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Poll

Which Flangeway clearance would be preferred?

Large 1mm Flangeways, most RTR locos & stock can run through unmodified
102 (54.8%)
Finer 0.8 - 0.85mm Flangeways, RTR locos & stock will need back to backs checking with a Gauge
84 (45.2%)

Total Members Voted: 182

Author Topic: 'Gauging' Interest- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?  (Read 153197 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline red_death

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2011, 01:09:08 pm »
Another vote for points only to 9mm as I don't see much point in duplicating Easitrac (which just works with modern N wheels). I would be looking very much at the P4 track company and Easitrac point kits. I wouldn't waste your funds on plain track not until you had cracked points anyway. The reality is that with a little bit of work I can already build Easitrac points to 9mm so to be a success I think they would have to be easier to build.

Despite my personal enthusiasm for finer scale points to go with Easitrac I fear you may have to accept that it will at least initially be a very niche product. To my amazement there are still people using Peco code 80 so the chances of converting them to code 40 may be slim!

Good luck!

Mike



Offline Formerly NtasticShop

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2011, 01:39:58 pm »
Need the cheaper plain track sales to help with the cost of tooling points. Sales will be limited if it is not a complete system.
I would be very cautious at this point, we need standards to be set by the NGS or you will be pulled in all directions.
Regards
Richard
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Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2011, 01:49:59 pm »
Thanks Mike,

I guess at the moment, people are choosing Peco code 55 (or 80)because, as far as they are probably aware, its their only option. I certainly wasn't aware of 'Easitrac' when I was first planning a layout. It only became apparent when I got interested in fine detailing and then found the 2mm Association.

I would imagine most are not aware of Easitrac, or if they are, put off by how daunting it 'may' seem.

My aim is to produce a solution that is simple to put together, with the hardest parts predone. If I can manage to advertise in a rail magazine or 2, and on here, I beleive N Gaugers will be far more aware of the option.
Thanks,
Wayne.

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www.britishfinescale.com - Home of fiNetrax Code 40 Track System

Offline red_death

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2011, 02:18:35 pm »
Need the cheaper plain track sales to help with the cost of tooling points. Sales will be limited if it is not a complete system.

Your point about plain track sales subsidising points is only correct if that is the business model chosen - the alternative is to make the price for the points self-funding! This has the added advantage of tooling investment not being spent on a product that already exists.

Complete system - this is a bogus argument.  We already buy bits and pieces from whichever manufacturer suits our needs. Your idea of a complete system may be very different to mine in terms of point geometry and types available.  To my mind the complete system argument is an argument for doing nothing.

I would be very cautious at this point, we need standards to be set by the NGS or you will be pulled in all directions.

I fear we might be waiting a long time for the NGS to set standards...



Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2011, 02:41:18 pm »
Its true that sales of the plain line will help pay the tooling of the turnouts, but also introduces its own tooling costs so is really only paying itself off initially:)

Thanks,
Wayne.

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www.britishfinescale.com - Home of fiNetrax Code 40 Track System

Offline Gordon

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2011, 02:53:47 pm »
I would only
 buy flat bottom rail as I don't generally do old UK subjects. This set me thinking about rail codes. For comparisons there is a very useful web page :

http://www.s-scale.org.uk/rails.htm

Sometime Publicity Officer, N Gauge Society

Swiss Railways Consultant
French Railways Consultant
European railway expert

First British N loco (in 1972): Farish GER Holden tank!
Modelling French N gauge since 1975
Modelling Swiss and German N gauge since 1971

Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2011, 02:57:02 pm »
Hi,

This is a very useful link as I am thinking about tooling for rail manufacture vs purchasing from Marcway. Many thanks!
Thanks,
Wayne.

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www.britishfinescale.com - Home of fiNetrax Code 40 Track System

Offline Dock Shunter

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2011, 03:09:46 pm »
I personally think your idea of plain track and points  is a good one.
It would be a natural progression from code 55 in the same way most people start off with set track then move on to code 80 and then to the finer looking code 55.
OK you may not get people keen on the idea of code 40 who are building their first layout...but as their knowledge and experience grows so will the desire for finer track and points.
Speaking personally i would be more inclined to look at a complete track system rather than scrabble about looking for different components.

I would love to be using code 40 track and points but as with many modellers i dont feel i have the skill to build pointwork....
What you are proposing Wayne would go a long way to getting many of us on the road to finer looking trackwork.......

Offline thos

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2011, 07:13:48 pm »
Going to thinner wheels would actually make the models look worse from many angles as it would effectively move the wheels inwards. Right now the overly narrow track and overly wide wheels mean that the outside facing surface of the wheels is in about the right place.

Alan

On reflection, you are right.  I was planning on using a constant K=8.15, so the trackwork would be OK but the overall width would be reduced so it would still look all wrong.  To use narrow wheeled bogies I would also have to use narrow driving wheels and adopt Fine:N, which would be as much work as 2mm.

I think the answer is to keep the wide wheels but avoid locomotives with leading bogies.

Offline Wayne Kinney

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2012, 12:03:02 pm »
Hi Guys,

Firstly, Happy New Year to you all!

I am looking into what flangeway clearances to use on fiNetrax turnouts. It is known that the RTR manufactures do not set the wheel back to backs very accurately, and there are also different standards (NMRA, NEM etc).

I have taken back to back measurements of some of my locos & stock, see below:

Dimensions in mm-
Dapol Terrier: 7.44 - 7.50
Dapol Q1: Drivers: 7.4 7.44 Tender: 7.35 - 7.43
Farish 08: 7.27 - 7.35
Farish Class 57xx: 7.22 - 7.25
Dapol B17: Pony: 7.49 - 7.51 Drivers: 7.43 - 7.49 Tender: 7.44 - 7.45
Dapol Britannia: Pony: 7.44 Drivers: 7.43 - 7.53 Tender: 7.40 - 7.46
Peco Collett: Drivers: 7.39 - 7.57 Tender: 7.57 - 7.67
Farish B1: Pony: 7.40 - 7.43 Drivers: 7.37 - 7.50 Tender: 7.34 - 7.39
Farish 4MT: Pony: 7.28 Drviers7.28 Drivers: 7.33 - 7.41 Tender: 7.33
Farish MK1 Coach (1): 7.16 - 7.19
Farish MK1 Coach (2): 7.28 - 7.30

As you can see, quite a large range from 7.16 - 7.67, even big differences on the same loco. To allow all the above to run through a turnout, we would need large 1mm flangeways (like peco).

So, I need to decide where to take this. Should I design turnouts with large flangeway clearances to allow stock to run through without modification, or do I tighten things up and expect modellers to set the back to backs to a set gauge? If so, I beleive we can get the flangeways down to 0.8mm, which will look much better.

I guess if a modeller is considering assembling a tunrout kit, they should be considering setting the back to backs anyway?

I would like your thoughts on this :) I have added a poll to this thread.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2012, 10:56:48 am by Wayne Kinney »
Thanks,
Wayne.

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www.britishfinescale.com - Home of fiNetrax Code 40 Track System

Offline H

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2012, 12:50:16 pm »
Need the cheaper plain track sales to help with the cost of tooling points. Sales will be limited if it is not a complete system.

Surely if you produce both points and plain track, the initial sales revenue from each will be required to pay off the tooling cost for each, not to cross subsidise. Secondly, I, and no doubt others, wouldn't buy 9mm plain track while Easitrac is available in a large range of concrete and wooden sleepers. The cost of tooling up for all those alternatives would be 'pointless' with such competition already available.

Thirdly, as already mentioned, this will still be very much a niche product and is unlikely to attract massive sales; sales will be limited regardless of what is available. N gauge enthusiasts are notorious for not wanting to assemble kits and undertake soldering which will be required for both points and plain track; in general they're RTR beasts. Some even find it difficult to cut flexitrack and put fishplates on, preferring setrack with fishplates already in place.

Finally, a complete system would be available; Easitrack plain track along with the new 9mm points.

H.

Offline H

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2012, 01:15:27 pm »
I would imagine most are not aware of Easitrac, or if they are, put off by how daunting it 'may' seem.

I'm not so sure about that. Easitrac has been discussed at length on many other very large internet forums, including RMweb and the N gauge yahoo group. It's also been featured in N'spirations, mentioned in the NGS Journal, and some clubs have even run workshops about using it and building the points. I'd be pretty certain that a good number of N gauge enthusiasts are aware of Easitrac.

I'd be more inclined to think that they are aware that it requires some assembly but not necessarily the extent. The issue will be explaining what is required assembly-wise with a new track system (especially if it comes in kits) in order to get it accepted and sold. And the snag is that in general N gauge enthusiastrs tend to be very much RTR inclined. 

Don't forget that the biggest demand/market for new track is from beginners when they want to 'build' their first train set (established enthusiasts tend to already have a layout) and they are the people with less modelling skills and experience who look for ease and simplicity for their first attempt.

H.

H.

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2012, 02:20:59 pm »
My opinion would be that pretty much anyone wanting such fine scale track would be capable of setting back to backs and the most accurate point work would be the most desirable when taking the time to assemble the kits.

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Offline H

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2012, 02:32:07 pm »
My opinion would be that pretty much anyone wanting such fine scale track would be capable of setting back to backs and the most accurate point work would be the most desirable when taking the time to assemble the kits.

Certainly agree with that; with the proviso of the flangeways being capable of accepting current modern wheel standards - NMRA RP25.

H.

Offline thos

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Re: 'Gauging' Interesting- New fiNetrax code 40 N Gauge Track System?
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2012, 03:09:13 pm »
My opinion would be that pretty much anyone wanting such fine scale track would be capable of setting back to backs and the most accurate point work would be the most desirable when taking the time to assemble the kits.

Certainly agree with that; with the proviso of the flangeways being capable of accepting current modern wheel standards - NMRA RP25.

H.
I concur: NMRA RP-25 wheels set to S-4.2 required; the track shall comply with S-3.2
Therefore you should also sell the appropriate gauges on your site.

 

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