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Author Topic: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks  (Read 601 times)

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Offline oreamnos

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Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« on: July 13, 2017, 10:25:42 pm »
I was surprised I couldn't find an existing thread on this site about the Dapol 6 wheel milk tanks.  I did have a pretty good look but if one already exists which I missed, my apologies for starting a duplicate thread.

Has anyone who keeps their ear to the ground about these sorts of things heard if Dapol will be doing another run of silver Unigate milk tanks sometime soon?  Not long after I started to build up a rake of them (I'm up to 13, the majority being from the old Hymek + 6 weathered tanks boxed set), they seem to have disappeared from stockists completely.  I haven't seen many on a certain auction site, either.  I'm looking for at least another five of them.

Many thanks for any news.

Matt

Online Carmont

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 08:15:03 am »
Now that you mention it, I notice that supply has dried up as well. I have 18, all of which came from the sets you mention, two 22s and one 35, although I wouldn't mind maybe half a dozen more (although funds are lacking at the moment).

Someone has asked on Dapol Digest about a re-run of a different livery, but hasn't had a reply publicly from Dapol as yet.

On the Dogfish/Catfish thread on the digest, Dapol have commented that the exchange rate makes it too expensive to do a re-issue of the Dogfish at present, so I suspect the same will be true of the Milk Tanker.

Ref :   https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/freight-stock-aa/br-departmental-stock/2336-catfish-wagons


Offline joe cassidy

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2017, 12:20:42 pm »
For me 13 wagons is more than enough for a train of full tankers.

If your train is a train of empties it could be longer.

Best regards,

Joe

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2017, 12:25:46 pm »
I have 12 silver ones but had to buy two box sets to get them, then consequently sold off the locos to keep the six wagons in each...



Offline oreamnos

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2017, 06:09:32 pm »
For me 13 wagons is more than enough for a train of full tankers.

If your train is a train of empties it could be longer.

Best regards,

Joe

I have an old Bradford Barton book ("Diesels on Midland Region") which has a picture of a green SYP class 40 hauling a rake of 18 of them plus a brake van over Shap.  I'm trying to replicate that.

Matt
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 06:10:38 pm by oreamnos, Reason: Fixed typo. »

Online NeMo

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2017, 06:37:48 pm »
I have an old Bradford Barton book ("Diesels on Midland Region") which has a picture of a green SYP class 40 hauling a rake of 18 of them plus a brake van over Shap.  I'm trying to replicate that.

Empties, surely? If you accept a loaded milk tank isn't much less weight (14 tons empty, 28 tons loaded) than a Mk1 coach (30-35 tons), I think you'll get a better feel for a 'realistic' number. Traffic was also very seasonal -- the West Country trains ranged from 4-15 tankers according to 'Diesels on Cornwall's Main Line'.

Loaded, 18 tankers at 28 tons each is 504 tons altogether, which would be a very heavy train for a Class 40. Does your book say which way the train is going? Towards London would likely be loaded; but trains the other direction would probably be empties.

Cheers, NeMo

Offline oreamnos

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 09:35:44 pm »
Hi NeMo.  The book is at home and I'm not, but the photographer is Derek Cross and I remember the caption says something similar to what you just have.  Namely, that the train was in excess of 500 tons and that was "a respectable" load to take over Shap.  I think the caption even mentioned what you just did - that a loaded milk tank weighed almost as much as a coach.  Hmm... did you use to write photo captions?   ;)

When I get back home I will post exactly what the caption says.

Matt

Offline oreamnos

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2017, 09:53:12 pm »
Towards London would likely be loaded; but trains the other direction would probably be empties.

Cheers, NeMo

Hi again, NeMo. 

All right, here is the caption for the picture verbatim, which appears on page 49 of "Diesels on Midland Region" by G. Weekes.

"At the date of this photograph in the summer of 1964, Dillicar water troughs in the the Lune gorge south of Tebay were still operational.  Class 40 D311 speeds along the level section here heading south with a Carlisle-Kensington train of milk tanks.  Twenty of these rough-riding six wheelers, plus a brake van - probably a trailing load of 575 tons or so, was a respectable load to take over Shap. [Derek Cross]"

The picture is very clear and you can actually count the 20 milk tanks in the consist.  It looks like I incorrectly remembered the number of tanks in the picture.  I will need 7 more instead of just 5!

I found a picture on the internet of a different train, but taken from exactly the same spot with the train heading in the same direction as the class 40 picture, here:

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-london-midland-scottish-railway-5p5f-class-4-6-0-news-photo/102726314#the-london-midland-scottish-railway-5p5f-class-460-locomotive-number-picture-id102726314

On page 53 of the same G. Weekes' book, there is another picture of a class 40 on milk tanks with the following caption:

"Penrith again, on the south side, with D303 heading towards London with milk tanks from Carlisle, 21 July 1962.  This Class 40 was then based on Kingmoor shed at Carlisle but is now allocated to Longsight (Manchester) depot. [Derek Cross]"

I count 16 tanks in that picture, plus what looks like a Stove R.

So...even though they were heavy trains for a 40, at least in the early 1960s it seems the 2000hp was considered sufficient.

Matt
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 04:03:00 am by oreamnos, Reason: Complete re-write with new information. »

Online NeMo

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2017, 07:41:21 am »
Some cool info there, thanks for sharing!

Looking on Google this morning, certainly wasn't hard finding photos of Class 52s heading very long milk trains (easily over 15 tankers) so I guess such trains did happen, even in the West Country.

But I also saw lots of Type-2s (such as Class 25s) hauling much shorter trains, so if you're modelling the LMR, you've got plenty of scope there for different length trains representing, perhaps, loadings that vary at different times of the year.

In all honesty milk tankers are the one type of wagon where the number you have really doesn't matter. I think what matters more -- and people more frequently ignore -- is the livery of the tanker, the dairy they're assigned to, and whether or not a brake van/full brake coach is included in the train.

Cheers, NeMo

Online emjaybee

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 12:07:00 pm »
Gentleman, start your engines!

EBay, one boxed set of Loco and six weathered milk tankers has just appeared.

I'm only telling you as they're weathered so I'm not interested.

Have fun.

 :D
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...sometimes the dog bites you!

Online emjaybee

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 12:07:37 pm »
Oh yes, meant to say, I'm not the seller.

Carry on.
Sometimes you bite the dog...

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Offline JasonBz

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 04:03:55 pm »
Milk trains got longer the nearer London they got.
Say 6 tankers left St Erth, 6 are added at Lostwithiel and 6 more at Totnes - from a short train to a long one in a shortish journey!

A Type Two may have swapped at Lostwithiel for a Western or 50 on the clays to Fowey, the more powerful loco taking the heavier train, particularly over the Devon banks.

Offline ten0G

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2017, 05:14:14 pm »
I think what matters more -- and people more frequently ignore -- is the livery of the tanker, the dairy they're assigned to, and whether or not a brake van/full brake coach is included in the train.

I think also of importance is the presence or not of catwalks, noticeable at even a scale 100mph ( :goggleeyes: ), also if the tankers are of the later silver finish, whether the branding is to the left or right of the barrel. 

I realise by the early sixties, tankers may have moved from their original areas, but was under the impression from a library book I read in the early eighties that Swindon-built ones had no catwalks, whereas some other regions did. 

So far I have looked at plenty of Paul Bartlett pictures but have yet to find any with the branding on the right except Unigate, all the others are on the left, with or without catwalks.  Maybe I just haven't found the right pages yet, but I'm beginning to wonder if Unigate chose to use the other side so that their tankers were easily identifiable even if the printing was hard to read in a weathered state. 

If anyone has any additional information to share please, I for one would be very grateful, thanks. 

Offline Karhedron

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Re: Dapol 6 Wheel Milk Tanks
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 09:57:38 am »
A Type Two may have swapped at Lostwithiel for a Western or 50 on the clays to Fowey, the more powerful loco taking the heavier train, particularly over the Devon banks.

Typically traction was switched at Plymouth but you are right about the South Devon Banks being a limiting factor. Here is 4705 taking charge of the Penzance - Kensington milk train in steam days. The train would have been brought to Plymouth by something small like a Hall or County since the 4700s were not allowed over the bridge into Cornwall.

Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

 

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