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Which Flangeway clearance would be preferred?

Large 1mm Flangeways, most RTR locos & stock can run through unmodified
109 (54.2%)
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Total Members Voted: 197

Author Topic: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?  (Read 181259 times)

littlegs, longbow and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline polo2k

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #60 on: January 11, 2012, 09:43:51 am »
Would there be any way to produce the larger of the 2 anf then offer inserts that would close up the tolerances. This way a new modeler can go for the safe bet, then when ready get started on improving wheels and at that time, install the filler pieces.

The thinking behind this would be that if I built the points to one standard on day one, I would rather live with it, than relay all my track with different frogs when I want the improvement.
Cheers
-Ash-



The only way to guarantee failure, is not to try

Offline red_death

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #61 on: January 11, 2012, 09:53:17 am »
Wayne

Personally I would go for whatever works with the majority of new wheels (thouhg that will probably require you deciding on a target B-to-B).  I don't mind adjusting the odd wheelset B-to-B, but if I have to do it wholesale to get things to run through the finer tolerances then I probably wouldn't bother and I would just start changing to 2mm FS for everything.

Cheers, Mike



Offline polo2k

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2012, 09:59:15 am »
Without extinguishing a theoretical bonfire here, is it possible that the very compromises that you are being forced to consider are what have defined the technical specifications?
If thats the case, then, as mentioned above, just pick a target BTB and get tooling I guess. as you have mentioned this latest decision has doubled your tooling costs.
While this may be an issue, I imagine that your business model will include retaillers, what about when you get wholesalers on board. Can you sustain sufficent margin to satisfy each stage within the chain (40%GP each soon mounts up!). What im trying to say is, make sure that once this venture grows, you can still make money serving the bigger players demanding higher discounts.
Cheers
-Ash-



The only way to guarantee failure, is not to try

Offline thos

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2012, 08:36:11 pm »
While this may be an issue, I imagine that your business model will include retaillers, what about when you get wholesalers on board. Can you sustain sufficent margin to satisfy each stage within the chain (40%GP each soon mounts up!). What im trying to say is, make sure that once this venture grows, you can still make money serving the bigger players demanding higher discounts.

Don't overtrade!  I'd stick to web sales, perhaps with our trading members' shops if you can negotiate a decent deal, and then through such as Hattons.  I can't see selling through high street shops ever being profitable.

Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2012, 09:11:00 pm »
Hi,

These would be sold directly via our website and probably not via retailers. This offers the best price to the end user. This is the business model I have used for the last 7 years with my current business (www.shoot35.com) and is a model which works well both for myself and my customers.
Thanks,
Wayne.

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Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2012, 12:06:33 am »
This will double my tooling cost for producing etched frogs, but I believe this is the best way to go, what do you guys think?

The price of metal these days I'd have thought the tooling cost was going to be a fairly small part of it. nearly £40 + vat for a full sheet 10thou now, was only £17 about 3 years ago !
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2012, 10:16:03 am »
The tooling cost of etchings is far less than the tooling of the injection moulded parts, so its not all bad :)
Thanks,
Wayne.

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Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2012, 05:39:48 pm »
Itís been a week since I have made a post but I am still working hard on this :)

I have received laser cut base samples this morning, but itís not that good. I chose Polypropylene when I really should have chose styrene. The result is slightly warped edges and melted areas.

I should get better results from styrene; however, I think laser cutting may not be the best option. I think I am going to get these milled instead.

The advantage of the laser cut base is that a turnout kit would not be 'handed' meaning it could be built as a left or right handed point.

Going milled, I believe I should keep a solid base and only mill the sleepers 2/3rds into the material. This will give much more strength but does mean that I will need to order both left and right hand versions.

I was going to meet up with the toolmaker tomorrow for the injection moulded plain track base and turnout chairs, but he has had to reschedule for Wednesday.

I will keep you updated :)
Thanks,
Wayne.

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Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2012, 07:10:16 pm »
I should get better results from styrene; however, I think laser cutting may not be the best option.

Styrene is a nightmare to laser cut - the fumes are both dangerous and fog the laser lens without special filters. Some of the big outfits can do it. The sharpest cleanest I've seen laser cut is still wood. Rowmark also cleans well but is near impossible to glue so nigh on useless for a lot of things.
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2012, 07:16:36 pm »
Yeah I agree, I believe milling will be the best option for this.
Thanks,
Wayne.

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Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2012, 04:03:51 pm »
Hi Guys,

Bit of a visual post this time :)

Below is what I think is the finished CAD design for the plain track bases. I have modelled in chair detail like bolts:


I am fairly happy with these but would like comments.

Attention then 'turns' to turnouts. My original design was a laser cut styrene base, but samples proved that laser cutting is probably not the best way to go due to warping and melting. Notice the holes for locating the chairs & rail.


So I decided that a solid milled base would prove much better and stronger. Below is the current design for the base. It is 1mm thick overall, with 0.3mm webbing:


The holes are location holes for the chairs, the chairs have a pin in the bottom to fit into the holes on the base:


Below are some images of what a completed turnout will look like. This is using 0.77mm flange way clearances:


And once ballasted:


So this is where I currently am. I am happy with the way it is coming along. I now need to think about how the turnout bases will finally be in terms geometry - lots of work still to do :)

Anyhow, let me know what you think so far, guys!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 10:53:34 am by Wayne Kinney »
Thanks,
Wayne.

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Offline polo2k

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Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2012, 04:58:29 pm »
looking good!
the chairs look fairly heavy. might it be possible to use an underscale inner chair a la Code 55.
Cheers
-Ash-



The only way to guarantee failure, is not to try

Offline Mr chapman

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Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2012, 05:49:49 pm »
I like what I see  :) How long do you think before I can get my hands on a sample of normal track? How will the points work? I take it they are not sprung. So you would need a motor to hold them in place? If so will there be a hole drilled for a motor in the tie bar? I cant see one on the cad work. Im looking at this for my layout im planning.
DCC southern modeller

Offline thos

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Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2012, 06:54:45 pm »
Looking very good if surprisingly chunky.  I would urge you to have a range of diamond crossings to match the turnouts, giving standard separation between tracks.  Those that want to have a different separation should add plain track or do some cutting.

That is what lets Fasttracks down.

Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #74 on: January 22, 2012, 09:26:02 am »
looking good!
the chairs look fairly heavy. might it be possible to use an underscale inner chair a la Code 55.

The chairs represent bullhead rail chairs and are the same size as the easitrac chairs. I am meeting up with Alan Smith (designer of Easitrac) and the toolmaker on Wednesday, so any issues with scale and clearances will be discussed

I like what I see  :) How long do you think before I can get my hands on a sample of normal track? How will the points work? I take it they are not sprung. So you would need a motor to hold them in place? If so will there be a hole drilled for a motor in the tie bar? I cant see one on the cad work. Im looking at this for my layout im planning.

I will ask the toolmaker for a lead time on Wednesday, I really am not sure. I have experience with ordering IM tooling for plastics and rubber, lead times can range from 21 days up to 2 - 3 months.

The switch rails for the turnouts are not sprung, no. You will need a slow action type point motor or servo, or even a manual 'wire in tube' type. Seep do a 'self latching' point motor, but I think it maybe too harsh for the somewhat delicate nature of these turnouts. We can pre drill the tiebar hole.

Looking very good if surprisingly chunky.  I would urge you to have a range of diamond crossings to match the turnouts, giving standard separation between tracks.  Those that want to have a different separation should add plain track or do some cutting.

That is what lets Fasttracks down.

It may look chunky because of CAD, these are the same dimensions as the 2mm Easitrac rail & chairs. Others have said that I should match peco geometry and turnout sizes. I can do this but would there be any patent issues i wonder?
Thanks,
Wayne.

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www.britishfinescale.com - Home of fiNetrax Code 40 Track System

 

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