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Poll

N gauge Pendolino

Yes I'd invest in a crowd sourcing venture for a 9 car N gauge Pendolino
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I have voted on the RMWeb poll so cannot vote here
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Total Members Voted: 165

Author Topic: Pendolino - a new approach  (Read 265781 times)

monkey_brains, Intercity, njee20, mickster04, Vonzack, pape_timmo, REGP, NewbieN and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Only Me

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2265 on: April 04, 2018, 08:41:01 pm »
I didn’t disagree, I said it was good practice for sure, but I’d really hope there was a little more ‘contingency’ in the chips. Paul’s graph appears to show a decoder maximum of 24v...?


Its the signal voltage you worry about.. as there is only One ac voltage on the track so try putting 24vac into an N decoder and smell the smoke lol
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 08:44:30 pm by Only Me »



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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2266 on: April 04, 2018, 08:49:31 pm »
I didn’t disagree, I said it was good practice for sure, but I’d really hope there was a little more ‘contingency’ in the chips. Paul’s graph appears to show a decoder maximum of 24v...?

That's the title of the graph  :goggleeyes:

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2267 on: April 04, 2018, 08:51:59 pm »
Remember, electronics works on smoke,  when the smoke escapes the electronics stop working.  :doh:

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2268 on: April 04, 2018, 08:54:22 pm »
@PaulCheffus  refer to page 3 of your NMRA standards pdf Paul, it clearly shows N max output under 15v in the diagrams 14v at the track is the usual expected N gauge voltage and most control stations can be set to N gauge or a specific voltage, indeed most dcc users make this a priority when configuring their kit... i cant talk for the EZ as it was originally designed for OO and may or may not come with a 19v transformer in which case if it were me i would change the psu for a 15v one on any n gauge use with a Bachmann DCC EZ controller.  I havent seen their new one yet (Bachmanns) so dont know if its specific for N or not so would check.

As said above, Lenz, the Z21 (black and white editions) and digitrax control stations as well as others have the ability to set to specific voltages some as said above presume when you buy them they will be used on OO....




Hi

From the spec I linked to
Digital Decoders intended for "N" and smaller scales shall be designed to withstand a DC voltage of at least 24 volts as measured at the track.

Cheers

Paul

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2269 on: April 04, 2018, 09:12:28 pm »
That’s still how I read that too. Iz confused :dunce:

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2270 on: April 04, 2018, 09:15:31 pm »
The NMRA spec contains the following.

The actual DC voltage values for each scale is not listed in the standard.  Only the minimum is shown and it is the 12VDC standard we all know and love that has existed longer than I care to know.   

N scale is typically 2V lower or 10VDC.   Why?  Given the smaller size and mass, between the motor and lights, the whole engine gets hot at 12V. 

However the RMS value of NMRA digital signal, measured at the track, shall not exceed by more than 2 volts the voltage specified in standard S-9 for the applicable scale.  The additional voltage is to compensate for voltage drop in the Digital Decoder, to ensure that the maximum voltage as specified in the NMRA Electrical Standard (S-9) is available at the motor brushes.

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2271 on: April 04, 2018, 09:17:59 pm »
Frankly this makes sense as most N motors are aimed at 12 volt working.  There is also a comment in the Revolution FAQ about not using a DC controller giving more than 15 volt DC for the non DCC models.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 09:19:09 pm by Snowwolflair »

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2272 on: April 04, 2018, 09:26:16 pm »
Folks

The DCC sound decoders are ESU Loksound Select Micros. I've no reason to believe that ESU decoders are not NMRA compliant (they certainly claim to be).

We know for certain that >15V DC may blow the decoders - we've seen it happen with N gauge DC controllers - and ESU recommend not running a DCC sound decoder on DC above 15V.

If I understand correctly with DCC there will be some difference with DCC track voltage  and we could be wrong/being over-cautious, but we'd rather warn people than have a lot of disappointed people with blown decoders.

Cheers, Mike




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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2273 on: April 04, 2018, 09:30:16 pm »
Good to know they are ESU, they are quite robust.

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2274 on: April 04, 2018, 09:36:25 pm »

We know for certain that >15V DC may blow the decoders - we've seen it happen with N gauge DC controllers - and ESU recommend not running a DCC sound decoder on DC above 15V.

I'm getting concerned now my DCC sound equipped Poppylino may be affected by me running it on DC using my Morley Vortrack :worried:

Offline georgehgv

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2275 on: April 04, 2018, 09:40:46 pm »

We know for certain that >15V DC may blow the decoders - we've seen it happen with N gauge DC controllers - and ESU recommend not running a DCC sound decoder on DC above 15V.

I'm getting concerned now my DCC sound equipped Poppylino may be affected by me running it on DC using my Morley Vortrack :worried:
Have you got it Mick?
Geominster was my first project which has now been dismantled.

Having learnt so much from Geominster this is the new project.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30850.0

The original layout progress here
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18319.msg184399#msg184399

Visit my new website here
http://georgehgv.wix.com/geominster

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2276 on: April 04, 2018, 09:42:44 pm »
Their spec says  Output: 4 x 12 volts DC at 1.1 amps protected all controlled.  You should be OK

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2277 on: April 04, 2018, 09:42:56 pm »

We know for certain that >15V DC may blow the decoders - we've seen it happen with N gauge DC controllers - and ESU recommend not running a DCC sound decoder on DC above 15V.

I'm getting concerned now my DCC sound equipped Poppylino may be affected by me running it on DC using my Morley Vortrack :worried:

The Morley Vortrack is supposed to be smoothed 12vdc so no worries Nobby



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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2278 on: April 04, 2018, 09:44:47 pm »

We know for certain that >15V DC may blow the decoders - we've seen it happen with N gauge DC controllers - and ESU recommend not running a DCC sound decoder on DC above 15V.

I'm getting concerned now my DCC sound equipped Poppylino may be affected by me running it on DC using my Morley Vortrack :worried:
Have you got it Mick?

Not yet, George, and I'm putting no pressure on Ben & Mike as it must be a humongous job packing all those up for despatch. After all, it's probably only a couple of weeks away.

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Re: Pendolino - a new approach
« Reply #2279 on: April 04, 2018, 09:45:57 pm »

We know for certain that >15V DC may blow the decoders - we've seen it happen with N gauge DC controllers - and ESU recommend not running a DCC sound decoder on DC above 15V.

I'm getting concerned now my DCC sound equipped Poppylino may be affected by me running it on DC using my Morley Vortrack :worried:

The Morley Vortrack is supposed to be smoothed 12vdc so no worries Nobby

Thanks, Paul :sweat:

 

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