £5 and still make £50-60 per model.

As for the two car sets - they were offered primarily to create a relatively low-price pledge point for those who wanted to support us.  If we get enough pre orders these will still be manufactured, but it's entirely at the whim of the market as to whether they become highly sought after or not.   We just don't know!

I don't think I can tell you what you want to hear, but we are trying to offer the best outcome for everyone - including Rapido - based on the inconvenient truth that the Kickstarter failed!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 23, 2015, 08:15:56 pm
Hi JB,

I am really sorry but the Kickstarter failed.  I don't like it but that's the situation we are in.  So all the Kickstarter Ts & Cs are gone.  But then, none of the backers have lost any cash - since none was ever paid - and we all knew that it was an all-or-nothing deal at the outset.

So now we are at plan B.

After some negotiating and work we have enabled plan B to offer original pledgers the Kickstarter price - I am not sure whether the majority on this forum realise quite how much of a generous gesture that was from Rapido - but at the same time as you rightly identify we do not have 1000 sales already generated.

So we need to bulk up the sales.   We are doing this by continuing to take new orders, after Feb 1st, but at a higher price.

Once we get to the Production Order stage we will order the models we have sold.  If that is below the equivalent of 1,000 9-car models then Rapido will bulk up the order to 1000.  Or maybe more.  It's up to them.   If it's 1100 units then I think Rapido will have a decision:  Do they want to spend their money ordering more units, or do they think that *at this point* the market will be saturated, and best left alone for a couple of years, and save that money for other stuff?

Personally I think it's the latter, as Rapido have cash flow considerations like the rest of us, but either way any additional units they sell will still be sold at significantly more than you are paying!  You could probably undercut them by £5 and still make £50-60 per model.

As for the two car sets - they were offered primarily to create a relatively low-price pledge point for those who wanted to support us.  If we get enough pre orders these will still be manufactured, but it's entirely at the whim of the market as to whether they become highly sought after or not.   We just don't know!

I don't think I can tell you what you want to hear, but we are trying to offer the best outcome for everyone - including Rapido - based on the inconvenient truth that the Kickstarter failed!

cheers

Ben A.

I think you said it better! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on January 23, 2015, 10:13:04 pm
Hi a question for Ben and Mike to answer if they can. I have placed an order for a 11 car set and have paid 50% up front, is there anyway on the system where as I can say pay the balance off in manageable small amounts over the next 12 months instead of paying the balance at the end.

This would be very useful if this would be possible. Look forward to an answer please.

A savings account??

Nr
Title: "
Post by: Ben A on January 23, 2015, 10:27:17 pm

Hi UpinSmoke,

Mike is looking at the functionality of the website to optimise it, but at the same time we are conscious of trying to avoid "mission creep" with regard to what we can offer, and what we have time to do.

It may be we can find a mechanism to take smaller installments but TBH it's not a priority.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: "
Post by: UPINSMOKE on January 23, 2015, 10:32:41 pm

Hi UpinSmoke,

Mike is looking at the functionality of the website to optimise it, but at the same time we are conscious of trying to avoid "mission creep" with regard to what we can offer, and what we have time to do.

It may be we can find a mechanism to take smaller installments but TBH it's not a priority.

cheers

Ben A.

Hi Ben,
            Thanks for the quick reply and the clear explanation I do hope some way of perhaps paying the balance off will be found, but if not I am sure I can live with it  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mark100 on January 24, 2015, 12:01:11 am
We can donate a box of Railway books and other Railway related bits and bobs that you can sell on your stand at shows e.t.c to help towards getting to your total. its not a lot but every penny helps these days.
just p.m me an address and i can post it second class recorded to you.

Cheers Mark
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 24, 2015, 12:53:55 am
As to the two-car sets:

Ok, if the extra £7 covers P&P then the checkout P&P for this set needs to be set to £0.00.

Or you could just choose the free delivery option...

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 24, 2015, 01:05:03 am
Still, if the purpose of the two-car sets is not to extend the 9-car sets I stand to be corrected  :worried:

I'm afraid you stand corrected - once we made the decision to offer the 11-car sets then the 2-car sets became eactly that ie to model the delivery trains (or for people prepared to play a long game to re-inforce the 9-car sets).
As far as I can tell, the Kickstarter campaign "only" collected pledges for about 520 or so units, probably a few more where people have put in "custom" pledges which us lot can't see from the KS pledge page. Let's say we reached 550 units with KS. Rapido apparently didn't receive enough pre-orders during the campaign to make up the missing £15k (that would be about 50 units, taking an average of £300 per unit). So if my maths are correct, Kickstarter + Rapido pledges (probably) didn't reach 600 units. Even if we assume the pre-orders reach the same number of units as were pledged via KS and Rapido by January 31st, that still leaves Rapido with 400+ units to be sold either via further pre-orders, or once the units have been built - which leaves a very limited market for those of us who are pre-ordering now.

Could the team please confirm that the units ordered before January 31st will carry exclusive running numbers, different to the running numbers on units ordered after that date? Or will the running numbers we choose be made available to all pre-orders regardless of whether the purchaser pledged during the campaign?
I think you are overthinking this - you don't know the level of sets ordered (it was nothing like what you are suggesting!), nor am I sure what the relevance of the Rapido orders is - the reality is that regardless of Rapido if the KS had made its target then it would have gone ahead.  Furthermore, despite the failure of the KS to reach its target, the project is going ahead!!!

The reality (as mentioned before) is that whatever funding mechanism was used that 1000 units were going to be produced (and hopefully sold) - without that then the project doesn't happen.

The numbers will be chosen the same way as under KS ie we will ask purchasers to choose them.  We won't restrict that to KS pledgers as the KS campaign didnt reach the target, so it would be unfair to only reward those purchasers. The reward for KS pledgers is clearly that they can order at a significantly cheaper price than non-KS backers.

Hi a question for Ben and Mike to answer if they can. I have placed an order for a 11 car set and have paid 50% up front, is there anyway on the system where as I can say pay the balance off in manageable small amounts over the next 12 months instead of paying the balance at the end.

I don't think that this is feasible if I am honest - we are trying to minimise the admin required not increase it.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: gc4946 on January 24, 2015, 08:57:20 am
I'm trying not to be too smug about this ...

I was one of those who pledged via Kickstarter's website for a 9-car unit. I've ordered and paid in full for the same version not long after the Kickstarter failed.

The main factor for me still going ahead with ordering the model was that Rapido agreed to honour the original Kickstarter price.
Nine cars, including two powered vehicles, for £255.

To put things into perspective, Arnold/Hornby's Brighton Belle cost £200 for a 5-car set. I dread to think how much a Pendolino would have cost if Arnold had ever announced one!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 24, 2015, 08:48:04 pm
Hi, Your not alone  I and many others also have paid in full. Roll on 2016 for my 11 car Poppy Pendelino. Once again I cannot thank Mike, Ben And Rapido enough for making this happen.
  regards Derek.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 24, 2015, 10:12:19 pm
Even my wife said it was too good an offer to loose even though we have had lots of expense lately .She said go ahead so my son filled in the order today for my Poppylino which takes care of this coming Christmas and next years birthday presents ,I had The BB for Christmas just gone and this years birthday in March,
I'm a very lucky man after 33 years she does still love me,or as my daughter said at least it shuts me up for a while .
I too thank Ben and Mike for all thier effort and Jason for taking over and still honouring our initial pledge price.
Roll on March next year.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on January 25, 2015, 01:26:29 am
I haven't heard anything from rapido regarding my effective pre-order, so I haven't been asked to pay anything yet?

How do I make sure because of plan B  don't miss out?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 25, 2015, 06:53:42 am
Thanks Mickster04, just the question I was thinking of. Hopefully I have the "pre-order" reference number. I am unsure if Rapido have deleted my card details like Kickstarter would have when the target was not reached. The risk is being charged twice.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on January 25, 2015, 09:57:07 am
You should have had a link to a website, that came from the Kickstarter update, where you choose your item, and pay a 50% deposit, or the full amount.

Just having pledged is not enough to get you a model this time around, you won't be charged twice, all the detail from Kickstarter has gone. They don't pass on credit card numbers or anything.

I've just done it and I'm order #435, which assuming they're sequential is brilliant to see.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 25, 2015, 10:23:56 am



If you're a Kickstarter pledger then you'll have received an email to a page where you can pledge at the Kickstarter prices. These will go up next weekend.

If you can't find the email then log in to Kickstarter and look at our old page. There you'll see update #5 which is only accessible to pledgers and contains the same information.

If you're oversees and ordered via Rapido's website then as long as you ordered before the deadline last weekend they'll honour the price, but I recommend an email to Rapido just to confirm.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jond on January 25, 2015, 11:54:57 am
Order placed for 3 x 11 car sets.  (order #437)



On a general note, probably more use to those yet to place their order... is the number of sets limited to the 1000 ?  What if more than 1000 sets are ordered via your new website ?  Will they all be produced ?

Thanks

Jon
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Zakalwe on January 25, 2015, 12:15:32 pm
plan B deposit order placed, looking forwards to seeing the progress.......
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 25, 2015, 12:31:17 pm
... is the number of sets limited to the 1000 ?  What if more than 1000 sets are ordered via your new website ?  Will they all be produced ?

Thanks

Jon

Hi Jon

Our plan is to continue taking orders until Rapido's factory ask us what we want them to produce.  At that time (probably Aug/Sept) we will order all the models that have been paid for and no more.

If it's fewer than 1000 then my understanding is that Rapido will "top it up"; if it's more than 1000 then I don't think Rapido will add any because they'll feel the primary market has been satisfied; though that is a commercial decision for them at the time.

My assessment is that once the models are here, and reviwed in the mags etc, there will probably be a couple of hundred people who missed out who would want one.  This market is too small for it to be worth Rapido's while to commit to another production run, but will generate sales for our speculative investors.

In 3 or 4 years, it may be worth another production run of 1000 by Rapido but then it will be their product and we will have no input.   However, they are not committed to this and may have other projects that take priority in factory time and money.

I would strongly recommend anyone who wants a Pendolino to get it this time round!

cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on January 25, 2015, 01:05:00 pm
Order #439 just placed! Nice to see the numbers slowly creeping up.

Here's to a shiny Pendolino-shaped future...not to mention all sorts of other exciting potential developments!  :beers:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on January 25, 2015, 03:13:32 pm
Thanks Mickster04, just the question I was thinking of. Hopefully I have the "pre-order" reference number. I am unsure if Rapido have deleted my card details like Kickstarter would have when the target was not reached. The risk is being charged twice.

I placed a preorder with Rapido yesterday, their website hasn't been changed since the Kickstarter failed. On RMWeb Jason did say they would probably be making some changes soon. My guess is they'll hold the price until Jan 31 for all international buyers.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 25, 2015, 06:08:11 pm
I've just sent an email to Rapido Trains just to clarify the position.  As I said, I had "pre-ordered" as a part of the Kickstarter campaign so not sure if that order stands or has fallen away.  As jpendle says the Rapido website looks no different pre and post Kickstarter deadline.  I'm just putting my Kickstarter "mark" down.  My GWR steamers will need to return to the engine shed when the Pendolino arrives :laugh3:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 25, 2015, 06:12:35 pm

Hi all,

Jason did tell me verbally that he was going to honour the Kickstarter price for anyone who'd preordered with Rapido by the deadline but I see now harm in confirming that with him via email.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 25, 2015, 06:23:32 pm
Thanks Ben.  My concern is do I "re-order" as the Europeans have or is my "pre-order" sufficient.  I'll just wait for the reply from Rapido.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on January 25, 2015, 06:32:48 pm
Now that it won't help get over the Kickstarter finish line, I have placed my order via Rapido for delivery to the US (assuming I'm still here in a year or two). Free shipping was a nice bonus.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JonHarbour on January 25, 2015, 09:10:46 pm
I contacted Rapido about three days ago and Jason responded almost immediately. Having ordered the 9-car set with DCC sound, I wanted to know if I could add the extra two cars to it. He replied "yes" and stated that the Rapido web site would be updated in the very near future with more information. Can't wait....
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on January 25, 2015, 10:52:53 pm
Order placed for 3 x 11 car sets.  (order #437)
Order #439 just placed! Nice to see the numbers slowly creeping up.
Ah, so by deduction, each order can be for more than one units so the total number of units ordered is probably significantly more than 439.

I guess the 50% deposit helps. It would be a win/win scenario of the orders exceed the kickstarter pledges  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on January 25, 2015, 11:44:11 pm
Karhdron,

In a perfect world I would say you are right, but it's a question of how many people were pledging for a number of them for to then sell some on who may only be pledging for one now.
Although with the deposit now option I think the figure may be a little more favourable but not by as much as people would think!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on January 26, 2015, 03:53:36 am
Like JonHarbour, I had an almost immediate response from Jason at Rapido. My deposit to be taken next month at Kickstarter price.
All's well that ends well  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on January 26, 2015, 06:20:50 am
I must say Jason is superb at responding to any queries and it a real pleasure to have a manufacturer so helpful.

Tops marks to Rapido  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 26, 2015, 06:15:31 pm
So to summarise, because I think these changes need to be made clear, those who supported the KS campaign will now be getting exactly the same sets as those who didn't, the only difference being the pre-order price. There will no longer be any limited edition sets, anyone can order one and Rapido can produce as many as they like. There could be 1000 units, or there could be 2000 if the demand is there.

As to the two-car sets:

Ok, if the extra £7 covers P&P then the checkout P&P for this set needs to be set to £0.00.

Or you could just choose the free delivery option...

Would that be the free shipping option that's clearly marked "deposits only" ??? I could do that, if I was ordering a two-car set on its own. However the rest of my order probably doesn't qualify for free delivery to France, so fixing the checkout P&P for the two-car sets would allow me to complete my order without having an extra tenner in hidden P&P added on when I select the correct delivery option that's relevant to me. As it stands, the incorrect P&P is stopping me from placing my order.

Still, if the purpose of the two-car sets is not to extend the 9-car sets I stand to be corrected  :worried:

I'm afraid you stand corrected - once we made the decision to offer the 11-car sets then the 2-car sets became eactly that ie to model the delivery trains (or for people prepared to play a long game to re-inforce the 9-car sets).

My mistake then. The Kickstarter reward for the two-car sets was labelled "2 additional cars (U and F) to make up an 11-car Pendolino" and the Rapido website markets them as an "add on set", so you can see where I got that silly idea from. I doubt I'm the only person buying these packs who has been led to believe they'll be suitable for extending a 9-car set, and I would have thought this usage would be the primary market for the packs. If the intended use for these is not in fact to extend sets but rather to model obscure delivery trains by hauling them around with locos and flat wagons built to a different scale, then you may want to change the descriptions for what you're selling.

Quote
I think you are overthinking this - you don't know the level of sets ordered (it was nothing like what you are suggesting!), nor am I sure what the relevance of the Rapido orders is - the reality is that regardless of Rapido if the KS had made its target then it would have gone ahead.

My estimate might be a bit on the low side but if it really was "nothing like" the 550 I suggested then we would have made the £210k target. If we ignore the smaller rewards and average out the price of a unit to £320 (£255, £285, £350, £380), the campaign only needed to secure bids for a total of 650-odd units to get past the post, or about 620 if you add the £10k worth of smaller reward pledges back in. In the best case scenario we could have made it with pledges for just 553 units if everyone splashed out on a DCC 11-car set, and in the worst case 824 units if everyone just opted for the DC 9-car set. Taking that same average price of £320, at £194k the Kickstarter was only 50 units away from succeeding, so that would put us at around 570 units pledged for. Maybe there were hundreds more, but if that's the case I don't quite understand why the KS failed.

The relevance of the Rapido pre-orders is that these should have contributed to the Kickstarter (otherwise what was the point in taking pre-orders before the campaign was over?). The fact that there was no announcement regarding a big pledge from Rapido for x units would suggest either they didn't receive anywhere near enough pre-orders to push us over the line (and so didn't place a pledge), or they did but made a decision to let the campaign fail.

Anyway, I look forward to being able to place my order once the P&P issues are sorted on the website.

Cheers,

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 26, 2015, 07:29:55 pm

Hello JB,

The 2-car sets can be used to strengthen the 9-car sets (as long as you're happy to renumber your unit from 390-0XX to 390-1XX (or aren't bothered) or to depict the delivery trains that ran from Italy, through France and southern England to the Midlands. We mentioned them to maximise the appeal of this option.  You can run them with Dapol or Farish Colas 66s to the same scale, but you will need to accept a 1:160 scale match wagon unless you're ready to use the 3D print version available.

I'm sure the postage will be sorted out.

As to the kickstarter total - the number of models needed to justify production was always 1000 9-car units or the equivalent. Rapido agreed to take 200 off the shelf, reducing the Kickstarter goal from £250K to £210K so unless they'd sold significantly more than 200 their sales figures up to the deadline are somewhat irrelevant.

Anyway, we are where we are.  As has been explained we just don't know how many models Rapido will choose to make but my estimate is not many if we get to 1000 orders.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 26, 2015, 09:21:30 pm
Would that be the free shipping option that's clearly marked "deposits only" ??? I could do that, if I was ordering a two-car set on its own. However the rest of my order probably doesn't qualify for free delivery to France, so fixing the checkout P&P for the two-car sets would allow me to complete my order without having an extra tenner in hidden P&P added on when I select the correct delivery option that's relevant to me. As it stands, the incorrect P&P is stopping me from placing my order.

Email me or PM me about what you are trying to do with your order and I will see if we can sort something out with the website.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: johnlambert on January 26, 2015, 10:26:04 pm
Order placed, decided to upgrade from DC to DCC compared with my Kickstarter pledge.  I started out just pledging for a couple of coaches; the way things are going I'll have a fleet of Pendolinos on order by the time the model is ready.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on January 27, 2015, 12:27:27 am
I ordered tonight #481 (that's a good number of orders!) I scaled back my order from two DC (9 and 11-car) to one DCC 11-car as my next layout will be 1990's Wales and my good friend Jon has already ordered x2 9-car units. There is only so much space in the fiddle yard! It will be waiting for that future project when it comes. Now I must get a Desiro before they're all sold out.....  :help:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on January 28, 2015, 08:43:01 am
Order placed #505 and deposit paid !

This is a higher order number than the Kickstarter backers - 491  :hmmm: :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on January 28, 2015, 09:56:37 am
I admit I have made 2 orders. Didn't buy enough on the first order :)

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 28, 2015, 10:07:59 am
This is a higher order number than the Kickstarter backers - 491  :hmmm: :hmmm:

That's because the order system didn't start at 1 and I think also because every time starts an order but doesn't complete it a new order number is created.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on January 28, 2015, 10:19:41 am
It would be interesting to see a bit of an approximate breakdown of what has been ordered as of the deadline date.

Might not be possible but if we could that would be great.

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 28, 2015, 10:48:02 am
Hi Ali

I'm reluctant to give too much detail for two reasons:
- it is commercially useful information
- I don't want people to jump to the wrong conclusions

There is clearly a lot of interest in how many have been ordered etc and what that means, but some of the guesswork has been significantly off target which isn't helpful (particularly if it gives the impression that the model is more or less popular than reality).

What I will say is that the proportions of models being ordered is largely in line with what we saw with Kickstarter. The 11 car sets are more popular than the 9 (and the 5 car sets are barely worth producing in terms of orders though we recognise the potential retail value they have).  I suspect the popularity of the 11-car sets is partly down to the fact that it includes the only named/numbered/special livery set in the Poppy set.

We are very pleased with the retention rate of Kickstarter backers though there are still a significant number of potential orders still - please don't forget the deadline of 31 January to make sure you keep the Kickstarter prices. We will send out a final reminder through Kickstarter on Friday, then that will probably be the last message we send through Kickstarter as we transition to our own website.

We are off to laser scan the Pendolino at Crewe tomorrow and I'll put some pictures up.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on January 28, 2015, 10:58:09 am
I assumed that that would be the case.

Not a problem just the cogs spinning inside thinking about other interesting products.

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mika on January 28, 2015, 11:01:18 am
We are off to laser scan the Pendolino at Crewe tomorrow and I'll put some pictures up.
Cheers, Mike

 :claphappy: Really looking forward to that. It'll be interesting to see a model being developed, something you usually don't experience.

Michael
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 28, 2015, 11:02:31 am

We are off to laser scan the Pendolino at Crewe tomorrow and I'll put some pictures up.

Cheers, Mike

It's going to be very cold I fear but hopefully no snow!!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 28, 2015, 11:08:16 am
It's going to be very cold I fear but hopefully no snow!!!

Hmm - the latest BBC weather forecast does not look great.  Cold should be fine, but now predicting heavy snow around midday....eeek!

M
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on January 28, 2015, 11:10:05 am
Not a problem just the cogs spinning inside thinking about other interesting products.

I'm always happy to discuss ideas for potential future products (either online or by email/PM)!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 28, 2015, 11:13:57 am
It's going to be very cold I fear but hopefully no snow!!!

Hmm - the latest BBC weather forecast does not look great.  Cold should be fine, but now predicting heavy snow around midday....eeek!

M

Best pack a broom and a shovel too then ! :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 28, 2015, 11:50:02 am
Hope the Laser won't pick up the Snowflakes otherwise it will show up a few bumps and patches that shouldn't be there .
Good luck and don't get too cold ,
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 28, 2015, 05:35:10 pm
Weren't there some snowflakes on that Traindeer livery? :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 28, 2015, 07:16:56 pm
Email me or PM me about what you are trying to do with your order and I will see if we can sort something out with the website.

Cheers, Mike

All I wanted to do was to add a two-car set to my order and pay for it in full but I couldn't do that without having an extra tenner in P&P added on due to the P&P error on the two-car sets. Didn't want to miss the deadline waiting for it to be sorted out so I ended up just placing a 50% deposit on the one 9-car set for myself, at least the missus is happy I'm no longer forking out £660  ;)

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 28, 2015, 07:26:28 pm

Hi JB,

Then everyone's a winner - not least Mrs JB!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on January 29, 2015, 10:57:28 am
Email me or PM me about what you are trying to do with your order and I will see if we can sort something out with the website.

Cheers, Mike

All I wanted to do was to add a two-car set to my order and pay for it in full but I couldn't do that without having an extra tenner in P&P added on due to the P&P error on the two-car sets. Didn't want to miss the deadline waiting for it to be sorted out so I ended up just placing a 50% deposit on the one 9-car set for myself, at least the missus is happy I'm no longer forking out £660  ;)

JB

Hi

Am I missing something here? If you had ordered the 11 car set then you would have got the two extra coaches as part of that.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 29, 2015, 03:20:18 pm
Am I missing something here?

Yes :D I'm not after an 11-car set as they don't suit my era or location (even a 9-car set is pushing it really as I'm technically only modelling up to 1999, but don't tell anyone!). I originally pledged for two 9-car sets and a 2-car set in order to fund my investment - as had been repeatedly suggested by the team - by selling on the extra sets. Since I was met with a brick wall when pointing out the issue with P&P on the two-car sets I just gave up on trying to buy what I wanted, paid a 50% deposit on just the one unit for myself, pre-ordered a new Dapol HST from Hattons instead and eventually came around to, right this minute, placing a separate order for a two-car set (and alarmingly discovering that Swipe, the card payment provider, saves your card details without asking...)

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on January 29, 2015, 03:24:06 pm
Whilst in Snow Bound Crewe today we noticed that Mike was back to old habits and had to explain that whilst during the 1990's he may have had a huge collection of car badges he should leave this one alone!!

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on January 29, 2015, 03:27:53 pm
I hope that the snow is scraped off before they laser-scan it. Otherwise the model may end up with an interesting texture.  :doh:

 ;D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 29, 2015, 04:19:37 pm
Am I missing something here?

Yes :D I'm not after an 11-car set as they don't suit my era or location (even a 9-car set is pushing it really as I'm technically only modelling up to 1999, but don't tell anyone!). I originally pledged for two 9-car sets and a 2-car set in order to fund my investment - as had been repeatedly suggested by the team - by selling on the extra sets. Since I was met with a brick wall when pointing out the issue with P&P on the two-car sets I just gave up on trying to buy what I wanted, paid a 50% deposit on just the one unit for myself, pre-ordered a new Dapol HST from Hattons instead and eventually came around to, right this minute, placing a separate order for a two-car set (and alarmingly discovering that Swipe, the card payment provider, saves your card details without asking...)

JB

I'm a bit lost as well.......

So you originally wanted to pledge for two nine-car sets and one two-car set?

Why didn't you just buy one nine-car set and one eleven-car set and, on delivery, remove two coaches from the eleven-car set.......?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 29, 2015, 04:50:41 pm
Am I missing something here?

Yes :D I'm not after an 11-car set as they don't suit my era or location (even a 9-car set is pushing it really as I'm technically only modelling up to 1999, but don't tell anyone!). I originally pledged for two 9-car sets and a 2-car set in order to fund my investment - as had been repeatedly suggested by the team - by selling on the extra sets. Since I was met with a brick wall when pointing out the issue with P&P on the two-car sets I just gave up on trying to buy what I wanted, paid a 50% deposit on just the one unit for myself, pre-ordered a new Dapol HST from Hattons instead and eventually came around to, right this minute, placing a separate order for a two-car set (and alarmingly discovering that Swipe, the card payment provider, saves your card details without asking...)

JB

I'm a bit lost as well.......

So you originally wanted to pledge for two nine-car sets and one two-car set?

Why didn't you just buy one nine-car set and one eleven-car set and, on delivery, remove two coaches from the eleven-car set.......?

Two reasons:

1) I'm not sure "two unboxed coaches" and a "390/1 with two coaches missing from the pack" would quite have the same resale value on eBay as the boxed two-car set and complete 390/0 I wanted to order. Keeping the 390/1 for myself and removing two coaches from it would mean I'd either be left with a 9-car unit with an incorrect number, or I'd have to renumber it, which seems a bit silly when 9-car units are available out of the box.

2) When I order items from an online shop I blinking well expect to be able to order what I want to order and not have to find a workaround. Of course I could have selected the free postage option as I was instructed, but all that would have done is caused problems further down the line when it became apparent that I hadn't paid enough postage on my total order.

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 29, 2015, 05:06:00 pm
Am I missing something here?

Yes :D I'm not after an 11-car set as they don't suit my era or location (even a 9-car set is pushing it really as I'm technically only modelling up to 1999, but don't tell anyone!). I originally pledged for two 9-car sets and a 2-car set in order to fund my investment - as had been repeatedly suggested by the team - by selling on the extra sets. Since I was met with a brick wall when pointing out the issue with P&P on the two-car sets I just gave up on trying to buy what I wanted, paid a 50% deposit on just the one unit for myself, pre-ordered a new Dapol HST from Hattons instead and eventually came around to, right this minute, placing a separate order for a two-car set (and alarmingly discovering that Swipe, the card payment provider, saves your card details without asking...)

JB

I'm a bit lost as well.......

So you originally wanted to pledge for two nine-car sets and one two-car set?

Why didn't you just buy one nine-car set and one eleven-car set and, on delivery, remove two coaches from the eleven-car set.......?

Two reasons:

1) I'm not sure "two unboxed coaches" and a "390/1 with two coaches missing from the pack" would quite have the same resale value on eBay as the boxed two-car set and complete 390/0 I wanted to order. Keeping the 390/1 for myself and removing two coaches from it would mean I'd either be left with a 9-car unit with an incorrect number, or I'd have to renumber it, which seems a bit silly when 9-car units are available out of the box.

2) When I order items from an online shop I blinking well expect to be able to order what I want to order and not have to find a workaround. Of course I could have selected the free postage option as I was instructed, but all that would have done is caused problems further down the line when it became apparent that I hadn't paid enough postage on my total order.

JB

With regard to point 1, I can see where your coming from and if that's your thinking then fair enough, it's pretty reasonable.

However on point 2, I think you're being a little bit disrespectful. It isn't a shop, it's a couple of guys who are working as best as they can to bring a product to market for the good of railway modellers. AND, bearing in mind that the kickstarter failed, they've gone above and beyond by quickly coming up with and implementing a Plan B. On top of their day jobs, and their own private lives. In addition, they've had to bite their tongues at times and deal with the sniping and moaning about the product, the Kickstarter, the unfairness of plan B, etc., etc. I think, maybe, you could cut them some slack.  But that's just me.

You chose not to take that option, which of course is your choice. You could also discussed the issue by PM, rather than on a public forum. A workaround was provided for you, and it is documented in the event that there was a dispute further down the line.

Just my view.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 29, 2015, 06:46:07 pm
I agree with  ScottyStich ,  Ben And Mike have been so helpfull and we're very quick to put plan B into effect Mike even sorted out a silly mistake I made in my hurry to order after my wife eventually said go ahead so I think we should be very great full to them both for all their hard work after all as you say it's not a  SHOP so the same things don't apply and even shops make changes in delivery dates and specifications so do the big manufacturers.
Jason could have said that the Kickstarter failed  so tough luck the Pendolino won't be made at all so as I've said before a big Thankyou must go to him as well for honouring the kickstarter price ,let's look forward to March next year when we all get our orders .
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on January 29, 2015, 09:08:29 pm
A website offering the possibility to order and pay for things is generally referred to as a shop, but let's agree to disagree on that one. As much as I'd like to believe Rapido have saved the project out of pure charity as some seem to be suggesting, I can't help but think there's at least a little bit of financial and business incentive for them to have done so. It's good to hear your order's been sorted, but I can't say that in my case I found the suggestion that I was missing the obvious by not having chosen the free delivery option for an order which obviously didn't qualify for free delivery particularly helpful, if I'm completely honest.

Still, if there's enough demand that the project can afford to essentially send customers packing when they point out a problem with the ordering system rather than sort it out then that's a very positive thing.

I'll say no more on the matter. I've placed my order, and I look forward to seeing the model develop (minus low-relief snowflakes on the bodyshell).

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on January 29, 2015, 09:21:21 pm
Would that be the free shipping option that's clearly marked "deposits only" ??? I could do that, if I was ordering a two-car set on its own. However the rest of my order probably doesn't qualify for free delivery to France, so fixing the checkout P&P for the two-car sets would allow me to complete my order without having an extra tenner in hidden P&P added on when I select the correct delivery option that's relevant to me. As it stands, the incorrect P&P is stopping me from placing my order.


Email me or PM me about what you are trying to do with your order and I will see if we can sort something out with the website.

Cheers, Mike

Doesn't look like you were sent packing, or hitting a brick wall. Looks to me like Mike and Ben were offering to help you. Judging by the date of Mike's post, it seems like they were doing so with plenty time still to run on the clock (31st of jan it closes isn't it?).

Anyway, as you were.  Agree to disagree.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 30, 2015, 09:12:17 am

Hello all,

JB:  I'm glad you seem to have got sorted out.  Mike and I will do our best to help people where we can but when the Kickstarter did not reach its goal, and we had to activate plan B, we didn't have much time to create a new website that has all the selling functionality required.

I don't know anything about website design, so Mike's had to do it all pretty much unaided, and for free, and I think he's done a pretty good job.

There are bound to be a few teething problems - I don't think either of us has done this before - but thanks for bearing with us while we get it sorted.  And if you run into difficulties again a PM should do the trick - we were able to sort out Bob's problem I think.

Moving on.... just a more detailed update on our activities yesterday, for those interested....

First, thanks to Paul (Only Me) for posting a photo yesterday.  He'd agreed to come along in case we needed an extra pair of hands, though as the scanning people did not come in the end there was less to do than expected.  We only discovered the scanning team were snowed in once already en route, so we decided to complete the journey anway and at least recce the area, especially as we'd agreet to meet Gareth (acko22) to say thank-you for his work in sorting out the Royal British Legion with the Poppy Pendolino.

The Pendolino is at the Virgin training centre, which they call the talent academy:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_20784.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20784)

Emily from Virgin let us in and through to the Pendolino they keep for training.  L-R Mike, Gareth, Emily, self:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_20780.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20780)

These cars are from the rear of the unit that crashed at Grayrigg.  At the side is one of the damaged pantographs, which was useful for taking measurements:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_20785.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20785)

It was a good job the laser scanning guys didn't come, as the snow on the Pendo would have made it impossible ult to scan anyway.  Even wiping the snow off would not have helped that much as the "wet" surface would tend to scatter the laser light and make readings less accurate, or so I am told!

The most important part of the scan are the curved bits - the nose profile and the roof contours - as the straight lines can be easily translated from the 2D drawings we have.  When the CAD designers come to design the model they will use the data from the scan combined with information from Alstom's 2D drawings shown earlier in the thread.

These pics show the extent of the difficulty:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_20783.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20783)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_20781.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20781)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_20782.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20782)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_20786.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=20786)

So today I am in contact with Virgin and the scanning people to rearrange a date all can do, which we are hoping will be next week.  There will always be minor setbacks in any project such as this, but of course when we do get the scan done we'll be able to show further progress.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: REGP on January 30, 2015, 04:32:07 pm
After a struggle with the web site managed to place my order which was number 590.

So numbers are still climbing, I wonder what it will peak at for the lower price.

Ray
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on January 30, 2015, 09:04:19 pm

Hi all,

I just thought it might be helpful to remind anyone who backed us on Kickstarter that the deadline for getting the cheaper rate is tomorrow at midnight.  After that, anyone ordering will have to pay the higher price.

We have to draw the line at some point and any Kickstarter backers who contact us on Sunday or after wards because they forgot, or were too busy, or had their credit card eaten by the dog, will be politely told that the deadline has passed.

If you are a Kickstarter backer remember that under plan B we only require 50% of the payment up front, though if you DO have a genuine problem get in touch before the deadline  by PM or contact on the purchase website and we will endeavour to assist.

If you did pledge, this is the last chance to take advantage of the loyalty reward on offer!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Dany on January 30, 2015, 11:07:08 pm
I ordered what i originally pledged for using Mike's manual process, which went fast. Paid for in full today. No problems.

Now i am really looking forward to whitnessing the progress of the project, being able to vote on the running numbers to be produced and enjoying the final product in the end.
 :thankyousign:
Dany
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jools on January 31, 2015, 12:17:05 am
I wish I could justify ordering another unit at the kickstarter prices to thank the guys for their work even further, but it's just not practicable for me.  :(

As it is, this post will have to suffice - Thanks to all involved so far - especially to Mike who's sorted a couple of queries for me via email promptly and without question  - what a guy
 :thankyousign:


I am,  as I'm sure we all are, Now really looking forward to seeing the development of the project through to completion, it's gonna be fun  :laugh3:
 
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on January 31, 2015, 11:51:49 pm
just got Order 666 in - another Poppylino

At least no more pain till Q4 this year!

Nick R
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on February 01, 2015, 12:06:07 am
Good evening ladies and Gents,

As the sales for the Pendolino go public I just wanted to give my thanks to Mike and Ben for going with the Poppypendo and a massive thank you to everyone who has paid the extra ten pounds for the Poppypendo having spoke the Mike and Ben it has raised a great amount already and no doubt will do so until sales close.

As a soldier (for my sins :-\ ) I k ow what help the RBL gives to servicemen, veterans and their families and I know that all money raised will go to great use.

Many thanks to you all regards

Gareth
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on February 01, 2015, 01:31:53 am
Poppypendo orders have raised over 1000 pounds as of today!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on February 01, 2015, 06:39:33 am
:claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:  Brilliant  :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on February 01, 2015, 08:29:05 am


Hello all,

Non-Kickstarter backers who want to order a Pendolino can do so via our website www.revolutiontrains.com (http://www.revolutiontrains.com)

You can either py the full amount, which plenty of our Kickstarter backers have done, or just 50% now and 50% when the model is ready for delivery.

If you order soon you'll still be able to take part in selecting the actual number sets to be produced.

If not the order book will remain open until we actually "lock down" the exact number we need to produce. We think this will be in September, probably just after TINGS, and that will be the last chance as we will only produce models ordered by that point.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on February 01, 2015, 08:43:46 am
Hi Ben/Mike....

I did ponder at length upping my order before the deadline above what I have already committed to, but a FGW HST set came up for a good price and I was swayed that way instead....

However, you do still have a fair investment from me.....looking forward to the regular updates.

I wonder if Bachmann or traders have seen a resurgence in interests or sales of the Desiro as a result of this project.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on February 01, 2015, 08:57:01 am
£1000 raised so far is fantastic , My Dad was in the RBL and when he died I was only seventeen and my Mum was disabled so I was the only bread winner I was in a financial mess I couldn't afford to pay all the bills on my apprentership wages but a lady and gentleman from the RBL came to see us one day and came to the rescue they paid the rent and electic for us untill I could sort out how to manage .
I will always be thankful to them.You would be surprised how much help they give behind the scenes. One charity I will always support.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jameswgm on February 01, 2015, 09:19:32 am
Ordered my 9 car last night, so pleased the Pendo project is going ahead. Look forward to hearing further developments.
James.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ollie3440 on February 02, 2015, 07:15:05 pm
Got my pair ordered on Friday night. One 9 and one 11 car. So now time to think about where I'm going to run them, might be a bit too long for Sheaf!!

Cheers,

Ollie

 :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on February 02, 2015, 08:04:45 pm
With the landslip at Harbury severing the Chiltern line today my trip to London was by Pendolino. So while Mike and Ben were on "scanning" duty in Crewe I thought I should take a closer look at the outside of the train.

One thing that struck me was that the bonded glazing is very flush wth the bodyside, with the individual window outlines barely visible almost like the printed glazing and livery on the Farish 168/170/mk3 coaches. It will be interesting to see how Rapido choose to represent it.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on February 02, 2015, 08:24:16 pm

Hello all,

The scan went ahead as planned today - no more snow problems!  In fact the weather - dull, dry, overcast - was described by David and Jonathan McCrory from Scantech International (of Macclesfield) as ideal scanning conditions.  Bright sunlight, or a wet, rainy surface, can cause reflections, especially of metal or painted items, that cause the laser problems.

David and Jonathan use a £70K Leica scanner.  They position it around the train at various heights and positions to create a series of images.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_21038.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21038)

The 5m tripod ensures even the roof details are captured.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_21037.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21037)

The scanner is controlled by a bluetooth link and progress can be checked.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_21036.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21036)

To get the whole thing we did have to step into the undergrowth!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_21035.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21035)

For each pass of the dozen or so performed, the scanner records individual points at the rate of 1 million per second, to an accuracy of smaller than two millionths of a millimetre when scaled to N.  The next step is for that massive amount of data to be combined into a single 3D image with all extraneous details - trees, fences, buildings etc cropped out.

This is then sent to the model CAD designers in China, and they will use it as the basis of the model CAD drawings, ensuring the various shapes - particularly the subtle curves around the nose - are captured accurately.

Later this week I should receive a rough "point cloud" showing the full result of the scan, and I will post those results here if they show up!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on February 02, 2015, 08:26:36 pm
Exciting times :thumbsup: - such a beautiful train
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on February 02, 2015, 08:34:25 pm

The scan went ahead as planned today - no more snow problems!  In fact the weather - dull, dry, overcast - was described by David and Jonathan McCrory from Scantech International (of Macclesfield) as ideal scanning conditions. 

If from Macclesfield couldn't they just have set up the scanner on Platform 2 and scanned a Pendo as it stopped there?  :confused1:

Nice to hear of international companies based in Macc - my home town!

Cheers Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on February 02, 2015, 09:53:13 pm

Hello all,

The scan went ahead as planned today - no more snow problems!  In fact the weather - dull, dry, overcast

Damn - that's the summer come early and gone, then :'(
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: UPINSMOKE on February 02, 2015, 10:05:45 pm
Not so long ago this seemed like a dream, now its become reality. :claphappy: Keep the information coming really enjoying the updates  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on February 03, 2015, 08:31:13 am

If from Macclesfield couldn't they just have set up the scanner on Platform 2 and scanned a Pendo as it stopped there?  :confused1:

Nice to hear of international companies based in Macc - my home town!

Cheers Jon  :)

Did you want your two with the doors open Jon?!  :confused1:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MikeDunn on February 03, 2015, 08:58:04 am
You mean they stop there ??? !!! 

I thought it sped through at maximum warp !!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PostModN66 on February 03, 2015, 09:46:48 am
They used to stop more than they do now.   My mum has to get a Northern 323 to Stoke on Trent and change , which is annoying.

On the topic of the open doors - I am assuming that on the model all the doors will automatically open(platform side only) when it stops at a station, with appropriate beeping sounds on the sound chip (right Ben and Mike?)

Another Macclesfield link is apparently the Virgin "Tilting Ale" is brewed in Macc.  Not sure where specifically - there was no brewery when I lived there!

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on February 03, 2015, 10:27:00 am

Hi Jon,

The door closing sounds will feature on the sound chip.

As you'll know the doors only open if the button is pressed.  Obviously we will include this feature, but you'll have to provide the tiny working model passenger to press it ;-)

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: trainsdownunder on February 03, 2015, 10:32:14 am
 :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on February 03, 2015, 10:41:33 am

Hi Jon,

The door closing sounds will feature on the sound chip.

As you'll know the doors only open if the button is pressed.  Obviously we will include this feature, but you'll have to provide the tiny working model passenger to press it ;-)

Cheers

Ben A.


That will be the Preiser 010416 Buttonpressenfrauleinmitlangenleggen. Available in April next year.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_21046.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21046)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on February 03, 2015, 11:59:05 am
Dont knock it till yoy've tried it!! ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on February 03, 2015, 01:22:26 pm
from 1/4/15 all orders will come with DCC controlled Pendostink feature
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on February 05, 2015, 03:24:13 pm
Hello folks

A quick update with the first image from the scan:

(http://www.revolutiontrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Pendo_scan1.jpg)

We've also received some more CAD from Virgin:

(http://www.revolutiontrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_0740-300x245.jpg)

If you've placed an order for a Pendolino then you can view all the images (and latest updates) here:
http://www.revolutiontrains.com/pendolino/pendolino-development/ (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/pendolino/pendolino-development/) (please note you must be logged in to your account - the user name / email and password are the ones you supplied when you placed your order).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on February 05, 2015, 03:29:51 pm
Thanks Mike.
But what about those of us who ordered via Rapido   :(

I'm sure you have a cunning plan  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on February 05, 2015, 03:50:28 pm
Hi Trev

Infidels from outside the European Superstate have to suffer in silence  :laugh:

No seriously, you can register on the site for an account and I will manually assign you the relevant permission so you can the developments too.  If the same situation affects anyone else then please register and just drop me a PM or email.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on February 05, 2015, 04:13:04 pm
Me suffer in silence!  I am rattling Dapol's cage to get my Collectors club membership taken!

 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on February 05, 2015, 05:25:45 pm
Really enjoyed the video on the Revolution trains site - thanks Ben  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on February 05, 2015, 10:22:44 pm
Hi Mike  Ben thanks for the update great to see
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on February 06, 2015, 11:47:26 pm
Good to see the Pendolino and Revolution Trains getting comprehensive coverage in the Rapido Trains advertisement in the March edition of BRM - British Railway Modelling. Now is that an Adelante they have just scanned?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on February 07, 2015, 08:05:08 am

Hello all,

Some more progress on the Pendo.  While the scanning company are doing the CAD work to prepare to send our 3D scan files to China, Virgin have been sending more information on the liveries.

Among them, this rather lovely drawing showing details of the Poppy Pendo cabside markings which I thought I'd share....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/32/thumb_21224.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21224)


cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on February 07, 2015, 12:30:44 pm
Now is that an Adelante they have just scanned?

Oooh... I will have to have one (or two) of those! Used to commute on one if I got up early enough.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: pape_timmo on February 12, 2015, 12:02:32 pm
Finally managed to get thru the whole thread, and looked at the update on Revolution Trains website, very impressed with the scans and details so far.

I increased my pledge from KS when I placed my order on RT, and am so looking forward to the progress.

Huge thanks to Mike, Ben and the Rapido guys for making this happen.

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on February 24, 2015, 08:52:49 am
I still haven't heard from rapido. How do I chase up?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on February 24, 2015, 08:58:20 am

Hello Mickster,

If you've emailed and telephoned them with no response then I'm sorry, I don't know how else you can chase up your order.

However, I know Rapido have been busy with the aftermath of several big US announcements at the Springfield show, so that may be why they haven't got back to you yet.  Since we are still only at the CAD development stage there is plenty of time.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on February 24, 2015, 09:17:31 am
Yeah, I haven't tried too much. I'll drop em a line sometime :) I expect they'll say something when they're ready :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JonHarbour on February 24, 2015, 09:51:16 am
Yeah, I haven't tried too much. I'll drop em a line sometime :) I expect they'll say something when they're ready :)

Generally speaking Jason usually gets back pretty quickly. I've e-mailed them a couple of times and Jason has responded within 48 hours. Allowing for the time difference that's quite reasonable I think. :)

Try dropping an e-mail.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on February 24, 2015, 12:50:30 pm
Hi Mickster. Try a repeat e-mail. If Jason has been busy, his inbox probably got full... when that happens he just misses some and he won't mind a reminder.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NTrain on February 24, 2015, 03:19:52 pm
They recently advertised for someone to help with e-mails etc, as they are getting much more traffic due to the various UK projects they have been involved with.

The job description was quite something. According to my sister, who lives in Winnipeg, it was typical Canadian humour.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on February 26, 2015, 01:32:11 am
as y'all expected, i got a reply! excellent, now I just need to work out how to get the dev updates on http://www.revolutiontrains.com/ (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/) :) how do I put my pre-order number in to get me access?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on February 26, 2015, 03:58:22 am
Hi Mickster,
In brief what was Jason's reply?
When I emailed I was advised orders placed with Rapido would be honored and monies taken "next" month - next month would have been February. I see their website is saying order by I think 2 March so perhaps my money will be taken thereafter.
Cheers
Trev
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on February 26, 2015, 07:52:13 pm
Hi Mickster,
In brief what was Jason's reply?
When I emailed I was advised orders placed with Rapido would be honored and monies taken "next" month - next month would have been February. I see their website is saying order by I think 2 March so perhaps my money will be taken thereafter.
Cheers
Trev

I had wanted to get a second pendo and had an odd shipping request. Dan confirmed I can comfortably get a second one on my order, and they said they would see what they could do about shipping!
They didn't give any dates of any further comms though.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cooper on February 27, 2015, 08:35:03 pm
I saw a new livery variation today, something 'Union Jack-y' about business on each power car. Anyone found a picture of it on the t'interweb yet?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on March 02, 2015, 07:38:46 pm
Hello all,

A progress update:  The images obtained during the 3D scan have now been cleaned up to remove extra detail and are being turned into CAD drawings.  Here are a couple of the original "point cloud" images - these of course are 2D shapshots of what is a 3D file:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/30/thumb_22311.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=22311)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/30/thumb_22310.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=22310)

And here is a very early draft of the CAD derived from the 3D imagery:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/30/thumb_22312.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=22312)

Please note this is an early draft and lacking lots of the detail, panel lines etc that will be added - for now the key is just making sure the basic shape is right.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on March 02, 2015, 07:48:36 pm
 :laugh3: :greatpicturessign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on March 02, 2015, 09:27:16 pm
Presumably the chimney fits into that strange indentation in the roof :laugh:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on March 02, 2015, 11:52:08 pm
Hi Ben, many thanks for the updates, super pictures.
  regards Derek.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Trainfish on March 03, 2015, 01:24:16 am
Presumably the chimney fits into that strange indentation in the roof :laugh:

That's a stupid idea Mick. If you put a chimney in there where on earth are you going to shovel the coal?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: railsquid on March 03, 2015, 06:42:32 am
Presumably the chimney fits into that strange indentation in the roof :laugh:

That's a stupid idea Mick. If you put a chimney in there where on earth are you going to shovel the coal?

It's a multiple unit so there'd be a little firebox in each car, I guess?

Anyway will this be available in blue/grey? ;)

Joking aside, looking good and best wishes for the futher success of the project. It's certainly interesting to see the whole process.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: steam-driven boy on March 03, 2015, 11:04:34 am
Hi,
Presumably the chimney fits into that strange indentation in the roof :laugh:


That's a stupid idea Mick. If you put a chimney in there where on earth are you going to shovel the coal?


It's a multiple unit so there'd be a little firebox in each car, I guess?

Anyway will this be available in blue/grey? ;)

Joking aside, looking good and best wishes for the futher success of the project. It's certainly interesting to see the whole process.

It's a little known fabrication that O.V.S. Bullied intended to follow up his Leader project http://www.semgonline.com/steam/pics/leader-06.jpg (http://www.semgonline.com/steam/pics/leader-06.jpg) with a Pendo-Leader:
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Image courtesy of Revolution Trains, Mangled by s-d b with permission - THANKS Ben!

It may not have had much range though, and with the same boiler offset as the Leader all passengers in the power cars would be seated to try and help offset the weight distribution  :worried:

Excellent update, looking forward to more - and my pair of 11-car sets next year  :drool:

Regards, Gerry  8)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 03, 2015, 11:17:10 am
Hello all,

A progress update:  The images obtained during the 3D scan have now been cleaned up to remove extra detail and are being turned into CAD drawings.  Here are a couple of the original "point cloud" images - these of course are 2D shapshots of what is a 3D file:

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/30/thumb_22311.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=22311[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/30/thumb_22310.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=22310[/url])

And here is a very early draft of the CAD derived from the 3D imagery:

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/30/thumb_22312.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=22312[/url])

Please note this is an early draft and lacking lots of the detail, panel lines etc that will be added - for now the key is just making sure the basic shape is right.

cheers

Ben A.


Many thanks Ben,

It's nice to be in on the loop of the design/manufacture of a model train.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on March 03, 2015, 11:24:04 am

Hi Scotty,

No probs - part of the idea of Revolution is that it is a community in which we are all involved.  So far no one has said anything negative about the CAD so I guess we are all agreed it does look pretty much like a Pendo!!

Of course, when the more detailed model CADs arrive we will post those too.

There is of course more content on the Pendo development pages of our website, which is only accessible to those who've ordered, but we want to try to be more inclusive than exclusive...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on April 29, 2015, 09:06:15 pm

Hello all,

The thread's been quiet for a while, but plenty has been going on and we are expecting to see first CADs very soon.

Now it's time for our customers to vote on which 9 numbersets we will produce to go with 390103 Virgin Hero in Poppy Pendolino livery.

We are dedicating the whole of May to this.  From May 1st anyone who's ordered can go to the page that will appear on the Revolution Trains website and select the model they'd like, then, at midnight on May 31st, the 9 most popular will be the ones we produce.

As the orders are registered, a graphic display will show which are the most popular.  Bearing in mind that only the 9 most popular will be chosen, you may wish to change your selection as the deadline approaches.  Every order is good for one selection, so a customer who has ordered two models gets two chances to vote.  Once the deadline has passed anyone who hasn't chosen, or hasn't switched their choice to one of the top 9, will be asked to confirm which they want.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on April 29, 2015, 09:10:45 pm
Finally, a chance to cast a vote that will make a real difference!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: REGP on April 29, 2015, 10:35:41 pm
Ben

If I am not concerned about which number(s) my unit has, do I get the option to say so?

Ray
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on April 29, 2015, 10:49:09 pm

Hi Ray

There's no compulsion to vote - though of course before the models are produced we would anticipate every customer specifying their choice so we know how many of each to produce.  Having said that, it hasn't previously occurred to us that there will be customers who genuinely don't mind which one they get.  I guess we could just randomly add your unit to one of the selected production runs, and then when it arrives it will be a surprise.

Perhaps we should have an additional category for "Mystery Choice"?

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: REGP on April 29, 2015, 11:11:19 pm
Ben

I like the sound of a Mystery Choice.

Ray
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cutting42 on April 30, 2015, 01:49:40 am
Hi Ben and Mike

I have been out of the scene for a few years but maintained a watching brief and am delighted to see this project proceeding so well, glad I saw it in time to join and put my name down. I remember several chats about Pendolinos with both of you several years ago and discussions with Mike about West Coast main line projects, they have taken a step closer.

Hope to get back into it all again when life calms down a bit.

Cheers

Gareth Cutting
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: woodbury22uk on May 01, 2015, 12:24:52 pm
The Revolution Trains site now has a page to vote for preferred set numbers for the Pendolino. One vote per train ordered. Big selection of "Virgin xxx" and "City of  xxxx" names plus some specials in addition to the Poppy livery.

Choices are available under the Pendolino tab after logging in to your account.

https://www.revolutiontrains.com/pendolino/pendolino-set-selection/ (https://www.revolutiontrains.com/pendolino/pendolino-set-selection/)    is the eventual page

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JonHarbour on May 01, 2015, 02:16:38 pm
Just a question for you Ben concerning those who are based outside the EU and have ordered through Rapido, how do we get a say in the process? I put my name down for an eleven car unit with DCC sound (haven't told the wife yet!) and would like to have a say if possible. Really looking forward to receiving the Pendo!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on May 01, 2015, 02:50:56 pm
Hi Jon

Please register for an account on our website and I will set up the necessary permissions.

Thanks, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JonHarbour on May 01, 2015, 02:52:58 pm
Thanks Mike! Will register tomorrow - bit late in AU right now!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on May 01, 2015, 03:03:56 pm
No problem Jon - just prompt me if I appear to have forgotten to enable your access!

I'll put up a live chart of results when we have a few more votes, but initial votes have surprised me a bit - the vote is much more spread than I expected.

Initial frontrunners are perhaps not surprisingly the two non-standard liveries (104 and 151) along with 001. After that 101 Squadron (045) looks a good bet.

Anyone want to indulge in a bit of Friday afternoon fun - pick your top 9 names and let's see who is closest at the end of the month.  :)

Cheers, Mike

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on May 02, 2015, 09:23:02 am
C'mon "Penny the Pendolino"!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: davidinyork on May 12, 2015, 11:14:54 pm
Has it been decided yet what type of couplings will be used within the set?

Thanks
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on May 13, 2015, 12:02:57 am
Has it been decided yet what type of couplings will be used within the set?

Thanks

Hello David,

The cad work is being done right now.  I have specified close coupling and Rapido have already said they want power to be continuous throughout the train, however beyond that the brief is open.

I too am interested to see what they come up with.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Railwaygun on May 13, 2015, 10:40:35 am
I have booked 2x Poppylinos - can I change 1 livery?

( you can keep the £10 for the BL if I do so)

Nicholas Robinson
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on May 13, 2015, 11:11:28 am
Has it been decided yet what type of couplings will be used within the set?

Thanks

Hello David,

The cad work is being done right now.  I have specified close coupling and Rapido have already said they want power to be continuous throughout the train, however beyond that the brief is open.

I too am interested to see what they come up with.

Cheers

Ben A.

As one who doesn't keep their locos out on the layout (I pack 'em away after each running sesh) I just hope they come up with something better than the Brighton Belle as folks seemed to have difficulties with the couplings on that :hmmm:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on May 13, 2015, 01:08:25 pm
I wonder if it's possable to do a smaller version of the Dapol magnetic coupling as on the voyagers and use the magnets to transfer the electrics through the train that would be a lot easier than the BB pins & sockets ,I put my newer Locos away after each evenings session exept the BB it hastostay in the Center line of the fiddle yard rather than risk breaking the coupling system.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on May 13, 2015, 01:17:12 pm
I have booked 2x Poppylinos - can I change 1 livery?

( you can keep the £10 for the BL if I do so)

Nicholas Robinson

Hi Nick

That shouldn't be a problem - please drop us an email confirming this and I will make the order amendment for you.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: davidinyork on May 13, 2015, 04:01:16 pm
Has it been decided yet what type of couplings will be used within the set?

Thanks

Hello David,

The cad work is being done right now.  I have specified close coupling and Rapido have already said they want power to be continuous throughout the train, however beyond that the brief is open.

I too am interested to see what they come up with.

Cheers

Ben A.

I'll keep an eye on what you have to report in due course, then!

Reason for asking is that I think a complete unit is too long for the space I have, but I'd be interested in buying the pair of intermediate carriages to be dragged by a loco as they were when delivered to lengthen the existing sets a couple of years ago - hence wondering about the practicality of coupling them to wagons to represent barrier wagons.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Jools on May 13, 2015, 06:24:32 pm
Submitted my vote
I was a bit torn- 390001 is the only Pendolino I've been on,  but having ordered the 11 car set to (originally) bump up the kickstarter values it wouldn't make any sense to vote for her.

In the end it came down to a decision between Penny the Pendolino and City of Manchester, but having having spent the majority of my life within 30 miles of the place and and some living in the city centre while at uni there was only one outcome really wasn't there! :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Karhedron on May 13, 2015, 08:44:57 pm
There's a city called Penny?  :confused2:

 :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on May 13, 2015, 10:20:57 pm
Typical Liverpool fan, not even from Liverpool!!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on May 13, 2015, 10:41:13 pm
Typical Liverpool fan, not even from Liverpool!!!

I know you live in Manchester dont you? ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on May 13, 2015, 10:44:45 pm
Well when I get home  :-\
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on May 14, 2015, 05:03:39 pm
:thumbsdown:

Hang on a minute. When pledges and pre-orders were being sought we were told we could vote for the units we wanted to see produced. There was no mention that 65% of the 9-car fleet would be excluded from the vote whilst those who ordered 11-car sets would be able to select from the entire 11-car fleet.

I placed my pledge and then my pre-order on the basis that I would get the opportunity to vote for the set I wanted, and that if I didn't get my first choice then there was a fair chance one of my three "backup" options would get enough votes to make it through, since they were units that were named after some of our larger cities and they had been running up and down the WCML for ten years, thus making them attractive for a wider range of layouts and collectors. What I wasn't banking on was ALL FOUR of my choices being arbitrarily excluded from the voting process because they had "only" existed for 10 out of the 13 years that 390s have been in operation (and so apparently couldn't possibly be of interest to anyone). I therefore find myself unable to vote for any of the four sets I was interested in since they aren't listed:

390041 City of Chester
390014 City of Manchester
390030 City of Edinburgh
390031 City of Liverpool

I'm thinking of cancelling my pre-orders to be honest as I feel like I've been had. If I'd known the "candidates" for the vote would be pre-selected and that the majority of the 9-car sets would be excluded from it I wouldn't have been interested. The goalposts have been well and truly moved after we've handed our money over and it's probably too late / complicated now to bin the results of the restricted vote and allow people to start afresh with the full set of options. I don't get why it's been decided that 30+ of the sets that have existed should be left out of the vote (390033 is fair enough).  Of course there's no option to vote for a set with no name or number since nobody in their right mind could want one of the 38 options that have been left out, could they?  ::) I wonder what the steam and early diesel fans would say if Farish and Dapol only produced locomotives that had made it into preservation?

...but I'd be interested in buying the pair of intermediate carriages to be dragged by a loco as they were when delivered to lengthen the existing sets a couple of years ago - hence wondering about the practicality of coupling them to wagons to represent barrier wagons.
.

I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you. The current track record doesn't seem to show much interest in actually offering what was proposed when fishing for pre-orders...

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on May 14, 2015, 05:25:50 pm
City of Manchester is there, unless im missing something?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on May 14, 2015, 05:31:26 pm
City of Manchester is there, unless im missing something?

That's 390114, which is for those who've ordered an 11-car unit. 390014 isn't proposed.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on May 14, 2015, 05:33:56 pm
I may have gone for City of Chester, as I grew up in Ellesmere Port.  But to be honest I'm not too fussed.
What I would like to do is get bespoke nameplates made: "Tranmere Rovers".  Knowing my luck my Pendolino will go off the track and down a ravine and no my layout does NOT have a ravine  :(
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on May 14, 2015, 05:35:54 pm
:thumbsdown:
[TIC mode]
B****r he's twigged at last...

This project is nothing at all to do with producing a niche product to suit as many modellers as possible... the real aim is to deliberately only make whatever JB doesn't want.

I think the designers should go right back to step one and make exactly what JB wants, and all the other potential customers should just accept it...  :doh: ::) :-[

[/TIC mode]  ;)

Sorry JB but many of your postings in this thread do come across as rather selfish and demanding... It is obvious that not every option can be covered in the first production run so you have to go with the majority. I think what has happened is that names are listed for 9 car or 11 car but not both - this makes sense to maximise appeal to modellers making multiple purchases. It's unlikely anyone will buy a 9 car and an 11 car with the same name...


390041 City of Chester
390014 City of Manchester
390030 City of Edinburgh
390031 City of Liverpool
Out of interest, is there a particular reason you chose those specific 4 names (other than because you can't have them as 9-car units??)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on May 14, 2015, 06:34:27 pm
Hi Gang,

JB does have a point if ALL 11 car sets are available but only the 'remaining' 9 cars. This would seem that only the present day option is viable....but indeed , that is not the case. There are sufficient 9 car set numbers available to please most(if not all) and for those that ordered a 9 and 11 cars to run together, the choice of a non existent (now) 9 car set would be limiting in a different way.

So, all things considered, I think Ben and Mike must have assessed the order book and settled on the present choices for ease of management.

For the record, my choice of 390131 does not look good for making the cut, and I may be in a minority of one, but I dis actually want 390033 City of Glasgow to be available, but I understand and accept why it isn't and I will refrain from bleating about it to anyone who cares to listen.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on May 14, 2015, 06:51:20 pm
B****r he's twigged at last...

This project is nothing at all to do with producing a niche product to suit as many modellers as possible... the real aim is to deliberately only make whatever JB doesn't want.

Sorry, presumably fairness is something you're not interested in and you think people should be barred from polling stations if they don't intend to vote for the same party as you  :laughabovepost:

Quote
390041 City of Chester
390014 City of Manchester
390030 City of Edinburgh
390031 City of Liverpool
Out of interest, is there a particular reason you chose those specific 4 names (other than because you can't have them as 9-car units??)

Lived and worked in the first three cities, spent a lot of time in the fourth on family days out as a child.


It is obvious that not every option can be covered

In an open vote? Why on earth not? If only the top 5 / 10 / 15 choices are going to be produced then what reason is there to arbitrarily exclude 65% of the 9-car sets from the vote? And it is arbitrary since there's literally no reason for it, other than someone at Revolution has decided that those who ordered 9-car sets, regardless of how many they ordered, would only be interested in the sets that still exist post-2012 and should therefore only get 21 options to vote for out of a possible 59 permutations. That's not even half of the sets that have existed! Meanwhile those who've ordered 11-car sets get to vote for all 35 of the 11-car fleet (or order it outright in the case of 390103).

Who decided that any set that's been lengthened would be of no interest to anyone in its original 9-car form, which it ran around in for three times as many years? Of course people who've ordered an 11-car set are unlikely to vote for the same set in its 9-car form, but that's not a reason to prevent those who've ordered 9-car sets from voting for the 9-car sets. I really don't follow your logic there. How can you know the 38 missing sets don't interest anyone if they're not included in the vote? I'm not after a solution that suits only me, I'm after a fair vote, not one that's rigged based on the assumption that only the sets that currently still exist will be of interest. Clearly little thought was put into how the vote was to be set up.

I'm fully conscious that not everyone will get the outcome they want, that's the nature of a vote and I thought my post was pretty clear that I didn't expect my particular unit of choice to win it, hence having three backup options. But if from the outset you're going to prevent people from actually voting for the units they want then what's the point of letting the people decide? Just pick a random 10 units out of the hat and tell people that's their lot, instead of misleading them into thinking that by committing to pre-order they'll get a say in voting for the unit they want. All they get to vote for for is the selection of units that Revolution Trains have decided to include in the vote.

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on May 14, 2015, 07:03:49 pm
Sorry, presumably fairness is something you're not interested in and you think people should be barred from polling stations if they don't intend to vote for the same party as you.
That is a rather twisted view...

In an Election you have the option to vote for any of the options on the ballot paper... What you can't do is vote for someone standing in a different constituency... (and you would not expect the same individual to stand as a candidate in more than one constituency in the same election)

City of Manchester is in the 11 Car constituency so not standing (this time) in 9 Car... In the next poll (i.e. when ever the next batch is produced) City of Manchester may well be in the 9 Car ballot paper...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: NTrain on May 14, 2015, 07:10:10 pm
It is a rather Revolutionary idea to give us a choice in the first place...................................
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on May 14, 2015, 07:17:06 pm
Hello Jive Bunny,

It isn't perfect, and I am sorry if you feel in some way hoodwinked, though we have never guaranteed that any particular set will be produced - bar 390103 - and even now we don't know which will make the final cut.

We took the decision we did to avoid the possibility of "duplicating" models - ie the possibility that *both* the 390/0 and 390/1 versions were selected of a particular set.

This was for practical, not arbitraty reasons:

1)  Made it much easier for our website to handle
2)  (Much more importantly) Minimised the chances of errors in China which could lead to, say, 150 11-car models numbered in the 390/0 series being delivered and 100 9-car models numbered 390/1.  So we could swap the power cars over (a pain in itself) but what do we do about the 50 people with wrongly numbered models?  Renumber them ourselves?  Reject the entire batch back to China??

The fact is that there is always the possibility of accuracy being lost in translation when dealing with the Far East.  Our decision is intended to minimise the risk of that happening.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on May 14, 2015, 07:35:28 pm

That is a rather twisted view...

In an Election you have the option to vote for any of the options on the ballot paper... What you can't do is vote for someone standing in a different constituency... (and you would not expect the same individual to stand as a candidate in more than one constituency in the same election)

City of Manchester is in the 11 Car constituency so not standing (this time) in 9 Car... In the next poll (i.e. when ever the next batch is produced) City of Manchester may well be in the 9 Car ballot paper...

They're all in the Class 390 constituency, it's just that a whole bunch of them have been missed off the ballot papers because the people issuing the ballot papers didn't want them being voted for.

JB

Hello Jive Bunny,

It isn't perfect, and I am sorry if you feel in some way hoodwinked, though we have never guaranteed that any particular set will be produced - bar 390103 - and even now we don't know which will make the final cut.

We took the decision we did to avoid the possibility of "duplicating" models - ie the possibility that *both* the 390/0 and 390/1 versions were selected of a particular set.

This was for practical, not arbitraty reasons:

1)  Made it much easier for our website to handle
2)  (Much more importantly) Minimised the chances of errors in China which could lead to, say, 150 11-car models numbered in the 390/0 series being delivered and 100 9-car models numbered 390/1.  So we could swap the power cars over (a pain in itself) but what do we do about the 50 people with wrongly numbered models?  Renumber them ourselves?  Reject the entire batch back to China??

The fact is that there is always the possibility of accuracy being lost in translation when dealing with the Far East.  Our decision is intended to minimise the risk of that happening.

cheers

Ben A.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm aware there's never been any guarantee of any particular unit being made, however we were told we would get to vote for the units we wanted and that is simply not possible for many of us since most of the 9-car fleet has been left out of the voting process. It would have been nice for the restrictions to have been stated at the start rather than once orders had been placed.

I suspect if the manufacturer failed to supply you with what you had ordered then you would send the order back rather than accept it and try to fix it, but that's not my area. I've sent Mike an e-mail asking to cancel my pre-order and refund the payment, since it was placed in good faith on the reasonable assumption that the public vote would include all of the units rather than a select few, many of which have particularly uninspiring names in the case of the 9-car sets.

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on May 14, 2015, 07:45:52 pm
Jive,

Ok I can partially understand your disappointment, I am sure you are not the only one who would have liked a 9 car City of Manchester, but there are other sets that are still 9 cars carrying the same names from before the introduction of the extra 2 cars to make 11 car sets.

I have to defend Ben and Mike from the outset their aim was to produce the Pendolino in N gauge start and end of it, all whilst trying to encompass us all at the same time by giving us as much of a say as reasonably practical. Isn't wanting your ordered cancelled and money back a bit of a over reaction? Like YOU say the chances of you getting the exact numbers you wanted were not 100% but what is 100% is you will get a Pendolino which the guys have worked bloody hard to get to this stage.

I am sorry mate but you seem to want everyone to bend over to give you exactly what you want which unless you are ordering a CJM loco and going to pay the 500 pound for the privilege is just not feasible or realistic.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on May 14, 2015, 07:50:37 pm
Jive Bummy ... I'm sure Mike and Ben can now give a big sigh of relief!! kind of like a kid throwing toys out of the pram when they didnt get their own way?  i seem to remember one of your earlier rants saying these were being purchased to sell on? If so why worry about the numbering?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on May 14, 2015, 08:09:20 pm
Didn't we do this on the other forum? Someone with unrealstic expectations getting their knickers in a twist and having a sulk because they're not getting their way?!

How can someone be having a strop about not getting the exact set they want. You're getting a Pendolino for god's sake. Well you're not Jivebunny, you're asking for a refund because you can't have the exact one you want. Your loss.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on May 14, 2015, 08:17:37 pm
Hi Gang,

Using JBs mentality, I may have to get on to Farish to ask why they produced 57309 when I wanted 57311 and why 37409 when I wanted 37402. What kind of response do you think I'll get??

One of my Pendolinos is bought to sell on, perhaps at a profit.....am I a demon for doing this???

Maybe as JB has rescinded his order, he will buy mine at a vastly inflated price in the future!!!

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on May 14, 2015, 08:23:17 pm
Only if you rename and renumber it first!!!  :worried:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Newportnobby on May 14, 2015, 08:49:26 pm
Hi Gang,

Using JBs mentality, I may have to get on to Farish to ask why they produced 57309 when I wanted 57311 and why 37409 when I wanted 37402. What kind of response do you think I'll get??

Later,
Stu from EGDL.

Stu - that 'mentality' only works if you had been offered the chance to vote for what numbers the locos should carry - and you were never given that choice. Sorry, but you're on thin ground with that one.
This from someone who's just happy to be getting a Poppylino - full stop :P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on May 14, 2015, 08:54:26 pm
A lot of you seem to be completely missing the point of my posts... The problem is not that I may or may not get one of the four sets I'd be happy to accept, that's a given with such a vote. The problem is that I'm not actually allowed to vote for them in the first place as it's already been decided that we don't want them. As far as I'm aware Farish and the other manufacturers don't have a policy of refusing to produce items that are no longer to be seen on the national rail network. I see plenty of steamers in their catalogues, and plenty of locos and units in green, blue, blue and grey and a whole host of other liveries that don't exist in 2015. Not the case for the Pendolino. Your unit doesn't exist in 2015? Tough luck for you.

What I'm asking for, i.e. the chance for everyone to vote for the unit they want, doesn't seem particularly excessive when you consider it's simply what we were told we'd get. Those who ordered 11-car units have been offered exactly that, yet nobody's claiming that what they've obtained is excessive and I don't see them being accused of being spoilt and having things their way. Interesting. Looks like trolling to me.

When we were told we'd get to vote for our units of choice I don't think those of us who bought 9-car units were expecting to be given a partial list of units that had been pre-selected for us, with the "opportunity" to vote for a set we don't particularly want if our particular choice was among the 38 that had been taken out of the vote. I'm not asking for anyone to accommodate my apparently unreasonable demands, just asking for everyone to get the vote that was offered rather than just those who ordered the more expensive sets. I think it would have been best for Revolution Trains to stick to their word and offer a proper vote instead of deciding on our behalf that we'd only be interested in a third of all of the sets that have existed. Putting arguments forward to get the orders in and then going back on what was offered isn't exactly going to push this model of funding to the forefront of the hobby, is it?

Only Me, if I was looking to sell it on then as you say, why would I be bothered about the number? I'd just vote for 390001 and wait for a collector to snap it up at double the price I paid for it. The post you're referring to dates back a couple of months and I was unhappy because Revolution Trains had, after signing up with Rapido, abandoned the idea of that exclusive, never-to-be-repeated first run, which was to feature set numbers voted for only by those who had supported the Kickstarter campaign. Not only was that vote opened up to anyone who placed an order, but it was also confirmed that the initial run would no longer be exclusive and was open to be repeated. Those like me who were intending, as Ben and Mike had suggested themselves, to buy extra sets in order to fund their own purchase by selling them on, suddenly saw that plan go out of the window since the sets were no longer exclusive and would therefore command far less profit, potentially even having to be sold on at a loss if it turned out the market for them was saturated.

Anyway I'll duck out, clearly this thread's only for those who ordered 11-car sets or who happen to want one of the remaining 21 sets on the 9-car list.

JB
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on May 14, 2015, 08:59:53 pm
Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Here are your toys too, stick 'em back in your pram.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PaulCheffus on May 14, 2015, 09:07:45 pm
Hi

Who'd want to be a manufacturer? Even when they try to please by offering choices it's still not good enough.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on May 14, 2015, 09:13:55 pm
Mad isn't it?! Ben and Mike have done a truly stellar job releasing something so many of us are excited about, and it's still not enough for some!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on May 14, 2015, 09:25:07 pm
Hi Gang,

Using JBs mentality, I may have to get on to Farish to ask why they produced 57309 when I wanted 57311 and why 37409 when I wanted 37402. What kind of response do you think I'll get??

Later,
Stu from EGDL.

Stu - that 'mentality' only works if you had been offered the chance to vote for what numbers the locos should carry - and you were never given that choice. Sorry, but you're on thin ground with that one.
This from someone who's just happy to be getting a Poppylino - full sop :P

But dear Nobby,

I bought from the options available from the Farish stable and am only attempting to do the same from the Revolution stable too.

Ultimately, the choice will come down to 10 available options and I will have to 'suck it' on at least one of them. My point is that democracy is at work here where it isn't really in the Farish realm.

I think this is getting too deep now and taking too much of my time, so I'm going to butt out of the conversation now...

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on May 14, 2015, 09:30:03 pm
I only went for  five car set to up numbers as this is a super idea...which will never be run on my own layout... I have no idea if i was even allowed to vote but dont care what its called as long as it runs well and the horn works :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on May 14, 2015, 09:35:49 pm
As a none backer of this I do feel that JB is being bullied here, for stepping out of line.

He is raising a point about voting on the number not on get his desired number. It may be that for future votes an alternative approach could be taken based on the experiences learned on this one but that want happen if everyone is defensive and rude towards any criticism.

I would suggest next time all numbers are voted on and where a conflict appears like this the matching number with the most votes wins.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Agrippa on May 14, 2015, 09:42:10 pm
Thread developing into another toytown punchup...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on May 14, 2015, 09:45:29 pm
Hello JB,

If we had offered all liveries as both 390/0 and 390/1 variants, and the numbers you wanted hadn't attracted enough votes and therefore were not produced, would you have wanted to cancel your order then?

In other words, were you always determined to *only* have the specific numbersets you wanted, or are you just disgruntled at not being able to vote for every combination?

My feeling is that your response is a little disproportionate.  I understand your disappointment that your choice isn't available but cancelling everything?

If you wish to cancel then so be it, but i think you may rue that decision when the models actually appear.

Cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on May 14, 2015, 10:10:31 pm
I'm away from my main computer at the moment, but I will process JB's refunds when I can either later tonight (or more likely tomorrow morning).

I think part of the tetchiness about JB's point is that we have already done exactly the same argument on the other place.

For those who didn't see that: we explained why we made the choices we did ie practicality and pragmatism, not from any attempt to disenfranchise anyone.  The accusation that we lured people in under false pretenses is more than a little unfair as it pre-supposes we had already decided how to hold the vote (we hadn't).

The reality is that we didn't want a confusing vote with multiple options for the same sets (in 8, 9 and 11 car formations as well as livery and name changes). When you start to think of all the permuations they soon mount up (easily 100+).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on May 14, 2015, 10:18:26 pm
Clearly he has been stripped of his basic human rights!
not allowing everyone to vote on all of the numbers, just to really dilute the voting and make it super difficult for revolution to be fair. you've made it too obvious that this was not a democracy!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on May 14, 2015, 10:19:46 pm
Ok,

Stepping away from the well what has in some respect a bit of a beating for Jive (I am not innocent either  :-[ ), I can see his point  as he would like some of the 11 car units in their 9 car guise.
The issue with that been and I am sure Jive will understand this when you look at that if you were to offer that then you would have to offer all of them which on a quick totting up would mean there were up to 100 + different options to fit in the space for 9 different sets, which would make things extremely complicated and well would make the whole scheme of things extremely complicated.

As such Ben and Mike have had to find a way to make things as uncomplicated as possible, and as I understand the 11 car sets have seen the highest demand (Ben and Mike can correct me if I am wrong) so the best option would be for them to use the current set numbers which sadly for Jive means the set numbers he would have wanted   are sadly not an option.

But I would say there is still a good selection there for Jive to pick from, this I think has made his reaction a bit extreme. At the end of the day if you look at the bigger picture you get what at the core of it you still get a Pendolino, an added bonus would be to get an exact set number you wanted, which don't get me wrong would be great if everyone could but financially is a non starter.

Personally Jive I hope you don't cancel your order and take solace in the fact you will have a model that less than a year ago was a pipe dream and part of peoples wish lists, but if you do cancel then that's your choice and there is nothing anyone can do about it
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: GroupC on May 14, 2015, 10:41:21 pm
IT'S ONLY A MODEL TRAIN.

For goodness sake can everyone calm down, there are some of use with REAL issues in life.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on May 14, 2015, 11:30:04 pm
Anyway I'll duck out
Yes that probably for the best...

Whether it is a true reflection or not of your intent, every time you post in this thread you only dig deeper the hole you are in and give the impression of being ever more self-centred and oblivious to the bigger picture...
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: alibuchan on May 14, 2015, 11:35:10 pm
I can understand JB's annoyance with the system. But like it has been noted with 100 + choices it was bound to upset some people. If Ben and Mike had just gone ahead and chosen 5 names for the 9's and 4 + poppy for the 11s, would this still of happened. Probably not! Because you just don't get the choice, you get what you get. Anyway the numbers will be so small on them see if you can get a Manchester or whatever namplates and stick them on. Nobody would know the difference anyway when you drive it by at speed :D

At the end of the day of my 3 x 11 coach pendo's I've ordered, poppylino is one, I don't really care on my other 1 and my mate doesn't really care about his either, fair enough he's said would be nice for city of B'ham or Cov. But the main thing for us is to have some Pendolinos on the layout.

Alistair
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on May 15, 2015, 09:03:02 am
I'm sure someone could change the name and number if your that bothered and as Alibuchan said when it's on the layout and running at its normal speed could you see the number anyway ,NOW if like me you wanted the Poppylino and payed up front then they said you can't have that we are not doing it I probably might cancel my order as it wouldn't be as easy to change I would have to pay an expert to change it so more costs.
At least this time you've got a choice ,with Farish or Dapol you don't .
I think Mike and Ben have done a fantastic job in actualy giving us the chance to get a Pendolino when the big boys wouldn't even think of doing one in N Gauge.
Well done to you both.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on May 15, 2015, 09:10:21 am
Anyway I'll duck out
Yes that probably for the best...

Whether it is a true reflection or not of your intent, every time you post in this thread you only dig deeper the hole you are in and give the impression of being ever more self-centred and oblivious to the bigger picture...

BULLY your allowed your opinion but he is not allowed his.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on May 15, 2015, 09:17:44 am
That's enough of the petty name-calling and personal criticism from BOTH sides thank you  >:(

Play nicely please or just don't reply to the thread at all.


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jivebunny on May 15, 2015, 12:10:08 pm
Refund received, thanks. For the sake of clarity Ben, no I wouldn't have requested a refund if my four favourites didn't happen to make it through, I would have accepted that my choices clearly weren't popular ones and selected a next best option. What I take issue with is feeling tricked into pre-ordering a 9-car Pendolino on the basis I'd be able to vote for the unit that I wanted, when in fact what's ended up happening is that only those juicy customers who ordered the 11-car version are actually getting to vote for the set they want. The rest get to vote on a small selection of sets that RT have decided we are allowed to vote for. Those who've ordered a whole fleet of 9-car sets for themselves must be a bit peeved at not getting an actual say in which units they want produced and only getting to select from what's been put up for the vote.

For a fair vote there should have been 59 options for the 9-car sets (unless I've missed any name / number variations). 58 if you take out 390033. Add the 35 longer sets and that's 93 voting options in total. As of last night, 78% of the available options had less than 5 votes and would therefore be deemed not popular enough to produce. That leaves only 12 units with a credible chance of making it to production. We can assume that if all 93 options had been available there would have been a similar bias towards a select few popular units, so really it would have done no harm to have a fair vote and include everything. The results would have been a little bit more spread out, but ultimately you'd still have a top ten and everyone would have been able to vote for the unit that they actually wanted.

I'm curious to see whether we'll see five of each configuration selected for production or if it'll just be the top ten of the entire vote. Going on the results as of last night, if it's the top five of each type then one of the 9-car sets with three votes will actually make it through, while the 11-car 390131 City of Liverpool will be discarded despite having double the number of votes. If it's based purely on the top ten, then the 9-car lot will only get three sets to choose from (390001, 005, 006) while the 11-car lot will get seven. Time will tell, but I suspect those who ordered 9-car sets won't be too happy if the votes for the 11-car sets carry more weight and leave them with only three sets to choose from, one of which is a first-of-series.

Funny that I'm being called self-centred and selfish by a select few who've obviously been able to vote for the units they wanted and who therefore rather selfishly believe others shouldn't be able to vote for the units that THEY want. No doubt the 48 of you who are keen to get 390001 or 390104 would have been perfectly happy if it had been decided they shouldn't be included in the vote because they were too cliché for anyone to possibly want them?

 ::)  ;)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on May 15, 2015, 12:26:41 pm
Glad you got your refund JB and thanks for your explanation.

Please can we now move on from this debate,  :pleasesign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: PLD on May 15, 2015, 12:55:17 pm
Anyway I'll duck out
Yes that probably for the best...

Whether it is a true reflection or not of your intent, every time you post in this thread you only dig deeper the hole you are in and give the impression of being ever more self-centred and oblivious to the bigger picture...

BULLY your allowed your opinion but he is not allowed his.
Sorry Richard but NO I won't accept that.

I'm not the one continuing to accuse Ben and Mike of underhand dealings or misleading anyone, despite a clear and concise explanation from them of why the options are what they are.

I have no direct opinion - I haven't ordered one so it doesn't affect me - but I can see that JB's opinion is unreasonable and unfair to Ben and Mike, and by simply reading through the thread can see the evidence that this is not the first instance of similar accusations of unfairness from the same individual.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Tank on May 15, 2015, 12:57:35 pm
Enough on the whole issue regarding JB please.  We all have opinions on the issue and points have been made.  Subsequent posts about the issue will be deleted from now on.

KEEP ON THE MAIN TOPIC OF THE THREAD NOW PLEASE. :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on May 15, 2015, 01:55:30 pm
JB

I'm sorry that you continue to insist that you were mislead. I really think that you are being more than a little unfair - whilst you could accuse us of not having worked out the mechanics of the vote (fair cop), I don't think that we have mislead anyone. You appear to have made a point of principle something that you assumed and we had never set in stone. You imply that we are favouring the 11-car set "juicy customers" - it makes absolutely no difference to us if someone orders 9 or 11 car sets.

Your numbers ignore the fact that the 9-car sets were originally 8 and various re-names and liveries, but that is beside the point.  The point being that 93 or 100+ we felt that the vote would have been even more unwieldy than it already is and furthermore much more likely to end up with a fragmented vote with no clear "winners".

We genuinely thought that participating in the set choices would add an extra level of interest for customers, but that people would understand we would ultimately have to make pragmatic decisions. 

For sake of clarity on your question about the set splits. Again we will have to take a pragmatic view ie look at the split of sales when the vote closes (when I last looked it was approx. 60:40 in favour of 11 to 9 car sets but biased by 390103). So it will likely end up with either 5 of each type or a 6:4 split.

I hope that clarifies your points and puts this issue to bed.

Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on May 16, 2015, 04:14:58 pm

Hello all,

Everyone is entitled to their view of course, but I feel a little glum about the whole choice thing.

It was just meant to add a bit of fun - a way of making our supporters feel more a part of a community and something else to differentiate the crowd funding approach from what has gone before.

We added a few provisos that helped us manage the thing and to mitigate against possible problems further down the line as we have explained.

Should we have made this clear from the outset?  Well, ideally perhaps but it was only awhen we came to look closely at the practicalities of managing the vote that realised some limitations were advisable. We certainly hadn't thought it all through beforehand. 

Even a choice of 10 units represents more than most (any?) other manufactures have offered.

To cancel for these reasons seems a little perverse to me, but that is just my opinion and I accept that others may feel differently.

Anyway, we should soon be receiving first CAD drawings which we will publicise on our website and hopefully that will reinvigorate us all and draw a line under this sorry episode. 

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on May 16, 2015, 04:56:05 pm
Guys,

Don't be glum, you've made a lot of sad, lonely, old men very happy.  :D :D :D

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on May 16, 2015, 05:02:59 pm
Don't be glum, you've made a lot of sad, lonely, old men very happy.  :D :D :D

Sad, lonely I can like with but old come on thats a little harsh!!! :P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pengi on May 16, 2015, 06:13:24 pm
Well I am very happy to have a poppy Pendolino and a five car Pendolino on order - had given up hope that the Pendolino would ever come to N . . .

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on May 16, 2015, 06:49:02 pm
Ben, don't focus on the one negative, what you should be looking at is how many happy customers you have that have ordered and voted, and like Pengi, me, and the rest are eagerly awaiting a superb model of an iconic train :)


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: REGP on May 16, 2015, 07:03:09 pm
Ben

Don't fret, I don't care what number I get, I just want a Pendo!

Ray
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on May 16, 2015, 07:10:14 pm
Ha lol, i cannot see Ben being too phased about it, you cannot please everyone!!

I was out today with him and he had a new toy to play with and a tram system on Horseley Fields, three buses and a green 31.... No Pendolino in sight (yet!!)

A smooth runner!!

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: njee20 on May 16, 2015, 10:57:56 pm
Ben

Don't fret, I don't care what number I get, I just want a Pendo!

Ray

This. Clearly a few hundred people agree, don't let the very small minority get you down! You can send me a model of 390842 and call it "Town of Watford" if you want, I'll still run it!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on May 16, 2015, 11:02:20 pm
Watford? City? come on thats just silly  :P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on May 16, 2015, 11:54:28 pm
Well done mike and Ben, the vast majority eagerly await the Pendo.
regards  Derek
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: MalcolmInN on May 17, 2015, 12:37:53 am
Guys,

Don't be glum, you've made a lot of sad, lonely, old men very happy.  :D :D :D

John P
:laugh:
old ? men, nah,
pssst, wotsa pendolino ? cant see no chimney nor boiler ??

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on May 17, 2015, 03:58:35 am
It is very unfortunate for this recent issue to make you guys downhearted. Not only have you achieved something significant with the Kickstarter and got this iconic train into manufacture, but you have created the new business of helping get models made when they would not otherwise.

The idea of letting us choose from a selection of numbering options is, in itself, revolutionary. I completely understand that you could not have worked out the details in advance, and the reasons you have given for the limitations of the vote make complete sense.

A storm in a tea cup was created from one individual's dissatisfaction. The refund was made and, hopefully, the rest of us can get on with awaiting the outcome of the vote... Not quite as gripping as the Kickstarter, but still jolly good fun.

Please continue with working out how this kind of community involvement will work, and I am confident that the vast majority will go with it, grateful for the time and effort it must be taking to drive this initiative.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: pape_timmo on May 17, 2015, 09:07:44 am
Mike and Ben, you're doing a fantastic job with the Pendo and also the TEAs. Huge work for both of you, I know, and it is hugely appreciated be the vast majority of us.

All the best, Timmo
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on May 17, 2015, 09:48:46 am

Morning all,

Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.

Yesterday was a long day and we had some electrical problems with our layout (track expansion in a hot hall - the old, old story) which I think had made me tetchy!

Looking forward to seeing the first Pendo CAD images shortly, which we will share.

cheers

Ben A,

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Roy L S on May 17, 2015, 10:56:52 am
Mike and Ben, you're doing a fantastic job with the Pendo and also the TEAs. Huge work for both of you, I know, and it is hugely appreciated be the vast majority of us.

All the best, Timmo

I have to agree with what the majority have said here. Ben and Mike's approach has been just about as inclusive as it could possibly be. It is an incredible opportunity for those who wanted a Pendolino and the two of them should be applauded because there would have been pretty much zero chance to get one RTR any other way, and certainly not with any opportunity to choose the names/numbers.

And don't forget with the Tank wagon on the way this could just be the start, but neither Ben or Mike have to do any of this, it takes up their personal time which I am sure is as precious to them as it is to the rest of us - they have "day jobs" too.

I will sit patiently and wait for RevolutioN's first steam/transition prototype (whatever it may be - loco, wagon, coach or accessory) but I don't have a right to demand anything and won't complain if other more modern prototypes are more of a priority, I will just appreciate them for what I am sure they will be, fine and popular models.

Roy

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Wave on May 17, 2015, 11:38:27 am
Mike and Ben, you're doing a fantastic job with the Pendo and also the TEAs. Huge work for both of you, I know, and it is hugely appreciated be the vast majority of us.

All the best, Timmo

I have to agree with the words above. I really don't mind what Pendo I end up with in the end. Giving my vote on running numbers was just part of the fun of playing a small part in such a fantastic project.

Mike & Ben's efforts need to now be matched by me to actually build something for it to run on !

Keep up the great work. It's really appreciated guys.

Cheers - Wave
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on May 27, 2015, 11:47:54 am
Just a quick reminder that the deadline for voting on the name/number of your choice ends on Sunday 31 May so please get your vote in by then!

If you ordered via Rapido then please register for an account on our website and drop me an email so that I can give you the necessary access (please note I will be running an exhibition from first thing on Friday to end of Sunday so please try not to leave it to the last minute!).

Current voting:

1 390104 Alstom Pendolino (special Alstom livery) (28 votes)
2= 390001 Virgin Pioneer (26 votes)
2= 390045 101 Squadron
4= 390114 City of Manchester (13 votes)
4= 390122 Penny the Pendolino
6 390005 City of Wolverhampton (11 votes)
7 390132 City of Birmingham (10 votes)
8= 390138 City of London (9 votes)
8= 390151 Virgin Ambassador (special "Business is great" livery)

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: davidinyork on May 27, 2015, 02:08:34 pm
Mike and Ben, you're doing a fantastic job with the Pendo and also the TEAs. Huge work for both of you, I know, and it is hugely appreciated be the vast majority of us.

All the best, Timmo

I have to agree with what the majority have said here. Ben and Mike's approach has been just about as inclusive as it could possibly be. It is an incredible opportunity for those who wanted a Pendolino and the two of them should be applauded because there would have been pretty much zero chance to get one RTR any other way, and certainly not with any opportunity to choose the names/numbers.

And don't forget with the Tank wagon on the way this could just be the start, but neither Ben or Mike have to do any of this, it takes up their personal time which I am sure is as precious to them as it is to the rest of us - they have "day jobs" too.

I will sit patiently and wait for RevolutioN's first steam/transition prototype (whatever it may be - loco, wagon, coach or accessory) but I don't have a right to demand anything and won't complain if other more modern prototypes are more of a priority, I will just appreciate them for what I am sure they will be, fine and popular models.

Roy

Quite.

I think it's also worth pointing out that the real Pendolinos are all identical (apart from some of them having two more vehicles than the others) so if you want a different one it's only a case of renaming / renumbering it. It's not as if we're talking something like a Class 47 where there are loads of physical differences between different examples of the class.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on May 27, 2015, 02:16:53 pm
Mike,

Could I ask why you have so few votes considering the amount of units provisionally sold?

As someone who only ordered a 5 car sound unit + 2 car accessory pack for the novelty aspect and to up the numbers, who is not worried about rivets etc, do I get a vote and if so what number set should I vote for 9 or 11 ?

Thanks Paul.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on May 27, 2015, 02:23:03 pm

Hi Paul,

We can't force people to vote; I genuinely think the lack of votes is indicative of the general apathy there is around specific set numbers - also explains why un-numbered models seem not to sell.

If you've ordered a 5-car you can vote for anything.  Fulfilling a five car order should simply be a question of adding appropriate additional cars to the run of any given livery.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on May 27, 2015, 03:17:02 pm
Hi Paul

I'm pleased with the number of votes we have had - it is a fair proportion of the people who have purchased one.

I think that what has surprised me is the spread of the votes.  Apart from the top 3 there is huge range of votes!

As Ben says we can't force people to vote and some people are genuinely not bothered which set/name they get.

5-car sets - please vote on any.  We will make an informed decision on which set gets produced for the 5-car set.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Vonzack on May 27, 2015, 03:22:36 pm
Hi Paul,

The list alone counts for 145 votes (if I've added up correctly), I would guess the missing numbers are spread out amongst the numbers who aren't making the cut at the moment.

From the graph on the Revolution site, I make it 268 votes in total (again if I've added things up OK).

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on May 27, 2015, 03:29:15 pm
Cheers Vonzack, unfortunately on my iphone the revolution/google voting site doesn't let me scroll to the right and firewalls on my work pc block google fully so it's all a guess from this end :)  !!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: StufromEGDL on May 27, 2015, 03:34:43 pm
Hi Gang,

Looks like City of Edinburgh is not making the cut.
Could be a different City I think!!!

Later,
Stu in LCRA.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on May 27, 2015, 04:14:03 pm
Plus don't forget that anyone who has gone for the Poppy Pendo isn't included.  I can't remember off the top of my head how many that is, but somewhere in the region of at least 100 IIRC.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on May 31, 2015, 08:43:52 am
A question for the non EU purchasers - has anyone been contacted by Rapido or had their deposit taken?
On the 8th April 2015 I had the following response to my inquiry of Rapido Trains

" Hello Trevour: Thanks for your email. We have been "crazy busy" here at Rapido the last few weeks and, as such haven't had the time to deal with the deposits. We will be starting to contcat customers at the end of the month for their deposits. I'm sorry that it has taken a bit of time but I guess being as busy as we have is a "good thing"..... LOL

Best regards,
--
Mike McGrattan
Customer Service

Rapido Trains Inc.
500 Alden Road, Unit 16
Markham, Ontario
L3R 5H5 Canada"

Yes I would like to keep my cash until the Pendolino is ready for despatch but I'm "concerned" about missing out  :(

I have voted on the Revolution website but my choice looks like being like my football team BOTTOM!!!!!!

And again a special thanks to Ben and Mike for extracting money from me  :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Mustermark on May 31, 2015, 12:45:42 pm
I'm not aware that I have been charged yet.
I certainly don't recall being "contcated". Sounds painful and I'm sure I'd know if I had been.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on May 31, 2015, 02:30:45 pm

Hello all,

I will double check with Rapido that they have not invoiced anyone yet.  I am not sure they will have done, so I don't think there is anything to worry about at this time...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on May 31, 2015, 02:43:57 pm
Thanks Mustermark for confirming I am not alone!
Also thanks Ben for offering to take this up with Rapido. As you could see I had inquired of Rapido but from your level we may get a more definitive response.  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Pete @ EGLM on May 31, 2015, 11:34:21 pm
I've tried to vote today but can't remember my password.  The password reminder link doesn't seem to work.

Pete @ EGLM
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on June 01, 2015, 12:54:19 am
Rapids haven't taken my deposit yet either.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on June 01, 2015, 10:06:42 pm
As a kiwi I can also confirm that I haven't been contacted, but the last I heard was that everything was ok with that. They did still have my pre-order in their system :D

I just bought a new(ish) car and am happy to wait a little longer to pay my deposit :D that said, I assume they are already spending money on the project and I don't feel like I've contributed properly yet!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on June 02, 2015, 05:02:57 pm

Hello all,

I have had word from Jason at Rapido that they haven't taken any deposits yet, so no one should worry.

They've had the busiest couple of months they have ever had, and though design is well underway and proceeding in China, at the Canadian end of things actually collecting money has not been a priority.

Once they do start taking deposits I will post a note here to alert overseas customers.

cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on June 02, 2015, 06:27:36 pm
Thank you Ben for this update.  It is much appreciated.   :thankyousign:

Nice to know there is a company for whom "taking the money" is not a priority, rather just getting on with the development and production.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on June 02, 2015, 06:35:15 pm
Typical of Rapido really, my mate has bought numerous Canadian HO models from them including "The Canadian" at around £800 and never has taking payment upfront been a big priority :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on June 18, 2015, 07:15:53 pm


Hello all,

We'd like to thank all those that voted for their preferred Pendolinos.  The majority of our customers did register their votes, so the counting process has taken a little longer than we'd anticipated, but here are the results.  However, there are a couple of caveats which are explained below.

9-car:
390001 Virgin Pioneer
390005 City of Wolverhampton
390006 Tate Liverpool
390045 101 Squadron

11-car:
390104 Alstom Pendolino (Alstom livery)
390114 City of Manchester
390122 Penny the Pendolino
390138 City of London
390151 Virgin Ambassador (Business is Great Britain livery)

Plus, of course, 390103 Virgin Hero (Poppy Pendolino)

We had originally expected to offer 5 9-car and 5-11-car, however not only do we have more orders for 11-car trains, but also the 4-car selections are heavily skewed towards 390001 and 390045, while the 11-car voting was more evently spread out.  This means that the 5th choice 9-car set had far far fewer votes than the 6th choice 11-car set. The split is also complicated by the fact that the Poppy Pendolino could almost be considered a separate item on its own, meaning we could argue the split is more like a 5 for 11 and 4 for 9 car.

There were also a couple of almost-ties, in which case we have tried to select variety (eg offering City of London instead of City of Liverpool, as Tate Liverpool had already made the cut)

As soon as possbile we will update our website to reflect these options, and would ask all our customers over the coming days to go and make their final selections.

I am absolutely certain that our selections will not please everyone, but hopefully they offer a reasonable spread of interesting colour schemes, geographically diverse cities and notable identities.  And, of course, they were selected by our customers, which as far as I am aware is a first for any mass market range of new models.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on June 18, 2015, 08:17:39 pm
Good to see the final selection - and one of my selections made the cut!  :)
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JonHarbour on June 18, 2015, 11:26:57 pm
How does the selection process work for those outside the EU that ordered through Rapido?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on June 19, 2015, 04:59:46 pm
 :hellosign: Ben thanks for the update, I watch with interest although I wait patiently for my Poppy Pendelino.
regards Derek
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Cape Town Trev on June 23, 2015, 06:19:43 pm
Email from Jason at Rapido to all non EU customers I suspect.  We are to be billed in US Dollars by Thursday for our 50% deposit.  Now how many Rands to the US Dollars?  Too many to worry about.  Did I just type that???? :(  It can only get worse.............................

Hopefully CADS soon.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on June 23, 2015, 08:52:20 pm
Now how many Rands to the US Dollars?

$1 = R12.1791 :thumbsup:


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mickster04 on July 03, 2015, 03:19:55 am
Well I've just had a large amount of money taken from my credit card :) I opted to pay the full amount, so that's me on ramen for the next month :D

Also, I went through rapido as I am a kiwi customer, very exited now :D
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: jpendle on July 03, 2015, 03:42:54 pm
I'm in the US and I still haven't been billed.

John P
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JonHarbour on July 04, 2015, 08:56:57 am
They are clearly working through it. I'm in Australia and I saw an authorisation from Rapido go through on Thursday night / Friday morning.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on July 08, 2015, 12:45:59 pm
Here are a few teasers of the full CAD which we hope to release very shortly:

(http://www.revolutiontrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Revolution_Trains_390_DMSO_roof.jpg)
DMSO roof and bodyside

(http://www.revolutiontrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Revolution_Trains_390_653XX_pantograph_well.jpg)
653XX vehicle pantograph well. Note there is not actually a pantograph on these vehicles.

We are very happy with the overall shape and look of the model – the hard work is in making sure all the smaller details are right!

You can see the full news here: http://www.revolutiontrains.com/revolution-pendolino-first-cad-drawings/ (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/revolution-pendolino-first-cad-drawings/)

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on July 08, 2015, 12:49:58 pm
Looking very good Mike!!

Ps can you pm me re October pls need a yay or a nay!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: mika on July 08, 2015, 12:52:52 pm
Wow, that looks stunning.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: red_death on July 08, 2015, 01:07:52 pm
Typically about a minute after I posted these teasers we received huge amounts of CAD - should keep us busy checking things!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on July 08, 2015, 05:11:25 pm
Looking really spot on there guys, things are shaping up really nicely!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: cornish yorkie on July 08, 2015, 11:59:31 pm
Looking good  :greatpicturessign: thanks for the update.
regards Derek.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on July 09, 2015, 01:02:57 am

Hello all,

Here are a few more CADs.  These are from the 698XX - the PTSRMB shop car - and the 699XX Motor Standard with disabled toilet.  The PTSRMB is rendered "opened up" to show the interior in position.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/21/thumb_26943.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26943)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/21/thumb_26944.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26944)

These are the interior mouldings for the standard class - with disabled toilet, standard toilet and shop:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/21/thumb_26945.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26945)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/21/thumb_26947.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26947)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/21/thumb_26946.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26946)

This is the underside of the 699XX MS vehicle - on the prototype the lower skirts are not fully enclosed for their whole length, possibly to allow fitters access to the tanks etc inward of the bogies at each end.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/21/thumb_26948.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=26948)

I am really impressed with the work they have done so far, and look forward to seeing their completed efforts to depict the cab ends - the complex curves in this area will, for me, really define the model.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: JasonBz on July 09, 2015, 01:27:21 am
Though I have never been on a Pendo professionally, I have been on a few as a punter, and they essence of the train really does seem to have been captured, even just in the drawings shown here. ( i know they are a bit more than "drawings really" )
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: pape_timmo on July 09, 2015, 04:27:34 am
Morning folks,

The cad images shown so far are simply AMAZING! If the completed model looks even half as good as this, (which I know it will surpass) we are in for a real treat.

Seriously excellent work there everyone involved.

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Only Me on July 09, 2015, 08:32:45 am
It just goes to show if you have the finances available and you can pay for a service, that all the twaddle other manufacturers state about delays to models and CADS caused by Chinese manufacturers doing this that and the other over production slots etc, could well be called "Vapour Ware" !!!
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on July 09, 2015, 08:40:18 am
Thanks for the update Ben the cads look fantastic I can't wait to see them in the flesh.
This is really going to show what N Gauge is all about and give the other players something to think about ,and prove what can be done in what is only a short time as Only Me said.
I'm sure it will go as good as it's looking at the moment.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Sprintex on July 09, 2015, 10:20:13 am
So far it's all typical of Rapido from what I've seen of other models - truly excellent :thumbsup:

Jason and the team put everything into their models to get them right, the Canadian HO stuff I've seen close up is leagues ahead of Dapol/Bachmann in every way. Jason even learned to speak Mandarin so he could talk one-to-one with the Chinese developers and manufacturers instead of going through interpreters, saves a lot of down time apparently ;)


Paul
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Ben A on July 09, 2015, 11:15:33 pm

Hello all,

Thanks for the kind words. There is still much to do as I've said, but we are happy with where we are at the moment.

Having said that, if you spot any errors or issues please bring them to our attention!  Don't assume we have spotted them!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on July 09, 2015, 11:57:35 pm
Ben, Mike,

From that day in Crewe did the potential for the destination boards on the door been lit up come to anything or to much of a pain?
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Bob Tidbury on July 10, 2015, 09:05:35 am
Now Acko22 I think that's asking a bit too much we will be asking for opening doors next with steps that fold out ,now that would be a challenge.How about moving wind screen wipers in case my shed roof leaks again .
Don't worry Mike and Ben I'm only joking.
Bob
Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: Vonzack on July 10, 2015, 09:21:39 am
Should be possible as the coaches are going to have internal lighting, but whether its feasible is another thing. Placement of a light pipe or LED may be tricky and add to production times / cost.

Of course it will also spark a debate about what the destination board should display  :D

Cheers, Mark.

Title: Re: Pendolino - a new approach
Post by: acko22 on July 10, 2015, 09:37:10 am
Now Bob, I'd never go that far thats just silly.
Just something that was noticed when I was at Crewe with the 2 good gents. I wouldn't say it's impossible but wpuld just need some novel thinking to have it done.

Mark if it was to be done well just keep in prototypical and have it blurred just like in real life of you are more than 10 foot away.

Either way it was just a question, if they do or dont I wont complain I am getting an N gauge pe