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Poll

N gauge Pendolino

Yes I'd invest in a crowd sourcing venture for a 9 car N gauge Pendolino
62 (37.1%)
No I wouldn't
74 (44.3%)
I have voted on the RMWeb poll so cannot vote here
31 (18.6%)

Total Members Voted: 165

Author Topic: Pendolino - a new approach  (Read 265385 times)

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Offline njee20

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2014, 10:15:50 am »
I imagine that's one of the big questions - there needs to be enough contingency in the budget to allow for possible increases in price etc. I've no idea on the specific development costs, but agree that if it's going to cost 250k in today's money, then there probably needs to be a small overspend budget, rather than taking 250,000.00 and not a penny more, and crossing ones fingers that that's sufficient!

I'm sure Ben, Mike and Dave will work through things like that though.

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2014, 10:26:50 am »
This is obviously all subject to the contract that we agree with DJ Models, but our latest thinking (and Dave's proposal) is that the work carried out in the various stages of the project will belong to the project so for example let's say that the CAD work had been done and the factory we were using had a problem we would own the CAD and could take the design to another factory.

The other side of it (which Brooksy is talking about) is that DJM and we get our figures wrong at the start, which as I mentioned is really down to how we manage that (in terms of contigencies) and our (Ben's, Dave's and my) experience of producing models.

Cheers, Mike



Offline Formerly NtasticShop

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2014, 10:38:47 am »
Money starts being taken the minute a successfully project reaches is closing deadline, not when funded. It can take a couple of days to collect all the funds, it then takes 7 days for the funds to transfer across to the designated bank account.

If the project is not successfully in reaching its minimum goal in the set time period no money chances hands. Projects will carry on once past the initial goal until time runs out, some projects run many times over initial target, others just scrape over.

This type of funding is very popular in wargaming, I have backed several such projects, this would be the fiveth in model railway world that I am aware of. The third British N Gauge project but the first for RTR. There has been one other RTR project for an Australian N Scale locomotive, that project did not reach funding goal.
Regards
Richard
Formerly NtasticShop
Dapol Apologist (according to RMWeb)
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Why am I surrounded by maroons?

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2014, 09:56:59 pm »
Yes, the Australian AD60. I don't know the prototype but the cost for a single loco was going to be higher than the proposed price for a 9-car Pendolino.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2014, 12:57:54 pm »
Folks

Thanks for all the comments and ideas - we really do appreciate them.

We've started to put together the outline of a website, but there are still quite a few questions regarding interest in the project and particularly specifications that it would be very useful to get a bit more empirical evidence on.

To that end we would be very grateful if you could complete a short questionnaire: http://www.ngaugependolino.com/n-gauge-pendolino-survey/ (it should take no more than 5 minutes!)

Many thanks

Mike



Offline NTrain

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2014, 01:17:54 pm »
Not spotted this on the DEMU Forum. I would think this would be right within their mandate.........

Offline Brooksy

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2014, 01:30:45 pm »
Questionaire filled out - I thought it would be longer than it was.

Regards pricing - I thought that it was interesting that the options of how much would you pay only increased on 250 and didn't go lower. My replies to the questions (before I got to this one) were based on the price being 250. If the price moves up to 300+ you will likely have less willing people (I would certainly reconsider). I guess though you'll find out all this by the replies to the questionaire but for me, I think you should be trying to see what you can do for 250.

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2014, 02:09:53 pm »
Hi Brooksy

Thanks.

I don't think realistically it will be possible to go much below 250 for a 9-coach train.  When a single powered unit is selling for 100+ then you have 8 more coaches (say 15-20 each) to produce then you are already in the 250 ball park figure.

Having said which we are interested in whether people would be interested in shorter rakes if they don't want or can't afford a full set.

Cheers, Mike




Offline njee20

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #83 on: August 27, 2014, 02:13:20 pm »
Done!

Offline Brooksy

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2014, 02:50:14 pm »
I don't think realistically it will be possible to go much below 250 for a 9-coach train.  When a single powered unit is selling for 100+ then you have 8 more coaches (say 15-20 each) to produce then you are already in the 250 ball park figure.

Using (the lower end of) your figures 100 + 8x15 = 220. Sure people will not buy it for a lot of reasons (e.g. no end coupler, etc.) but I think that for a lot of people price will be the most important - it will be interesting to see if this what your survey says too. I think that 250 is entirely reasonable  - I was just a bit scared when I saw an option of 350 in the survey.

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #85 on: August 27, 2014, 03:01:23 pm »
The way that Kickstarter works (if you don't meet your funding target then you get nothing) we have to explore pricing options as it we need to understand the best way to meet the funding target.

For example:

Assuming the funding target is 250k.

1000 people paying 250/set is the same as 715 people paying 350/set.

So we need to find the balance between the funding target, price are prepared/able to pay and numbers of people interested in buying one or more.  It would be very frustrating to have say 900 people willing to pay 300 and for us to set the price at 250 and not meet the funding target.

I don't for one minute think we will end up at 350/set! (Or at least I hope not!)

Obviously the more people we can get interested in the project the better!

Cheers, Mike



Offline njee20

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #86 on: August 27, 2014, 03:23:44 pm »
FWIW I put 300 as an acceptable price!

Offline Brooksy

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #87 on: August 27, 2014, 03:42:56 pm »
For example:

Assuming the funding target is 250k.

1000 people paying 250/set is the same as 715 people paying 350/set.

Ok, thanks for the info - I had not considered this scenario. I thought that the important threshold was the 1000 people not the 250k and the funding target would be set at 1000 x price per set.

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #88 on: August 27, 2014, 04:45:49 pm »
In theory the numbers should be a bit different as for the 715 people you have lower production and shipping costs, just the same fixed costs. Fix costs can easily dominate though with model production.


The big issues to my mind with Kickstarter funding are the ones about failure after the target is met. It's basically the equivalent of buying shares in a business except that its unregulated, you get no say, there is almost no legal protection.

For small things, or if you trust people then it's great. For big things I think it's always asking for a fall because something can go wrong and there is no recourse because you are effectively the investor not the customer.

I'm involved in several kickstarter funded projects but I'd hate to be responsible for fulfilling a big one !

Alan


"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline red_death

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #89 on: August 27, 2014, 05:03:54 pm »
Alan

You are right, but using Kickstarter doesn't give you that option - you are asked to name a funding target and how you fulfil that is left to the project.

I share some of your concerns about crowdfunding - that is why it is important to get the business plan right to start with and then to only release funds in stages.

Cheers, Mike



 

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