Wcml consists

[Intercity]

I am still getting my consists and locos etc stockpiled for a west coast based layout, and as many years have passed since I was last in the U.K. Things have become quite hazy, so a few questions regarding prototypical consists are forthcoming.

What were the typical consists for the mk3s, were the three English depots DVT, 3x first, buffet and 5 x standard and the Scottish depot (polmadie) DVT, 2 x first, buffet and 6 standards?

I know the Depots were Wembley, Edge Hill, Longsight, Polmadie and Oxley (does anyone remember the depot codes? WB for Wembley and LO for longsight I think)

Oxley didn't have MK3s for the time I was there, although I know they did go there, was the MK2 consist a DVT, 3 x first, buffet (mk3) and 5x standard?

There seems to be a lot of opinion on makers of carriages, I'm swaying towards Dapol and am not worried if Intercity and Virgin are mixed as I found that to be an interesting period on the WCML, the only thing I noticed was the pic of Dapol intercity seems to have swallow logos on the door windows, I don't recall that in real life though, however I do remember the destination stickers on the door windows which were later moved to the first window inside the passenger area.

Any help on consists and other bits regarding them I may have missed is appreciated
Is there MK3 BFO available, I remember there being 3 of these and usually found in the polmadie sets (17XXX series).

[Newportnobby]

Completely out of my era but that's a very useful link.

[njee20]

Certainly the rakes I remember were DVT, 2 or 3 first, buffet, 5 or 6 standard class. No Dapol BFOs, you could put vinyls on a farish one, but wouldn't blend in well.

Can't remember about Swallows on the droplights, I'm sure some had them. The bigger issue with Dapol Swallow models is the massive inconsistency in colours, particularly the roofs. Be prepared to respray everything you get so that it matches.

[crewearpley40]

to help :

What were the typical consists for the mk3s, were the three English depots DVT, 3x first, buffet and 5 x standard and the Scottish depot Glasgow polmadiie DVT, 2 x first, buffet and 6 standards? Yes, add another TSO if service was peak hour. usually a 10 , 11 coach rake including DVT

I know the Depots were Wembley WB , Edge Hill ( LL ), Longsight ( LO ), Polmadie ( PO ) and Oxley

OY. Liverpool eDGE hILL was only a stabling point

Oxley didn't have MK3s for the time I was there,Euston - Birmingham / Wolverhampton

the MK2 consist a DVT, 3 x first, buffet (mk3) and 5x standard

Is there MK3 BFO available, I remember there being 3 of these and usually found in the polmadie sets (17173, 17174, 17175 the numbers later allocated to Wembley

[crewearpley40]

I remember seeing :

Euston   
6.2.90   
07.25   
Manchester Pullman   
90001   12146   12107   12159   12060   10226   11064   11069   11065   10227
17175   82117


Crewe   
20.3.90   
87007   12090   12146   12107   12060   12180   10226   11084   10227   11110
17174   82135
Liverpool Euston


The BFOs were classified Mark 3B  and were really easy to spot in photos as they were the only Mk3 coach (Royals included) that had the windows out of position on the bodyside.


At the guards end was a compartment with the hydraulic brake equipment and an office. They only had 7 large windows with a wider than usual spacing between the end of the first class seating area and the guards office. This end also had the extra door flap, just like a TGS. Since Virgin and first have had them an extra window has been added

For anyone interested, the original paint dates were:

17173 = 18.11.85

17174 = 25.10.85

17175 = 4.12.85

http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p520092474/h6ae915e#h6ae915e

https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/8951661183/

are two links I found with photos. mine were too blurred as I was being distracted.
source : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72533-mk3-bfo-any-photos/

[crewearpley40]

I believe hurst models may help

http://www.hurstmodels.com/4/4mm_mk3.htm when modelling

[njee20]

Only if you're modelling OO...

[crewearpley40]

anyone have ideas ?

[njee20]

For what, a BFO?

Get the filler out. Be an easy conversion. Or vinyls on a Farish mk3.

[crewearpley40]

can you please recommend a product supplier ?

[westie7]

You need to get a hold of Natalie Jones article on WCML Passenger Train Formations 1986/1987, it is worth reading

As for the BFO. Take a Dapol TGS body, Underframe with buffers, and re-cut out the windows in the guards area

[crewearpley40]

www.classicmagazines.co.uk and you will see at the top of the home page a search box. If you type in that search box WCML it will bring up all the issues that have featured this, I have checked for you and it has brought up 3 pages! So hopefully you will find what you are looking for.

rmweb has a link yahoo.co.uk wcml formations

[crewearpley40]

depends where based - mean you

I have to go out soon, family. im near Aylesbury and no clue how to personal message and don't want to give personal info as can appreciate but im an ex railwayman. I would shop around my friend, check magazine, stockists. I would hunt in the library for books for research like I did

[crewearpley40]

also watch detail differences : eg bogies, roofs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Railways_Mark_2

Any air-braked loco could haul Mk3s but for passenger service you'd need a loco with electric train heating supply to power the air conditioning. However in the blue-grey era loco-hauled Mk3s were only used on West Coast

Mark 2D, the ETH index of the loco must not exceed 66
AD1D FO : 1971 - 1972
AC2D TSO : 1971
AE2D BSO : 1971
AB1D BFK : 1971- 1972 (11 coaches in this batch required at least 800V ETH supply)
The TSO and BSO vehicles were built first and entered service first, some entered public service as early as March 1971

Towards the end of 1971 the FO and BFK vehicles started to be built, and these were only all just completed just a few days from the end of 1972



Farish Mk2 coaches with Dapol Mk3s have issues with roof heights

As we all know, mixing the new Farish Mk2s with Farish Mk1s looks a bit odd thanks to their different heights. But how well (or not) do the Mk2s mix with Dapol Mk3s

The mixed sets were, in 2002, basically Mk2 firsts and seconds with a Mk3 buffet (TOPS code RFM) and a Mk3 DVT.

From the London end of the train a standard formation would be

DVT
First x 3 FO
Buffet
Second x 5 TSO

There is a very slight difference, but it is negligible , however,

The main issue is the difference in colour between the roof colours


would shop around, have a look at all models and have a look at photos for rakes

[Buzzard]

What you need to be looking for is a copy of the following

London Midland Passenger Train Marshalling Circular

for your chosen year or years.

I have the one for 1980/81 which as well as giving planned formations it shows which service each rake should be used on next.

The other well thought of resource for all things coaches is this

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BRCoachingStock/info

Not a member myself so cannot say for certain what info is held there