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Author Topic: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies  (Read 5080 times)

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Offline maridunian

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2016, 10:34:12 am »
Meanwhile the first of my Chinese motors (10 x 15 flat cans, quantity 20) have arrived by some miracle of international postage.  From initial playing around it looks as though one of these will replace a Poole Farish motor very easily indeed, so my Pannier is now in bits while I make up some simple mounting brackets. Then I can see whether these motors are any better than the price (37 pence each) suggests,

Richard

Really looking forward to seeing/reading about this!

Mike

Offline paulprice

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2016, 11:04:23 am »
I will be very interested to learn more

Offline belstone

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2016, 12:28:17 am »
Well, the Chinese motor is now in the Pannier, and I'm impressed.  Good slow speed control and plenty of poke, I've had it trundling round the test oval with 30 wagons behind it and it maintains a nice steady speed even on the rough bits of track. As a bonus the cab is no longer full of motor which improves the appearance a bit.  I left my camera at work so pictures will have to follow later, but it wasn't difficult to fit.  I don't think it is quite as sweet as a Mashima 1015, but those are 15 and this motor cost 37 pence. 

That's 7s 6d in old money (near enough), so I looked in a 1966 Railway Modeller to see what that would have bought you fifty years ago. Answer - one unpainted Farish wagon or a length of Peco Streamline flexi track. Next step is to put some lead weights in the space the Farish motor used to occupy, fit couplings at both ends and see if I can overload the little beast and burn out the motor.  If it survives that I'll remotor the 4F, with the motor in the tender and a shaft drive to the loco.

Offline MARK1985

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2016, 05:14:51 pm »
Hi

Where was it in china you obtained the motors from or was it via fleabay ?

regards

Mark

Offline belstone

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2016, 06:28:37 pm »
Hi

Where was it in china you obtained the motors from or was it via fleabay ?

regards

Mark


The ones I am playing with at the moment are these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111949144445

I have some 7mm coreless motors on the way from the same seller, which look very similar to the ones that Farish are now using:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111995148610

Once those arrive that will be 36 motors in total that I have bought.  That will probably last me the rest of my life.

Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2016, 02:58:15 pm »
A few photos of the Chinese motor transplant into the Pannier.  Here it is.  The motor is 12mm high by 10mm wide: I mounted it widthways as the chassis will be going into a small-boilered tank loco.  Width isn't a problem, but height is.  Fitted this way the clearance between the flanges and motor casing is tight: I had to grind a small amount off the casing to stop the wheels shorting on tight curves. It has a 1mm shaft, so I sleeved down the Poole worm gear (1.5mm) with a piece of brass tube.



At the back the motor has three threaded holes.  I made up a simple L shaped mount which screws to the smallest of the holes, with a 12BA brass screw soldered to it which goes through what used to be the bottom brush holder.



At the front is a small plastic lug.  I fitted a very small self tapping screw into the chassis, which engages with this lug and holds the motor in place. Final gear meshing was achieved by carefully filing the chassis where the motor rests on it.



Fitting a much smaller motor in place of the old Farish lump allowed some space for lead weight - taking the overall weight of the model from 58 grams to 70.  The weight distribution isn't great, with the centre of balance somewhere between the centre and rear axles.  Going forwards it happily hauled three coaches and 36 wagons (which is all I have right now), but running backwards it slipped to a standstill fairly quickly, and even with half the load it tended to spin its wheels if I fed in too much power.  Slow running is pretty good -no better than the Farish 5-pole, but that was a really nice motor and would be hard to improve on anyway. It's a bit noisy compared to the Farish can motors, but not excessive. It would be interesting to see what it can do given more suitable gearing (I think the Farish gears are around 30:1) and a better controller than the Farish train set item that is all I have at the moment.

Overall I'm happy with it, enough so to think it is worth scratchbuilding a new body (must get the J27 finished first though).

Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2016, 10:59:16 pm »
Another Chinese motor experiment, this time in an old 4F.  This one still needs some work as the driveshaft tends to bind up on sharp curves in reverse. It needs the diameter reducing at the ends. On straight track it is very nice indeed.  Ideally I would have mounted the motor a bit lower, driving the loco in a straight line rather than at an angle, but this was just a "quickie" using the remains of the Farish motor to support the driveshaft. I might have another go, and do it properly this time. Or maybe wait for the coreless motors to arrive from China.



It will be interesting to see how much the haulage power has improved - I have managed to pack enough lead in to take the weight up from 52 grams to 62, and there is still room for a little more.

Richard

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2016, 06:10:50 pm »
FYI, I received some of the coreless motors that you posted link to today (yours must be imminent!). They look to be identical in package to the Farish unit, so potentially a direct replacement.

I've not tested yet, but they do have some slight surface corrosion on the cans, so will be interesting to see if they are lower quality and/or don't perform as well.

Having said that, for the price, they really are throw away level stuff. I'm just not used to that with old Poole Farish where the armature was anything but throw-away in terms of cost.

Will see if I can use one as a replacement for a failed original Farish unit and report back.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline belstone

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2016, 03:26:58 pm »
FYI, I received some of the coreless motors that you posted link to today (yours must be imminent!). They look to be identical in package to the Farish unit, so potentially a direct replacement.

I've not tested yet, but they do have some slight surface corrosion on the cans, so will be interesting to see if they are lower quality and/or don't perform as well.

Having said that, for the price, they really are throw away level stuff. I'm just not used to that with old Poole Farish where the armature was anything but throw-away in terms of cost.

Will see if I can use one as a replacement for a failed original Farish unit and report back.

Cheers,
Alan

Bit ominous that you have had yours and I haven't, seeing as I ordered mine first.  A couple of the 2mm Assoc folk have also got their hands on some, so it shouldn't be long before someone manages to get one installed and reports back.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2016, 04:47:51 pm »
so it shouldn't be long before someone manages to get one installed and reports back.

I've installed one in a Bachmann farish 5MT and the performance seems absolutely fine and performs similarly to the Bachmann motor, but draws even less current - virtually unmeasurable on my meter.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

Offline AJP

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2016, 10:56:18 am »
Hi Belstone, nice job on all counts!, quick question the universal drive in the 4f, are you making those your self or buying ready fabricated ones? and if ready fabricated from whom?

Tony

Offline belstone

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2016, 12:01:32 am »
Hi Belstone, nice job on all counts!, quick question the universal drive in the 4f, are you making those your self or buying ready fabricated ones? and if ready fabricated from whom?

Tony

The plastic bits came off an old American diesel.  I made the shaft by slitting each end of a piece of 1.5mm tube with a razor saw, cross-drilling it 0.7mm and soldering in a piece of brass wire which was snipped to length.  The shaft really needs turning down at the ends as it catches on the plastic bits.

Offline belstone

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2016, 12:39:06 am »
A change of direction this week.  I got carried away and bought four Finetrax turnout kits before deciding to scrap my original layout plan.  It seemed a shame not to use them for something so I came up with the idea of a micro layout 6' x 1' in two sections which will allow me to play about with uncoupling magnets, ballasting and various other things before I start the 'proper' layout.  All I had to do was build the four turnouts, and that just meant following the instructions...

What follows is in no way intended as a criticism of the Finetrax product.  It is a huge step forward for realism in N gauge, and a lot of work has gone into making the things reliable and easy to assemble.  But I cannot resist the temptation to fiddle with any manufactured product, even fine scale ones.  So after about ten hours' work (i.e.at least three times as long as it should have taken to put together three turnouts) I have ended up with this:



This is the station throat complex for my micro layout.  Two reasons why it took so long:

1. I decided to build all three turnouts as a single assembly to reduce the number of rail joins.  That makes things a lot more fiddly than they would normally be.

2.  The Finetrax turnouts as supplied have cast frogs, and I'm not too keen on those.  I fully understand why they have been made that way, but I think rail-built frogs look better.

So I had to strengthen the turnouts with PCB sleepers to support my fabricated frogs and wing rails and keep everything level.  These were made from a sheet of PCB attacked with a Dremel.  They have the advantage of greatly simplifying the wiring, and also stop the rails from moving in the chairs due to heavy-handed track cleaning.  I have thinned down the ends to match the height of the Finetrax sleepers: until I have painted and ballasted the track I won't know whether they look too obviously different from the fully chaired sleepers. The frogs were soldered up using a very simple home made jig.



Here you can see the fabricated frog compared to the Finetrax cast version.  The cast frog turnout was built some time ago and the subject of an experiment to see if I could curve it, so it looks a bit tattier than standard Finetrax turnouts normally do. I'll strengthen it up with a couple of strips of PCB and use it in the fiddle yard.



For this simple little layout I will be using manual point control, old fashioned wire in tube with microswitches for frog polarity.  But I still thought it would be nice to have some kind of blade springing to provide a positive action.  I played about with all sorts of complex mechanisms, before it occurred to me to simply copy the V-shaped spring that Peco use.  Made from 0.3mm piano wire, and I will make up some small plastic ramps (often used on the real railway to protect operating mechanisms) which will hide the spring and hold it in place. I also used a simple soldered PCB tiebar rather than the Finetrax chairplate and pin system - the latter is much nicer in that it doesn't try to flex the blades at the ends, but it has to be fitted before the second stock rail is slid into place, which would make for a very awkward repair job if it failed



I still have one turnout to finish - it was actually the first one I did, but I only put a single PCB sleeper in it which wasn't enough, so it needs reworking to the same standard as the other three.  I have tried various vehicles through my three completed turnouts - anything with NEM standard 7.4mm back to back is fine, but the older wheelsets at 7.2mm don't like the frogs much. I suppose I will have to build some baseboards now.

Richard

Offline Caz

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2016, 04:09:48 pm »
Those points look the dogs, just wish they'd have been around when I started Claywell, if I win the lottery I'd rip it all up and rebuild with them as they look so much better as does the code 40 track.   :thumbsup:

Offline belstone

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Re: Belstone's Scratchbodge Studies
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2017, 09:24:19 am »
With the new layout mostly finished and running I am back onto dismembering and ruining Poole Farish products.  Starting with this little beauty:



A plastic-bodied GP tank from a train set, made in China but using a late-spec Poole design chassis with blackened fine profile wheels and 5 pole motor.  These things run terribly due to the lack of weight, but they are cheap and potentially useful.  Driving wheels are a bit small for most of the 0-6-0 tender locos I actually need, but about right for a North British N15 0-6-2T for which I have a slightly inaccurate drawing from the Railway Modeller circa 1970.



I don't actually need an N15, most of them were used on trip workings around large goods yards, or banking trains out of Glasgow Queen Street.  But never mind that, they were quite pretty little engines and those big side tanks should provide plenty of room for lead weights. I was going to scratchbuild the body, then decided to see if I could use the plastic GP body just for fun, and because I hate throwing anything away.

First stage was to remove the boiler and smokebox.  I shortened the front footplate, cut the front off the chassis to match, then made up a boiler from brass tube, with a smokebox assembly from the 57xx Pannier that I used as the donor for my J27.  I had to grind away some of the magnet and polepieces from the top of the motor to get it to fit, and it's still very tight so I might end up swapping the motor for a small Chinese "can" as I did for the 94xx featured earlier.



I then took a big chunk out of the back of the chassis with the Dremel to clear the trailing truck, which is actually the pony truck off a Minitrix 2MT, fitted with a Farish wagon wheelset with the axle ends filed flat.  I then cut the rear end off the body and made up a cab front and sides from Plastikard. Next job will be to strengthen and box in the cab and bunker, at which point the loco should start looking a bit like an N15, or at least like an 0-6-2T of some description.



Waiting in the wings is my 4F, which now has a better driveshaft and repositioned motor, and runs beautifully at shunting speeds.  I have drawings for a North British J37, and reckon that I can turn the 4F into a passable J37 without too much grief.

Richard

 

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