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Author Topic: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings  (Read 9504 times)

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Offline AC

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Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« on: February 20, 2014, 01:44:09 pm »
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I can't find specifics now. I've found mention of using 3mm magnets and how to place them for use with the Dapol couplings, but not an exact link to the right ones, which I'm sure I have seen somewhere before.

I've found these on ebay, can anyone please confirm if they would be suitable or if they might be too strong?

I'm going to replace all the plastic wheelsets with metal ones, but I don't want them to be strong enough to grab the wagons.

Here's the link (although I'm not sure I'd need 100 of them...) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100Pcs-3mm-x-1mm-Disc-Rare-Earth-Neodymium-Super-Strong-Magnets-N35-Craft-Models-/400663817932?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item5d496caecc

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.
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Offline PostModN66

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 02:04:04 pm »
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I can't find specifics now. I've found mention of using 3mm magnets and how to place them for use with the Dapol couplings, but not an exact link to the right ones, which I'm sure I have seen somewhere before.

I've found these on ebay, can anyone please confirm if they would be suitable or if they might be too strong?

I'm going to replace all the plastic wheelsets with metal ones, but I don't want them to be strong enough to grab the wagons.

Here's the link (although I'm not sure I'd need 100 of them...) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100Pcs-3mm-x-1mm-Disc-Rare-Earth-Neodymium-Super-Strong-Magnets-N35-Craft-Models-/400663817932?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item5d496caecc

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.


They look ideal to me - shouldn't be a problem grabbing wheels. The exact size is more a matter of practicality, fitting between the sleepers - you probably need to experiment with the height to get a good action.

My latest thinking is maybe to remove one sleeper and have a row of three little magnets on each side.  This is to give a bigger target area so you don't have to be so precise where you bring the train to a halt.

Cheers

Jon   :)
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Offline AndyGif

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 02:12:21 pm »
3x1 probably wont be strong enough. 
3x3 is what I've settled on after reading other threads.
If you get runaway wagons, try a foam axle break.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 04:03:05 pm »
Thanks for the link, AC.
I've bookmarked it as I reckon they'll be easier to disguise than the Dapol 'slabs' ::)

Offline AC

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 04:54:51 pm »
Part of the decision to try these was to make it easier to fit and disguise than the Dapol ones, but I also found that the NEM pocket on the Bachmann Class 04 puts the coupling a little too high for the Dapol magnet to activate properly.

If the magnets in the link I posted created a stronger magnetic field than the Dapol magnet, then it would be easier than trying to adjust the height of the pin on the coupling. I just don't want it to be so strong that it draws the wagons together because of metal axles as they roll over them as that could allow enough slack between couplings for them to uncouple at slow speed. Or would the target area not be big enough for it to do that if I have 3 magnets in a row each side like in the picture in this link? http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18958.msg196371#msg196371
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Offline PostModN66

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 05:38:18 pm »
Part of the decision to try these was to make it easier to fit and disguise than the Dapol ones, but I also found that the NEM pocket on the Bachmann Class 04 puts the coupling a little too high for the Dapol magnet to activate properly.

If the magnets in the link I posted created a stronger magnetic field than the Dapol magnet, then it would be easier than trying to adjust the height of the pin on the coupling. I just don't want it to be so strong that it draws the wagons together because of metal axles as they roll over them as that could allow enough slack between couplings for them to uncouple at slow speed. Or would the target area not be big enough for it to do that if I have 3 magnets in a row each side like in the picture in this link? http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18958.msg196371#msg196371


Hi AC,

I know it is possible to get the height of the magnets correct so that uncoupling occurs without the effect you mention.  Having said that, there is one uncoupler on Neal Cooper's "Horseblock Lane" that I help to operate that does uncouple easily, it is just possible that this is this effect - (let's check this Neal).

However the other installations are fine - but require good driving skills to stop over the magnet.

I am mulling over what the effect the size of target area would have.  My immediate thought is that this wouldn't have a bearing on the "slack" effect you describe...but let me mull on it...!

I fear though, if you are hoping not to have to adjust the pins you may be disappointed.  In my experience constant pin tweaking is needed!

On the topic of your 04, my Farish 37 is similar - the couplers are way high compared to all my wagons.  However, moving the pin down to the same level as on the wagons results in good performance, even though the couplers are way out of alignment.

Cheers

Jon   :)
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Offline AC

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 06:06:44 pm »
Thanks for the thoughts so far.


I am mulling over what the effect the size of target area would have.  My immediate thought is that this wouldn't have a bearing on the "slack" effect you describe...but let me mull on it...!


I'm thinking if the distance the magnets cover is long enough for the magnetic field to attract the axle of the trailing wagon while it is being drawn over the magnet while the pins of both couplings are still over the magnets, then that's where I can foresee the problem I mentioned in my previous post. I don't have any of my converted stock in front of me to be able to look at the distance that would need to be covered for that to be able to take place.
This doesn't happen with the Dapol magnet despite the length as the magnetic field isn't strong enough.

I guess most of these thoughts are coming from not wanting to buy a load of magnets that I then won't be able to use for anything if I do have problems...


I fear though, if you are hoping not to have to adjust the pins you may be disappointed.  In my experience constant pin tweaking is needed!

On the topic of your 04, my Farish 37 is similar - the couplers are way high compared to all my wagons.  However, moving the pin down to the same level as on the wagons results in good performance, even though the couplers are way out of alignment.


I've adjusted the pins horizontally as I recall seeing in a previous conversation somewhere that they work better if the pin is pointing more towards the centre, but how easy is it to adjust the pin vertically? There's not much of the pin visible above the height of the coupling on the short ones, so I haven't tried making vertical adjustments in case I pull the whole thing apart.
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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 08:09:30 pm »
Hi AC,

A general point is that it is good to think about these subtle effects as the whole process is pretty subtle so small irritations can cause a problem.

I think though about Dapol vs rare earth magnets, the field needs to be strong enough to operate the pin, so the weaker Dapol magnets need to be closer than the rare earths do, so the propensity to attract axles would end up the same.  The only thing I can think of is that there might be a "notching" effect - because the rare Earth magnets are discrete little things you might get one pulling forward on the trailing wagon whilst another pulls backwards on the leading one or some such thing.  This would bear a bit of testing!!!

On the point of adjusting the pin vertically I do this all the time - I just hook my thumb nail under and give it a pull until it just clears points!  Not much science but it makes all the difference!  Please don't sue me though if you bust one!

If you want some reassurance about the magnets, the ones on Horseblock Lane generally work fine.  The only issue we have had (apart from the one that releases a bit more easily than the rest) is the narrow target area of just using one pair.  If you get it right they come open very nicely, but I have suggested to Neal that we double up to make the judgement easier.

If you do buy the magnets and have a struggle, I will take them off your hands at £2.79!!  They always come in useful.

Cheers Jon   :)

 
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Offline AC

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 09:37:17 pm »
Thanks for that. I'll have to have a play with adjusting the pin on the class 04s coupling then and see what happens.
I guess it's just a case of ordering some magnets and seeing how I get on with them.

Good excuse for setting up a small shunting plank to try them out on...
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Offline PostModN66

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2014, 10:01:30 pm »
Good excuse for setting up a small shunting plank to try them out on...

Excellent idea!!!

Jon  :)
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Offline DCCDave

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 10:21:07 pm »
This works really well:



The magnets are 8mm long and 2mm in diameter. The length of the balsa block ensures I don't have to be too accurate when stopping over them. The two rows of magnets ensure the trip pins are pulled in opposite directions.

Cheers
Dave

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2014, 10:44:56 pm »
Hello,

I used 3mm x 2mm circular rare earth magnets on my layout. Here is the post detailing how I fitted them.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48728-dapol-easi-shunt-magnetic-couplings-in-n/?p=569182

For fine tuning the trip pins, check out this post.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48728-dapol-easi-shunt-magnetic-couplings-in-n/?p=570075
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Offline Calnefoxile

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 09:22:31 am »

I used this chap http://www.guysmagnets.com/ mainly because he's local to me and I can just pick them up. But he does seem quite competitive on price and he is an expert on magnetics.

I haven't tried them yet, but it is on my rountuit list, along with everything else I've got to do  :worried:

Regards

Neal.

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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 03:37:45 pm »
That's an interesting way of doing it with the balsa block, although you'd need to cut out a hole below the baseboard to fit it in.

Thanks again, all.
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Re: Rare Earth Magnets for Dapol Couplings
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2014, 02:19:49 pm »
Finally got some of the rare earth magnets, now for the silly question, they seem to have north pole on one face and south on the other, which way around do I fit them,  both lines of magnets north up, both lines south up or one side north up the other side south up?.   They don't seem to work as well as my original Kadee magnets but that's perhaps because I'm using them wrong.   :dunce:

 

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