GWR Railcars - Colours

BrassMonkey · May 06, 2016, 02:07:17 PM

Hello,

Got myself a BHE Streamlined Railcar from Thornbury last weekend. I have to say a beautifully printed bodyshell. I was initially a bit sceptical with regards to 3D printed products, but I'm happy to hold my hands up on this occasion and say I was wrong.

Anyway back to topic...

Does anyone know which GREAT WESTERN lettering would be the right colour for the early railcars? Was it Yellow on Red or Gold on Red?

Also going to paint using Tamiya fine white primer followed by Railmatch enamels.

Is there much prep involved before painting? Not used to this material!

Thanks,

BM

robert shrives · May 06, 2016, 02:34:23 PM

Hi check out the cleaning thread in the 3D section - essential to clean and if you use anything other than etch primer only use acrylic paint systems. If you can get 100% coverage with an etch primer then it is possible to use enamel paint systems.

Also on here - I am sure some better with IT can do a link, there is a list for car spray can colours that are best match.

Yes the 3D models are much better these days compared to just a few years ago and prices are keen with many being enthusiast based.

regards
Robert

BrassMonkey · May 06, 2016, 03:37:42 PM

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the info.

I'm using the Tamiya fine white which works with Metals so I assume it has etch properties?

BM

robert shrives · May 06, 2016, 03:57:22 PM

Hi
I would not risk it - all that happens is that the enamel hardner reacts and paint remains sticky, no harm seems to be done to the 3D print however.

I used a normal Halfords primer on the class 128 parcel car and then precision rail blue and had to strip back and start again. I used a "rattle" can of single part etch primer from precision with no problems and have worked on several models ex Shapeways.

regards
Robert

Newportnobby · May 06, 2016, 04:18:11 PM

Maybe there are some conversions here........................

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=17538.msg174752#msg174752

BrassMonkey · May 07, 2016, 03:47:31 PM

Thanks for your help with this. Ok. I have gone for the Tamiya whit primer and Railmatch acrylics.

Any ideas on the GREAT WESTERN decals? Would they have been yellow or gold? Fox do both.

Cheers,

BM

Bob Tidbury · May 07, 2016, 11:23:28 PM

I think we need an answer from Karhedron on this I know that number one had the crest on the front and back and the number under the the second big window each end but not one hundred percent sure what colour the lettering was I have no colour photos of the streamlined cars clear enough to decide and as I'm not a rivet counter just put on the transfers I had in my drawer.
So let's hope Karhedron reads this request and can help you.
I have now seen the second test print of the Parcels car this is the razor edge version and Ray has said they should be in stock in three to four weeks time .
I wish Ray had the capital to get the correct transfers for all three kits also get some side frames cast for the bogies of the twinsets and the parcels as you can get away without side frames on the stream lined car .
As I've said before it would have been nice to have done a complete kit including chassis , transfers and side frames but I certaintly couldn't help out financially as I only get my state pension . And that would have caused a divorce if I had used up the small family savings we have.
Bob

Karhedron · May 09, 2016, 11:18:17 AM

Speak my name and I shall appear!

Unfortunately I wish I could bring better news. I have both the standard references on the Railcars and neither of them give explicit livery details of the lettering applied to Railcar 1. The best advice I can give is to follow the lettering guidance for coaching stock in 1933. Railcars seem to have been painted as per contemporary coaching stock so hopefully the lettering would have been consistent too.

On this basis, the lettering should be gold on black (with no red). Red was used for shading on locos as it stood out well against the green livery but not so well against the chocolate of coaching stock where solid black was used instead. If you treat it as a coach rather than a loco, you should do well. Railcar 4 which is now preserved at Swindon has been painted in this way (usual comments apply about accuracy of preservation liveries).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/GWR_Railcar_No4_Swindon_Steam_Railway_Museum.jpg

Sadly I have not been able to find any colour photos of Railcar 1 so I cannot confirm my deduction. The black and white photos suggest that the lettering was gold on solid black but it is hard to tell for certain. Old photographic emulsions were also notoriously insensitive to reds which does not help.

Assuming you are using Fox transfers, I am not sure if there is an exact match. The closest is probably sheet FRH2106/21 which will give the Great western lettering in gold on red/black as well as the crests you need for the front ends. The difficulty will be with the "No1" lettering. This style was only applied to the early streamlined Railcars and has not been done by any transfer manufacturers as far as I can tell.

One possibility is to contact a custom transfer printer to come up with your exact requirements. I have had good custom sheets from Steve at Railtec transfers in the past.

Bob Tidbury · May 09, 2016, 12:39:15 PM

Karhedron I appreciate your help in the research on the Railcars and if you don't know the answer then I'm sure whatever people choose for the lettering it will look OK until someone comes up with concrete evidence to prove them wrong at least there is now a representation of the stream lined Railcars and soon the razor edge Parcels car as well.

BrassMonkey · May 10, 2016, 04:06:19 PM

Thanks for your help with this. Fox don't have the exact transfers. Railtec have got what I think I need but in 4mm scale. I will have a chat with Steve at Railtec and see if he can sort something out in the correct scale.

News to follow...

BM

Karhedron · May 10, 2016, 04:24:56 PM

One thing that springs to mind is the complex lining applied to the early railcars. I would be tempted to ask Steve if he can print panels to fit the Railcar with the lining, numbering and branding applied. If the flat sides could be done as single application panels, then that would just leave the single black/gold lining at waist height and the crests on the ends.

Bob Tidbury · May 10, 2016, 06:16:17 PM

That would be a nice idea don't forget if Steve can do a panel that the BHE Railcar is number one ,we are thinking of doing the next type with the double doors at the end instead of the middle , this would give modellers a choice of numbers.
Bob

Karhedron · May 10, 2016, 09:23:56 PM

Quote from: Bob Tidbury on May 10, 2016, 06:16:17 PMwe are thinking of doing the next type with the double doors at the end instead of the middle , this would give modellers a choice of numbers.
Bob

That would be really handy. The lettering style on the remaining railcars was as per the Farish models (Shirtbutton style) which is a lot easier as some transfers exist.

http://fox-transfers.co.uk/razor-edge-railcar-express-parcels-70617

The later railcars were also more widely dispersed. Number 1 spent most of its days in the Thames valley. Which family do you think you will do as batches 2-4, 5-7, 8-9 + 13-16 and 10-12 were all different in various details?

BrassMonkey · May 10, 2016, 10:57:58 PM

My father said about the "Henley Flyer" that he used to regularly see at Henley on Thames when he was a boy. Wonder if that was a railcar?

Bob Tidbury · May 11, 2016, 09:01:39 AM

BrassMonkey Yes that was a Railcar, when I was a boy we used to travel on it from Twyford to Henley every weekend to visit my Gran and Aunties and Uncles . If I was lucky I used to sit on the drivers knee and work the horn,imagine kids doing that in today's DMUs,of course Mum was allways keeping an eye on me ,
As Karhedron says it was possibly Number one as I was born in 1947 and travelled on that line till I was nearly six so it could have been one of the newer razor edge type towards the end .
Karhedron I don't know what the differences were between batches but we will just bring out a generic version as I don't think the slight differences would notice to the average modeller,unless you can give an idea which batch would be best.
Happy days and memories ,
Bob