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Author Topic: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class  (Read 4139 times)

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Offline Nick

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2017, 03:33:56 pm »
Like others, I'd be interested in this in principle, but...

We're three and a half years down the road since DJM models was launched, and a wheel is yet to turn on N gauge metal as far as I know. Not so much as a wagon. And only one, (or is it two?), models in another gauge, of which I've heard mixed reports and have no way to judge their truth.

"Vapourware" was once a term in another industry, in another century, that is beginning to seem relevant.

I just don't feel like putting money down on what is inevitably going to be a complex model before seeing at least something from the same stable in the same scale, in production.
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline koyli55002

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2017, 03:39:14 pm »
Come to Perth in June Pete and see the class 17 models, hopefully painted, in the flesh.
Might also have another, or 2, N gauge goodies for you too see as well.  ;)

Well, looks like there IS light at the end of the tunnel ? And it IS an approaching train ! (OK.....OK, I know the Clayton's didn't have headlights !)

Offline red_death

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2017, 04:07:41 pm »
Yay, looking forward to getting a Clayton or two.

Cheers, Mike



Offline JosephP

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2017, 04:18:54 pm »
I understand a bit of reluctance/scepticism. But Dave does have track record not just as DJM but from his previous role at Dapol. As they say on Dragon's Den, I'm in.

Offline DJM Dave

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2017, 04:28:41 pm »
Like others, I'd be interested in this in principle, but...

We're three and a half years down the road since DJM models was launched, and a wheel is yet to turn on N gauge metal as far as I know. Not so much as a wagon. And only one, (or is it two?), models in another gauge, of which I've heard mixed reports and have no way to judge their truth.

"Vapourware" was once a term in another industry, in another century, that is beginning to seem relevant.

I just don't feel like putting money down on what is inevitably going to be a complex model before seeing at least something from the same stable in the same scale, in production.

Hi,
I think I should clarify any things for you.
Whilst I would normally agree wth your comment, it forgets my provenance and history.
I was , in a previous life, brought into my previous company as the product development manager by George Smith, who gave me pretty much free reign.
I chose what models we produced, liveries etc.
I advised on the 66 before I joined them and the Voyager in the 6 months up to release. They were both my ideas, and mostly my designs.
Moving forward, I designed the Q1, 67, Hymek, 9f, B1, B17, A3, A4, 56, 58, 52, 22, 33, 26, 27, Britannia, 86, 121 + 122 bubble cars, Terrier, Pannier, HST, DVT, manor, Hall, 28xx plus the OO gauge sentinel, 10000, 22, 52, Beattie. Plus a few wagons Of which quite a few contributed the the 16+ model of the year awards won in my time there.
I introduced 6 pin DCC, light bars, close coupling mechanisms, magnetic couplers and yes 'working' semaphore signals into the N gauge market.

Now, moving forward, as a stand alone company I have redesigned the Beattie, designed the O2, 14xx, J94, D600, king, PBA wagon, and forthcoming gate stock in OO gauge.
I've designed the 17 in N gauge and the mermaid wagon. The mermaid wagon was shown as a small rake at the N gauge show and Warley last year, and is currently in production. The class 17 is in the tool room and will be unveiled at Perth show in late June.

So, apart from blowing my own trumpet here, I guess I'm trying to convey that I have a track record. I've made mistakes, but who hasn't? But generally the models I have designed are still being made and still being sold. That must convince even the most sceptical that I can do it. If not, I'm doing it wrong.

Now before anyone pipes in( and there are a few on here that will, I know) and say "well it's been xxx years and still we haven't seen anything' I would say......your right, but equally I'd say, 'my business plan is well known, I haven't hid, I've broadcasted what I'm going to produce and in what order, and I've said why'

I'll recap here though.
When I started this, I decided the OO gauge J94 would be the bread and butter to my plans. A loco that would sell, and make a profit and keep monies coming in to re-invest.
However I made the mistake, or possibly the wise decision, to double the tooling costs, to allow me to get maximum use of the too,big and produce alternate variants of the model.
So I took 46k and doubled it on an e-mail to China.
That 92k came from my house sale! Yes really. How many of you would have that conviction?

Anyway, that's now come to fruition and the J94 is making a meager existence and it has helped the class 17 and the mermaid reach the tool room / production.
I say meager, because with the vote last year, and the exchange rates going through the floor, where I was once dealing with 1ukú to the 11.5 hk$ , and 1ukú to the 1.5 us $ I'm now dealing with the hk$ @ 9.67 and us @1.14 and its hurt more than a bit. I've kept prices down to be honourable too.

However I'm still here, the plans are still sound, it's just going to take time.
However if my using a coreless motor and better electronics in my models and my history won't persuade you then I can only apologies.

Dave
DJModels Ltd
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 07:22:42 pm by DJM Dave »
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

Offline crepello

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2017, 04:46:33 pm »
Hopefully that rather impressive CV will dispel any doubts!
That's good news about the Mermaids Dave.

Offline Steven B

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2017, 05:02:11 pm »
Dave,

There are few that would doubt your CV, however many will question the likely hood of a GWR King turning up given that there's been little visible progress on the models announced by yourself in September 2013 (i.e. 3 and a half years ago).

I appreciate that it's been a case of the OO gauge J94 funding the N gauge projects but that model has been and gone but we've seen little progress on the N Gauge models announced years ago. At the same time you've announced a class 92 and now a King. It feels to some of my modelling friends as though you're just land-grabbing with no news. Put some CAD images of the class 17 on your website along with some images of the pre-production Mermaids (we don't all go to TINGS or Warley!) and the neigh-says will be quiet for a week or two!

Happy modelling.

Steven B.

Offline DJM Dave

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2017, 05:11:32 pm »
Hi Steven,

As the good captain said in "dads Army" 'pay attention at the back' ;-)
Those pictures have been on my web site and RMWeb for Yonks

The pre prod mermaid in Dutch was in BRM at least, that I know of, and the class 17 cad cams have been up since day 1.

I'm truly shocked if it is the case, that people haven't seen them, as the 17 cad also appeared in ALL the magazines too.
The info is out there, but I guess I need to do better on that count.

As for the crowdfunded 92 and king, these are different beasties altogether and I have again said time and again they have no bearing or influence on the core business. They don't rely on myself to find the money to produce,and will only get produced if enough modellers want them.

For the 92, I'm glad to say that enough do.
For the King, it's very encouraging.

However, and I cannot say this often enough, if the money or the business was there I could quadruple my work flow and still have a margin to spare. This is why I am always looking for more business, helping others get established, giving ideas out to third parties to take forward if they can etc.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

Offline Nick

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2017, 05:37:39 pm »
Hi,
I think I should clarify any things for you.
Whilst I would normally agree wth your comment, it forgets my provenance and history.
I was , in a previous life, brought into my previous company as the product development manager by George Smith, who gave me pretty much free reign.[snip]
Hi Dave,

I knew your background, although not in as much detail as you just went into - and I was conscious that what I was posting was likely to upset you.

You explained the outline of your business plan to me, and the part the J94 played in it, at RMWeb Live in Coventry. (A good show, BTW. Shame that there was never another, but what really made it good (low numbers) was why there wasn't, I presume.)

But that was, what, Autumn 2014? Time passes and the gloss goes off ideas. It's not fair, but it's just the way life is.

That's not to say I wouldn't buy a King, and I've been wanting to buy a Clayton since you announced it.

Perhaps I'm just not temperamentally suited to crowdfunding, perhaps I'm just tired of stuff being announced (not just by you) and then disappearing into Neverland for years. It's not personal.
Nick

The perfect is the enemy of the good - Voltaire

Offline DJM Dave

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2017, 05:44:30 pm »
Hi Nick,

Thanks for the mail.

Yup it was a long time ago, and obviously things haven't gone to plan.
However, guess what? Yes I'd do it all over again knowing what I know now, and going through the same struggles?

Why? Well idiocy might be an answer, but in all honesty, with the 'raft' of future N gauge models I'm planning right now, I want to support the scale....my scale. I love N, and it mortified me to have not produced the models I announced those years ago.......yet.
It will happen, that's a fact. 4 years this summer I started and I'm still here. No help from anyone, no underwriting by manufacturers, no part crowdfunding. Ive done it myself and it's something that I am extremely proud of.

Heck if the exchange rate improves I might be making more N gauge models more quickly too. roll on the class 23 and Mogul. (Yes yes, and the  J94, and the Hudswell Clarke, and the etc etc etc) lol

Cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

Offline PLD

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2017, 09:01:58 pm »
While the King is of no interest personally, if it is a decent model I could see two or three potential sales within our group.

With regard to any DJM product, I'm another in the 'Wait and See' category... I'm afraid I'll not commit money on a non-refundable basis until I can see and handle a (N gauge) model to judge the construction and performance for myself. Without that tangible evidence no-one can fairly judge either way. My first DJM purchase will almost certainly be a standard range model purchased via a reputable retailer, not the much riskier for the customer crowd-funding route. That stance is me being cautious and would apply to any newcomer not just DJM.


Moving forward, I designed the Q1, 67, Hymek, 9f, B1, B17, A3, A4, 56, 58, 52, 22, 33, 26, 27, Britannia, 86, 121 + 122 bubble cars, Terrier, Pannier, HST, DVT, manor, Hall, 28xx plus the OO gauge sentinel, 10000, 22, 52, Beattie. Plus a few wagons Of which quite a few contributed the the 16+ model of the year awards won in my time there.
I introduced 6 pin DCC, light bars, close coupling mechanisms, magnetic couplers and yes 'working' semaphore signals into the N gauge market.
I personally think there are some very good model in that list Dave, and have defended them in the past, the catch-22 is that (on some other fora) some of your most vociferous supporters roundly condemn those models as they do pretty much anything that says Dapol on the box... sighting those as a reference may or not be productive with certain sections of the audience :hmmm:

Offline PLD

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2017, 09:16:37 pm »
Can you give a couple of clarifications regarding the spec ,please Dave...
Quote
Specifications
Coreless motor
Next 18 DCC decoder socket
Sound speaker fitment space in tender
Loco drive onto rear axle from motor
Presumably those add up to Motor located in the loco; Speaker and decoder space in the tender?

Quote

Specifications
traction tyres on rear axle but with non traction tyres replacement axle set in box
12 wheel pick up (tender and loco)
Loco drive onto rear axle from motor
Is that 12 wheel pick-up out of the box or is it 10-wheel in standard configuration with traction tyres on the rear drivers and 12-wheel achieved by swapping out the tyred axle? If so, given that the tyred axle is also the driven axle, what will that entail in terms of disassembling coupling & connecting rods?

Offline newportnobby

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2017, 09:34:50 pm »
roll on the class 23

Amen, brother. It was always going to be my DJ Models 'test' loco as there's nothing else been announced that's taken my fancy so it's a shame this one always seems to be at the back of the queue.
(Little do Dapol know their BoB will also be the true 'make or break' of me buying their steamers)
I still say I'll be in the market for weathered Mermaids should they be in the pipeline somewhere :D

Offline DJM Dave

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2017, 09:38:18 pm »
Lol, I thought 'the king is of no interest to me personally'?

Motor in the firebox
12 wheel pickup although the rear driver being tire fitted out of the box won't pick up as well as the other wheels.

Align driving wheels to marks on back of driving wheels and keeper plate
Remove rear driver hex bolts, con rod angles away from wheel ( as it's a separate con rod connected to the Centre driver) keeper plate easily removable with 2 screws, lift off, align wheels to mark on keeper plate, clip in and reverse process.

That's just off the top of my head mind, this may change as the chassis design gets looked at in depth.

Cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

Offline PLD

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Re: DJM Announcement - Crowdfunding King Class
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2017, 11:20:49 pm »
Lol, I thought 'the king is of no interest to me personally'?
Yeah... I don't want one myself, but it's of interest how they cope apart because (i) if the design works well, you'll probably repeat it on other models that are of interest and (ii) if other club members buy them, guess who's likely to get the job of fixing them...  ;)

 

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