Hattons enter n gauge market as manufacturer

[Paul-H]

I hope this one will be a success for them, and perhaps their next one could be the Garrat's replacement, the 9F, we so need a more up to date modern manufactured 9F

[joe cassidy]

I think the buzz about Hattons' Garrett has spurred Rails of Sheffield into action.

Got an e-mail this afternoon informing me about progress with their home-brewed locos/wagons.

Nothing in N gauge unfortunately.

Best regards,


Joe

[daversmth]

 Hattons say none survived but is this not one here?

https://www.scienceandindustrymuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/beyer-peacock

I remember seeing this hugely impressive loco many many years ago and seem to recall it was used in South Africa.
Or is this a similar but different loco ?

[martyn]

Beyer-Garrett locos survive around the world (especially in Africa), but not the LMS version, nor the LNER solo loco.

There is a non-working 0-4-0+0-4-0 at Bressingham museum, and working narrow gauge ones on the Welsh Highland railway, to name some others.

martyn

[PLD]

Hattons say none survived but is this not one here?

https://www.scienceandindustrymuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/beyer-peacock

I remember seeing this hugely impressive loco many many years ago and seem to recall it was used in South Africa.
Or is this a similar but different loco ?

The answer is in your question... Yes there are numerous Beyer-Garratts survive including many of those built for service in Africa but none of the 33 built for the LMS (which the Hattons model specifically represents) survive.

[JonHarbour]

We have one in running order in Australia - number 6029

[tunneroner61]

perhaps their next one could be the Garrat's replacement, the 9F, we so need a more up to date modern manufactured 9F

What makes you say that? I thought the Dapol 9F was state of the art, but not always the best runner (like other Dapol tender drive locos) due to the tender drive. Perhaps I am mistaken. My Hall, Grange and 38xx are OK.

[JonHarbour]

perhaps their next one could be the Garrat's replacement, the 9F, we so need a more up to date modern manufactured 9F

What makes you say that? I thought the Dapol 9F was state of the art, but not always the best runner (like other Dapol tender drive locos) due to the tender drive. Perhaps I am mistaken. My Hall, Grange and 38xx are OK.

I suspect the question is more abut the haulage than the look of the model. The Dapol model looks superb, but its haulage capability isn't prototypical. I have two, but they can only pull about 25 16T mineral wagons each. 9Fs ran on at least one block working of the type B tankers a la RevolutioN trains - I'd like to see a Dapol 9F pull such a train!

[Paul-H]

Personally I don't like the Dapol drive setup, the drive shaft linking the motor in the tender to the loco is just horrible and prone to throwing the shaft if not super careful, it has a poorly designed front pony that is prone to derailment, even with the modified one fitted, and it can't pull the skin of a rice pudding, mine used to spin it's wheels with 10, 7 plank wagons.

By today's standards it's positively ancient, just like all of Dapols tender drive locos, perhaps they will 're work it when they work the bugs of of their new loco drive they are struggling to develop for the promised BOB class they are working on.

Paul

[Dr Al]

Personally I don't like the Dapol drive setup, the drive shaft linking the motor in the tender to the loco is just horrible and prone to throwing the shaft if not super careful,

As one of the 9F's (when originally released) harshest critics, I think some of this is bordering on unfair.

The driveshafts only come out if poorly handled or lifted from the track - they don't spontaneously throw.

The bogie design (originally) was indeed poor - but this was more down to the steamroller wheels and large flanges that caught on point blades, frogs, and the slightest bump. Dapol addressed this on the second run 9Fs and thereafter both with completely redesigned wheels and a springing mechanism to ensure the bogie tracks properly. As someone who had a first batch 9F that couldn't do a lap at all without derailment, the revised design was a complete transformation - never a problem.

mine used to spin it's wheels with 10, 7 plank wagons.

That implies a problem in QC. I had a later batch one that didn't haul as many wagons as others, and oddly, after resetting the loco pickups, it was far better - I suspect they were pushing the rear two driver wheels to one side.

I have noticed some most recent production models where the chassis is clearly slightly bowed and they see-saw on their central drivers. These can be turned down to fix, though it does imply the chassis mouldings were slightly out.

Having said all that, none of these couldn't haul a minimum of 25 wagons, so 10 indicates a clear problem.

Not sure a 10 year old design is ancient in this context - Farish were producing the same design motor chassis for 25 years!

Cheers,
Alan

[tunneroner61]

Thank you Dr Al for a very objective view of the 9Fs mechanical issues.

I'm afraid that I get a bit miffed when someone rubbishes a product without objectively justifying their point of view.

[Paul-H]

Ok so I am obviously not allowed to have an opinion based on my personal experience. I will keep them to myself from now on, just remember without criticism they will never improve their products.

Bye

[tunneroner61]

You can hold whatever opinion you want and make it public. Just take note of what I said about justifying that view.  My remark yesterday was referring to your post -

I hope this one will be a success for them, and perhaps their next one could be the Garrat's replacement, the 9F, we so need a more up to date modern manufactured 9F

- not the subsequent one of today where you described your experience with the 9F.

[RichardBattersby]

I think the news is absolutely incredible. It's not something I'd ever see as RTR. Some peoples' posts imply the model might not go ahead unless there are enough pre-orders. I can't see anything that implies this on the website so I'm guessing that this is going ahead regardless? It would be great to see someone put sound in theirs.

[Dr Al]

just remember without criticism they will never improve their products.

Dapol have had criticism on their 9F - a lot. They listened to much of it. How do I know? I was one of those levelling that criticism after my £90 first batch 9F bought new was found to be such a poor performer, and emotion very much overtook restraint.

Sadly, the problems you cite are either those that are plainly not Dapol's fault (handling of locos with driveshafts), have been addressed (front bogie), or are likely to be QC, not design related (haulage).

I understand the frustration - I went way overboard with that on my complaints with the first 9F. But (as I learned) one has to be properly objective in understanding if a problem is widespread, design, handling, QC or other cause, before immediately decreeing the design as "ancient" or lacking.

Voicing problems is highly encouraged, but I think we should just state facts rather then emote it with emotion - it may be a simple fault that's easy to correct, and not indicative of every other model.

Cheers,
Alan