who will take on the class 50 now?

[Karhedron]

To be honest, Dapol already have the CADs, what is missing is confidence in spending ~£100K on the tooling.

The simplest solution would be a crowdfunded initiative with someone like RevolutioN getting the up-front cash from customers to pay Dapol to start cutting metal. The advantage of this approach is that it removed the financial uncertainty from Dapol as manufacturers since they know they will not end up out of pocket. The benefit to modelers is that some independent eyes to look over the artwork and deco-samples mean we should avoid some of the decoration clangers that Dapol seem prone to.

Where there is a will, there is a way. Now it remains to be seen if anyone is willing to step forward to run such a crowd-funding exercise and if there is demand for 1000+ models.

[njee20]

I wonder if the popularity of the 50 would, paradoxically, not lend itself to a crowdfunded model.

Thinking about successfully crowdfunded models Revolution (and DJM) have been able to do a more or less complete list of options - five 92s, three Pendos, five(?) variants of TEAs etc, which will cater for 99% of orders, there may be the odd person who wanted a specific model, but meh, what are you going to do. Even with the 321 there are some clear winners in terms of liveries which are sufficient to get it across the line.

Thinking about the 50s there are (and I'm far from an expert)

- original un-refurbished blue
- large logo grey roof
- large logo black roof
- original NSE
- revised NSE
- later NSE
- myriad one offs: GWR green, LMS maroon, engineers 'dutch', railfreight triple grey

I wonder if the risk is that you'd get a lot of orders, but it would be thinly spread, and you'd never reach 'critical mass' to get it across the line.

I would definitely have a late NSE, and would have 50007 in GWR green, but totally as rule 1 purchases. I wouldn't want any of the earlier ones, and as such wasn't planning to buy a Dapol offering from launch. I imagine a lot of people would feel similarly about blue and large logo.

[koyli55002]

I wonder if a crowdfunded undecorated version would float ?
At least those wanting the more obscure liveries could (perhaps) be catered for also.

[austinbob]

I wonder if a crowdfunded undecorated version would float ?
At least those wanting the more obscure liveries could (perhaps) be catered for also.

I doubt it. There can't be many people who want to paint their own locos.

[njee20]

I wonder if a crowdfunded undecorated version would float ?
At least those wanting the more obscure liveries could (perhaps) be catered for also.

I doubt it. There can't be many people who want to paint their own locos.

agreed, and I suspect that actually (with the possible exception of LMS Maroon) the quirky one-offs would actually all be quite popular.

[Karhedron]

Livery variations are much cheaper to accommodate than tooling variations. I believe a few hundred orders can make a livery financially viable (if you look at the exclusive models offered by some shops) whereas tooling changes are rather more involved an expensive.

The Class 50 would need to be offered in original and refurbished conditions. Beyond that, extra livery options would be a bonus, not a hindrance. Granted not every livery would be guaranteed to reach "critical mass" but there are always some modelers who love a particular class enough to get "one of each". Just look at the eyewatering array of liveries that have been slapped on the class 66 and that gets rerun by both Dapol and Farish every couple of years.

As for undecorated models they get suggested fairly regularly but the experience of both RevolutioN and Heljan seems to be that they sell so badly as to be not worth bothering about. Anyone who wants a livery badly enough to apply it themselves is probably going to be willing to also do the extra step of stripping a factory-applied livery to do so.

Quirky one-off liveries also seem to sell disproportionately well. They also provide excellent fodder for shop-specials.

[koyli55002]

I wonder if a crowdfunded undecorated version would float ?
At least those wanting the more obscure liveries could (perhaps) be catered for also.

I doubt it. There can't be many people who want to paint their own locos.

Ah well.
Mindst you, I reckon 50007 "Elgar" would be quite popular ?
That, together perhaps with the large logo livery (as refurbished from Donny works) ought to sell well, I feel.

[Yet_Another]

Thinking about the 50s there are (and I'm far from an expert)

- original un-refurbished blue
- large logo grey roof
- large logo black roof
- original NSE
- revised NSE
- later NSE
- myriad one offs: GWR green, LMS maroon, engineers 'dutch', railfreight triple grey

I wonder if the risk is that you'd get a lot of orders, but it would be thinly spread, and you'd never reach 'critical mass' to get it across the line.

Doesn't that neatly encapsulate why Dapol don't want to do it?

Coupled with Karhedron's comments in the 'Lack of Bargains' discussion, regarding bargains being generated by lack of sales.

[njee20]

This risks becoming a wish list, but I can't imagine 50007 outselling NSE, even if it were popular. I guess Dapol deemed their selection sufficient to cover interest, I'd personally do later NSE rather than original NSE.

[Newportnobby]

I wonder if a crowdfunded undecorated version would float ?
At least those wanting the more obscure liveries could (perhaps) be catered for also.

I doubt it. There can't be many people who want to paint their own locos.

Mind you. I did hear Lee Marvin painted his own wagon

[red_death]

Many liveries is not a problem if you want something you can keep re-running. In fact it is attractive. As we have learned you just have to be careful not to offer too much choice for each run.

The elephant in the room to me is that Farish have already sold X thousand in a variety of liveries (even if it isn't their best model and could do with updating).

Cheers Mike

[njee20]

Can they? Not being facaetious, i didn't realise they were current.

I guess it's always a risk when you retool something which has been around for years. I guess the market is in thirds:

- people who will replace their old models with something better
- people who never bought the old one because it was "wrong"
- people who won't buy because they have a fleet of the old ones they're happy with

So the million dollar question is how big is that third group? I guess a crowdfunding programme gives you the answer!

[bluedepot]

well farish are updating the class 40 and you can still buy old versions of this loco easy enough... same goes for others they have done like class 31. the old farish 31 was better than their 50 as well imo.

look how many preserved class 50s there are - they are really popular locos!

people were prepared to try crowd funding a class 21/29, a class 50 has got to be at least 5 times as popular??? ok I know that was going to use dapol existing designs... anyway point is a class 50 model with modern spec would surely take a lot of orders, and carry on selling well for a few decades if model is designed well...

if I had money and design or marketing skills I'd even try it myself!!  alas I have neither! I would definitely order 2 dcc fitted versions though if the designs and spec looked good.

anyway that's my campaigning over with!!  back to doing work...


Tim

[NeMo]

Can they? Not being facaetious, i didn't realise they were current.

The last Farish Class 50 hasn't been manufactured for a while. 2010 maybe, the BR blue 'Glorious' I think. So any kicking around are pretty old models.

They're alright models, and recognisably Class 50s. But I can't see anyone buying one at full price or expecting it to match the standards of current models. No lights, bogies are wrong, front-end 'face' isn't right either... lots of things to whine about. Anything over £40 and you're being 'done over' in my humble opinion!

On the other hand, tweaking them with some filler and various BHE parts is cheap and fairly straightforward; a fun project for anyone hankering after a 50 and not averse to some etched brass and airbrush modelling!

Cheers, NeMo

[Richard G Dallimore]

I fit in the don't like the Farish 50 and won't a modern one, if we excepted it is there so why replace why did Dapol do a western? Why did Farish redo the 47, 40 & 25 after all how old or poor they are is no reason to redo them. I am a big fan of the 50's, its one of the iconic loco's of the last 50 or so years. Hardly a layout based in the last half century can deny having one like a 47 or 37. Still on mainline ion charters and other workings and probably nearly every heritage line. Can run with mk1 & 2 coaches, parcels, newspapers, goods, nuclear, you name it 50's have probably dragged it.

I would have thought 1000 would be simple on large logo and NSE alone, 1500 to 2000 may be achievable.