N gauge coupling options for hands free shunting?

Started by Black Sheep, August 21, 2014, 10:48:18 PM

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Black Sheep

Sorry if this has been asked elsewhere,

I'm looking at my options for couplings on my stock, I don't mind upgrading stock to NEM pockets but I'd like to avoid butchering stock incase I sell on and change stuff about later.

I'm aware of DG couplings but haven't worked out how I can fit them without cutting and gluing, I've also tried the Dapol Easi Shunt ones but couldn't get the delayed action to work reliably.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Black Sheep's workbench, where models go to be made grubby or be taken apart: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57548.0

Milliedale-on-Sea, 1940's seaside splendour, if it ever gets finished! https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35646.0

Family layout project, Billund in L-9 scale :)  https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=59467

MJKERR

Do you want uncoupling in any location on the layout, or specific locations?

Caz

If your layout is unidirectional and trucks don't get turned around by an end to end layout then the likes of B&B, MBM's etc work reliably with delayed action providing you only fit the locking mechanism on one end and the other the plain hook.  I tried them but as my layout is mainly run as an end to end fitting the full mechanism to both ends causes problems.

I did try the Microtrains couplers, they are reliable for delayed uncoupling IF fitted correctly and are free moving but constant supply problems prevented me converting all my stock to use them.

I have now reverted to the Dapol Easishunt and have sited my uncoupling magnets in strategic places so the I don't need delayed uncoupling and all seems to be working very well at the moment.
Caz
layout here
Claywell, High Hackton & Bampney Intro
Hackton info
Bampney info

d-a-n

There are lots of discussions about this subject in this part of the forum:

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?board=138.0

I hope this helps (Being a bit of a Dapol easi-shunt fan-boy convert, I won't wade in here!)

PLD

see http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6670.0 for some useful discussion including a link to my instructions for assembling B&Bs...

Black Sheep

 :thankyousign: to everyone who has replied so far, I'm not a regular contributed on this forum due to a house renovation, an 11 month old, working full time and fixing my motorbike (which is also daily transport)

I have, or will have, two layouts, one is a shunting layout in a coffee table and is the one in which I'm trying the easy shunts by Dapol, the other is still in the planning stage and I don't know if it will be reverse loops at each end or continuous loop.

I'm going to try adding ballast to the wagons with the dapol couplings on and see if that makes a difference, I'll also have a look through the options people have suggested and linked to.
Black Sheep's workbench, where models go to be made grubby or be taken apart: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57548.0

Milliedale-on-Sea, 1940's seaside splendour, if it ever gets finished! https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35646.0

Family layout project, Billund in L-9 scale :)  https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=59467

Black Sheep

I've been continuing to try and get Dapol E-Z-Shunt couplings to work reliably with 1940's 1950's size stock for the past two years and decided, armed with some liquid gravity and a test plank to have another try.

I can have coupling up, I can have un-coupling, but the one thing that I can not get to work is delayed uncoupling, it's as though the couplings simply will not move aside enough, if I manage to get it working then I need a good bump from the loco to get uncoupling to occur.

During this time the coffee table layout has been disassembled as the child has learnt to climb and a glass topped coffee table isn't a great idea, it's being re-built onto a bookshelf.

Still not happy with them, going to have a look through suggestions from earlier in this thread
Black Sheep's workbench, where models go to be made grubby or be taken apart: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57548.0

Milliedale-on-Sea, 1940's seaside splendour, if it ever gets finished! https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35646.0

Family layout project, Billund in L-9 scale :)  https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=59467

Newportnobby

To be honest, I don't think I've read anyone on the forum commenting on consistent delayed uncoupling so you're not on your own :no:

Zunnan

The Dapol knuckles are simply too big to make reliable delayed shunting possible, they're as big as H0 Kadees so need to swing particularly far. Factor in that a good number of NEM pockets have no lateral movement at all other than the entire wagon twisting, or oversprung NEM pockets that won't budge before the wagon does, and generally speaking they're not particularly brilliant. A vast improvement over Rapidos, granted, but still far wide of what should have been possible with them. Tried them, gone back to slowly working through fitting MT 1015 and 1016s to my fleet and have relegated the Dapol knuckles to being temporary fits to couple up to MT fitted stock. The one concession I do now make with fitting MTs is that I mount them at the same height as Dapol knuckles mount at, this saves me having to convert NEM close coupling mechanisms such as is found on coaches. MTs certainly do have their downsides though.

A bit more of a faff? Yes, assembling them can be a chore sometimes.

Just as much butchery needed as to fit Dapol knuckles to non NEM models? You bet! Sometimes considerably more work is needed. But then sometimes all you need to do is pull off the Rapido, drill a 1mm hole and screw on the MT draft gear box.

NEM fitted stock can be a royal pain in the backside to fit MTs to. CCM fitted models are near impossible if you want to retain the mechanism, and because of the lateral movement in the MT they actually pretty much make the CCM useless...sometimes to the point where the mechanism stops bogies from turning smoothly and has caused me one or two derailments as a result.

Just like the Dapol knuckles, they aren't brilliant at coupling/uncoupling on curved track either.

But at least every single wagon and loco that I convert has a knuckle coupler that is lightly sprung laterally so the wagons don't twist on the uncoupler, doesn't rise vertically (because there is no NEM profile on the coupler shanks with the compromise to shape needed for Rapidos to move as needed) and are almost half the size of the Dapol knuckle so are a bit more discreet. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the Dapol couplers; I use them and will continue to where needed. I just prefer the MT couplers which have been around for a long time and are very well developed. Granted a good many people will baulk at the work needed to fit them sometimes, in which case other options are probably better to explore.

When you have a working knuckle (or any other magnetic uncoupling), you also want to make sure you remove as much ferrous material from the wagon as possible. The axles on Dapol are plastic and the newer Farish releases don't seem particularly attracted to magnets, but the weights within them certainly are! Self adhesive lead strip meant for windows is a good substitute, being both thin enough to get into the original space allocated for the metal strip, heavier and non ferrous. A 1.5mm thick 10m roll goes for miles! I've found from experience that Deluxe Materials 'Liquid Lead' is just as attracted to uncoupling magnets as the original steel weight so is best avoided...
Like a Phoenix from the ashes...morelike a rotten old Dog Bone


Cooper

Quote from: Zunnan on January 29, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
I've found from experience that Deluxe Materials 'Liquid Lead' is just as attracted to uncoupling magnets as the original steel weight so is best avoided...

Probably because IIRC it's steel and not lead! Thank you for your interesting post, lots of good points in there. I use dapol easi-shunts and have never got the delayed shunting feature to work. The no lateral movement on certain wagons can be a factor in reliable uncoupling too. Time spent tweaking and setting up the tail height and position helps, but doesn't cure every wagon.

Karhedron

I had some issues initially with the delayed uncoupling but I maanged to get it work by adjusting the coupling pins (i am also using rare earth magnets). Here is a link to my experimentation.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48728-dapol-easi-shunt-magnetic-couplings-in-n/?p=569182

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/48728-dapol-easi-shunt-magnetic-couplings-in-n/?p=570075
Quote from: ScottyStitch on September 29, 2015, 11:28:46 AM
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Black Sheep

Quote from: Karhedron on January 30, 2015, 09:05:41 AM
I had some issues initially with the delayed uncoupling but I maanged to get it work by adjusting the coupling pins (i am also using rare earth magnets). Here is a link to my experimentation.


Thanks Karhedron,

Where did you get the magnets you use from, they look as though they could be the answer in key points around the layout.
Black Sheep's workbench, where models go to be made grubby or be taken apart: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57548.0

Milliedale-on-Sea, 1940's seaside splendour, if it ever gets finished! https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35646.0

Family layout project, Billund in L-9 scale :)  https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=59467

Karhedron

I think I bought them in bulk on eBay. From memory they are 3mm diameter and 2mm thick.
Quote from: ScottyStitch on September 29, 2015, 11:28:46 AM
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Black Sheep

Got some magnets on order to have another go with the dapol couplings going to ignore delayed shunting and  will report back.
Black Sheep's workbench, where models go to be made grubby or be taken apart: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=57548.0

Milliedale-on-Sea, 1940's seaside splendour, if it ever gets finished! https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35646.0

Family layout project, Billund in L-9 scale :)  https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=59467

JimF

Should have posted this last week, but got side tracked. Black Sheep, a couple of thoughts if you do decide to give MY couplers another go.

I used body mounted MT couplers for years for my US N scale rolling stock. I bought then in kit form, much less expensive, and assembled them in batches. I strongly suggest getting the assembly fixture out out by Micro Trains, it works the charm.

When each coupler was assembled, I would touch 2 corners ever so lightly with a fine tipped soldering iron, sealing the edges together. This avoids glue, or relying on them to stay just snapped together.

I have seen a couple of comments in threads, from folks who have tried them, and found cars flying off the track during shunting. It is usually because the freight cars (wagons) are too light. They have a tendency to bounce back and forth, causing the open couplers to close again, and the closed couplers bumping each other, pushing the wagons to one side. MT sells small springs to correct this. A single spring is placed on the needle point of one axle, before being placed in the journal box. This creates a very tiny bit of drag, but eliminates the bounce.

There was discussion years ago on either the yahoo N scale egroup or a forum, about how much the springs would effect train length. Several modelers did tests on their layouts, and the general result was that a 25 car train without springs would lose 2 or 3 cars at most. So the drag is negligible,  INHO.

Jim F

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