the never ending battle for reliable running...

Started by bluedepot, September 11, 2011, 06:48:24 PM

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bluedepot

ok....

every piece of track is wired to the bus wires...

i've cleaned all the track with ipa on a cloth

i've cleaned the wheels with ipa on a cloth

my locos are not ancient ones but all new bachmann or dapol ones...

yet still i can't get slow running into my depot yard over a few points...

and to make matters worse i still get short circuits with my dmu and class 73, even though i have checked the back to backs using a gauge...

after seeing the excellent n gauge yesterday at TINGS i'm now back to reality with my never ending battle....

any ideas?


tim


poliss

What kind of points are you using? Insulfrog or electrofrog? Here are some of my links for point wiring, with animated diagrams.
http://www.009.cd2.com/members/how_to/wiring.htm
http://www.proto87.com/turnout-wiring-for-DCC.html

bluedepot

hi

ta for the links

i use electrofrogs, they are all just wired from the toe ends. i know i should have wired the frogs seperately and made the modifications to the points, but that all seemed too complicated...

the points are not painted and have been very well cleaned...


tim


tim

Zebra

Have you tried cleaning the backs f the wheels and pick ups?
Got to say I find the class 04 my most frustrating loco.Same as you,everything clean and it still stalls all over the place.I am suspecting it does not have enough weight because if I balance a pair of metal tweezers on the roof it runs perfectly!

Steve.

longbridge

Not that this will solve your problem but I know a lot of model railway fans that use only diesel locos because they run better over points.
Keep on Smiling
Dave.

Newportnobby

Quote from: Zebra on September 11, 2011, 11:13:06 PM
Have you tried cleaning the backs f the wheels and pick ups?
Got to say I find the class 04 my most frustrating loco.Same as you,everything clean and it still stalls all over the place.I am suspecting it does not have enough weight because if I balance a pair of metal tweezers on the roof it runs perfectly!

Steve.

Guess what? One of my old ABC loco books shows an 04 at Finsbury Park - and there's a pair of tweezers on the roof :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:

Dr Al

Quote from: Zebra on September 11, 2011, 11:13:06 PM
Have you tried cleaning the backs f the wheels and pick ups?
Got to say I find the class 04 my most frustrating loco.Same as you,everything clean and it still stalls all over the place.I am suspecting it does not have enough weight because if I balance a pair of metal tweezers on the roof it runs perfectly!

Steve.

Check all the pickups are making good contact with the wheel backs and are clean - this is a common issue with the 04, but once rectified it should be one of the star performers for slow speed and pickup.

Regards,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

"We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces."Dr. Carl Sagan

Dr Al

Quote from: bluedepot on September 11, 2011, 06:48:24 PM
and to make matters worse i still get short circuits with my dmu and class 73, even though i have checked the back to backs using a gauge...

In specific locations? If so then the trackwork wants checking that none of the point blades are bent such that they can touch the backs of the wheels passing - this can happen.

Otherwise you need to check that the track is flat and laid well, has no drops in voltage (common around the point blades - really the best thing is to have these electrically switched also). Check each loco is picking up from all the wheels it should - if not investigate individually if the pickup in question is not making perfect contact or is being hindered by dirt.

Slow speed running is entirely possible in a reliable manner in N, both steam and diesel, and anyone telling you otherwise is doing something wrong!!

Best Regards,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

"We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces."Dr. Carl Sagan

Dr Al

Quote from: bluedepot on September 11, 2011, 10:58:24 PM
i know i should have wired the frogs seperately and made the modifications to the points, but that all seemed too complicated...

No modification is required. Simply wire from the controller (or toe end of the point if in a tree of turnouts) through the electrical switch (eg accessory switch on point motor) and use a connection soldered to the underside of one (or both for redundancy) of the rail joiners on the frog to make the frog connection. Point remains unmodified and this also makes it easier to remove in future if it fails, as compared to having unsightly dropper wires soldered to the sides etc.

There is absolutely no need to make any cuts etc in rails around the frog - I've seen this mentioned and demonstrated on one of the lists - it's a good way to add complexity and risk destroying the turnout - it is not required and also cause more bumps and running problems - it's a pointless thing to do IMHO.

Best Regards,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

"We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces."Dr. Carl Sagan

Sprintex

Quote from: Dr Al on September 12, 2011, 11:03:26 AM
Check all the pickups are making good contact with the wheel backs and are clean - this is a common issue with the 04, but once rectified it should be one of the star performers for slow speed and pickup.

I can only agree with this  :thumbsup:

My 04 was terrible to start with, stalling all the time and needing a giant finger to prod it into action again!! When I checked the pickups I found that only 2 out of the 6 tags was actually touching the back of the wheels - quick clean and adjustment later and all six are now in contact with the wheels and never had a problem since  ;)


Paul

mr magnolia

just drifting along with this thread, I'd be interested to know if any of you lot have added additional weight to the Farish 04 or 03?  I have very sharp curves on the headshunt lengths on our layout, and the 04, while performing admirably on the straight, sits and whirls its wheels on the sharper bits when I'm asking it to pull longer 4 wheel wagons. (admittedly these are spanish wagons and thus oh so non prototype, but heigh ho!)

As noted somewhere above, a bit of extra weight works wonders, but where would you squeeze that in to be invisible? (its a DC layout, so no decoders to worry about)

Although perhaps the track cleaning section suits this better, I can note here that by far the biggest improvement to running on our layout has been the careful application of a very powerful Dyson suction hose to remove all stray hairs and grit etc.  Sadly its also removed at least one of the horse riders and a small cow, and these antics will have to stop no doubt once we have some ballast down, but meantime the Dyson is the bees knees!

polo2k

Quote from: mr magnolia on January 21, 2012, 12:36:31 AM
just drifting along with this thread, I'd be interested to know if any of you lot have added additional weight to the Farish 04 or 03?  I have very sharp curves on the headshunt lengths on our layout, and the 04, while performing admirably on the straight, sits and whirls its wheels on the sharper bits when I'm asking it to pull longer 4 wheel wagons. (admittedly these are spanish wagons and thus oh so non prototype, but heigh ho!)

As noted somewhere above, a bit of extra weight works wonders, but where would you squeeze that in to be invisible? (its a DC layout, so no decoders to worry about)

Although perhaps the track cleaning section suits this better, I can note here that by far the biggest improvement to running on our layout has been the careful application of a very powerful Dyson suction hose to remove all stray hairs and grit etc.  Sadly its also removed at least one of the horse riders and a small cow, and these antics will have to stop no doubt once we have some ballast down, but meantime the Dyson is the bees knees!

couple of thoughts. if the frigs are not fed seperately, you must ensure that the point blade makes good clean contact with the appropriate running rail.

when hoovering, use some tights ovr the end of the hoover so that you can inspect the spoils before discatding

For additional weight on models try getting hold of lead shot (as in shotgun) or even steel ball bearings will work. In either case PVA or suprglue will gold them
Cheers
-Ash-



The only way to guarantee failure, is not to try

bbdave

I spent a very long time a few days ago cleaning my points with IPA and a cocktail stick making sure the blades etc were clean and straight my new farish hall ran fine over them and my 04 i was happy as a pig.
A day or two later on running the Hall over my sidings slowly it stopped! touching the switch slightly had no effect so pushing the blade with the cocktail stick softly, started her moving again the 04 exactly the same trouble it is very frustrating.

I do admit since ballasting etc. the switches themselves don't emmit the same loud click as they did new as i suspect maybe some PVA crept under but they do still switch fully as i can get them working.

Does DCC solve any of theses problems as i believe it runs a constant 14v so equivalant to full tilt on a DC controller as opposed to trying to get 3v or so to the loco?

Or are my loco's shorting as all my turnouts are electrofrog?

Dave

longbridge

I have always found adding a fishing sinker inside rolling stock helps with trains running smooth and staying on track.
Keep on Smiling
Dave.

karm

Dcc will not solve the problem, making a positive electrical connection indepedantof the point blades will solve point contact. Having said that my set up is exactly as you describe, because i did not use the advice before laying and ballasting the track.

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