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Author Topic: Mixing European Rolling Stock  (Read 694 times)

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Offline Josiebenn

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Mixing European Rolling Stock
« on: July 10, 2017, 03:36:55 pm »
Does it matter (to the rivet counters) if I mix a train of various wagons e.g. SBB with SNCF with DB with OBB rolling stock behind say an SBB Re482.   Or are the various freight wagons kept within national boundaries.  or is there some other same-identity factor that is real-life practice?   I ask because if I wanted to create an SBB exclusive freight train, there aren't that many wagon varieties to find.

TVM

Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 04:17:20 pm »
Wagons have a particular habit of crossing national boundaries, especially in Europe. This means that, in theory, you could have SBB, DB and  SNCF wagons in the same train (or various other country combinations). So long as they are of the same era, and gauge (i.e. not a model of a narrow gauge wagon, or Spanish broad gauge etc.), it should look fine.

I am sure if you wanted it to look 100% correct, then brake types would be accounted for. There are loads of pictures on the net to provide you with inspiration.

Offline Hiawatha

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 05:05:50 pm »
It would be more unusual to find a freight train consisting of wagons from just one country. Most standard freight cars from European countries are part of the RIV pool which means that such freight cars can be used from other rail companies like they were their own and often don't return to their home country for a long time.
If your models have RIV markings (usually near the first digits of the road number) then they are perfectly suited for an SBB freight train. Certainly, DB, SNCF, ÖBB, FS or Eastern European (e.g. Hungarian, Czech or Slovakian) cars could be hauled by a Re 482.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 05:30:51 pm »
Some great answers above.  :NGF:

Only thing I'd add is this -- while wagons certainly do cross borders, for realism, you'd probably be better off modelling a specific 'working'. Standing on the platform at Berkhamsted here in England I can watch international trains, but they're usually one type of freight moving between somewhere in the UK and somewhere in Europe.

Case in point is the daily covered wagon train that, I'm told, is carrying Perrier water from France to some distribution point in the Midlands. There's also a very impressive china clay working that goes along the WCML on its way to the Channel Tunnel.

So maybe think of a particular traffic going through the country you're modelling -- and buy sufficient 'foreign' wagons to model that!

Cheers, NeMo

Offline marco neri

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2017, 10:04:06 pm »
Hi,
Here in continental Europe it's so easy to find mix trains freight wagons...SBB-OBB-FS-SNCF-DB...especially hauled by various type of Re..482, 483, 485,486....last 487's

Marco
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 12:41:54 am »
1) Does it matter (to the rivet counters) if I mix a train of various wagons e.g. SBB with SNCF with DB with OBB rolling stock behind say an SBB Re482.   

2) Or are the various freight wagons kept within national boundaries. 

3)   I ask because if I wanted to create an SBB exclusive freight train, there aren't that many wagon varieties to find.

1) absolutely not, European railway wagons have been crossing borders for around 100 years. The RIV (freight) agreement was made in 1921, between the European railways, establishing common standards for the “international exchange” of wagons. The system was streamlined in the 1950s with the creation of the Europ pool, where wagons that were given the correct designation could travel outside their 'home' country and be used willy nilly by any European railway until there 'service' was due, whence they would be returned home. At first these wagons carried 'Europ' in large letters. In the mid 1960s new numbering was introduced and interworkable wagons were lettered '01 RIV Europ' with the country number and name underneath, eg '85 SBB-CFF'. Other wagons could cross borders on specific traffic, but had to be returned straight away, these were usually lettered eg 21 RIV 85 SBB-CFF 

2) certain types of wagons for specific local flows will stay within Switzerland

3) Are you sure?
I estimate there are at least 30 types of SBB wagon available in N gauge, some with many livery variants. There are at least 200 different models of Swiss wagons in existence at a rough count.


.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 08:33:00 am by Gordon »
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Offline GScaleBruce

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 10:03:21 am »
3)   I ask because if I wanted to create an SBB exclusive freight train, there aren't that many wagon varieties to find.
3) Are you sure?
I estimate there are at least 30 types of SBB wagon available in N gauge, some with many livery variants. There are at least 200 different models of Swiss wagons in existence at a rough count.
Indeed - a quick and not overly scientific search on DM Toys (usual disclaimer - no connection other than a satisfied customer) - suggests at least 34 items in current production DM Toys SBB freight wagons - some of course are different liveries of the same wagon variety.
Bruce
My layout - Steinheim am Main

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 10:35:06 am »
Yep, just searchng spurweite-n.de for SBB freight wagons comes up with around 600 items of all eras, and of course that will include re-issues of the same item under different catalogue numbers etc.   Filter it down to era V and V1 for modern stuff and it's still 250+
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Online woodbury22uk

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 10:49:29 am »
3)   I ask because if I wanted to create an SBB exclusive freight train, there aren't that many wagon varieties to find.
3) Are you sure?
I estimate there are at least 30 types of SBB wagon available in N gauge, some with many livery variants. There are at least 200 different models of Swiss wagons in existence at a rough count.
Indeed - a quick and not overly scientific search on DM Toys (usual disclaimer - no connection other than a satisfied customer) - suggests at least 34 items in current production DM Toys SBB freight wagons - some of course are different liveries of the same wagon variety.

I like the sugar beet harvest train. https://www.en.dm-toys.de/produktdetails/items/Trix-T15990.html
Mike

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Offline daffy

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 11:06:40 am »
Yes, there is no shortage of SBB freight wagons of many types out there in model land.
My problem is finding the money and then the justification for buying them! :D

European sites such as DM Toys and Modellbahnshop Lippe tend to keep their web pages up to date and so only list what they actually have (or expect to have for new releases). Other sites have odd, now discontinued models that can be hard to find, while many U.K. sites may not have stock but keep the item listed so you get an idea what might be found elsewhere.

As an aside, I find this latter practise both a benefit and an irritation. The benefit is clear, but some of these UK sites are listing items as 'out of stock' that will probably never be 'in stock', the prices shown being what they once sold it for, maybe more than a year ago. It would be nice if they could differentiate these items in their listings so what they actually have available is clear.


Lastly you can get a clearer picture of what has been released in N for SBB freight if you labour through listings such as the great one at

http://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/index.php

Pick a manufacturer from the listing index at the left side of the page, then choose what to look for. Sadly I find it's search facility is up the creek at the moment, but I still enjoy finding what might be found for SBB freight, locos, and carriages. I have found some great items, some I have managed to source, while others remain on my 'wants and wishes' list. Some I suspect will be very hard to find, but the choice is wide.

Personally I am choosing to restrict myself to purely SBB and RhB stock on my layout. It may not be prototypical but it makes me happy - and means I don't get an overdraft! ;)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 11:09:19 am by daffy »
Mike

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Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 01:23:16 pm »

I like the sugar beet harvest train. https://www.en.dm-toys.de/produktdetails/items/Trix-T15990.html

Love the conveyer / loader, wonder it that's available as a separate kit?

Pretty sure Arnold used to do a set of Eaos wagons with beet load.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline swisstrains

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 09:35:39 pm »

I like the sugar beet harvest train. https://www.en.dm-toys.de/produktdetails/items/Trix-T15990.html


Love the conveyer / loader, wonder it that's available as a separate kit?

Pretty sure Arnold used to do a set of Eaos wagons with beet load.


I don't think it is available separately. Minitrix had it specially made for them.
It was one of the most fiddly kits that I have ever built.  :D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 09:38:21 pm by swisstrains »
John

Offline Gordon

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2017, 12:49:35 am »
I ask because if I wanted to create an SBB exclusive freight train,


At this point in the discussion it would be helpful if you could give an idea of what sort of freight wagon/trains you like. Switzerland is getting rare in Europe in still having significant wagon load so you get some lovely mixed freights.

This sub album in my pic site has higher than average 'freight content' and as you can see my interest in freight is illustrated by photos I take of wagons in the middle of trains, for modelling purposes (and because I've been a big rail freight fan since around 1973)

http://railfoteurop.piwigo.com/index?/category/104-killwangen_spreitenbach_limmattal_2_jul_2013


.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

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Offline Gordon

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2017, 12:52:26 am »
while many U.K. sites may not have stock but keep the item listed so you get an idea what might be found elsewhere.
As an aside, I find this latter practise both a benefit and an irritation.

this is not unique to UK retailers, I have come across the problem on some European sites as well


.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline daffy

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Re: Mixing European Rolling Stock
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2017, 09:11:34 am »
I've found that too Gordon.

Re your photos link, sadly it comes up as follows (edited view of webpage):



Mike

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