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Author Topic: European N gauge goofs  (Read 2289 times)

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Offline Gordon

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European N gauge goofs
« on: January 29, 2015, 11:25:32 pm »
Thought I'd kick off a new thread where we can between us  identify and discuss European N models that have some element of innacuracy about them. This could be anything from livery goofs to incorrect detail right down to down right wrong!

The idea is based on my 'room 101' of European N gauge models. This is not intended to be pedantic or judgmental as such, as all modellers have there own preferences, and most of us enjoy a bit of freelance and modellers license here and there.

However it can be a costly business if a newcomer buys a model which they want to be an accurate representation only to find it is not.


I'll kick off randomly with my all time annoying 'French' outline model which is the Fleischmann SNCF UIC coach, which crop up with alarming regularity second hand. They were produced in the era when there were huge production runs of all the standard issue models.

The said model is inaccurate as it is an SNCF paint job on a pure DB pattern UIC coach. SNCF UIC stock was very different.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Online weave

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2015, 01:29:57 am »
Hi Gordon,

As soon as I started reading this I thought I'll bet he start with the SNCF Fleischmann ones.

I've got a couple of Fleischmann RENFE coaches which are probably a paint job over something German (prob same coach) but Arnold hadn't started doing their Spanish stuff as far as I know when I started, but I like them anyway.
,
Ibertren can be a bit toy like and the older ones seem too short.

Will look at my stock as lots are in boxes as space is tight til we move. Hope to give better answers soon.

Out of interest, what do you think of the Arnold rapido SNCF 3762 green/cream (UIC I think representation) coach and the Atlas/Rivarossi SNCF green coach?

Also have PM'd you a couple of times regarding the possible sale of a Wasteels coach but with no joy. Maybe didn't work.

Also, will Artrain ever come back?

Thanks for putting up with my questions. Good thread. Will be interesting to see what the other guys have to say.

Cheers weave


Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2015, 11:18:51 am »
We should not forget all those shorty coaches from the old, old Lima range which were also in the main inaccurate paint jobs on inaccurate coach types, and all 20-30mm too short.

Unfortunately they also made short length versions which were partly accurate such as the SNCF Gril Express and SNCF Cinema coaches - they were compressed but had the correct window layouts and roof profiles and grilles, reasonable bogies and accurate liveries. They also reputedly did a shorty SNCF ambulance coach of the Vu style, but I have never seen even a photo of one.

I have both the gril express and cinema cars which I keep for old times sake.

Mike

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Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2015, 11:27:05 am »
Also have PM'd you a couple of times regarding the possible sale of a Wasteels coach but with no joy. Maybe didn't work.

Also, will Artrain ever come back?

Thanks for putting up with my questions. Good thread. Will be interesting to see what the other guys have to say.

Cheers weave


Transmodia own the Artrain moulds and are producing new versions with improved bogies.

Years back I sacrificed about a dozen original Dynam UIC coaches to make an SNCF exhibition train, and some Wasteels couchettes. While we are talking about goofs the expo train had a brown base colour rather than the more grey brown applied to the original coaches.

http://le-forum-du-n.forumotions.net/t6097-quelques-realisations-des-annees-1980s

Think I also have a couple of Artrain Wasteels couchettes somewhere near.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 11:28:32 am by woodbury22uk »
Mike

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Membre 0196. Association Franšaise des Amis du N (AFAN)

Offline Gordon

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2017, 12:06:08 am »

I've got a couple of Fleischmann RENFE coaches which are probably a paint job over something German (prob same coach)

Not as bad as the SNCF livery, as Renfe 8000 class coaches are a straight DB version, even down to the fact that they do not take advantage of the wider Renfe loading gauge, hence the minden-deutz bogies stick out beyond the width of the coach body.


.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline dickrowland

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2017, 06:59:14 am »
The bogies on my Fleischmann SNCF 'so called' UIC coach, acquired years ago when I didn't know any better, are not Minden-Deutz. Can anybody identify this type of bogie. The coach body is wrong but perhaps the bogies are correct for the SNCF.

Offline BlythPower

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2017, 11:36:46 am »
There's Fleischmann's old 2nd class DB coaches - model 8111 (green) and 8192 (blue/beige). They use the same body shell as the 1st class coaches (8111 and 8191). The firsts correctly have 11 compartments/windows. The 2nds should have 12 compartments/windows but also have 11.  :-[ The newest models (8643xx) have thankfully now been corrected!

Offline Gordon

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 12:30:15 am »
A new goof from Fleischmann is one covering my pet hate - the Epoch designation.

Their 2017 re-livery of the old Roco Brissoneau & Lotz diesel in red as a 'Swiss' loco is OK but it is given "Epoch IV/V".  The actual loco was used in Switzerland for only about 4 years on lease, arriving in 1993 well after the end of Epoch IV 

The manufacturers, while laudibly trying to be helpful, can actually put one off the scent with an inaccurate Epoch designation.


.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline Gordon

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 12:35:04 am »
The bogies on my Fleischmann SNCF 'so called' UIC coach, acquired years ago when I didn't know any better, are not Minden-Deutz. Can anybody identify this type of bogie. The coach body is wrong but perhaps the bogies are correct for the SNCF.

You are spot on.

I do actually have a couple of the inaccurate coaches, bought just for the bogies! Useful as spares or swap rounds for other SNCF N gauge stock, such as Lima DEVs.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline dickrowland

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 02:42:34 pm »
What were the differences between DB and SNCF UIC coaches?
With regard to the Fleischmann coach I presume that the bogies are French-outline, but can the coach body be modified in any way (apart from with a hammer!)?
Just curious.

Offline dickrowland

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 02:54:39 pm »
From the Wikipedia entry I presume square corner windows and shorter border length, amongst other things. It would be useful to know if anything can be done.
I suppose I could replace the bogies with MD50s and respray the body, but I have enough older-specification, still inaccurate, Fleischmann Bms already.
A couple of SNCF coaches, suitable for my early-1970s Moselbahn layout would be useful.

As for goods stock, I did find a pair of suitable LS Models 'STEF' wagen a few years ago, the correct type with wood sides and very prominent roof ventilators as confirmed by a SNCF Society member, but they were :
a: not cheap
b: hard to find.

Offline Hiawatha

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 07:51:06 pm »
For a start, SNCF never had UIC Type X coaches (length 26.4 m), only Type Y (24.5 m), so the model should have a length of 153 mm instead of the Fleischmann's 165 mm. Only later, with the Eurofima Type Z, did the SNCF also buy 26.4 m coaches. The coaches are just German types (and not very good models of them either) painted in a different livery which for the 1970s was common practice.

Offline Gordon

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 12:48:11 am »
From the Wikipedia entry I presume square corner windows and shorter border length, amongst other things. It would be useful to know if anything can be done.
I suppose I could replace the bogies with MD50s and respray the body, but I have enough older-specification, still inaccurate, Fleischmann Bms already.
A couple of SNCF coaches, suitable for my early-1970s Moselbahn layout would be useful.

As for goods stock, I did find a pair of suitable LS Models 'STEF' wagen a few years ago, the correct type with wood sides and very prominent roof ventilators as confirmed by a SNCF Society member, but they were :
a: not cheap
b: hard to find.

My hearty recommendation: don't waste your time!

As Hiawatha says, very different designs

Proper SNCF UICs were made by Dynam, later Artrain. There were several available second hand at the big Lille show the other week


.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline Hiawatha

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 10:21:02 am »
A couple of SNCF coaches, suitable for my early-1970s Moselbahn layout would be useful.


How about the Bruhat coaches from Roco? Not quite today's standard but still nice if you don't need things like a coupler kinematic.

http://www.spur-n-datenbank.de/cb_ergebnis.php?s_kategorie=Personenwagen%20-%3E%20frz.%20Mitteleinstiegwagen,%20Bruhat&s_hersteller=Roco

Offline Gordon

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Re: European N gauge goofs
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 01:07:03 am »
A couple of SNCF coaches, suitable for my early-1970s Moselbahn layout would be useful.

How about the Bruhat coaches from Roco? Not quite today's standard but still nice if you don't need things like a coupler kinematic.


No, Bruhats were not the sort of SNCF coach to appear abroad.

UIC or DEV stock would be best for the OP's requirements, as they often travelled outside France, on normal international services, pilgrimmage trains or French servicemen's trains serving the French occupation zone of West Germany, and the Moselbahn was in the French zone.



.
Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

 

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