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Author Topic: The Train Shed Project - Marton Hinmarche  (Read 90280 times)

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Offline Milton Rail

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1890 on: January 20, 2018, 10:23:50 am »
Thanks for the updates Laurence, a great summary of your loco's I have kept the video link along with others when I get back to a non-corporate wifi

Scenery is starting to take shape too, great stuff

Offline Innovationgame

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1891 on: January 20, 2018, 06:52:46 pm »
First thing this morning, I managed to run two of the final four sub-cycles of the operational timetable.  Everything worked like a dream despite the fact that the temperature in the train Shed was down to nearly 10C.  Even dear old Forthampton Grange behaved impeccably, with no noticeable sign of jerkiness and perfect starts from rest.  Of course, then there was our usual Saturday morning foray into Hessel, followed by a visit from a U3A committee member for a discussion and printing of various forms (I have the printer and therefore if anyone needs anything, they put it in the Dropbox for me to print).

This afternoon began with pond duty again.  We had tried to obtain some replacement oxygenating plants during the week but, at this time of year, no one stocks any.  However, we have a small pond at the bottom of the garden and there was a surplus in there, so it was just a question of harvesting some, adding a lead weight and sinking it in the main pond at the front.

After that, it was back to the Train Shed to finish the last two sub-cycles.  However, this time, 9744 needed some encouragement to start from Platform 4 on both runs, so I decided to clean the branch line.  I then tested it, first using 9744 and, later, 6417.  Now, after the cleaning, even with a good wipe down with clean cardboard, 9744 was much worse, stalling or hiccupping at several points along the branch, including in the storage sidings.  So I resorted to several wipes with clean card and, eventually, after several re-tests (it sounds like an MOT) everything returned to normal.  6417 played up a little, but after a couple of return trips, it was also back to normal.  So, it seems that the motto is Ďgive everything a really good polish after cleaningí.

I also had a look at the short section of track under the London Road Bridge.  I have inserted a track pin into the long section of track, close to the joint with the short section in the hope that it will lower it sufficiently to prevent 80119ís repeated hiatuses.  Iíll be able to see if itís made any difference the when I run the operational timetable again. 

On the subject of the operational timetable, I have created a modified version that I really must print off and test.  Itís basically the same as the existing one, except that I have arranged for Dicheat Manorís parcel train to use DOWN Loop 17 instead of DOWN Loop 18.  Down Loop 18 and UP Loop 8 are used by the Milk Train and local goods.  The modification will give me the flexibility to run them both non-stop, simultaneously, from one end of the layout to the other.  But DOWN Loop 17 and UP Loop 7 are used by 46443 with the local passenger train.  However, the parcels train always arrives at the DOWN loops when 46443 is in UP Loop 7, so there is no problem in that respect.  The modification to the timetable (apart from the point settings) is required because, otherwise, 46443 would arrive back at DOWN Loop 17 while the parcels train is still there.  In order to circumvent this, I have moved some of the ĎCí sub-cycles forward so that the parcels train will vacate DOWN Loop 17 before 46443 makes its DOWN run.

But thatís enough of the operational timetable for now.  My last acts in the Train Shed today were to start work on the Shaper Sheet to but up to the London Road Bridge.  This is the end furthest away from the Town.



I measured up the requirements for the Shaper Sheet, cut a section of the correct width and marked it out, ready for cutting to shape (excuse the pun).



So tomorrowís scenic job will be to cut and fit the shaper sheet, ready for scenic refinements.
With kind regards
Laurence

Offline Innovationgame

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1892 on: January 21, 2018, 04:41:33 pm »
First thing this morning, I managed the first three sub-cycles of the next timetable run, including a goods sub-cycle with 6417.  It performed well enough, with a few stutters, but kept going and completed its run.  We managed a walk along the river again before coffee.  After that I had a number of U3A chores to perform, then there was the fire to lay and wood to bring in, etc.  So it was early afternoon before I returned to the Train Shed. 

I ran the next three sub-cycles, including 6417ís return leg.  Again, it ran quite well with a few stutters, but no stopping.  9744 required a nudge to start from Platform 4 on its first run but was OK on the next one.  Forthampton Grange again ran perfectly, so the new cab-to-tender wires seem to have made a difference.  After the running session, I took some pictures.  Hereís 45206 standing at the head of the milk train on the milk loop.



Hereís another view of the two goods trains in their respective loops.



The next is a close up of 64960 at the head of the local goods standing in the goods loop.



Finally, here is an overall view of the local goods and the goods depot.



Then I cut out the Shaper Sheet and fitted it loosely to the bridge.  It took a little bit of fiddling to get it right and I now have to work out how to fix it in place, while leaving the bridge free to be lifted out.



I didnít spend too much time in the Train Shed this afternoon because it began to snow (not in the Train Shed!) and it was generally cold.  I had the heater on, but the temperature started at about 10C and hadnít reached 12C by the time I left.

I have decided that the intermittent problems I have with running are probably down to track alignment.  When I examine it in detail, I can see that there are rail joints that are too wide and others where there is a small angle between the two rail sections.  There is also the small problem of slight level differences and one or two cambers in the hidden loops.  So I have two choices.  The messiest, but cheaper option, is to lift quite a lot of the track and refit or replace it very carefully.  But there is a much more expensive option which follows from reading a number of other threads.

That option is to replace all the Peco track with Kato.  Iím not sure whether I would be able to construct all the concentric loops satisfactorily and I would need to find out about adapting the points to DCC.  I have started a design in SCARM to see if it is feasible, but Iím not sure I could justify the expense.  I am looking at 50 points and, probably, something like 90m of curved and straight track.  That looks like a big budget to me.

With kind regards
Laurence

Offline keithbythe sea

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1893 on: January 21, 2018, 05:11:24 pm »
Hi Laurence pleased to hear that it didn't start snowing in the train shed!

Think carefully about the track change to Kato (as I am sure you will), it sounds like a major investment decision.

Pleased to see that some more scenic areas are being developed and getting into "shape".

Offline dannyboy

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1894 on: January 21, 2018, 07:41:04 pm »

That option is to replace all the Peco track with Kato.

That is one option that could end up being quite expensive, (50 x no. 6 points works out at nearly £1k  :goggleeyes:, although I am sure you would be able to get some sort of discount from Keith at 'Train Trax' if you asked nicely), plus, I do not think Kato Unitrack would be suitable for all your loops. How about a compromise of sorts? Use Unitrack for straights and points, but flexitrack for the loops. That way, you could decide the radii of each loop, not the of various makers of track? Just a thought  ???
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 07:42:13 pm by dannyboy, Reason: spellink arrow »
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.

Offline Black Sheep

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1895 on: January 21, 2018, 08:07:35 pm »
I know I'm quite quick to offer my opinion, but I'm really not keen on Kato track due to it's looks, the high shoulder and needing to raise buildings such as goods sheds and engine sheds to ensure clearance, however I can see the benefits of built in point motors and an easier alignment, I believe flexi sections are available which may make your fiddle yard loops possible.

Whatever you choose I'll look forward to seeing the results.

Offline Train Waiting

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1896 on: January 21, 2018, 08:08:34 pm »
'That option is to replace all the Peco track with Kato.  Iím not sure whether I would be able to construct all the concentric loops satisfactorily and I would need to find out about adapting the points to DCC.  I have started a design in SCARM to see if it is feasible, but Iím not sure I could justify the expense.  I am looking at 50 points and, probably, something like 90m of curved and straight track.  That looks like a big budget to me.'


I know from the careful and well-researched approach which is clear from your posts that you won't rush in, Laurence.  I like both Kato and Peco track and think that both are good.  If you discount the 216mm (8 1/2") radius as too tight, there are five radii, going up in 33mm increments.  There are also two 'funnies' 481mm and 718mm, which match the #4 and #6 points respectively.  33mm is the standard Kato track spacing for the 'six foot'.

If you choose not to use #4 points, and as an exclusively steam layout, this might be a good idea (NPN has undertaken some excellent research which is on the Forum) then you will have to deal with the wider track spacing if you have #6 points as a crossover.  Steve has made some really clever and superbly crafted modifications to #6 points for his 'Capitol Lines' to allow ( I think) for #6 points and 33mm track spacing [help, please. @tutenkhamunsleeping!]   

It might be a good idea to get some 'Unitrack' and undertake some test running.  If it gives the results you particularly want, then, maybe, the price is well worth paying for the years of enjoyment the layout will give you.  The Table-Top Railway (Mark I) was an experiment with Peco track (Setrack and Steamline mixture) and I noted the results.  Mark II returned to Kato 'Unitrack', which had worked well for my US layout, and, having proven it satisfactory for Union Mills locomotives, I chose 'Unitrack' for the proper (improper, more like!) Table-Top Railway (Mark III).  Horses for courses...

With all good wishes.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)


The Table-Top Railway is a train set trying and failing to be a model railway.

I believe that train sets and model railways are fun.

Offline dannyboy

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1897 on: January 21, 2018, 08:17:02 pm »
I believe flexi sections are available which may make your fiddle yard loops possible.


As far as I am aware, 'flexi' Unitrack is still not available, (somebody correct me if I am wrong), but it is quite easy to make your own 'flexible' pieces.
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.

Offline weave

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1898 on: January 21, 2018, 08:20:09 pm »
Hi Laurence,

As a Kato user this will sound odd but I don't think you should change to Kato. Forgetting the expense (if one can, blimey!) but I went down the Kato route soon after starting as I was rubbish at trying to cut flexitrack but mainly because I am really rubbish at electrics.

OK, you have a few problems but you have a wonderful looking layout and it would be such a shame to rip up what you have done. You obviously know what you're doing but just need to re adjust some track and get the levels right.

I'm no expert but in my experience any board level differences would be worse with Unitrack as you don't have any ballast packing option.

That last bit is probably just me but I think you need to think long and hard about such a change. I got very frustrated with everything at the start and so changed but I hadn't done much really. You would have so much more to lose.

There must be a way to repair your problems.

Prob not much help but hope helps a bit.

Cheers weave  :beers:

Offline port perran

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1899 on: January 22, 2018, 02:03:24 pm »
With all the talk of Laurenceís pond.
We always keep an eye out at this time of year and today we have our first frog spawn. Two weeks earlier than last year.
It's you railway so build it as you want and run whatever you like. The only rule is - ENJOY :
My Layouts -
Port Perran:- Trepol Bay:-

Offline newportnobby

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1900 on: January 22, 2018, 03:35:44 pm »

That option is to replace all the Peco track with Kato.

Not only would you probably have to make compromises with the track plan but, as John (Train Waiting) has alluded to, my research into #4 points tells me my Jubilee, Scots and 28xx will traverse them OK but my Black 5s and 9Fs won't. Of course, this is subjective as our locos are hand built but that would tend to push you down the #6 point road.
I am oblivious to the size of your bank account but I'd find it impossible to fund at present.

Offline wookie

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1901 on: January 22, 2018, 05:00:28 pm »
Iím not sure whether I would be able to construct all the concentric loops satisfactorily and I would need to find out about adapting the points to DCC.

The points wouldn't be a problem as you just swap the normal joiners for insulated ones on the Y arms.
HOWEVER Kato points are much bigger than Peco ones, and when you join two up the distance between the tracks is greater than with Peco i.e the two lines are further apart.
The Kato curves use larger radii too, so would take up much more space.
It isn't practical to use Kato for exactly the same track plan/board size as with Peco.
Doing straights with Kato and everything else with Peco isn't practical either as you would have to use loads of special pieces of adaptor track.

Had I known about Kato when I started Wookery I would have used it, and I too have considered changing over from Peco recently after some "issues" but it just couldn't be done. I lifted track and sorted out the problems instead. By and large it all runs okay now.

Offline Innovationgame

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1902 on: January 22, 2018, 08:45:19 pm »
Thanks for all the advice about Kato track.  I shall obviously have to proceed with caution.  The initial approach will be to try and re-lay sections of track to improve things, particularly the DOWN line under London Road Bridge.

First thing this morning, I managed the next four sub-cycles to complete the first full timetable cycle.  There was a reluctance of 9744 to start from Platform 4 on the last two sub-cycles and I had a bit of a disaster with 92006.  When passing through Platform 3 it suddenly stopped, presumably because the island platform had moved when I cleaned the branch.  I released it, but it must have derailed so that when it reached Point 44 at the far end of the station, it came to grief.  Fortunately, I was able to recover it and back it up to retest the platform track.

After the initial session, it was table tennis followed by some shopping.  Then, for most of the afternoon, we had to attend a special U3A committee meeting.  So it was later on the I managed another session in the Train Shed.  I began by making another composite video, this time of sub-cycle 5a. 

First you see 9744 emerge from the branch entrance of Oakwood Tunnel with the branch passenger ĎBí set and then 80119 emerges from Gatsby Tunnel with its six-coach suburban set.  There are various shots of their progress before 6837 ĎForthampton Grangeí rushes out of Oakwood Tunnel with a seven-coach UP intermediate passenger train.  The other two trains make their way into the station, followed by Forthampton Grange.  After a pause, Forthampton Grange departs, followed by 9744.  After Forthampton Grange disappears into Gatsby Tunnel, 80119 departs from Platform 2.  9744 eventually makes its way into the branch entrance of Gatsby Tunnel, followed by 80119 disappearing into Oakwood Tunnel.

 


After that, I ran three more sub-cycles and everything ran perfectly.  I can only assume that 9744 was suffering a bit first thing because it had been a cold night, with the temperature in the Train Shed dropping as low as 8C.

Finally, I had an attempt at fixing the Shaper Sheet into place with staples.



The far end was weighted down with a steel rule for now, but I shall have to decide how I am going to proceed next.
With kind regards
Laurence

Offline lil chris

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1903 on: January 22, 2018, 11:33:52 pm »
Looking good now Laurence, I am sure you can sort the track problems out without having to replace the lot. I found out how hard it can be to lay Peco track myself with my first layout, I made the mistake of using track pins which makes the track uneven. With N-Gauge we are dealing with very small tolerances,that's why like you I now lay using copydex onto cork. I have noticed some of the points can be slightly un-even with regard to running, I have seen a few posts on how to level them out.
Lil Chris
My layout here East Lancashire Lines
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29492.0

Offline Webbo

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Re: The Train Shed Project
« Reply #1904 on: January 23, 2018, 02:44:30 am »
Hi Laurence

If you are having problems with track evenness on a flat layout, the track pins are likely suspects if you are using them. As Chris suggests, a solution is to glue the track down and remove the pins, or another is to drill out the pin holes in the sleepers to the diameter of the pins and then tap the pins down only so far that they are not depressing the sleepers at all. By drilling out the pin holes one minimises pins depressing the sleepers through friction.

Kinks in the track on curves requires either more track pins (till glued down) or soldering the joins.

It strikes me that replacing all your track with Kato is a mighty job that would be expensive as well and one that should be considered as a last resort only.

Good luck with whatever way you decide to go.
Webbo

 

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