A Question About Buying Kits

Tank · January 01, 2014, 10:57:58 PM

A poll to help us gauge in the future how members would like to buy kits/models.

upnick · January 01, 2014, 11:03:37 PM

First two apply to me Chris although i like to kitbash & add plasticard where needed or even combine kits or a mix of all three on occasions

ParkeNd · January 02, 2014, 12:40:11 AM

If it's a kit then it should be just that - a kit. Not half a kit, nor a finished painted item. Imagine buying a model aircraft kit and having to add your own wings - engine yes but wings no.

red_death · January 02, 2014, 01:16:13 AM

While it can help with convenience (particularly if some of the necessary parts are difficult to get hold of), personally I would do what suits the manufacturer best! I see no point in a small manufacturer tying up cash in stocks of parts made by others. Comparisons with aircraft kits produced by large manufacturers are irrelevant for reasons of scale. Whether we like it or not we rely on a number of excellent cottage industry suppliers.

To complicate matters further some people will want different wheels/couplings etc, though I accept that is only a small minority. Where it starts to get even more complicated would be catering for transfers for vehicles which saw large numbers of liveries.

I'd rather have a greater choice of kits and have to find some bits myself than have a smaller number of 100% complete kits.

ParkeNd · January 02, 2014, 01:23:33 AM

Quote from: red_death on January 02, 2014, 01:16:13 AM
While it can help with convenience (particularly if some of the necessary parts are difficult to get hold of), personally I would do what suits the manufacturer best! I see no point in a small manufacturer tying up cash in stocks of parts made by others. Comparisons with aircraft kits produced by large manufacturers are irrelevant for reasons of scale. Whether we like it or not we rely on a number of excellent cottage industry suppliers.

To complicate matters further some people will want different wheels/couplings etc, though I accept that is only a small minority. Where it starts to get even more complicated would be catering for transfers for vehicles which saw large numbers of liveries.

I'd rather have a greater choice of kits and have to find some bits myself than have a smaller number of 100% complete kits.

A. It's a bit unusual - customers doing what is more convenient for the manufacturer - and manufacturers finding it not worth sourcing parts from other suppliers. Sounds like a recipe for a short existence and a quick death.

javlinfaw7 · January 02, 2014, 02:20:33 AM

A model kit should be a complete kit of parts , transfers are an item that I would prefer to have included but could be sourced independently as not every one will wish to build the same item but a wagon kit with out a chassis or a locomotive without funnel or roof or any major parts is not a kit but an aid to scratch building

ozzie Bill. · January 02, 2014, 04:40:36 AM

Red D is making a good point. If the parts are readily available from a 3rd party, then it is cheaper for the manufacturer and helps them stay viable. However, the inconvenience to us as consumers may put us off purchasing. Who knows what's best. Cheaper price, but some inconvenience or a higher price? I voted for complete kits, FYI, as postage can be cruel so spoils any savings. Cheers, Bill.

Sprintex · January 02, 2014, 04:45:56 AM

I've never bought a kit yet, but after seeing davieb's Cartic-4 set thread I'm tempted. Personally I wouldn't even consider a kit unless it came with everything needed bar paint and transfers

Paul

OwL · January 02, 2014, 09:20:41 AM

My kit building in N gauge is very, very limited and I have not hidden my personal feelings on kits compared to RtR in past threads.
There is alot of kit builders out there in both N gauge and other scales and I respect that.
To that end I feel a kit should be complete with decals (minus paint and glue)

I think previous points made about manufacturers tying up cash on items sourced from a 3rd party needed in a kit are valid however when you look at it from the customers point of view then I think people want 100% of the kit parts included in their purchase. I think kit producers realise this and 'bite the bullet' in terms of associated costs in producing kits in order to appeal to customers In offering the complete package.

AndyGif · January 02, 2014, 09:41:17 AM

There would be worse than buying a kit that requires specific extra non optional parts, say wheels, motor chassis or etches/decals, putting the kit away for a bit (monthes or years) and then finding you can no longer get the required bits to finish it.
We've all seen the messages on the forums has anyone got x in their bits box. :'(
If you loose the orginal bits then it's tough luck that you cant get replacements.

David Asquith · January 02, 2014, 09:47:08 AM

I have never made a railway related kit, except for plastic or card buildings, but would like to. What puts me off is having to source all the parts needed which are not included in the kit. As a total novice I would be concerned I would order the wrong bits. As previously said cost of postage is also a consideration.

Dave

red_death · January 02, 2014, 09:55:10 AM

Quote from: ParkeNd on January 02, 2014, 01:23:33 AM
It's a bit unusual - customers doing what is more convenient for the manufacturer - and manufacturers finding it not worth sourcing parts from other suppliers. Sounds like a recipe for a short existence and a quick death.

As I explained, I think the primary flaw in that argument is that all manufacturers are equal. When you are talking about very small (often 1 man band) hobby manufacturers then the choice may be between producing something to share with others or not producing it as a kit at all - it is cheaper and easier for the small manufacturer not to bother making the kit!

If that means as a customer I have to accept that I only get certain parts and I have to do a bit of work myself then so be it - I am still better off than having no parts at all.

Of course I am slightly playing devil's advocate, but having spoken to a lot of small model railway manufacturers these are real issues. If we demand everything we may well end up with nothing...

Cheers, Mike

Geoff · January 02, 2014, 10:16:32 AM

I think price comes into it, if a kit looks ok then so be it and it is acceptable to sell then the manufacturer will do that to keep costs down, surely if you want perfection then you will add your own expertise to the kit, most folks myself included only want the basics and to enjoy our model trains.

Oldman · January 02, 2014, 10:30:03 AM

OK I do other scales but as most of my stuff is now kit built, I am happy to source couplings elsewhere. I tend to use one make only and buy them in packs of 10

It is nice to have wheels included but then quite a few people who buy RTR will swap wheels for better quality ones.

If Peco stop making their wagon chassis and kits a lot of people would be stuffed.
Locomotives are a bit different- I tend to check a chassis is available before I would buy the kit.

OK some kits cost as much as RTR when you cost up every thing but you also know you have that "individual" piece of rolling stock.

MikeDunn · January 02, 2014, 11:01:30 AM

As someone who has made a few brass kits (emphasis on the few !!!), my preference is to get a complete kit - all the parts are there. OK, I accept paint won't be (it's not like AirFix is it ?), and that odds are I'll have to source decals - but I expect everything else unless clearly stated otherwise up-front.

And this follows on ... as long as I'm told that items aren't in but are available from xxx or yyy I will be (relatively) happy ... I expect, in this instance, that I'll be told which mfr(s) do the items I need and what the part number is; I do not expect just the mfr name - or even just that "you'll need to get your own wheels from somewhere, & I'm sure someone has done some decals that can be put on" - that is totally unacceptable (and yes, I do have at least one kit mfr in mind ! On querying this, "no, we don't know what wheels would be needed" and "not heard of anyone doing suitable decals, but someone must have" ...

No, they did not get my order !)

While I'm being very unreasonable (from some mfrs point of view) I also expect decent instructions ! A bad photo of the kit & a small sheet of scrawled notes, poorly photocopied, aren't on ! In this day & age, there is no reason why a decent image of the kit can't be included, numbered with identifiers. Or that harder aspects can't have more detailed instructions. I also do ship modelling, and the instructions there are extremely good and detailed, and have been for years - many model rail mfrs can learn from these other mfrs !

To put it bluntly to model rail kit mfrs - you want my money ? Produce something I'm happy with, else I'll use your competitors - and not necessarily in this hobby !

Mike