Hi All,
I picked up this little wagon from Graham farish yesterday at the show in a clear peco type box with no hint as to what it is, for the glazing there is a loose piece of clear sheet inside although the previous owner could have added it, could anyone enlighten me on it's identity please.
(http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii377/upnick/S5300006-001.jpg)
Its a horse box. Other than that others will enlarge on its origins I'm sure.
Cheers Jerry ;) :thumbsup: have the birds arrived :smiley-laughing:
Cheers Nick,
No they are still in transit did you send them on a pidgeon special ?
Let you know as soon as they land.
Hi Jerry,
They went Air mail on the 25th so they should be near your loft soon :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Quote from: Jerry Howlett on September 02, 2012, 11:48:09 AM
Let you know as soon as they land.
When they do you will be able to start up a guano business >:D :smiley-laughing:
cheers John.
Hi Nick,
Yup, horse box. If you need another one I've got a spare.
Alex :wave:
Quote from: upnick on September 02, 2012, 12:25:35 PM
Hi Jerry,
They went Air mail on the 25th so they should be near your loft soon :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Hope you gave them clear directions as few folks around here anything other than Italian...... let alone Pidgin English !
Quote from: Jerry Howlett on September 02, 2012, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: upnick on September 02, 2012, 12:25:35 PM
Hi Jerry,
They went Air mail on the 25th so they should be near your loft soon :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
Hope you gave them clear directions as few folks around here anything other than Italian...... let alone Pidgin English !
:smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:
I saw some yesterday at a swapmeet, I think it might be early Graham Farish, if the couplings are unsprung. It's rather nice, as it's plain, you could easily change the livery if you wanted to.
Horse boxes usually were attached to passenger trains.
Regards
Veronica
:NGaugeForum:
Hi Nick,
This looks like your horsebox in original livery.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-SIR-GEORGE-WIDGEON-HORSE-BOX-VAN-2711-BOXED-/200812790171?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2ec160019b (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GRAHAM-FARISH-N-GAUGE-SIR-GEORGE-WIDGEON-HORSE-BOX-VAN-2711-BOXED-/200812790171?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2ec160019b)
Alex
Hi Alex,
Many thanks for the link i think the previous owner stripped the wagon by the look of it, i've repainted mine in a mid green & fitted MT couplers .........still to gloss varnish & decal yet though. ;)
Quote from: upnick on September 07, 2012, 10:33:18 PM
Hi Alex,
Many thanks for the link i think the previous owner stripped the wagon by the look of it, i've repainted mine in a mid green & fitted MT couplers .........still to gloss varnish & decal yet though. ;)
I bought one of these some time ago at a swapmeet; it has sprung couplings & the Graham Farish name + "MADE IN ENGLAND" moulded into the Chassis, and the wagon appears never to have borne paint or decals. My first problem is that I need to know (if possible) what railway's product is it based on, what diagram number was it and what colour should it be to run on my railway based on BR 1948 - 1968? I'm also building an NGS Mk 1 Horsebox; In his books on BR Parcels & Passenger Rated Stock, David Larkin writes that this should be BR(S) Green or BR(E) Crimson. In these books, Mr Larkin uses the word "Crimson" where most of us would use "Carmine" or "Carmine Red". Unfortunately, by the time these vehicles were being built & some BR(S) stock (such as some of the horse boxes) was being painted Green, Carmine/Crimson had been replaced for passenger carrying stock by Maroon on other regions. Can anyone please confirm my suspicion that, in this case, Mr Larkin has erred and that those Mk 1 horse boxes that weren't painted Green were all painted Maroon?
Geez, this a thread woken up!
Good question, though! :beers:
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AMMy first problem is that I need to know (if possible) what railway's product is it based on, what diagram number was it
It isn't an exact replica of any prototype, but is closest to a GNR design of c 1920. (should be 2ft longer)
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AMand what colour should it be to run on my railway based on BR 1948 - 1968?
At the start of that date range - Brown (shade variable from tan to v dark depending when it was last painted). In the middle of that range - unlined Crimson. after c 1960 - charcoal (it would have become firewood!)
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AMIn his books on BR Parcels & Passenger Rated Stock, David Larkin writes that this should be BR(S) Green or BR(E) Crimson. In these books, Mr Larkin uses the word "Crimson" where most of us would use "Carmine" or "Carmine Red".
In these books, Mr Larkin
CORRECTLY uses the
official description "Crimson" where most
MODELLERS INCORRECTLY use "Carmine" or "Carmine Red".
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AMUnfortunately, by the time these vehicles were being built & some BR(S) stock (such as some of the horse boxes) was being painted Green, Carmine/Crimson had been replaced for passenger carrying stock by Maroon on other regions. Can anyone please confirm my suspicion that, in this case, Mr Larkin has erred and that those Mk 1 horse boxes that weren't painted Green were all painted Maroon?
Nope - in Crimson from new. Some were repainted in Maroon (an odd few even lined) but most were never repainted and remained in crimson...
Isn't this forum amazing? No matter how obscure or specialist the question, somebody knows the answer!
:NGaugersRule:
Cheers,
Chris
Quote from: Bealman on April 04, 2018, 12:06:11 PM
Geez, this a thread woken up!
Good question, though! :beers:
I couldn't find the answers by searching & I don't know how to start my own thread - unless the Forum gives you that option when you breathe life into an old one. :)
Quote from: PLD on April 04, 2018, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AM.
In these books, Mr Larkin CORRECTLY uses the official description "Crimson" where most MODELLERS INCORRECTLY use "Carmine" or "Carmine Red".
Ouch!
Quote from: PLD on April 04, 2018, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AMMy first problem is that I need to know (if possible) what railway's product is it based on, what diagram number was it
It isn't an exact replica of any prototype, but is closest to a GNR design of c 1920. (should be 2ft longer)
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AMand what colour should it be to run on my railway based on BR 1948 - 1968?
At the start of that date range - Brown (shade variable from tan to v dark depending when it was last painted). In the middle of that range - unlined Crimson. after c 1960 - charcoal (it would have become firewood!)
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AMUnfortunately, by the time these vehicles were being built & some BR(S) stock (such as some of the horse boxes) was being painted Green, Carmine/Crimson had been replaced for passenger carrying stock by Maroon on other regions. Can anyone please confirm my suspicion that, in this case, Mr Larkin has erred and that those Mk 1 horse boxes that weren't painted Green were all painted Maroon?
Nope - in Crimson from new. Some were repainted in Maroon (an odd few even lined) but most were never repainted and remained in crimson...
Thanks for that. Looks like a fictitious number would be in order, especially since my railway is also fictitious & set in a fictitious place.
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AM
I bought one of these some time ago at a swapmeet; it has sprung couplings & the Graham Farish name + "MADE IN ENGLAND" moulded into the Chassis, and the wagon appears never to have borne paint or decals.
Nice find from the very, very early days of British N Gauge. Farish introduced a range of wagons around 1970 (before they started making locos) and the early ones were unpainted and fitted with Arnold-type sprung couplers in a big round-bottomed coupler box. At one point Farish were promising to introduce one new wagon every month. You could buy a transfer sheet separately, and one of the railway magazines ran a "Paint your wagon" competition in 1970-71. At some point Farish replaced the nice reliable sprung coupler with the infamous "U-bend" version, presumably to avoid having to pay royalties to Arnold, not sure when this happened but I think it was around 1973-4.
Richard
Quote from: SheldonC on April 04, 2018, 11:52:26 AMUnfortunately, by the time these vehicles were being built & some BR(S) stock (such as some of the horse boxes) was being painted Green, Carmine/Crimson had been replaced for passenger carrying stock by Maroon on other regions. Can anyone please confirm my suspicion that, in this case, Mr Larkin has erred and that those Mk 1 horse boxes that weren't painted Green were all painted Maroon?
Nope - in Crimson from new. Some were repainted in Maroon (an odd few even lined) but most were never repainted and remained in crimson...
[/quote] Thanks for that. Looks like a fictitious number would be in order, especially since my railway is also fictitious & set in a fictitious place.
[/quote]
Since receiving this information, and painting my kit-built Mk 1 horse box crimson, I have obtained a copy of Keith Parkin's highly respected book "British Railways Mark 1 Coaches" and the 2006 supplement. Mr Parkin makes it clear that BR never used the term "carmine"; the early form of red was, as stated, always referred to as "crimson". However, the only reference he makes to HB in any shade of red is in the caption on p. 199, showing that "E96307 on display in 1957 is in unlined maroon livery." Whilst it is possible the first 6 built (not in numerical order, according to Hugh Longworth) were painted crimson - especially as they preceded E96307 by several months - it appears likely all of those built afterwards that weren't green would have been in unlined maroon.
Going off topic (sorry)......
I have been comparing some lined maroon suburbans from Farish with their crimson finish examples. Crimson looks a delight - to me the maroon looks dirty next to them. Just an observation.
Quote from: BobB on August 11, 2018, 12:53:15 PM
Going off topic (sorry)......
I have been comparing some lined maroon suburbans from Farish with their crimson finish examples. Crimson looks a delight - to me the maroon looks dirty next to them. Just an observation.
I much prefer full-size coaches in maroon to those in crimson & cream, largely as the crimson tends to fade (UV?). However, in model form, I find the maroon coaches tend to look dowdy, muddy, whereas the crimson & cream ones look great.