Should we run prototypical trains?

[Chris Morris]

There would certainly not have been any brightly coloured five or seven
Plank wagons around after the Second World War. I don't like to see these wagons pulled by BR liveried locos because it is just so wrong. PO wagons always seem like a turn of century sort of thing. I don't know how
manywould have been seen in the 1930s and what state they would have been in.

[Chris Morris]

Thanks for the interesting contributions. My layout will be running stock that fits between 1963 and 1967 which is a shift forward of about three years. Surprisingly there were quite a few changes over this short period.  My crimson and cream coaches are now surplus to requirements and a Brush type 4 and Western with full yellow panel have been added to the stock. There will still be the odd steam working but this will be fairly rare as steam had all but disappeared from South Devon by the end of 1963.
As for other layouts, I do like to see an effort to run trains that fit reasonably well together. All  to often a really great layout is spoiled (for me) by mixing stock from completely different eras. I also dislike seeing unweathered stock straight out of the box as it just looks too plasticky. I think the look of the stock as well as the way it fits together is important. Of course if a layout is of a subject that I have no knowledge, such as Japanese trains, I will love it because I am completely ignorant of what it should look like.

[silly moo]

I bought most of my brightly coloured wagons when I first started out and knew very little about railways. As my layout depicts a preserved railway I can get away with brightly coloured wagons in good condition.

I usually put together a really brightly coloured train to go behind Thomas the Tank Engine at shows. 

I still have enough wagons to put together a reasonably prototypical train too.

I notice that Farish put what look like suitable wagons in their sets but Hornby used to do a set with a blue diesel and brightly coloured private owner wagons no doubt because they are appealing to children.

No wonder beginners get confused.

[Newportnobby]

No wonder beginners get confused.

Not just beginners, Veronica

[violets49]

I bought most of my brightly coloured wagons when I first started out and knew very little about railways. As my layout depicts a preserved railway I can get away with brightly coloured wagons in good condition.

I usually put together a really brightly coloured train to go behind Thomas the Tank Engine at shows. 

I still have enough wagons to put together a reasonably prototypical train too.

I notice that Farish put what look like suitable wagons in their sets but Hornby used to do a set with a blue diesel and brightly coloured private owner wagons no doubt because they are appealing to children.

No wonder beginners get confused.

No, probably not! According to Ronnie Cockburn of the CRA,  Most Private Traders  waggons were painted Grey, Black or red oxide. Lettering was either plain white or black. What was sometimes seen was that one waggon may have been given extra decoration if a constructor was trying to show off their ability. As an example there was a set of Alloa Coal coy lithograph sides produced, I think by Hamblings which was yellow with black lettering. According to Ronnie, Alloa Coal Coy. waggons were red oxide with white unshaded lettering. Also, not directly relevant but Ronnie insisted that these were correctly called "Private TRADERS Waggons" as few were actually owned by the companies but rather by leasing agencies or even the companies who built the waggons (Such as Pickerings and Hurst Nelson) who would then lease the waggons to the private traders. Ronnie researched this subject over many years with the intention of publishing abook on Scottish Private Traders Waggons' but due to health issues and advancing years the project has been taken over by another chap who published a similar book on English waggons. I believe the publication of the book is immenent. Check out the book on English waggons as well.

[Chris Morris]

I bought most of my brightly coloured wagons when I first started out and knew very little about railways. As my layout depicts a preserved railway I can get away with brightly coloured wagons in good condition.

I usually put together a really brightly coloured train to go behind Thomas the Tank Engine at shows. 

I still have enough wagons to put together a reasonably prototypical train too.

I notice that Farish put what look like suitable wagons in their sets but Hornby used to do a set with a blue diesel and brightly coloured private owner wagons no doubt because they are appealing to children.

No wonder beginners get confused.

I think models of preserved railways will become more and more popular. You can pretty much run anything you like. It can also be nostalgic . I remember working on the Severn Valley as a volunteer 46 years ago!

[martyn]

veronica;
I think there is more than a little truth in the comment that brightly coloured wagons are made to attract children.
One of the BachFar team told me that ISO containers were effectively the 'new' Private Owner vehicles for the modern era, being generally brightly coloured which they hoped might encourage children.......
Martyn

[PLD]

There would certainly not have been any brightly coloured five or seven Plank wagons around after the Second World War. I don't like to see these wagons pulled by BR liveried locos because it is just so wrong. PO wagons always seem like a turn of century sort of thing. I don't know how many would have been seen in the 1930s and what state they would have been in.

Certainly true as far as Coal / mineral wagons were concerned. They were 'pooled' under the control of the Ministry of Supply at the outbreak of WW2, after which maintenance was to the absolute minimum to keep the wagon usable and any repainting necessary would have been in austerity plain grey. In 1948 they were taken into BR ownership and any painting was in standard Grey (unfitted) or Bauxite (fitted). Often just a patch was repainted on which

Some specialised wagons such as tankers were a little different and branded examples could still be seen but would mostly have worked in 'block' trains so while bright colours would be possible, mixed colours were less likely.

[violets49]

If i can add another comment. Some pre groupingh railway companies frowned upon Private Traders waggons Most Traders waggons in the west of Scotland were registered on the Caley as the Sou West were not particularly friendly towards them. The NER was famously dead against them and carried coal in their own hoppers as unloading was by staithes or coal drops

[njee20]

I think models of preserved railways will become more and more popular. You can pretty much run anything you like. It can also be nostalgic . I remember working on the Severn Valley as a volunteer 46 years ago!

Always a slightly odd concept I think. If you want to run anything, then do, no need to justify it. Doing so under the auspices of "preserved railway" seems a bit odd to me! Not least as layouts are often then far more complex than any preserved railway would be! It could be done quite well - would be interesting to set one in a modern landscape, steam era stock juxtaposed with lots of modern vehicles and buildings. Never seen that though.

[Newportnobby]

Not least as layouts are often then far more complex than any preserved railway would be! It could be done quite well - would be interesting to set one in a modern landscape, steam era stock juxtaposed with lots of modern vehicles and buildings. Never seen that though.

I seem to recall Ollie3440 of this parish succeeded in this with his 'Sheaf Valley Railway'

[PLD]

If i can add another comment. Some pre groupingh railway companies frowned upon Private Traders waggons ... ... The NER was famously dead against them and carried coal in their own hoppers as unloading was by staithes or coal drops

As common carriers, the railways  couldn't refuse to move private owner wagons over their systems so despite a reluctance to take responsibility for the wagons, they would still be seen.

In the case of the NER, it wasn't so much anti privately owned wagons as such but pro the efficiencies to be gained by larger capacity wagons and mechanised loading/unloading that lead to the use of the 18 and later 20 ton hoppers in place of the traditional 8-12 ton wagons for coal traffic... There were still numerous examples of pvivately owned wagons of other types to be seen on NER metals.

[violets49]

But they could, and did refuse to register them

[Steven B]

As far as an exhibition layout is concerned:

1. If a train is to terminate at a station and the loco run around before heading back where is came from, is it better not to fit tail lamps, or to have one fitted at each end of the train. Both are wrong as far as the BR Rule Book is concerned but which is the lesser of two evils? I'm leaning towards fitting lamps to both ends.

2. Is it OK to have Blue-Ribbon quality models in the same train as Poole era models at an exhibition? I'd like to model a WCML that is made up of a Mk3 DVT, Mk3 buffet and Mk2 FO & TSO coaches. I have the passenger carriages as Poole era models (albeit upgraded with blackened wheels and interiors) but would have to run them with the much more modern Dapol DVT. Is this an acceptable compromise or would there be less grumbles from the public if I forked out for a rake of the new Farish Mk2Fs as and when they're available?


Are there any other modelling compromises that would be frowned upon by exhibition visitors?

Happy modelling.

Steven B.

[Chris Morris]

As far as an exhibition layout is concerned:

1. If a train is to terminate at a station and the loco run around before heading back where is came from, is it better not to fit tail lamps, or to have one fitted at each end of the train. Both are wrong as far as the BR Rule Book is concerned but which is the lesser of two evils? I'm leaning towards fitting lamps to both ends.

2. Is it OK to have Blue-Ribbon quality models in the same train as Poole era models at an exhibition? I'd like to model a WCML that is made up of a Mk3 DVT, Mk3 buffet and Mk2 FO & TSO coaches. I have the passenger carriages as Poole era models (albeit upgraded with blackened wheels and interiors) but would have to run them with the much more modern Dapol DVT. Is this an acceptable compromise or would there be less grumbles from the public if I forked out for a rake of the new Farish Mk2Fs as and when they're available?


Are there any other modelling compromises that would be frowned upon by exhibition visitors?

Happy modelling.

Steven B.

I don't think it is possible to say as each of us will see things differently and will find that different thinks grate on us. For instance someone who spent their career working on catering coaches will notice if the the coach next to the catering coach is incorrect but the rest of us won't.

Most layouts don't have tail lamps, many don't have loco lamps.

I use the latest coaches at the front of my trains but a couple of them have a few Poole  coaches at the back. This is on the presumption that most people will be concentrating on the loco end.

It's all about doing what is right in your eyes, and doing the best job you can to entertain.