High Frequency track cleaners unsuitable for Dapol locos.

[Elvinley]

Dapol Dave has stated on RM Web that HF track cleaners are unsuitable for Dapol locos. In the instructions for the A4 it says that it is not to be used with a HF track cleaner. Gaugemaster state that they are harmless. What do forum members make of this. I have been running my layout with a HF2 for years and have only switched it off with the DCC fitted Peco Collett so far. I have not noticed it affecting my Dapol locos adversely, but has damage been done to them?

[red_death]

The way I see it is that there are two issues - the electronic components used and the motors.

I can't see that blasting components with high voltage spikes will be good in any shape or form.

Motor - you can't use them with a coreless motor (which Farish are about to introduce to some of their new steam engines IIRC).

[Elvinley]

I have just spoken to Gaugemaster about this and they say that this loco has not been tested with the cleaner so to err on the side of caution. Apparently it depends on the quality of the motor involved.

[EtchedPixels]

Its not just the motors (in fact I'd be less worried about the motors than some of the other bits). High voltage spikes break down silicon devices over time. All the modern locos have got  lots of electronic goodies in them even without DCC fitted - so I'm not really surprised by this warning.

Alan

[Elvinley]

It's all very worrying really. I have used all my locos with my HF2 which Gaugemaster say is 'harmless'. They do not suggest that it is unsuitable for N gauge.

Check out the description: http://www.gaugemaster.com/modules.html

[red_death]

It is not really in Gaugemaster's interest to say do not buy this for N gauge!

Personally I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole...

[Dr Al]

The other component to worry about is the wheel surfaces. I used Relcos in OO for a while and it caused quite notable damage to the wheel surfaces with the plating coming off. I think this was due to the arcing that was occurring (which is visibly imperceptable to the eye). It didn't remove dirt either, simply helped locos run over increasingly heavily dirty track.

In the end I realised that proper hands on cleaning was better as you still had to do it anyway, and removing them stopped wheel damage.

Modern N gauge locos have so many pickups that I don't see the need for this type of cleaner. I rarely need to clean wheels, only the track, and that not very often. Stranglely N gauge current collecting wheels seem to keep themselves clean somehow in my experience - it's coach and wagon wheels that always get very dirty.

And electronic cleaners don't guard against this either.

Cheers,
Alan

[Paul B]

I have recently had a Dapol B17 back from BR Lines after the motor burned out. I rang them up and was chatting about the repair, and he advised not to use feedback controllers on Dapol loco's either. (Don't ask the reason - it was too technical for my brain!  ) Luckily I haven't started on my own layout yet, but the controller I have ready for it (a Morley controllers Vesta N) specifies that it isn't a feedback, and the club's big layout also has't got feedback controllers on it, so I am OK.

[EtchedPixels]

Dapol long ago said you shouldn't use feedback controllers. It's a bit more complicated in truth.

Most of the old design feedback controllers are not designed for very small or coreless motors. There are some that are designed for that job which can be used, but the older designs date back to big chunky motors.

Alan

[painbrook]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the problem with Relco and N gauge is it damages the track (pitting) which is acceptable in larger scales but a big problem with are small rails. What it does to modern N guage loco motors I don't know and I don't think I'll experiment. Cheers john.

[Elvinley]

Are the Relco unit and the HF2 the same circuitry?

[EtchedPixels]

Similar but not I believe identical - the Relco was the original as featured on Tomorrow's World and such like, the Gaugemaster is later, I guess when the patent expired.

Same theory of operation.

Alan

[Elvinley]

Stranglely N gauge current collecting wheels seem to keep themselves clean somehow in my experience - it's coach and wagon wheels that always get very dirty.

Now I thought this was the cleaner doing its job - I do feel a bit let down by this item if it doesn't do much and is potentially damaging locos.

[Elvinley]

Similar but not I believe identical - the Relco was the original as featured on Tomorrow's World and such like, the Gaugemaster is later, I guess when the patent expired.

Same theory of operation.

Alan

For some reason I thought the Gaugemaster cleaner was superior and a safer option. Maybe I was taken in by the description of it being harmless. If indeed it can do so much damage, then the description should be changed.

[Dr Al]

Stranglely N gauge current collecting wheels seem to keep themselves clean somehow in my experience - it's coach and wagon wheels that always get very dirty.

Now I thought this was the cleaner doing its job - I do feel a bit let down by this item if it doesn't do much and is potentially damaging locos.

No. I run standard controllers with nothing fancy. Coach and wagon wheels always pickup dirt.

I don't mind too much as these are easy enough to clean and need doing not that often -  reckon they almost act like cleaners in themselves given how little I've even needed to do to keep loco wheels clean.

The potential wheel/track damage put me right off for evermore. I think calling these 'cleaners' is misleading. They should be 'aids to conductivity' perhaps as when I used them in OO everything got just as physically dirty.

Cheers,
Alan