Third rail

tadpole · February 20, 2012, 02:34:45 PM

OK. It's time to man up and face the challenge of adding third rail to the electrified parts of my new layout (about half of it).

I've been messing about just resting a piece of surplus rail on the outer edges of the sleepers. Clearly it needs to be raised a little, to stand higher than the running rails, and of course it needs to be fixed in place.

Ideally, it would sit on little "pots", just like the real thing. Maybe dobs of glue can be made to look like pots? Alternatively, maybe fragments of somethingorother cut appropriately and glued onto the sleepers, then mount the third rail on these? Also thought of using OO rail, as this is a little taller (and I happen to have a few feet of it).

It also needs to be bent to exactly match the running rails, this will need patience, but is perfectly achievable.

Any success/failure stories anyone would like to share?

Tank · February 20, 2012, 02:38:36 PM

I was going to use Code 40 for my third rail. For the pots/insulators I was just going to use the copper wire from 2.5mm twin and earth cable. Superglued to the sleepers and the rail, then painted, they should look good to me.

moogle · February 20, 2012, 02:41:50 PM

TBH, would anyone see the pots?
The pots tend to turn black, brown and greasy just like the 3rd rail does!
Personally, I would just use code 80 rail glued to the sleeper.
I have never modelled it but I grew up by the North Kent line so know it well!

Newportnobby · February 20, 2012, 02:45:03 PM

Hope this link works as it is an archived section
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3850

edwin_m · February 20, 2012, 02:48:24 PM

I believe people tend to model third rail at or below running rail level, otherwise it is well night impossible to clean the track.

Fratton · February 20, 2012, 02:59:26 PM

my forthcoming stratagey once i finally put my hand in my pocket and get my 2mm association membership paid for is code 40 rail inserted through cut down insulated rail joiners then a dab of white paint to look like insulator pots,

H · February 20, 2012, 03:52:15 PM

Quote from: moogle on February 20, 2012, 02:41:50 PM
Personally, I would just use code 80 rail glued to the sleeper.
I have never modelled it but I grew up by the North Kent line so know it well!

Nah, I tried that - it doesn't look good at all. Real conductor rail has a smaller profile than running rail, so if you're using code 55 (or even code 80) track then code 80 rail stuck alongside will be too big.

H.

tadpole · February 20, 2012, 07:34:36 PM

Quote from: newportnobby on February 20, 2012, 02:45:03 PM
Hope this link works as it is an archived section
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3850

The link works, but I wish it didn't. That looks ANNOYINGLY good, I'll be very happy if mine looks a tenth as good as that.

Some useful thoughts there, thanks everybody.

In order to reduce the third rail I need, I've decided to segregate diesels and electrics onto separate island platforms. This will also save length and points in the fiddle yard, as each island can have its own few sidings.

I noticed tonight that concrete sleepers taper downwards outside the rail (just like the real thing), so would not be a good base for the juice rail. Tonight, therefore, I swapped most of my concrete sleeper track on to the non-electrified Exeter/Bristol lines.

Greybeema · February 20, 2012, 07:59:23 PM

The picture on rmweb looks like Stoney Lane Depot...

So it looks to me that the best method is to solder shortened track pins to the bottom of code 40 rail. Track pins need to be 4 to 6 sleepers apart and it sounds like some sort of jig needs to be made to make manufacturing easier. Drill the corresponding sleepers then Robert is your Mothers brother. Think that's the process I'll use. That is after I've laid the track, which is after I build the baseboards which of course will follow the building of the Man-Cave..... Ah well at least i'll be prepared...

Southernboy · February 20, 2012, 08:09:35 PM

I experimented a few years back using sliced-up insulating rail-joiners for the pots (4 pots per rail-joiner) - here's a picture:

The only glue that seemed to work was impact adhesive. The third rail is code 40, painted using Railmatch ' Weathered Black'. I found code 55 looked too 'clunky'

I'm currently laying third rail over a section of my layout. In the following pictures you can see a couple of stretches of third rail laid as a test, and you can also see the other pots glued in place (but not yet painted). Because the insulating rail-joiners are translucent the job can be pretty eye-straining - but long-term it's going to be worth it

I hope that helps

There was a post in another thread on this forum a few months ago about using The 2mm Association EasyTrack Chairs as insulating pots. But when I worked out how many I'd need just for one corner of my layout, the cost came to nearly £50.00. So I'm sticking with my tried and tested method.

Anyway - I'll be posting an update on my layout in a few weeks ... so you can see how it all turned out then

tadpole · February 20, 2012, 09:29:34 PM

This looks very good southernboy.
Think I'll give that a try.

Southernboy · February 20, 2012, 10:29:48 PM

Good luck Tadpole - will look forward to pictures

btw - I forgot to mention that one advantage to this method is that because the insulators are designed for code 55 rail, code 40 rail slides through quite easily - allowing a fair degree or horizontal and vertical play, so you don't have to worry too much about having them precisely aligned - just 'reasonably accurate' is near enough

When laid, the third rail is about the same height as the running rails, so shouldn't obstruct cleaning, but at the same time it is still 'raised' above the sleepers, so looks right too

bbdave · February 21, 2012, 06:26:31 AM

Sorry to be a numpty but what does the third rail actualy do?

Dave

Newportnobby · February 21, 2012, 08:10:19 AM

Hi Dave,
The third rail provides the power to the 'shoes' on electric motive power e.g. electric multiple units just as the overhead cables supply power to pantographs on others. Picture the 'shoe' as a small ski outside the main bogie that runs along the third rail to collect the power.

H · February 21, 2012, 08:15:32 AM

Quote from: newportnobby on February 21, 2012, 08:10:19 AM
The third rail provides the power to the 'shoes' on electric motive power e.g. electric multiple units just as the overhead cables supply power to pantographs on others.

That's in real life on the full size trains. On N gauge models it's purely cosmetic to look prototypical, but it doesn't actually do anything.

H.