Hattons enter n gauge market as manufacturer

Started by NGS-PO, November 19, 2018, 12:11:03 PM

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GWR-Kris

Glad to see this come out in N Scale, definitely putting my name down for one. I hope they get enough interest to warrant the project.

MalcolmInN

#46
I am going to show my ignorance, again ! (quiet in the back row !!)

"to stop the use of double-heading and save on fuel, crews and maintenance." to haul massively heavy/long trains

but 2 Black5s (for example) not only had two sets of big  wheels for traction but also 2x fireboxes and 2x boilers, so how does, did, this work ? Was the boiler larger ? Was the firebox larger, than that of a single Black5 - but that would imply more work for the lonesome fireman to feed.

yours truly,
puzzled of Tonbridge
:)

EDIT later:
so maybe single Black5s were limited in haulage capability by the traction of the 6 driving wheels, not by boiler or firebox capacity ?
ie.it is the x-12-x configuration that is the main deal ?

MalcolmInN

#47
Quote from: Snowwolflair on November 19, 2018, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: MalcolmInN on November 19, 2018, 03:56:00 PM
Oh the temptation ! but I have not got 50+ wagons :(

I suppose they must have run light back to the shed from time-to-time :)
(while I acquire more wagons  ;D )

I got a very very good deal on PECO kit wagons (about £3 a wagon) and a month later I had a very nice coal train. :thumbsup:
I think my few Peco kits were £3+bit but I didnt have the foresight to buy yards of them, , , a few years on they (various wagon kits) are just a bit over £4, sooo, £200 for a loco and £200 for loadsa kits,
all I need then is to clear out my 30ft long attic :)

How does this £199 upfront order system work, is that a fixed price for delivery in 2020 or thereabouts (by which time it will prob. be pocket money :( ) or is that a down payment and lap-of-the-gods for more ?





1936ace

I've never paid any up front deposit with my pre orders at Hatton's. I assume this is the same unless I've misread something

MalcolmInN

Quote from: 1936ace on November 20, 2018, 02:22:17 AM
I've never paid any up front deposit with my pre orders at Hatton's. I assume this is the same unless I've misread something
Ah oh ok I see, we order now at £199 and they bill us at delivery ?

JonHarbour

Having just pre-ordered one, I can confirm no money has changed hands at this stage...  :claphappy:

Also, got the 20% VAT off because I live outside the EU!  :beers:  :claphappy:  :laugh3:
Still planning a layout...

longbow

#51
I assume this will be like any other Hattons pre-order - ie payment details taken but not charged until delivery, and the option to cancel at any time before that.

However as the sale is not invoiced until delivery, those of us in Oz may end up paying 10% GST in the not unlikely event that Hattons start charging it before 2020.

MalcolmInN

Quote from: JonHarbour on November 20, 2018, 02:33:52 AM
Also, got the 20% VAT off because I live outside the EU!  :beers:  :claphappy:  :laugh3:
With a bit of luck and a following wind so will we ! It did occur to me that in these uncertain times they were in hock to circumstance, hence my pocket money bit, but we best not go further down that debate !?

So, I am not sure I will be here in 2020 let alone have the same bank account, perhaps I best write something in my will ? :)

MalcolmInN

Quote from: longbow on November 20, 2018, 02:34:12 AM
I assume this will be like any other Hattons pre-order - ie payment details taken but not charged until delivery, and the option to cancel at any time before that.
Thanks. That is why I asked, I have only bought big items up-front from my local ye oldie model shoppes so am unfamiliar. They are taking on quite a risk then !


daveg

Quote from: JonHarbour on November 20, 2018, 02:33:52 AM
Having just pre-ordered one, I can confirm no money has changed hands at this stage...  :claphappy:

Also, got the 20% VAT off because I live outside the EU!  :beers:  :claphappy:  :laugh3:

Nice one and it easily slides under the GST threshold.

Lucky bug chap!  :)

Dave G

Bealman

Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Chris Morris

Quote from: NinOz on November 19, 2018, 11:00:10 PM
Quote from: Roy L S on November 19, 2018, 08:26:33 PM
I disagree. With traction tyres on some of the driven wheels and adequate traction weight over them it should do fine as long as it picks up off the other six drivers too.
No! Not traction tyres!  I hate traction tyres! :veryangry:

I can't see any problem with traction tyres except sometimes they need replacing if they are mistreated. They are essential to enable plastic bodied steam locos haul a reasonable length train. My least used steam locos are Dapol 9F and Farish Castle because they can't haul anywhere near proper loads over reasonable gradients. My most used steamies are my Dapol Grange and Dapol 28xx because they can.
Working doesn't seem to be the perfect thing for me so I'll continue to play.
Steve Marriott / Ronnie Lane

martyn

#57
MalcolmInN;

Yes, it was he number of driving wheels on one loco that made the difference; only one loco crew, but twice the power available. I'm not sure how the thermodynamics work out, but the boiler and firebox was bigger than a Black 5, or more realistically, 8Fs. ( I think-I haven't checked)-but not twice as big. Hence some economies of scale. Don't forget that when these were designed, the Midland Railway, and that part of the LMS, relied manly on 0-6-0s; think 3F and 4F. So the Garrets were a major upgrade in power available. The 8Fs and Black 5s did not come out until much later than the Garrets.

You need to check the history of the class, but off the top of my head, I think they had problems, at least at the beginning, with overheating bearings-could be wrong on that.

The LNER answer was the P1 2-8-2s which could haul 100 wagon trains-but this in itself caused operating problems on the ECML, and the locos (P1s) were later used well below their optimal loads. The LNER Garret was used on banking duties over Woodhead only-one loco and crew replaced at least two 2-8-0s on that duty.

Google the class and read more...

HTH

martyn

MalcolmInN

#58
Quote from: martyn on November 20, 2018, 09:53:09 AM
Yes, it was he number of driving wheels on one loco that made the difference;

with overheating bearings-could be wrong on that.
Thanks Martyn,

Yes, will do some more googling, I did a bit but it was late last night (well early morning!) when I was pondering :)
I did read a bit about the bearings and you are right, they did,  the company that ordered them from Bayer specified a change from those normally supplied/fitted to something that they already used on their existing fleet (or something that they were familiar with ? ) I didnt register the details cos it wasnt the info I was after at that time !

EDIT later :
"  However the LMS Derby design office insisted on the fitting of their standard axleboxes to the design. These axleboxes were barely adequate for the LMS Class 4F 0-6-0 locomotives, on which they frequently overheated, and were a major weakness on the LMS Garratts. They were also always heavy on coal and maintenance. "
from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Garratt

martyn

#59
OFF TOPIC

Hi Malcolm;

I'm not deeply into the LMS loco history, but as you have implied, I think that they used Midland Railway bearings, which just weren't up to the job. There was apparently some surprise after Grouping that Midland loco designs were adapted against LNWR or even L+Y-the Midland policy was to use relatively small engines and double head as necessary.

Don't forget pathing problems-in theory, one Garrett hauled train could replace two hauled by smaller locos (and possibly one loco and crew instead of up to four?-don't know), hence releasing another train path; but remember my comments on the P1!

A nice loco model, but not for me-though one may appear in due course on James St...

Martyn

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