How to run a roundy roundy layout

[Chris Morris]

The replies to running prototypical trains were really interesting. Thanks to everyone who replied. One issue that has been discussed at our club is whether visitors prefer to see the same train running again and again or whether each train should get to go round just once and then a different one sent round.

This pole is about what paying visitors to exhibitions would prefer to see. I am assuming that an in line storage yard is being used so running each train round just once would give pretty much the same frequency of trains running as letting the same one go round and round. We already know that the most important thing is to keep trains moving and not run a "Sunday Service".

Obviously, if the operator is talking to a visitor it is best to let the same train keep going round. Sometimes, even if you are running a different train each time, you need a break and need to let one just go round a few times so there cannot be hard rules about this.
I'm just interested to get others views on what they want to see. Again there is no right or wrong answer, just differing opinions which are all valid.

[austinbob]

If I were running my own trains (not at an exhibition) then I would prefer to see them run a few laps in order to represent a reasonable distance travelled.
At an exhibition its nice to see a number of different trains represented in a reasonably short space of time. You don't want to be hanging around waiting for the next train to appear. There's all those bargains to look for as well as watching trains!!

[Newportnobby]

Having a roundy roundy layout where the main running lines (1 'Up' and 1 'Down') each have a 4 road fiddle yard the intention is to run each train once and then change to another one, either by electronic/automated means or by the hand of Nobby on a control panel.
However, sometimes it's just nice to relax with a glass of my favourite tipple (Southern Comfort or a decent single malt) and let the train run round several times.
Ergo, I have voted for a combination of 1 & 2, although my rules don't apply to exhibitions.

[daffy]

My guess is that exhibitors can probably never get this conundrum right. There will always be someone who complains about/is not happy with/or really loves the way a layout is run.

Variety, as they say, is the spice of life, but too much variety can be irksome, especially if you arrive at an exhibit just as a favoured loco disappears into the fiddle yard behind the screen, not to be seen again for an hour or more.

Or you might arrive just in time to see a set circle monotonously at the same speed over the same turnouts for what seems like an age.

Balance, in all things, is what I consider to be the best approach, so I find it hard to vote specifically for any of the options here as it all rather depends upon the exhibitors stock level, the size of the layout, how many visitors are viewing at any one time, how many people are running the layout, whether it is manually or computer operated or assisted, and whether or not the operator is engaged in deep and happy discussion with an admirer of his creation. Other variables will also apply I am sure.

As I commented on your other thread Chris, it just has to be interesting.

An interpretation of 'interesting' could last a lifetime of debate!

[Byegad]

Sunnisyde has two loop lines and an end to end running parallel to them for a goodly part of the loops.

All three tracks are joined by scissors crossings so I can run trains from one loop to the other and onto or off the outer loop to the end to end. So I often have two trains looping around while a train runs end to end then the outer train will be run to the end to end and a train on the end to end sent around the outer loop to eventually run on the inner loop and into the station on that loop. 

Quite often the train running on the loops can be there for 30 minsutes or so.

[Calnefoxile]

This is a difficult question to answer actually.

In my opinion, at an exhibition then the layout has to be run as prototypical as possible, therefore 1 train after another, however at home or if just running for fun at a Club open day, then anything goes.

As most of you know BMRG own Hedges Hill Cutting, which is a very small layout, and at exhibitions we run it 1 after the other, which doesn't take that long to run through the sequence, when there are people in front of the layout. However if there's no one there, or someone is taking a particular interest in one of the trains i.e. the Royal Train or Gatwick Express set, then I'll leave that running whilst I chat to them about it.

Cheers

Neal.

[Skyline2uk]

I like this thread.

Some thoughts:

1) Somebody had already said an exhibition layout should be as prototypical as possible, which for me adds some extra complexity:

In real life if you are standing at a location and see a train pass, unless you wait for what could be several hours, you won't see it again. When you do it will almost certainly be traveling in the opposite direction.

How to replicate this on a layout? Do you have an identical train (same loco / set number) ready to go on the opposite loop? Is it a HST / multiple unit and therefore have the same order of coaches or is it loco hauled? If loco hauled do you imagine it's been turned or run-round? Do you have a loaded freight heading one direction and another identical set but empty of load running in the other direction?

2) Also already mentioned is interaction with the public. Now you could save on money for multiples of stock by actually reversing a train (more money on points, track and electrics) BUT I know from experiance how hard route setting becomes whilst having a conversation.

Certainly whilst running HHC I can just about manage with running a sequence of trains in and out of storage loops whilst talking. Even then, with manual points, errors can happen.

For me, a happy compromise might be two circuits, each with multiple storage loops which can be set with (ideally) a single button press. If any freight is run with loads, an empty version could run in the opposite direction (with a different loco) and the running sequence said to represent "a period in time".

That way, nobody would expect to see a train returning as you are only representing, say, 3 hours of a given timetable / day.

Skyline2uk

[Sprintex]

This poll is about what paying visitors to exhibitions would prefer to see.

Well sticking to the above (which some seem to have missed?) I find it really annoying at exhibitions when the same train is left running round and round while the operators have a natter, scratch their 'nads,, or generally ignore the public through sheer laziness. One train one circuit, even if it means people waiting to see their favourite come round again, as stated above that's what would happen on the real railway.


Paul

[kirky]

On Northallerton, Id always intended that we should have a timetable and that trains should go through in a particular order, one after the other in exhibitions. There are four fiddle yards with four running lines and its possible to have a very varied timetable as per the prototype.
Having said that, we have found it very difficult to stick to the timetable and we usually end up just running what we like. This can sometimes lead to good humoured banter as one operator demands track access whilst some one else is rescuing a derailment because they cant operate the points properly.
Northallerton was designed to be versatile in operation, and if we want, one person can leave three trains running round three of the lines whilst s/he changes the other train. Having mobile handsets (in our case iphones with touchcab) is a godsend which enables versatile operation.

Cheers
Kirky

[Chris Morris]

One train one circuit, even if it means people waiting to see their favourite come round again, as stated above that's what would happen on the real railway.


Paul

I always used to subscribe to this school of thought but I'm now wondering whether running a train round 3 or 4 times is better because it gives viewers more time to see/appreciate it. To put this in the context of my layout trains are on view for a relatively short period of time - between 14 and 40 seconds depending upon the train. There is no station so nothing stops (well not intentionally). This. Is probably why I am asking the question.

[Chris Morris]

Perhaps slightly off thread but interesting nevertheless, here is a quote from the Warley NEC 2016 exhibitors manual.
"Operation. Will all exhibitors please remember that they are at the exhibition to entertain and to engage with our visitors as and when required."

[ScottyStitch]

This poll is about what paying visitors to exhibitions would prefer to see.

Well sticking to the above (which some seem to have missed?) I find it really annoying at exhibitions when the same train is left running round and round while the operators have a natter, scratch their 'nads,, or generally ignore the public through sheer laziness. One train one circuit, even if it means people waiting to see their favourite come round again, as stated above that's what would happen on the real railway.


Paul

Agreed.

When I arrive at a layout, in an ideal world I'd like to see a train pass once (or stop and then continue as is applicable),  followed by the next train and then the next (in either direction) in some sort of logical and set sequence.

Even more ideally, if a train enters from the left and exits stage right, eventually I'd like to see (and it makes sense for) that train to return from the right and exit stage left (obviously much later in the sequence). This is preferable to Tornado and train moving left to right and then a short while later in the sequence, Tornado and train moving left to right.........How did it get back without passing me?!

I appreciate not all fiddle yards are set up for that type of operation, etc. But you did ask

[Buzzard]

Chris,

One of the layouts at my club is your standard twin track main line each with four storage tracks.

Each storage track can hold anywhere from one really long train to five short ones.  Normally it's about 11 trains per direction with at least one short freight that from time to time is reversed into a siding on the scenic section.  In terms of time for one complete rotation of stock it's about 30 to 45 minutes per direction.

What I haven't mentioned, but ought to, is that the layout in question is O gauge and BIG in terms of size, 47' x 27' according to Railway Modeller.  Not that size should matter as the principles of operating should be the same whatever the gauge.

To operate the layout it takes two shifts of five people.  Two drivers completely hidden behind the scenery, one signalman directly opposite the signalbox (but imagining they're inside it) and two roamers around the front to field questions from the punters.  Everyone is "qualified" on each position so you get a variety of duties over a weekend.

Slow freights can spend ages getting round once and that brings up the age old subject of prototypical speeds.  Some layouts hammer their stock around at shows and that sometimes doesn't leave time for interaction with Joe Public.

The layout in question will be at Warley 2016 so have a look if you've got a bit of spare time.

[port perran]

When I take Trepol Bay to exhibitions I run it on my own. I have capacity to have 16 trains set up to run so I run one round, into the fiddle yard then change it for another.
Of course, the problem comes when someone wants to chat so I simply let the existing train run round whilst I'm chatting. Works for me.

[Dock Shunter]

I don't mind seeing the same train running around a layout at exhibitions.
The only criteria is that the scenic side of the layout has to be of a very high standard to keep my interest.
Littleton Curve is one of my all time favorite layouts and is a simple oval,but the scenic work is fantastic and i could watch it all day long.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcg8iGEF92I