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Author Topic: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning  (Read 2589 times)

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Offline Train Waiting

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2017, 08:08:28 pm »
Second radius is 263.5mm or 10 3/8"

Third is 298.5mm or 11 3/4"

Fourth is 333.4mm or 13 1/8"

All the best.

John
'Why does the Disney Castle work so well?  Because it borrows from reality without ever slipping into it.'

(Acknowledgement: John Goodall Esq, Architectural Editor, 'Country Life'.)


The Table-Top Railway is a train set trying and failing to be a model railway.

I believe that train sets and model railways are fun.

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2017, 09:30:56 pm »
Thanks for the details John.

Regards
Richie

Offline MrDobilina

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2017, 01:38:06 pm »
@Ben A huh, I never even thought to hide a decoupler magnet in a crossing before. Thanks for that image (page 3)

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2018, 08:13:05 pm »
Evening all,
Well six months on, and I thought I'd better post an update!  In some respects, lack of time has been the issue, but the more and more I think about it, thats really just an excuse!  The big problem has been trying to focus and nail down exactly what I wanted.  I know I am something of a stickler for railway operations (having worked in the industry, doing things right seems to stick!) and the big issue I kept coming up with was would my WCML proposals sit right, be workable, maintain my interest, and be realistic. 

Around Christmas I also realised that part of my problem was that I am still a loco-hauled fan.  I like the modern units, nothing wrong with them per say (although dont ask me to do London - Edinburgh when the 800s take over!) but for an operations point of view, loco-hauled held more interest.  So I sat back and took a long hard look at my proposed layout, and decreed that there were elements that would have worked but there was more that would not achieve what I wanted.

So I stepped back, took a couple of months reading books, watching DVDs and studying quail map books! I think I've now finally reached an operational sweetspot.  Probably something that has been said many times before by many people, just before they changed the plan!  :P

Given that I have a wish to portray part of a line, not just one station, and am fortunate to have the room that I have, I think I'm going to look to portray a couple of sections of the Ayr line - probably the section from Ayr to the east end of Falkland Yard, followed by Kilwinning station with the Hunterston/Largs branch coming in, and finally the big centre board holding a variation of Mossend Yard, giving me the ability to run electrics.  Set in the late 1980s/early 1990s, giving the opportunity for 20s, 26s, 37s, 47s, 56s together with 85s, 86s, 87s and 90s - possibly the odd 31 and 60 as well.  I need to research what electric locos are actually available / on the drawing board for N.

My thought is that it allows the Hunterston iron ore/coal traffic to be represented, the Ayrshire coal traffic (which ironically was my traffic when I worked on the railway!) speedlink freight, and through a junction between Kilwinning and Mossend, assume that long-term engineering work is diverting all WCML passenger traffic via the Yard and into Glasgow Central, which opens up further opportunities.  There is the loco-hauled passengers to Stranraer, plus DMUs and possibly 26s on Glasgow - Ayr workings.  Plenty of running potential and shunting opportunities at Mossend and Falkland Yard, especially with the auto couplers that @Ben A suggested earlier in the thread.

As you may have gathered I'm looking at a long-term project, and one that I can just keep chipping away at.  The plan will put the Ayr - Falkland Yard down one 20' length, Kilwinning and the WCML junction down the other 20' length, and Mossend Yard and Depot on the centre 20' length.  The fiddle yards will be located beneath the main layout so no scenery space is lost.  My thought is that there will be three/four four coach Mk1 sets for Ayr traffic, two seven coach Mk1 sets for Stranrear, and probably three or four Mk2/3 set of eight-10 coaches for WCML passenger workings.  The biggest vehicles will no doubt be HAA wagons, that im aiming to run in sets of 26-28 wagons (only slightly short of the 31 we used) with the flows inbound to the collieries having empty weathered sets, and the outbound having loaded weathered sets.  The WCML addition, will also allow Freightliners to Coatbridge to operate behind pairs of 86s!

Its going to take some time to lay the track and slowly acquire the rolling stock, most of which may come second hand.  Im looking for DCC but probably not DCC Sound at this stage, im going to concentrate on building up the stock list and acquiring the track and signalling.

Any thoughts/comments would be welcome. I've decided I'm going to make a start this month, having put this off for long enough!  Sorry for the long wandering post!

Online njee20

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2018, 08:27:50 pm »
Wasn’t 36 the norm on HAA rakes?

Sounds like a great plan, and a colossal space. Very envious.

Re: electrics - 86s are available, there’s a batch coming shortly including Intercity Executive - you probably want to snap one up. Railfreight Distribution has been done. 87s and 90s are very old Farish toolings, 90s come up quite often in RFD triple grey. 85s you’re out of luck though.

Bachman have announced a new OO gauge 90, so maybe it’ll be scaled down. Don’t hold your breath. 

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2018, 09:35:43 pm »
Thanks njee,

Yes your right it was 36 - im getting mixed up, there was one flow where the set had to be shorter, cannot for the life of me remember where now.  Something to do with run-round limits.  Ah well, with 36, I might try and get up to 29 or 30 wagons to keep it realistic.

Thanks for the comments, im very lucky with the space available, and the more I think about it the more im convinced that I can do it justice with N gauge!  I'll keep my eye open for the 86s coming up.  I was thinking of a couple of blue ones, and a couple in main line so that could be an expensive task!  The 87s and 90s I'll keep my eye open for - I know the 87s were sometimes paired with 86s on the Dee Marsh steel trains, but I think 90s were just coming in in the early 90s on freight.  Had a feeling 85s I'd be lucky to see - still they had mostly gone by my time period, so wouldn't be a huge blow.

The one exception on the electric fleet may be an 88 if Dapol appear with one - I have to say they do look good in my view!

Online njee20

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2018, 09:43:07 am »
Sure I've read that Dapol have the rights to do the 88, so you may be in luck, but it'll be a good while.

There's a blue 86 coming too. Dapol did a batch as a special commission for C&M Models IIRC, but there's a 'main release' batch coming. They're nice models, shame you weren't looking 6 months ago, they were perpetually being punted out for £50!

A bit of compression in train length doesn't show - I run 28 (I think) PCA tankers instead of 36, and there comes a point the eye doesn't really notice, if it looks right.

Offline msr

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2018, 10:21:34 am »
@DannyBoy205 on these pages has recently introduced a layout based on Lancaster at the time the electrification masts were being erected, so may be of interest to you:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=40911.15

This was professionally built for a recently deceased enthusiast and so a PM to Dan might bear fruit, especially if your own layout has not yet progressed beyond the planning stage. The model of the station itself only got as far as laying out the platforms but the approaches over the river look great and the fiddle yard is really impressive.

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2018, 05:19:21 pm »
@njee20 - Thanks, useful to know.  Sounds about right on the former ones tho!  If anyone sees one, let me know :). Interesting what you say about 28 odd wagons, that seems to work with my thoughts.

@msr I hadn't seen that so thanks.  Very sad circumstances, but wow what a stunning layout scenically.  I've sent him a PM.

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2018, 11:17:58 am »
Hello all,
Well a quick further update the ‘Ayrshire’ plan is progressing, I really should rename this thread I suppose! Some track has gone down in the few months since the last updates, but a combination of summer, stupid heat, family and work has somewhat delayed things.

Being New to N gauge, I was hoping to ‘gauge’ peoples views on one aspect of the layout. One corner will aim to replicate Newton-on-Ayr, for those that don’t know this location, visualize (if you will) a double track coming past a small TMD, at the end of which a single track connection from Killoch and Maunchline Jn comes in on the east side on a ‘tightish’ but low speed curve and under a road bridge. Immediately after a connection goes off which gives access to Ayr Yard on the west side, and a very tight 20mph curve on the west side to Ayr Harbour.

Now the question is on my model, the main line will run along the nearest edge of a two-foot wide board, with the tight curve to Ayr Harbour needing to do a 270 degree curve in about 20 inches of space, from the near side to the rear of the board, also dropping down to access a fiddle Yard on the lower level. Now trains will generally be pairs of 20s or 26s, or single/double headed 37s with 28HAAs in tow. Obviously this is low speed, as per the real thing, the question being is that too tight? The inner side of the curve will be loaded dropping down, the outer side curve (slightly larger radius) will be empties out of the Harbour. My plan is to lay it with flexi-track.

Any thoughts/comments welcomed. I will try and get the final track plan up soon and keep this thread updated.

No movement on the rolling stock front as yet apart from acquiring a Class 20 for testing purposes!

Richie

Offline crewearpley40

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2018, 12:39:22 pm »
i remember the ayr pilkington exhibition train around mid 80s and class 40 / 47 hauled stranraer - euston with mk1s / 2s

Online njee20

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2018, 01:51:57 pm »
A 10" radius curve you mean? I would say that yes, that is too tight really.

Most things will run around it, particularly 2-axle wagons like HAAs, but it'll look very 'trainset' like, with a gradient as well you may find stock struggles.

If you can find a few more inches it'll do much better - even 12" radius would be alright.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2018, 02:04:08 pm »
As I understand it the Ayr Harbour will be twin track so while the outer would be 10" curves the inner would be even tighter. I'm sure the locos will round the curves OK (albeit looking sheepish as they do) but think you're on a hiding to nothing hanging 28 wagons off the back on an incline :no:

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2018, 03:52:18 pm »
@njee20 and @Newportnobby: Thanks guys, you've confirmed my thinking.  The 'look' of the curve as mentioned by @njee20 doesn't concern me too much as the reality is that the real think is not too railway like! 
See this shot from the 1980s or this more modern image.

But I was thinking it was asking a bit much - may look to see if I can get another six inches on the board at that corner so that the inner curve can be 12" radius.  I am also thinking it may be worth making the incline a straight section out of sight, so the curve does 180 degrees, rather than 270, and is flat rather than on a grade.

For reference, this is a wide view, taken from the station footbridge, showing Ayr Harbour to the left, and Ayr Falkland Yard to the right rear with the arrival road in the foreground.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/6601577385

However, did learn one thing, while looking for the above couple of pictures, I didnt realise 86s and Mark 3s went to Ayr!
[url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/8211539559]https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/8211539559] [url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/8211539559[/url]

Another reason for a Dapol 86!

Richie
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 03:56:52 pm by NW2017, Reason: corrected links »

Offline NW2017

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Re: North West England - Modern Image Layout planning
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2018, 03:53:17 pm »
i remember the ayr pilkington exhibition train around mid 80s and class 40 / 47 hauled stranraer - euston with mk1s / 2s

Thanks for that - I'll do some digging and see what I can find for references on that.  Was that the train that had the Sealink liveried Mk1s on it?

Richie

 

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